From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 2 14:08:50 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049265561:20:28045:64".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:08:50 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049265561:20:28045:64; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 06:39:21 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2028241; 2 Apr 2003 6:38 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 190bso-0007Fc-00; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 07:38:02 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h326arR08998 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:36:53 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.80]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h326apW08995 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:36:52 +0100 Received: from worthy.demon.co.uk ([62.49.21.99] helo=worthy) by anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 190brf-0000uO-0d for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 07:36:51 +0100 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 07:36:05 +0100 From: Tim Howarth To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP Windows version only runs for Admininstrators Message-ID: <6c4db5dc4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> References: <7395b6db4b.jms@ntlworld.com> <4bdbf71768steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.61 (MsgServe/2.02) (RISC-OS/4.29) POPstar/2.03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist In message David Pilling wrote: > HKey_Local_Machine\Software\DavidPilling\OvationPro > > using RegEdit. > > 'full control' rights. For Info: With Windows older than XP it needs Regedt32 to set permissions on reg keys. (IIRC with XP running Regedit actually launches RegEdt32.) -- ___ |im ---- ARM Powered ---- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 2 14:08:52 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049272240:20:25478:359".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:08:52 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049272240:20:25478:359; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:30:40 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2009497; 2 Apr 2003 8:26 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 190dYc-000726-00; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:25:18 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h328Neu28704 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:23:40 +0100 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h328Ncg28695 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:23:39 +0100 Received: from Rpc ([80.7.2.123]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20030402082337.LPZR310.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@Rpc> for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:23:37 +0100 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:23:18 +0100 From: John Sandford To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP Windows version only runs for Admininstrators Message-ID: <5f1ebfdc4b.jms@ntlworld.com> References: <7395b6db4b.jms@ntlworld.com> <4bdbf71768steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.61 (MsgServe/2.02) (RISC-OS/4.33) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist In message David Pilling wrote: > >The file name,directory name or volume syntax is incorrect. > >(fileFirstFile)(123) > >(\*.*) > > > > You all keep miss quoting that error which makes me nervous. What is > going on is that OP can't find the registry value. > > HKey_Local_Machine\Software\DavidPilling\OvationPro\Applets I double checked this and although the registry key is.. the error reported is (\*.*) > Seems kind of obvious the program is installed by user A, it is then > only visible for user A. If you log on as user B you see a different set > of registry values... here (WIN2000 pro) if user A installs any other user with administrator rights can use the program but no other user of lesser rights can. > (but for this key? I may have second thoughts). changing the permissions on the registry key to allow powerusers and users full control lets any user run the program now. > There is no intention of a limitation on the current version. This is an > interesting point though, could well be that the current situation is > not desirable. > most programs I have installed here are accessible to all users and each has its own local user settings some require a look at the original install CD when first run by a different user most don't. -- John Sandford West Herts UK Hemel Hempstead Risc OS User Group www.hhrug.org.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 2 17:39:30 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049301540:10:11777:64".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 17:39:30 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049301540:10:11777:64; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:39:00 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id af1011403; 2 Apr 2003 16:38 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 190lBV-0004BX-00; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 17:33:57 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h32GWop14995 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 17:32:50 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h32GWos14990 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 17:32:50 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 190lAP-000FCG-0U for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 17:32:50 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 17:31:10 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP Windows version only runs for Admininstrators References: <7395b6db4b.jms@ntlworld.com> <4bdbf71768steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> <5f1ebfdc4b.jms@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <5f1ebfdc4b.jms@ntlworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist >most programs I have installed here are accessible to all users and each >has its own local user settings some require a look at the original >install CD when first run by a different user most don't. Anyway, it was a bug, a mistake on my part, and I'm happy to have been able to fix it. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 2 23:19:46 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049321818:20:01286:58".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:19:46 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049321818:20:01286:58; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 22:16:58 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2102282; 2 Apr 2003 22:16 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 190qWa-00077H-00; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 23:16:04 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h32MFFZ27043 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:15:15 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h32MFBQ26996 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:15:11 +0100 Received: from [81.131.176.111] (helo=btopenworld.com) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 190qVh-0002HG-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 23:15:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Owl-Art Un-Ltd." To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 23:11:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Message-ID: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/2.03e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist In article , David Pilling wrote: > Font's are an issue. Some people have conversions of all the standard > Acorn fonts to Windows. That makes using Acorn documents on Windows > very easy. Does anyone here have the PC versions of Trinity, Homerton & Corpus? I know they're effectively Times, Arial & Courier, but they're not exact matches. Personally, I prefer the Acorn variants :-) I've downloaded the PC version of OvnPro and it renders my latest 23Mb file okay, but without the PC versions of the Acorn fonts, I'd have to go through it and change all the font information :-( Andrew -- http://www.owlart.co.uk/ +----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | Owl-Art Un-Ltd. Design and Print Work | email: Sales@owlart.co.uk | | Coming to you on an Acorn RiscPC SA110 | Snail: 58 Newland Road, | | | Worthing, | | Business Cards, Invites, Newsletters, | West Sussex. | | Booklets, Programmes, Original Artwork | BN11 1JX. U.K. | +----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 3 00:29:48 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049325915:10:18822:41".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:29:48 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049325915:10:18822:41; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 23:25:15 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1017073; 2 Apr 2003 23:24 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 190rZj-00043O-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 00:23:23 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h32NMNg04849 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:22:23 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h32NMNk04846 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:22:23 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 190rYj-000JNB-0U for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 00:22:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 00:22:29 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Message-ID: <4bdd1170f5john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03g (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist On 02 Apr, Owl-Art Un-Ltd. wrote: > In article , > David Pilling wrote: > > Font's are an issue. Some people have conversions of all the standard > > Acorn fonts to Windows. That makes using Acorn documents on Windows > > very easy. > Does anyone here have the PC versions of Trinity, Homerton & Corpus? I > know they're effectively Times, Arial & Courier, but they're not exact > matches. Personally, I prefer the Acorn variants :-) I've downloaded the > PC version of OvnPro and it renders my latest 23Mb file okay, but without > the PC versions of the Acorn fonts, I'd have to go through it and change > all the font information :-( Homerton isn't Arial; it's Helvetica. Arial is a poor (mis)copy. -- John Cartmell john@cartmell.demon.co.uk FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 Acorn Publisher magazine & http://www.acornpublisher.com Fleur Designs (boardgames) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 3 01:59:54 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049331376:20:29334:48".