From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 15:05:02 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149486 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 15:05:00 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988704488:20:14488:65; Tue, 01 May 2001 08:08:08 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2118411; 1 May 2001 8:07 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4186M300835 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 09:06:22 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4186H500826 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 09:06:17 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24568 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 09:03:29 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 09:06:39 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig &  hard spaces References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro David Pilling wrote: > > According to Graham Jones: > >1. With no text selected the "Modify Text" dialog should have a > >Kern option (according to the manual). > > This is an old one. A decision was made to change this behaviour after > the 1996 manual went to press, but before the first version of the program > appeared. Ooops, sorry, I didn't realise. I can't seem to find an option to apply kerning by hand - is that because there just isn't one at all? > >2. Hard spaces don't seem to produce a fixed length space in > >justified text! > > Some effort has gone into making this the way things work. Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, space in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it is useful. Graham. PS. Sorry for posting the last message from my non sub-scribed account, I thought it would look like it came from this account! -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 15:05:13 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149490 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 15:05:11 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988717945:10:06270:69; Tue, 01 May 2001 11:52:25 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125777; 1 May 2001 11:52 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41Bog401960 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 12:50:42 +0100 Received: from hobbit.iso.port.ac.uk (IDENT:exim@hobbit.iso.port.ac.uk [148.197.1.4]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41Boc501957 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 12:50:38 +0100 Received: from [148.197.249.149] (helo=ARMless) by hobbit.iso.port.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.14 #2) id 14uYfz-0008Qx-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 01 May 2001 12:50:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Simon Young To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 12:53:49 +0100 Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Message-ID: <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones wrote: > Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, > space in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it > is useful. Indeed, for example one uses a hard space to sepatate units from a number, so that the "word" of number and units remains unbroken. -- Simon A. Young BPharm MRPharmS PhD | Tel: 023-9284-3610 Lecturer in Pharmaceutics | Fax: 023-9284-3565 University of Portsmouth |e-mail: simon.young@port.ac.uk ================================================================== Please visit our web-site located at: http://www.sci.port.ac.uk/pharmacy/drug_del.htm http://userwww.port.ac.uk/youngs ================================================================== -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 15:05:35 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149492 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 15:05:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988712911:20:17377:69; Tue, 01 May 2001 10:28:31 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2016980; 1 May 2001 10:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41AOtQ01464 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 11:24:55 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41AOp501461 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 11:24:52 +0100 Received: from [62.188.143.145] (helo=62.188.143.145) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14uXIr-0001fp-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 01 May 2001 11:22:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Dr P.N.Young" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 06:28:11 +0100 Subject: Re: !POBar the end Message-ID: <4a73ae17c9pnyoung@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149400@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <149400@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <149400@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > >Thanks for trying it, and I am reassured. However, it gets odder. I > >have in front of me two bar-codes; one is on a letter from the Bank, > >put on by them, which is nearly the same as the one produced by POBar > >(just a few extra bars on the end in the Bank one). > Does it decode, and what to No, it gives 'bad four-bar sequence' errors. Best wishes, Peter. -- Peter \ / \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. Anne \ / __ __ \ England. Cecilia / / \ | | |\ | / _ \http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/pnyoung James / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \_____________ pnyoung@argonet.co.uk. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 15:06:03 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149498 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 15:05:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988722258:20:06349:82; Tue, 01 May 2001 13:04:18 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2129413; 1 May 2001 13:01 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41CrBN02332 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 13:53:11 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow035o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.121]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41Cr7502329 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 13:53:07 +0100 Received: from goatly ([213.48.248.15]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 1 May 2001 12:54:38 +0000 Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 13:41:33 +0100 From: Bruce Goatly To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> X-Organization: Perfect Page X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.61b User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> Simon Young wrote: > In article <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones > wrote: > > Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, > > space in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it > > is