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:59:54 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049331376:20:29334:48; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 00:56:16 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2029734; 3 Apr 2003 0:56 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 190t0f-0007Nt-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 01:55:17 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h330sOP19891 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:54:24 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h330sMw19884 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:54:23 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 190szl-000A4k-0V for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 01:54:21 +0100 Message-ID: <9J73DpD6X4i+Ew2S@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:53:14 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist >Does anyone here have the PC versions of Trinity, Homerton & Corpus? I >know they're effectively Times, Arial & Courier, but they're not exact >matches. Personally, I prefer the Acorn variants :-) I've downloaded the >PC version of OvnPro and it renders my latest 23Mb file okay, but without >the PC versions of the Acorn fonts, I'd have to go through it and change >all the font information :-( Before the end of the day I will implement some a font mapping system, so your doc can have Homerton in it, but use Arial (or whatever) on Windows. I would have liked to supply True Type versions of the Homerton etc. fonts but as far as I can see the licensing costs/complexity are too great. I've mentioned this subject before and said that as of now the probability is that OPW will be supplied with TT versions of the Beebug fonts and no others. As to Arial, the metric is the same as Homerton, the character shapes are slightly different. This means that you'll get the same amount of Arial into areas as you will Homerton. As John Cartmell has just said Helvetica is what Homerton is supposed to be. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 3 13:26:11 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049371767:20:24585:813".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:26:11 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049371767:20:24585:813; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 12:09:27 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ap2116512; 3 Apr 2003 11:38 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1912yz-0003nw-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 12:34:13 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h33BXAq26843 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:33:10 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.internl.net (altrade.nijmegen.internl.net [217.149.192.18]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h33BX9426822 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:33:09 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.internl.net via 1Cust104.tnt33.rtm1.nld.da.uu.net [213.116.160.104] with SMTP for id h33BTSvK018817 (8.12.8/2.04); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:29:29 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:33:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist On Thursday, April 03, 2003 12:11 AM, Owl-Art Un-Ltd. wrote: > In article , > David Pilling wrote: >> Font's are an issue. Some people have conversions of all the standard >> Acorn fonts to Windows. That makes using Acorn documents on Windows >> very easy. > > Does anyone here have the PC versions of Trinity, Homerton & Corpus? I > know they're effectively Times, Arial & Courier, but they're not exact > matches. Personally, I prefer the Acorn variants :-) I've downloaded > the PC version of OvnPro and it renders my latest 23Mb file okay, but > without the PC versions of the Acorn fonts, I'd have to go through it > and change all the font information :-( > Having conversions of all the standard Acorn fonts (and CC and Beebug) doesn't mean that they can be made publicly available. Maybe it isn't even legal to make and use such conversions on a personal or private base. Anyway I have made such conversions out of interest (can it be done and how and which characters to implement: Encodings ... Unicode). I restricted myself to *all* Latin_1 Encodings in Unicode TrueType, except for the non-Latin1 fonts Selwyn and Sidney. And Type1 fonts (that can't be used in OP), restricted to 256 chars. They work well in OP, when I import a RISC OS doc in Windows OP. Also in print and in pdf (with and without mapping), as long as the pdf is rendered in Windows. However, I can't make them available. Not even when I want that: I don't have any right to do that. Not even the use of the names, I guess. As a private person I don't want to get involved in licensing etc. issues. -- Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 3 14:05:50 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049374995:20:00315:2007".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:05:50 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049374995:20:00315:2007; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 13:03:15 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id av2004974; 3 Apr 2003 12:34 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1913pK-0005BM-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 13:28:18 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h33CRuf17936 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:27:56 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h33CRtr17930 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:27:56 +0100 Received: from worthy.demon.co.uk ([62.49.21.99] helo=worthy) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 1913ox-0002Dn-0Z for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 13:27:55 +0100 Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 13:27:49 +0100 From: Tim Howarth To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Message-ID: <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> In-Reply-To: <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.61 (MsgServe/2.02) (RISC-OS/4.29) POPstar/2.03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist In message <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> "Tonnie Demarteau" wrote: > On Thursday, April 03, 2003 12:11 AM, > Owl-Art Un-Ltd. wrote: > However, I can't make them available. Not even when I want that: I don't > have any right to do that. Not even the use of the names, I guess. Is the process automated ? If so can a cenverter be supplied, the legality then lying with the user - who obviously needs RISC OS versions to start from. -- ___ |im ---- ARM Powered ---- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 3 14:25:53 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049376242:20:14586:1311".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:25:53 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049376242:20:14586:1311; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 13:24:02 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id am2112671; 3 Apr 2003 13:19 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1914MJ-0002IF-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:02:23 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h33D1Bo30661 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:01:11 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.internl.net (altrade.nijmegen.internl.net [217.149.192.18]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h33D18D30652 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:01:09 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.internl.net via 1Cust134.tnt30.rtm1.nld.da.uu.net [213.116.154.134] with SMTP for id h33CvRvK029393 (8.12.8/2.04); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:57:28 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 15:02:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist On Thursday, April 03, 2003 2:27 PM, Tim Howarth wrote: > In message <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> > "Tonnie Demarteau" wrote: > >> On Thursday, April 03, 2003 12:11 AM, >> Owl-Art Un-Ltd. wrote: > > > >> However, I can't make them available. Not even when I want that: I >> don't have any right to do that. Not even the use of the names, I >> guess. > > Is the process automated ? No. I also can hardly imagine it can be done automated. Based on all the editing (not shapes or measurements !) needed to be done in several font editors in RISC OS and Windows. However, I am not a programmer. > If so can a cenverter be supplied, the legality then lying with the > user - who obviously needs RISC OS versions to start from. No convertor that can be supplied, exist. As far as I know. -- Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 3 16:36:15 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049383193:20:19706:3334".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 16:36:15 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049383193:20:19706:3334; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 15:19:53 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2003978; 3 Apr 2003 14:03 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1915Eo-0001fG-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:58:42 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h33DwDH20232 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:58:13 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h33DwBT20211 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:58:11 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 1915EJ-0001PZ-0Z for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:58:11 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:56:53 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> In-Reply-To: <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist >> >> >> Of course the irritating thing is that for some people the font licence has been trivial (probably thinking of Virtual Acorn here), yet on the other hand, who does one talk to? Pace Castle The executors of Acorn PLC ROSL The company in Cambridge who originally produced the fonts? Or does the sort of licence we had for distributing the RISC OS versions cover TT conversions? -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 3 19:36:03 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049394530:20:27609:2214".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 19:36:03 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049394530:20:27609:2214; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 18:28:50 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac2100088; 3 Apr 2003 18:05 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1918m0-0003Xw-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 18:45:12 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h33HheC07860 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:43:40 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.80]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h33Hhdj07843 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:43:39 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 1918kU-0007Th-0d for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 18:43:38 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:42:27 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist >>> Another point is to what extent Homerton is a real font outside of RISC OS. Print to a PS printer under RISC OS and you get Helvetica. So once OPW can silently map Homerton to MS Sans Serif on screen and Helvetica on the printer is anyone going to be bothered. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 3 20:16:06 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049397065:10:29963:70".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:16:06 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049397065:10:29963:70; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:11:05 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1127684; 3 Apr 2003 19:10 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191A0T-0007Ak-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 20:04:13 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h33J3Ux26541 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:03:30 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h33J3TW26535 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:03:29 +0100 Received: from worthy.demon.co.uk ([62.49.21.99] helo=worthy) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 1919zk-0000P7-0Z for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 20:03:28 +0100 Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 20:03:22 +0100 From: Tim Howarth To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Message-ID: References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.61 (MsgServe/2.02) (RISC-OS/4.29) POPstar/2.03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist In message David Pilling wrote: > >>> > > Another point is to what extent Homerton is a real font outside of RISC > OS. Print to a PS printer under RISC OS and you get Helvetica. So once > OPW can silently map Homerton to MS Sans Serif on screen and Helvetica > on the printer is anyone going to be bothered. I suppose a system whereby OPFW uses a rule to decide which font to use - 2 basic cases either the same name font exists in Windows as RISC OS or a mapping exists. For most cases simply mapping, Corpus-Courier Trinity-Times Homerton-Helvetica (if exists) or Arial (isn't that closer than MS Sans Serif ?) would suffice. I am right in thinking ATM that all fonts get mapped to Arial ? (I thought one of the earlier versions did Trinity-Times but don't see this now.) -- ___ |im ---- ARM Powered ---- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 3 20:36:06 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049398122:10:08696:59".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:36:06 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049398122:10:08696:59; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:28:42 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1006442; 3 Apr 2003 19:27 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191ALo-0003Fu-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 20:26:16 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h33JPve32009 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:25:57 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.internl.net (altrade.nijmegen.internl.net [217.149.192.18]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h33JPuT32005 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:25:56 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.internl.net via 1Cust6.tnt15.rtm1.nld.da.uu.net [213.116.124.6] with SMTP for id h33JMGvK000934 (8.12.8/2.04); Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:22:16 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:26:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist On Thursday, April 03, 2003 7:42 PM, David Pilling wrote: >>>> > > Another point is to what extent Homerton is a real font outside of > RISC OS. Print to a PS printer under RISC OS and you get Helvetica. > So once OPW can silently map Homerton to MS Sans Serif on screen and > Helvetica on the printer is anyone going to be bothered. > This only is or can be (made) valid for PostScript printing. This concept of mapping can also be applied to the other main Acorn fonts, Beebug and CC fonts inclusive. In RISC OS and in Windows. Mapping to a PostScript font in PostScript printing is more than mapping a name and Encoding. Mapping from RISC OS to a font on another platform (TrueType and/or Type1) is only mapping of the font name. Big difference or question is how reliable editing can be done in OPW with a font, that isn't the same as the original, used in RISC OS. -- Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 3 20:36:06 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049398436:20:02686:425".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:36:06 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049398436:20:02686:425; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:33:56 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2012283; 3 Apr 2003 19:33 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191AQv-0004On-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 20:31:33 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h33JVEA00805 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:31:14 +0100 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h33JVEQ00802 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:31:14 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([80.5.93.221]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20030403193113.OEMB2033.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:31:13 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c2fa17$a18d9ec0$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> From: "Jeff Wallis" To: "Ovation Pro" Subject: [softwarelist] Colour separation of Artworks files in OP Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:31:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist I am importing an AW file into OP. The AW file (CMYK colours) contains an object which is set to overprint a coloured rectangle beneath it. The file separates correctly in AW, it also separates correctly when exported to Impression Publisher but in OP the overprint attribute is ignored. Is there a solution to this or is it a limitation of OP ? Jeff Wallis -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 3 20:46:09 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049398703:10:29846:40".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:46:09 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049398703:10:29846:40; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:38:23 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106014; 3 Apr 2003 19:38 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191AWZ-0005OU-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 20:37:23 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h33Jb2N02045 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:37:02 +0100 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h33Jb1f02042 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:37:01 +0100 Received: from Rpc ([80.7.2.123]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20030403193657.ODTP6166.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@Rpc> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:36:57 +0100 Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 20:36:45 +0100 From: John Sandford To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Message-ID: <269c80dd4b.jms@ntlworld.com> References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> In-Reply-To: <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.61 (MsgServe/2.02) (RISC-OS/4.33) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist In message <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> "Tonnie Demarteau" wrote: [snip] > Big difference or question is how reliable editing can be done in OPW with a > font, that isn't the same as the original, used in RISC OS. > > -- > Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands If Techwriter is anything to go by it gets close, but will change the layout of the document, mostly by only a few lines per page. -- John Sandford West Herts UK Hemel Hempstead Risc OS User Group www.hhrug.org.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 3 22:06:11 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049403436:20:14837:69".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:06:11 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049403436:20:14837:69; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 20:57:16 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2015341; 3 Apr 2003 20:56 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191Bki-0004Gk-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 21:56:04 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h33KtLX19543 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:55:21 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h33KtLI19535 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:55:21 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191Bk0-0001xo-0V for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 21:55:20 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:54:05 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> In-Reply-To: <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist >Big difference or question is how reliable editing can be done in OPW with a >font, that isn't the same as the original, used in RISC OS. That was my point, Homerton, Helvetica and Arial all have the same metric so you'll get exactly the same amount of any one of them to a given space. In other words the widths of characters in these fonts are identical, the shapes may be slightly different. Most serious users of DTP on RISC OS will have used Homerton on screen and then printed Helvetica on their printer. And of course Beebug's SwissB also has the same metric as the above. As John Wallace told me in 1989 when he constructed it, it would be no use if it didn't. Perhaps what is needed to be going on with is something that makes a copy of Arial (or whatever) called Homerton etc. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 00:46:17 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049413439:10:06932:71".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:46:17 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049413439:10:06932:71; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 23:43:59 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1121540; 3 Apr 2003 23:43 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191EMA-0008Ot-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 00:42:54 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h33Nfkx17043 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:41:46 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h33Nfj217037 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:41:46 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 191EL2-00051i-0Z for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 00:41:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 23:47:01 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Message-ID: <4bdd92077ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03g (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist On 03 Apr, David Pilling wrote: > Perhaps what is needed to be going on with is something that makes a > copy of Arial (or whatever) called Homerton etc. I'm not sure what's being suggested here but, even though fonts may have the same metrics (& in all conditions?), it would be wrong to give the 'wrong' name where fonts had different shapes. Arial *isn't* Helvetica or Homerton and shouldn't be so labelled (nor vice versa). Although misleading the same stricture doesn't apply to Helvetica and Homerton which have the same metrics and design. All as far as I understand and open to challenge (and ignoring all considerations of copyright!). -- John Cartmell john@cartmell.demon.co.uk FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 Acorn Publisher magazine & http://www.acornpublisher.com Fleur Designs (boardgames) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 01:36:24 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049416340:20:24614:63".