useful. > > Indeed, for example one uses a hard space to sepatate units from a number, > so that the "word" of number and units remains unbroken. That's exactly right; we need to (be able to) distinguish between a non-breaking space and a *fixed* space; the two are not necessarily the same. And just because Quark uses expandable non-breaking spaces doesn't make it right. (Look at the difference between the front and back halves of Nature magazine, for example: the back half - Reviews, Articles and Letters - is set by an external typesetter using 3B2; the front half - all the newsy bits up to Brief Communications - is done in-house with Quark. The two packages treat the fixed space differently, and I know which I prefer.) Oh, dear. I hadn't realized that Ovation Pro did this. I was about to change over some of my professional scientific publications from Impression to OPro because of the greater flexibility of the latter; unfortunately, two of my clients won't accept a non-fixed space between number and unit (among other places). If I can't achieve it easily I'll have to stick with Impression for those jobs. Bruce Goatly -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 19:04:24 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149518 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 19:04:22 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988739767:10:22933:125; Tue, 01 May 2001 17:56:07 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1103296; 1 May 2001 17:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41HsAV03590 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 18:54:10 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.6]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41Hs6503587 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 18:54:06 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via 1Cust124.tnt30.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.154.124] with SMTP for id TAA24012 (8.8.8/1.3); Tue, 1 May 2001 19:54:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <001501c0d267$e8c9fd30$4d01a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: "Ovation Pro" References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 19:54:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Tue 01 May, Simon Young wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 1:53 PM Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces > In article <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones > wrote: > > Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, > > space in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it > > is useful. > > Indeed, for example one uses a hard space to sepatate units from a number, > so that the "word" of number and units remains unbroken. There is a work-around by defining a style to apply tracking to a selection of a unit and the following number. Because a space and a non-broken space (ASCII 160) have also a proportional width, that differs from font to font, this tracking can't be the same for every font. For most fonts it is somewhere between 250 and 300 (em, I think, based on a scale of a design size of 1000). I have defined a style 'track 160 Trini(ty)' with the scope 'selection', that only contains 'text' --> 'tracking 250' switched on. For Homerton a style 'track 160 Homer(ton)' same scope, tracking 275. For condensed fonts, a lower value can be used, which you can find by trial and error ... Because there isn't a typed space (ASCII 32 nor ASCII 160) the 'space' created by the tracking remains a fixed white (or other background colour) and is part of the 'word'. So it remains unbroken. It isn't the nicest solution, but it works. Whether this also works in !pdf, I haven't tried ... mrs. Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 22:10:51 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149521 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 22:10:49 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988743526:10:28047:68; Tue, 01 May 2001 18:58:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1027433; 1 May 2001 18:57 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41Ikeb03977 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:46:40 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41IkW503971 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:46:36 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14ufAO-000Cqp-0W for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:46:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 19:47:47 +0100 Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Message-ID: <4a73f74c9ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > >Ooops, sorry, I didn't realise. I can't seem to find an option to apply > >kerning by hand - is that because there just isn't one at all? > There is a way, you use the key presses, Control and ; ' (or with > shift). Internally this works by applying some tracking, which some > people don't like. Having checked it (it's surprising what you miss!) I'd like to know why ' repeats but ; doesn't ? -- John Cartmell - Manchester, UK Fleur Designs -- FD Games - - - compact designer board games at: Acorn/RISC OS Show - - - Thornes Park Stadium, Wakefield 19th & 20th May 2001 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 22:10:52 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149522 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 22:10:49 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988741642:20:13935:80; Tue, 01 May 2001 18:27:22 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2120730; 1 May 2001 18:26 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41I24403665 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:02:04 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41I1w503658 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:01:58 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14ueTH-000Joe-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 1 May 2001 18:01:59 +0000 Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 18:28:14 GMT Message-Id: <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Ooops, sorry, I didn't realise. I can't seem to find an option to apply >kerning by hand - is that because there just isn't one at all? There is a way, you use the key presses, Control and ; ' (or with shift). Internally this works by applying some tracking, which some people don't like. >Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, space >in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it is useful. I guess there are different ways of arguing as the postings above indicate. How about if I provided the following... A new entity in text, called 'space' which gives a fixed vertical and horizontal movement. There would be a dialogue box to enter the size of the shifts, a button to make it non-breaking and you could enter shifts either as absolute (feet and inches) or as a fraction of the text size. Then there would be a few more predefined macros {emspace} etc. to allow easy insertion with a key press. Feel free to make suggestions or tell me how Quark etc. does it. There might for the time being be a horrible workaround by applying tracking to a space. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 22:10:57 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149524 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 22:10:54 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988742510:20:28935:73; Tue, 01 May 2001 18:41:50 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2118786; 1 May 2001 18:41 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41I22P03663 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:02:02 +0100 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f418WI501033 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 09:32:18 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010501083224.IWKP283.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 09:32:24 +0100 Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 09:32:06 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In a previous message, Graham Jones wrote: > David Pilling wrote: > > > > According to Graham Jones: > > >2. Hard spaces don't seem to produce a fixed length space in justified > > >text! > > > > Some effort has gone into making this the way things work. > > Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, space > in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it is useful. Then you need an en or em space, or some other variant. A hard space is not a fixed-length space but a non-breaking space. That is, if I type 'test text' with a hard space between the words, OvPro will not put a line break between the words. This is very useful in lots of publishing work as it saves a lot of tedious mucking around to get the layout right. For example, if I write "the plank was 9 m long" then I don't want the "9" on one line and the "m" on the next line. What length of space do you need and why? That is, what is a 'normal' space in justified text? John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 22:11:03 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149526 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 22:10:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988743961:20:24737:68; Tue, 01 May 2001 19:06:01 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2024260; 1 May 2001 19:05 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41I25H03666 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:02:05 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41I20503661 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:02:01 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14ueTJ-000Joe-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 1 May 2001 18:02:02 +0000 Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 18:37:44 GMT Message-Id: <149514@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: OPro news (new manuals) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi, When I bought Ovation Pro off Beebug (nearly two years ago now), I got all their stock, which included about 250 'packs' i.e. the boxes and manuals that come with Ovation Pro. Those packs are now exhausted and I've had to repackage the product. So Ovation Pro now comes with an A5 white PVC 3 ring binder in a slip case. (funnily enough just like the Impression packaging). The binder contains the manual as on the CD printed out. At the upcoming Wakefield show, there will be a couple of stands demoing Ovation Pro and they'll have copies of the new packs. Anyway this is very nice, a bit more of the Beebug legacy disposed of, and John van Vredenburch's hard work on the manual appears in print at last. If anyone wants a copy of the new manual then I've set a price of ukp 25 all inclusive. This seems high to me, but its a heavy item and a small print run. For most people using the manual on the CD will be the best thing. A lot of others don't like manuals or don't read them. or you can print it yourself. Turning to the script language manual. I can have some of these printed. Basically two formats are on offer. Either a wire bound manual (which is handy) or a set of 3 hole punched pages that will fit in the above binders (easy to change). If anyone is interested in a script language manual drop me an email. I'll see how high the level of interest is, and in what format (I'm unlikely to support both) before getting the script language manuals printed. Price would be less than 10 pounds all inc. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 22:11:20 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149531 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 22:11:18 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988745075:20:14565:66; Tue, 01 May 2001 19:24:35 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2112408; 1 May 2001 19:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41JO1F04435 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 20:24:01 +0100 Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41JNt504432 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 20:23:56 +0100 Received: from netvision.net.il (ras6-p16.jlm.netvision.net.il [62.0.150.16]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA18716 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 22:23:57 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <3AEF0D80.39264257@netvision.net.il> Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:24:48 +0300 From: Michael Ben-Gershon Organization: My Office X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.19 i686) X-Accept-Language: en-GB, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces References: <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro David Pilling wrote: > How about if I provided the following... > > A new entity in text, called 'space' which gives a fixed vertical and horizontal > movement. There would be a dialogue box to enter the size of the shifts, a > button to make it non-breaking and you could enter shifts either as absolute > (feet and inches) or as a fraction of the text size. Then there would be > a few more predefined macros {emspace} etc. to allow easy insertion > with a key press. Sounds a great idea. On another topic, I am slowly converting old Impression docs to Ovation Pro, and find the Impression loader very reliable (even better now it gets the filename correct as well). Michael Ben-Gershon mybg@netvision.net.il -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 22:11:26 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149533 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 22:11:24 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988745322:20:18357:75; Tue, 01 May 2001 19:28:42 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2018728; 1 May 2001 19:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41JRlt04494 