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:36:24 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049416340:20:24614:63; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 00:32:20 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2101483; 4 Apr 2003 0:31 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191F6o-0008J1-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 01:31:06 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h340UeQ22462 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:30:40 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h340Uen22459 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:30:40 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191F6N-0009xe-0W for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 01:30:40 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:29:17 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> <4bdd92077ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4bdd92077ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist >All as far as I understand and open to challenge (and ignoring all >considerations of copyright!). OK, "to make a copy of Helvetica called 'Homerton'". You document will then load, and what you end up with on your printer will be exactly what you would have got on RISC OS. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 14:00:04 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049457256:10:12398:120".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:00:04 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049457256:10:12398:120; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:54:16 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ac1013157; 4 Apr 2003 11:54 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191PST-00009r-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 12:34:09 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34BXAW07194 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:33:10 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.internl.net (altrade.nijmegen.internl.net [217.149.192.18]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34BX9P07181 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:33:09 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.internl.net via 1Cust53.tnt41.rtm1.nld.da.uu.net [213.117.0.53] with SMTP for id h34BTSvK022760 (8.12.8/2.04); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:29:29 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <005201c2fa9e$55f101f0$350075d5@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: "Ovation Pro" References: <8fd9c3dd4b%ovation@goatly.co.uk> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:21:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist On Friday, April 04, 2003 9:51 AM, Bruce Goatly wrote: > In message > David Pilling wrote: > >> That was my point, Homerton, Helvetica and Arial all have the same >> metric so you'll get exactly the same amount of any one of them to a >> given space. >> >> In other words the widths of characters in these fonts are identical, >> the shapes may be slightly different. >> >> Most serious users of DTP on RISC OS will have used Homerton on >> screen and then printed Helvetica on their printer. >> >> And of course Beebug's SwissB also has the same metric as the above. >> As John Wallace told me in 1989 when he constructed it, it would be >> no use if it didn't. > > The same is true of Pembroke on the Acorn and the Adobe PostScript > version of Palatino - I used the PostScript metrics in building > Pembroke. Yes, this was the idea/view behind: SwissB of Beebug and Homerton of Acorn --- Helvetica Trinity of Acorn --- Times Corpus of Acorn and Curator of Beebug --- Courier Sidney of Acorn and SymbolB of Beebug --- Symbol Selwyn has a very different order of the glyphs as ITC Zapf Dingbats. Pembroke of CC and Paladin of Beebug --- Palatino BookM of CC and Bookmark of Beebug --- Bookman AvantG of CC and Vogue of Beebug --- AvantGarde NewHall of Acorn --- New Century Schoolbook Chaucer of Beebug --- ITC Zapf Chancery Sidney of Acorn and SymbolB of Beebug --- Symbol I don't know an Acorn equivalent for Helvetica Narrow. I wonder how many people have edited their default mapping in RISC OS to these entries. And any user can only do that for her own system. Be it RISC OS, be it Windows. It also makes a difference for what purpose the print-out is made. Only the first 14 are safe or supported for making a pdf. Since I couldn't decided, where to snip, I haven't done this ... As outlined above: mapping to PostScript fonts is a *second* mapping, only useful in a very limited environment, where the creator of the document has full control on both platforms and on printing. The printing has to be PostScript printing. The creator also has to take that control: wrong or forgotten PostScript mappings result in embedded Type3 in RISC OS and embedded TrueTypes in Windows. Besides that: a PostScript font name isn't the same as a TrueType font name ... not all Windows versions come with the same set of the same default TrueType fonts ... Surely all this PostScript stuff is of no use at all for not-PostScript printing or for PostScript-printing-without-mapping, where the actually used TrueTypes also are used in print. Importing, exporting, exchange between platforms demands a different, *first* fontmapping: RISC OS <> TrueType. So, in my opinion, the question is for cases where the metrics can be assumed to be the same, whether ONE fixed font map RISC OS<> TrueType will do. It will for do people, who don't care (or don't have to care for they can correct the PS print-out) or don't want to care about the typeface in use as long as the font is always available. With a preference for Windows or RISC OS 'default'. A fixed mapping will be OK, when it is 1) additional and 2) available, when a true equivalent in shapes isn't available. However, I think, a serious user needs to have a choice between building/editing his own maps or to use a fixed default. As far as Homerton/SwissB/Helvetica is concerned, many people have other choices than Arial. Other, for I think the discussion isn't about poor...best design or use of typefaces. Many software packages come with TrueType Helvetica equivalents, mainly found with names derived from 'Swiss' or 'Geneva'. -- Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 14:00:09 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049443012:20:24197:80".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:00:09 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049443012:20:24197:80; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 07:56:52 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2103348; 4 Apr 2003 7:56 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191M2l-0002gl-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 08:55:23 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h347sVt13711 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:54:31 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow057o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.94]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h347sUY13704 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:54:30 +0100 Received: from RPC ([213.48.249.208]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:54:28 +0100 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 08:51:11 +0100 From: Bruce Goatly To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Message-ID: <8fd9c3dd4b%ovation@goatly.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: Perfect Page X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.61b User-Agent: POPstar/2.05 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist In message David Pilling wrote: > That was my point, Homerton, Helvetica and Arial all have the same > metric so you'll get exactly the same amount of any one of them to a > given space. > > In other words the widths of characters in these fonts are identical, > the shapes may be slightly different. > > Most serious users of DTP on RISC OS will have used Homerton on screen > and then printed Helvetica on their printer. > > And of course Beebug's SwissB also has the same metric as the above. As > John Wallace told me in 1989 when he constructed it, it would be no use > if it didn't. The same is true of Pembroke on the Acorn and the Adobe PostScript version of Palatino - I used the PostScript metrics in building Pembroke. Bruce -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 14:00:11 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049458113:20:23213:1642".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:00:11 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049458113:20:23213:1642; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 12:08:33 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac2102081; 4 Apr 2003 11:38 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191PST-00009q-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 12:34:09 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34BXB507204 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:33:11 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.internl.net (altrade.nijmegen.internl.net [217.149.192.18]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34BXAQ07200 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:33:11 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.internl.net via 1Cust53.tnt41.rtm1.nld.da.uu.net [213.117.0.53] with SMTP for id h34BTSvM022760 (8.12.8/2.04); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:29:30 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <005301c2fa9e$56d854b0$350075d5@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: "Ovation Pro" References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> <4bdd92077ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:33:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist On Friday, April 04, 2003 2:29 AM, David Pilling wrote: > Perhaps what is needed to be going on with is something that makes a > copy of Arial (or whatever) called Homerton etc. John Cartmell wrote: >> All as far as I understand and open to challenge (and ignoring all >> considerations of copyright!). David Pilling wrote: > OK, "to make a copy of Helvetica called 'Homerton'". You document will > then load, and what you end up with on your printer will be exactly > what you would have got on RISC OS. Renaming a font isn't only a matter of renaming the name, that you see in the filer. As can be done with a text file. This isn't the case in RISC OS, it isn't the case in Windows. Maybe you are thinking about using an alias? I wonder, isn't that also a kind of 'font mapping' ? Also theoretically speaking and ignoring all considerations of copyright! BTW: when an OP doc can be exported/imported as DDL (without damaging the content), the fontmappings can be done in the DDL. I am sure about the styles. Not about the effects. Also not about fonts used in DrawFiles. -- Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 14:20:02 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049462136:10:21969:51".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:20:02 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049462136:10:21969:51; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:15:36 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1022037; 4 Apr 2003 13:15 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191R1P-0005Fe-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:14:19 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34DDrV03602 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:13:53 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34DDqh03595 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:13:52 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191R0y-000Meb-0W for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:13:52 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:12:42 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> <4bdd92077ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <005301c2fa9e$56d854b0$350075d5@padua> In-Reply-To: <005301c2fa9e$56d854b0$350075d5@padua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist >Renaming a font isn't only a matter of renaming the name, that you see in >the filer. As can be done with a text file. >This isn't the case in RISC OS, it isn't the case in Windows. I know how to do this on RISC OS, you use FontEdit, load the font, change the name in the font file. I don't know how one does this trick for Windows TT fonts - perhaps there is a system tool or freeware utility? >Maybe you are thinking about using an alias? That can be done on RISC OS - although ISTR the slightest error crashes the system. Again I don't know about Windows? >Also theoretically speaking and ignoring all considerations of copyright! Fair use... >BTW: when an OP doc can be exported/imported as DDL (without damaging the >content), the fontmappings can be done in the DDL. I am sure about the >styles. Not about the effects. Also not about fonts used in DrawFiles. Yes a way of mapping fonts, but it wouldn't work in Draw files. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 14:20:03 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049462290:10:26000:83".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:20:03 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049462290:10:26000:83; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:18:10 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1026174; 4 Apr 2003 13:17 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191Qzn-00051N-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:12:39 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34DCB303088 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:12:11 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.80]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34DCB603083 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:12:11 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 191QzJ-0002XL-0d for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:12:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:10:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Message-ID: <4bdde10e4fjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <005301c2fa9e$56d854b0$350075d5@padua> References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> <4bdd92077ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <005301c2fa9e$56d854b0$350075d5@padua> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03g (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist On 04 Apr, Tonnie Demarteau wrote: > On Friday, April 04, 2003 2:29 AM, David Pilling > wrote: > > Perhaps what is needed to be going on with is something that makes a > > copy of Arial (or whatever) called Homerton etc. > John Cartmell wrote: > >> All as far as I understand and open to challenge (and ignoring all > >> considerations of copyright!). > David Pilling wrote: > > OK, "to make a copy of Helvetica called 'Homerton'". You document will > > then load, and what you end up with on your printer will be exactly > > what you would have got on RISC OS. > Renaming a font isn't only a matter of renaming the name, that you see > in the filer. As can be done with a text file. > This isn't the case in RISC OS, it isn't the case in Windows. With RISC OS I'd presume anyone would use !FontNamer or equivalent. I plead ignorance wrt Microsoft fonts. BTW renaming fonts is not for the unwary. It may be easy to do with a program like FontNamer but it's very easy to confuse yourself in subsequent use! -- John Cartmell john@cartmell.demon.co.uk FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 Acorn Publisher magazine & http://www.acornpublisher.com Fleur Designs (boardgames) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 15:29:55 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049465738:20:00540:2942".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:29:55 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049465738:20:00540:2942; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:15:38 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ad2118119; 4 Apr 2003 13:56 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191Rew-0000hB-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:55:10 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34DshP15214 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:54:43 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.185]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34DsgT15208 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:54:42 +0100 Received: from [212.227.126.205] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191ReT-0007qk-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:54:41 +0200 Received: from [172.177.29.205] (helo=goedel) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191ReS-0006J4-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:54:41 +0200 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:54:54 +0200 From: Martin Wuerthner To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Colour separation of Artworks files in OP Message-ID: <0626e5dd4b.martin@mw-software.com> References: <001101c2fa17$a18d9ec0$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <001101c2fa17$a18d9ec0$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.61 (MsgServe/2.02) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist In message <001101c2fa17$a18d9ec0$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> "Jeff Wallis" wrote: > I am importing an AW file into OP. The AW file (CMYK colours) contains an > object which is set to overprint a coloured rectangle beneath it. The file > separates correctly in AW, it also separates correctly when exported to > Impression Publisher but in OP the overprint attribute is ignored. > > Is there a solution to this or is it a limitation of OP ? Yes, this is a limitation in OP - although I do not quite understand why it is there. Colour separation and overprinting are handled in the client application, so AWRender cannot do anything about it. It is up to OP to decide how to do it. If you draw a Cyan rectangle with two red rectangles on top of it, one overprinting the other one not overprinting, then the latter knocks out the Cyan, while the formed does not. This works fine when you draw the objects in OP. If you import the same in an ArtWorks file, then both rectangles knock out the Cyan when displayed in OP. So, yes, this is a limitation in OP. I mentioned it to David some time ago. At that time, David replied with some problem he saw, which I did not think was a problem at all, but I then did not pursue the matter further. In my opinion, it would be very simple to do this correctly in OP - at least if one wanted to implement the interpretation of overprinting as Impression and ArtWorks do it (and this is probably the best thing to do when rendering an ArtWorks file - after all the file was designed with a specific way of overprinting in mind). Input: colour, plate this_component = separate(colour,plate); -- pick the component we want IF this_component > 0 THEN Render ELSE -- zero component, so only render if not overprinting IF colour.overprint THEN Do not render -- do not knock out ELSE Render -- knock out ENDIF ENDIF By the way, this even applies to spot colour plates: Obviously, any process colour separates to a zero component on a spot colour plate. If overprinting is set, it is not rendered in this case, so it does not knock out anything on the spot plate. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 15:29:55 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049466532:20:13907:1518".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:29:55 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049466532:20:13907:1518; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:28:52 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac2016573; 4 Apr 2003 13:34 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191RHf-0000Ai-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:31:07 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34DUkJ08613 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:30:46 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34DUki08608 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:30:46 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 191RHJ-0002lQ-0Z for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:30:45 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:29:26 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Colour separation of Artworks files in OP References: <001101c2fa17$a18d9ec0$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <001101c2fa17$a18d9ec0$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist >I am importing an AW file into OP. The AW file (CMYK colours) contains an >object which is set to overprint a coloured rectangle beneath it. The file >separates correctly in AW, it also separates correctly when exported to >Impression Publisher but in OP the overprint attribute is ignored. >Is there a solution to this or is it a limitation of OP ? I would have expected this to work... Why might it not - Have you got the latest version of OP and the AW applet, much messing about has gone on with the subtle bits of AW rendering. Colour has the same name as a colour in OP and you've got the use colours button ticked in the Process window. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 15:39:58 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049467026:10:26322:102".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:39:58 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049467026:10:26322:102; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:37:06 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1110301; 4 Apr 2003 14:36 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191QnK-0002qI-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:59:46 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34Cwsj31628 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:58:54 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34Cwr331621 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:58:53 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 191QmS-000J7J-0W for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:58:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:25:39 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Message-ID: <4bddd1fdbbjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> <4bdd92077ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03g (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist On 04 Apr, David Pilling wrote: > >All as far as I understand and open to challenge (and ignoring all > >considerations of copyright!). > OK, "to make a copy of Helvetica called 'Homerton'". You document will > then load, and what you end up with on your printer will be exactly what > you would have got on RISC OS. Of course! ;-) -- John Cartmell john@cartmell.demon.co.uk FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 Acorn Publisher magazine & http://www.acornpublisher.com Fleur Designs (boardgames) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 16:29:54 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049469692:10:18126:44".