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 20:27:47 +0100 Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41JRf504491 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 20:27:42 +0100 Received: from netvision.net.il (ras6-p16.jlm.netvision.net.il [62.0.150.16]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA18722 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 22:27:44 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <3AEF0E64.38E7C036@netvision.net.il> Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:28:36 +0300 From: Michael Ben-Gershon Organization: My Office X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.19 i686) X-Accept-Language: en-GB, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Page # of # References: <364281FA.231A@net.ntl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R This is a follow-on query to an old question: Pete Bready wrote (in November 1988!): > > Sam Smith wrote: > > > > Is there any way to get Ovation Pro to put "page x of y" > > automatically (ie, page 1 of 4 on the first page, 2 of 4 on the > > second etc). I have an applet (I think - it may be part of the > > main program) which adds page # (where # is the current page > > number) but not what page of how many. > We really need a FAQs list, this is the fourth or fifth time I've posted > this - I know how David P must feel at times. No problem however :-) > > Put the MERGE commands shown below into a file, set its type to OVPDDL, > open a blank Ovpro document and drag the OVPDDL file to it, then use > Misc/Insert/merge tag to insert the necessary merge fields. > > Then preview the document using File/Mail Merge, clicking on the 'First' > button > to see the results. > > Cheers > > Pete Bready > pbready@net.ntl.com > > MERGE_02={merge 901 "time" "{gettimestring(\"%24:%MI:%SE\",macv)}"} > MERGE_03={merge 902 "filename" "{fileinfo(currentfile(),macv)}"} > MERGE_04={merge 903 "numpages" "{int i,n,f,c;f=currentfile();c=documentchapters(f);for(i=0;i; Wed, 2 May 2001 01:21:15 +0100 Received: from ppp-3-188.5800-11.access.uk.worldonline.com ([62.64.180.188] helo=ghc) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.worldonline.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #3) id 14ukOI-000192-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 02 May 2001 01:21:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Gavin Crawford To: "Ovation Pro" Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 01:21:12 +0100 Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Message-ID: <4a7415d308gav@crawford-print.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <001501c0d267$e8c9fd30$4d01a8c0@padua> References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> <001501c0d267$e8 User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/3.70) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Another work-around is to create a Non-printing colour and apply that colour to a character of your chosen width, such as a capital M or N. Some problems you have to watch for though, is the spell checker not recognising the words, and any text that is exported will need to have the characters replaced with spaces. -- Gavin Crawford email: gav@crawford-print.co.uk web: www.crawford-print.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 14:10:57 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149555 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 14:10:56 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988765251:20:15153:67; Wed, 02 May 2001 01:00:51 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2127770; 2 May 2001 0:59 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f420wbH05929 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 01:58:37 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f420wY505926 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 01:58:34 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14ukyV-0003St-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 2 May 2001 00:58:39 +0000 Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:26:13 GMT Message-Id: <149543@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Page # of # X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R >However, it does not seem to work within page headers. Does anyone know of >a way to do this? It is very useful to be able to put page # of # on the >page header. Seemingly mail merge tags are not replaced in header/footers. Might be a bug, might be some sort of optimisation. Needs fixing anyway. The obvious workaround is to create your own header out of a text frame, probably not too much trouble. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 14:11:11 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149560 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 14:11:07 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988804499:10:29359:129; Wed, 02 May 2001 11:54:59 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1103119; 2 May 2001 11:53 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42BL6k08163 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 12:21:06 +0100 Received: from msgrouter2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgrouter2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.141]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42BL2508160 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 12:21:02 +0100 Received: from bghill.onetel.net.uk (async39-13.nas.onetel.net.uk [212.67.109.39]) by msgrouter2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AAJ55458; Wed, 2 May 2001 12:21:00 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:14:18 +0000 (GMT) From: "Bernard G. Hill" Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces To: Ovation Mail In-Reply-To: <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id f42BL6l08163 On Tue 01 May, David Pilling wrote: >=20 > >Ooops, sorry, I didn't realise. I can't seem to find an option to appl= y > >kerning by hand - is that because there just isn't one at all? >=20 > There is a way, you use the key presses, Control and ; ' (or with shift= ). > Internally this works by applying some tracking, which some people don'= t like. >=20 > >Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, = space > >in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it is us= eful. >=20 > I guess there are different ways of arguing as the postings above indic= ate. >=20 > How about if I provided the following... >=20 > A new entity in text, called 'space' which gives a fixed vertical and > horizontal movement. There would be a dialogue box to enter the size > of the shifts, a button to make it non-breaking and you could enter > shifts either as absolute > (feet and inches) or as a fraction of the text size. Then there would b= e > a few more predefined macros {emspace} etc. to allow easy insertion > with a key press. >=20 > Feel free to make suggestions or tell me how Quark