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:29:54 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049469692:10:18126:44; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:21:32 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ac1015826; 4 Apr 2003 15:20 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191Snx-0003CI-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:08:33 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34F7dl03858 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:07:39 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.internl.net (altrade.nijmegen.internl.net [217.149.192.18]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34F7c803853 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:07:38 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.internl.net via 1Cust110.tnt38.rtm1.nld.da.uu.net [213.116.170.110] with SMTP for id h34F3uvM017703 (8.12.8/2.04); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:03:58 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <003e01c2fabc$4cb967d0$6eaa74d5@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: "Ovation Pro" References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> <4bdd92077ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <005301c2fa9e$56d854b0$350075d5@padua> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:08:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist On Friday, April 04, 2003 3:12 PM, David Pilling wrote: >> Renaming a font isn't only a matter of renaming the name, that you >> see in the filer. As can be done with a text file. >> This isn't the case in RISC OS, it isn't the case in Windows. > > I know how to do this on RISC OS, you use FontEdit, load the font, > change the name in the font file. Don't do it this way! Or better, don't do it at all. For many fonts, loaded in !FontEd, !FontEd gives the warning about the loss of kerning data on saving. And that is exactly, what happens. > I don't know how one does this trick for Windows TT fonts - perhaps > there is a system tool or freeware utility? >> Maybe you are thinking about using an alias? > That can be done on RISC OS - although ISTR the slightest error > crashes the system. Again I don't know about Windows? > >> Also theoretically speaking and ignoring all considerations of >> copyright! > > Fair use... > No need, to repeat my views about 'changing fonts'. I already wrote that in my reply to John Cartmell. I would prefer a decent font mapping application, like Appletmanager, that is used outside and before running OP. It also seems to me the only way to go. This is at program level (like Choices in OP). It scans the installed fonts, offers the default choices and gives opportunity to make and store changes. Sometimes the only difference between RISC OS and Windows font names is the deliminator: period in RISC OS, space in TrueTypes. This can also be taken into account. !Fontprint in RISC OS (where a user can always return to the default settings) or 'Font substitution Table' as can be found in Device Settings of an installed PostScript printer in Windows, comes to my mind as examples. On loading of a document, missing fonts not present in the configured mappings, are reported and the user gets the option to substitute with a font of his/her own choice. Or -like at current- to substitute these 'unknowns' with a default like Arial (Windows) or Trinity (RISC OS). Keeping the two options 'temporaly' and 'permanent' alive. This is at 'document level' (like Preferences in OP). Of course, it would also be nice, when choices made at document level as 'permanent', could be saved at program level, available for further use. Just my views. I realise that is easier to write this, than to make it happen! -- Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 17:39:56 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049473857:20:12297:312".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:39:56 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049473857:20:12297:312; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:30:57 GMT Received: from smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.6]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2120133; 4 Apr 2003 15:11 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay02.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191Snx-0000ZT-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:08:33 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34F7cC03850 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:07:38 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.internl.net (altrade.nijmegen.internl.net [217.149.192.18]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34F7bP03846 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:07:37 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.internl.net via 1Cust110.tnt38.rtm1.nld.da.uu.net [213.116.170.110] with SMTP for id h34F3uvK017703 (8.12.8/2.04); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:03:57 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <003d01c2fabc$4c042190$6eaa74d5@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: "Ovation Pro" References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> <4bdd92077ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <005301c2fa9e$56d854b0$350075d5@padua> <4bdde10e4fjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:03:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist On Friday, April 04, 2003 3:10 PM, John Cartmell wrote: > On 04 Apr, Tonnie Demarteau wrote: >> John Cartmell wrote: >>>> ... (and ignoring all considerations of copyright!). >> Renaming a font isn't only a matter of renaming the name, that you >> see in the filer. As can be done with a text file. > >> This isn't the case in RISC OS, it isn't the case in Windows. > With RISC OS I'd presume anyone would use !FontNamer or equivalent. I > plead ignorance wrt Microsoft fonts. > > BTW renaming fonts is not for the unwary. It may be easy to do with a > program like FontNamer but it's very easy to confuse yourself in > subsequent use! I assume !Fontnamer also warns against violation of copyrights. I am very much against any copying/renaming/editing of existing fonts. Not only based on protection of copyrights, but also based on protection of the design. Only when the original is kept as it is, it can be reliable used in exchange. So, I am pleased that even renaming of fonts is not for the unwary. I am also pleased that many fonts are protected against any 'easily... less easily to apply' changes. No help from me in this area. Not in RISC OS and not in Windows. I also don't support anything done or to do in such a direction. -- Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 18:40:00 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049477921:20:05633:1780".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 18:40:00 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049477921:20:05633:1780; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 17:38:41 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id al2117615; 4 Apr 2003 17:12 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191Uat-00060V-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 18:03:11 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34H24I00468 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 18:02:04 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34H22D00462 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 18:02:03 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 191UZl-0000se-0Z for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 18:02:01 +0100 Message-ID: <77bWPNE$obj+Ewsu@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 18:00:47 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Colour separation of Artworks files in OP References: <001101c2fa17$a18d9ec0$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> <0626e5dd4b.martin@mw-software.com> In-Reply-To: <0626e5dd4b.martin@mw-software.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist >So, yes, this is a limitation in OP. I mentioned it to David some time >ago. At that time, David replied with some problem he saw, which I did not >think was a problem at all, but I then did not pursue the matter further. You said... Yes, from your code I see that you found out that the overprinting flag is bit 24 in the colour index. However, process colour overprinting still does not work for me. From what I see in your code you do not handle the overprint flag for named process colours, only for spot colours and for any colour on a spot plate. But some black object with overprinting on top of a yellow object still knocks it out on the yellow plate. The attached file shows a trivial example: The top ellipse should appear fully in the yellow separation. Of course, OP may choose to ignore the flag for process colours but as you handle process colour overprinting anyway, it should not be too difficult. and I replied... You had a point about over printing process colours. Yes but... OP only does this for the 4 special colours which it knows are the process colours CMYK. Any old colour can't be handled this way. We know that all the C ink should be on the C plate, so we can knock it out or not. Problem is how would I discover which AW colours are these special 4? -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 19:30:03 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049480919:10:10469:53".