etc. does it. >=20 > This would be an excellent solution to the problem. Within 'Pagemaker'=A9 en and em spaces are available by control key/keyboard, combinations, which I often found useful. Numbers in the old lead type are usually on an en body so an en space keeps numbers correctly spaced when used in situations such as telephone numbers. That is how we always did it in the old days anyway. If the proposed 'space' solution as suggested above is implemented, may I make a plea that the suggested en and em spaces be available as a pre-defined choice? Could control/spacebar and control/shift/spacebar be used for these? Perhaps we only need these two fixed spaces, as greater horizontal spaces are catered for by tabs, and vertical spaces by leading. Bernard. --=20 Bernard G. Hill Tel/Fax: 01633 880197 Zion, Church Road Undy, Caldicot =20 NP26 3EN=20 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 14:11:15 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149562 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 14:11:12 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988784106:20:24819:68; Wed, 02 May 2001 06:15:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2121171; 2 May 2001 6:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f426Cvb07048 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 07:12:57 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow035o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.121]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f426Cs507045 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 07:12:54 +0100 Received: from goatly ([213.48.249.144]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 2 May 2001 06:14:47 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 07:11:18 +0100 From: Bruce Goatly To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Message-ID: <9ee035744a%ovation@goatly.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Perfect Page X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.61b User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > A new entity in text, called 'space' which gives a fixed vertical and horizontal > movement. There would be a dialogue box to enter the size of the shifts, a > button to make it non-breaking and you could enter shifts either as absolute > (feet and inches) or as a fraction of the text size. Then there would be > a few more predefined macros {emspace} etc. to allow easy insertion > with a key press. Sounds like a good idea - meets the original perceived need and goes beyond it! > Feel free to make suggestions or tell me how Quark etc. does it. I've a nasty feeling that it doesn't - I'll try to check today while I'm over at Nature. Bruce Goatly -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 14:11:26 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149567 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 14:11:25 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988793163:20:09941:67; Wed, 02 May 2001 08:46:03 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2104593; 2 May 2001 8:45 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f428irE07559 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:44:53 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f428io507556 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:44:50 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10485 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:42:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AEFC918.6E96B8EA@sharp.co.uk> Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 09:45:12 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R John Pettigrew wrote: > What length of space do you need and why? That is, what is a 'normal' space > in justified text? By "normal" length, I mean a space of the length you get in non-justified text for the font you are using. As others have noted they are needed for things like units after a measurement. I appreciate there is a difference between a non-breaking space and a fixed length space, but my experience with other software is that these have usually been made to be one and the same. And the printed manual said a hard space would insert a fixed length, non-breaking space. Graham. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 14:11:47 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149573 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 14:11:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988807297:20:11110:85; Wed, 02 May 2001 12:41:37 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2028596; 2 May 2001 12:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42CKJB08415 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 13:20:19 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42CKF508411 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 13:20:15 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13996 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 13:17:03 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AEFFB78.877D8584@sharp.co.uk> Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 13:20:08 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kerning & ? hard spaces References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R "Bernard G. Hill" wrote: > > On Tue 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > > How about if I provided the following... > > > > A new entity in text, called 'space' which gives a fixed vertical and > > horizontal movement. There would be a dialogue box to enter the size > > of the shifts, a button to make it non-breaking and you could enter > > shifts either as absolute > > (feet and inches) or as a fraction of the text size. Then there would be > > a few more predefined macros {emspace} etc. to allow easy insertion > > with a key press. > > > > Feel free to make suggestions or tell me how Quark etc. does it. > > > If the proposed 'space' solution as suggested above is implemented, may > I make a plea that the suggested en and em spaces be available as a > pre-defined choice? Could control/spacebar and control/shift/spacebar be > used for these? > > Perhaps we only need these two fixed spaces, as greater horizontal > spaces are catered for by tabs, and vertical spaces by leading. I like the sound of the system David suggested, as long as easy to use defaults are set somewhere (ctrl-space etc sound nice if not already used). The complete system suggested may be very useful, for example in cases where the text reading direction is vertical - I don't think this can be done easily yet, though I haven't looked closely. In this case you would just use the new "space" in place of all normal spaces, either via an applet, or manually, or by binding them to the spacebar itself. Graham. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 17:49:22 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149592 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 17:49:21