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:30:03 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049480919:10:10469:53; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 18:28:39 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id af1007310; 4 Apr 2003 18:27 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191Vp6-000813-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 19:21:56 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34IKX517492 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:20:33 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34IKTL17473 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:20:29 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 191Vnf-0003TZ-0Z for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 19:20:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 19:13:48 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OP - Windows version Message-ID: <4bddfcda2ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <003d01c2fabc$4c042190$6eaa74d5@padua> References: <4bdd0af6baowlart@argonet.co.uk> <000901c2f9d5$2a811c90$68a074d5@padua> <2d5759dd4b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <000901c2f9e1$752c4ab0$869a74d5@padua> <000d01c2fa17$37266490$067c74d5@padua> <4bdd92077ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <005301c2fa9e$56d854b0$350075d5@padua> <4bdde10e4fjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <003d01c2fabc$4c042190$6eaa74d5@padua> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03g (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist On 04 Apr, Tonnie Demarteau wrote: > On Friday, April 04, 2003 3:10 PM, John Cartmell > wrote: > > On 04 Apr, Tonnie Demarteau wrote: > >> John Cartmell wrote: > >>>> ... (and ignoring all considerations of copyright!). > >> Renaming a font isn't only a matter of renaming the name, that you > >> see in the filer. As can be done with a text file. > > > >> This isn't the case in RISC OS, it isn't the case in Windows. > > With RISC OS I'd presume anyone would use !FontNamer or equivalent. I > > plead ignorance wrt Microsoft fonts. > > > > BTW renaming fonts is not for the unwary. It may be easy to do with a > > program like FontNamer but it's very easy to confuse yourself in > > subsequent use! > I assume !Fontnamer also warns against violation of copyrights. No Fontnamer just does it - and quite well (ie simply). The warning was from me. I've found its use in splitting font families where otherwise choosing Bold would choose the bold of a sub-family. Of course this is a waste of time where you are sending documents to other people. probably its best use is in sorting out the names of silly PD fonts that have 2 or 3 levels before you get font data or for substituting a font name to help recover a document. > I am very much against any copying/renaming/editing of existing fonts. > Not only based on protection of copyrights, but also based on protection > of the design. Absolutely! [Snip] -- John Cartmell john@cartmell.demon.co.uk FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 Acorn Publisher magazine & http://www.acornpublisher.com Fleur Designs (boardgames) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 4 19:40:00 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049481397:10:28972:87".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:40:00 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049481397:10:28972:87; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 18:36:37 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ag1128156; 4 Apr 2003 18:36 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 191W0F-0000mJ-00; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 19:33:27 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34IWtA19893 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:32:55 +0100 Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h34IWt119886 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:32:55 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([80.5.93.221]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP id <20030404183255.VFKW9882.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:32:55 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c2fad8$a576c720$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> From: "Jeff Wallis" To: References: <001101c2fa17$a18d9ec0$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> <0626e5dd4b.martin@mw-software.com> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Colour separation of Artworks files in OP Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:33:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Wuerthner" To: Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Colour separation of Artworks files in OP > In message <001101c2fa17$a18d9ec0$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> > "Jeff Wallis" wrote: > > > I am importing an AW file into OP. The AW file (CMYK colours) contains an > > object which is set to overprint a coloured rectangle beneath it. The file > > separates correctly in AW, it also separates correctly when exported to > > Impression Publisher but in OP the overprint attribute is ignored. > > > > Is there a solution to this or is it a limitation of OP ? > > Yes, this is a limitation in OP - although I do not quite understand why > it is there. Colour separation and overprinting are handled in the client > application, so AWRender cannot do anything about it. It is up to OP to > decide how to do it. > > If you draw a Cyan rectangle with two red rectangles on top of it, one > overprinting the other one not overprinting, then the latter knocks out > the Cyan, while the formed does not. This works fine when you draw the > objects in OP. If you import the same in an ArtWorks file, then both > rectangles knock out the Cyan when displayed in OP. > (Snip) I have been experimenting further and I think I may have come across a workround, (maybe it's what you're supposed to do !) AW file Define any colour to be overprinted as a spot colour Set the 'overprint' attribute to relevant objects in the usual way OP File Set 'use spots' in Picture/process dialogue box Define new colour(s) with the same name and matching the AW colours (if they don't already exist) as RGB or CMYK colours - NB not as spot colours. The imported AW file then seems to separate correctly between the CMYK plates. I haven't tried it on an actual printed job yet but it looks OK on screen. Jeff Wallis -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 9 18:09:56 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049873588:10:07943:67".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:09:56 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049873588:10:07943:67; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 07:33:08 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007494; 9 Apr 2003 7:32 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 193A4D-0002iN-00; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:32:21 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h397VaW22349 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:31:36 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h397VYk22339 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:31:34 +0100 Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 193A3S-0004vL-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 09:31:34 +0200 Received: from [172.178.0.122] (helo=goedel) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 193A3Q-0000yR-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 09:31:32 +0200 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 09:32:02 +0200 From: Martin Wuerthner To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Colour separation of Artworks files in OP Message-ID: References: <0626e5dd4b.martin@mw-software.com> <000301c2fad8$a576c720$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <000301c2fad8$a576c720$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.61 (MsgServe/2.02) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist In message <000301c2fad8$a576c720$dd5d0550@oemcomputer> "Jeff Wallis" wrote: > I have been experimenting further and I think I may have come across a > workround, (maybe it's what you're supposed to do !) > > AW file > Define any colour to be overprinted as a spot colour > Set the 'overprint' attribute to relevant objects in the usual way > > OP File > Set 'use spots' in Picture/process dialogue box > Define new colour(s) with the same name and matching the AW colours (if they > don't already exist) as RGB or CMYK colours - NB not as spot colours. > > The imported AW file then seems to separate correctly between the CMYK > plates. I haven't tried it on an actual printed job yet but it looks OK on > screen. If it works, fine. But it is certainly not what you are supposed to do. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 9 18:10:07 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049873587:20:29470:61".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:10:07 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049873587:20:29470:61; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 07:33:07 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2029530; 9 Apr 2003 7:32 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 193A4D-0002iO-00; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:32:21 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h397VXl22336 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:31:33 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h397VWn22333 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:31:32 +0100 Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 193A3P-0005Tn-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 09:31:31 +0200 Received: from [172.178.0.122] (helo=goedel) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 193A3O-0000yR-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 09:31:31 +0200 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 09:30:41 +0200 From: Martin Wuerthner To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Colour separation of Artworks files in OP Message-ID: <2c2755e04b.martin@mw-software.com> References: <0626e5dd4b.martin@mw-software.com> <77bWPNE$obj+Ewsu@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <77bWPNE$obj+Ewsu@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.61 (MsgServe/2.02) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist In message <77bWPNE$obj+Ewsu@pilling.demon.co.uk> David Pilling wrote: > >So, yes, this is a limitation in OP. I mentioned it to David some time > >ago. At that time, David replied with some problem he saw, which I did not > >think was a problem at all, but I then did not pursue the matter further. > > You said... > > > Yes, from your code I see that you found out that the overprinting flag > > is bit 24 in the colour index. However, process colour overprinting > > still does not work for me. From what I see in your code you do not > > handle the overprint flag for named process colours, only for spot > > colours and for any colour on a spot plate. But some black object with > > overprinting on top of a yellow object still knocks it out on the yellow > > plate. The attached file shows a trivial example: The top ellipse should > > appear fully in the yellow separation. Of course, OP may choose to > > ignore the flag for process colours but as you handle process colour > > overprinting anyway, it should not be too difficult. > > and I replied... > > You had a point about over printing process colours. Yes but... OP only > does this for the 4 special colours which it knows are the process > colours CMYK. Any old colour can't be handled this way. It can. And it should. What is wrong with the simple algorithm I posted in another message in this thread? You just check whether the colour's component that corresponds to the current plate is zero. > We know that all the C ink should be on the C plate, so we can knock it > out or not. Problem is how would I discover which AW colours are these > special 4? Ah, yes, that was it. It thoroughly confused me. First of all, I do not understand why you would want to limit overprinting to just 4 colours instead of all CMYK process colours. But even if you wanted to, what is the problem finding these 4? Unlike spot colours, process colours have no identity, they are fully determined by the values of their components. So, if you want to check whether a given CMYK colour is Cyan, you just check whether C=1 Y=0 M=0 K=0 holds. Likewise for the others. There are no "special" process colours. Somehow, I have the feeling that there must be a massive misunderstanding here. If you prefer, we can sort this out in private e-mail rather than in the group. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 9 18:10:11 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049883060:20:22107:1647".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:10:11 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049883060:20:22107:1647; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:11:00 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac2003012; 9 Apr 2003 9:58 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 193CFX-0004ic-00; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:52:11 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h399pGC26415 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:51:16 +0100 Received: from cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.175]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h399pF026409 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:51:15 +0100 Received: from modem-2954.snake.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.123.138] helo=freeserve.net) by cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 193CEc-0006sD-Qh for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:51:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:47:38 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Large file now failing to load Message-ID: <4be0672f2amdavies@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/3.02f (RISC-OS/3.70) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist I have a large (ca 60 MB) OvPro file containing a number of unreferenced, non proxied images of up to ca, 11MB in size which has previously loaded without problems into OvPro 2.70. I am using a SA RPC with 128+2MB RAM and RiscOS 3.70. Over the last few days this file is now refusing to load into either OvPro 2.70 or 2.67 with the machine hanging and requiring an Alt-Break to quit OvPro. Double clicking on the file, without OvPro on the icon bar, hangs without OvPro even getting fully loaded and Alt-Break then clears an 'Unknown' app. I am not aware of any recent changes to hard or software. A backup on another disc, taken before this problem arose, also now refuses to load in the same way. In an attempt to check memory performance and DMA operation, I find that I can successfully load a succession of large (but smaller) OvPro files of 10 - 20MB in size without problems, right up to the limit of memory (ca. 116MB). As a rider to the above, when OvPro is quit via Alt-Break, I notice that its very large DMA memory slot is not cleared thus drastically reducing available memory until the machine is re-booted. Is there any way to overcome this? This file is quite important and any help in resolving the problem would be gratefully appreciated! Cheers - Malcolm -- Malcolm Davies ** Tel/Fax : +44 (0)1283 575 345 ** Burton on Trent, Staffs ** Email : mdavies@ukgateway.net ** -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 9 18:49:21 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049909465:20:18961:1015".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:49:21 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049909465:20:18961:1015; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 17:31:05 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id an2009421; 9 Apr 2003 17:19 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 193HkE-0001cj-00; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 16:44:14 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h39FhPN18679 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:43:25 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.189]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h39FhOF18669 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:43:25 +0100 Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 193HjQ-0006vs-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 17:43:24 +0200 Received: from [172.177.243.141] (helo=goedel) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 193HjP-0005Cy-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 17:43:23 +0200 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 17:43:48 +0200 From: Martin Wuerthner To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Large file now failing to load Message-ID: <6b4c82e04b.martin@mw-software.com> References: <4be0672f2amdavies@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <4be0672f2amdavies@ukgateway.net> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.61 (MsgServe/2.02) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist In message <4be0672f2amdavies@ukgateway.net> wrote: > As a rider to the above, when OvPro is quit via Alt-Break, I notice that > its very large DMA memory slot is not cleared thus drastically reducing > available memory until the machine is re-booted. Is there any way to > overcome this? At least this question is answered easily. There is a utility called "KillDA" that allows you to kill unused dynamic areas left behind by applications that have crashed. They are called dynamic areas or DAs by the way. DMA is something completely different. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 10 02:29:42 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049913673:20:03018:1489".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:29:42 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049913673:20:03018:1489; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 18:41:13 GMT Received: from smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net ([212.69.192.4]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ak2117998; 9 Apr 2003 18:37 GMT Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=spellings.dsvr.co.uk) by smtp-relay01.tc.dsvr.net with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 193JRr-0001By-00; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 18:33:23 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h39HWSg28529 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:32:28 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by spellings.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h39HWNN28513 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:32:23 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 193JQs-000KQd-0X for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 18:32:22 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:30:54 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Large file now failing to load References: <4be0672f2amdavies@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <4be0672f2amdavies@ukgateway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist >I have a large (ca 60 MB) OvPro file containing a number of unreferenced, >non proxied images of up to ca, 11MB in size which has previously loaded >without problems into OvPro 2.70. I am using a SA RPC with 128+2MB RAM and >RiscOS 3.70. In OP choices you will find some buttons that enable the program to check for corruption of documents on loading or before saving. I'd recommend turning these on and then trying to load the document. >'Unknown' app. I am not aware of any recent changes to hard or software. A >backup on another disc, taken before this problem arose, also now refuses >to load in the same way. The question will be is the document corrupt? If it used to load and now won't and it has not been edited then you can hope to get it to load again. One scenario, less common now, is that the size of the undo buffer in OP choices is different to the size the document was saved with - on loading some of the buffer then has to be dumped and any corruption can lead to a crash. >In an attempt to check memory performance and DMA operation, I find that I >As a rider to the above, when OvPro is quit via Alt-Break, I notice that >its very large DMA memory slot is not cleared thus drastically reducing The first 'DMA' above maybe correct, the second should be 'DA' - dynamic area. There are various tools around that will let you kill orphaned dynamic areas off, that's what you need to do. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From mdavies@ukgateway.net Thu Apr 10 02:29:44 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049917771:20:13806:85".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:29:44 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1049917771:20:13806:85; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:49:31 GMT Received: from fmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.218]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id af2108575; 9 Apr 2003 19:49 GMT Received: from [195.92.195.171] (helo=cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk) by fmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 193LFE-0001FW-N8 for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 20:28:28 +0100 Received: from modem-2975.wolf.dialup.pol.co.uk ([81.76.139.159] helo=freeserve.net) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 193LFD-0007vb-Af for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 09 Apr 2003 20:28:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: To: Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 20:23:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Large file now failing to load Message-ID: <4be09bed6bmdavies@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/3.02f (RISC-OS/3.70) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain In speedy response to my query On 09 Apr, David Pilling wrote: {snipped] > The question will be is the document corrupt? If it used to load and > now won't and it has not been edited then you can hope to get it to > load again. > One scenario, less common now, is that the size of the undo buffer in > OP choices is different to the size the document was saved with - on > loading some of the buffer then has to be dumped and any corruption can > lead to a crash. That's the one :-) I'd obviously re-set the 'Save buffer' option in General choices for a recent job but was unaware that the original troublesome file had been saved with the alternative option set. Changing this in the loaded OvPro now allows the file to load OK - just like before! Many thanks for another addition to the learning curve - even after ? 10+ years of using Ovation and OvPro! > >In an attempt to check memory performance and DMA operation, I find > >that I As a rider to the above, when OvPro is quit via Alt-Break, I > >notice that its very large DMA memory slot is not cleared thus > >drastically reducing > The first 'DMA' above maybe correct, the second should be 'DA' - > dynamic area. There are various tools around that will let you kill > orphaned dynamic areas off, that's what you need to do. Point taken (and retained!) and thanks also to Martin Wuerthner for the same advice and for also pointing me towards KillDA (on Neil Walker's web site). Thanks again and cheers Malcolm -- Malcolm Davies ** Tel/Fax : +44 (0)1283 575 345 ** Burton on Trent, Staffs ** Email : mdavies@ukgateway.net ** From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 10 02:29:45 2003 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <"pilling.1049922560:20:14708:70".pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:29:45 +0100 Return-Path: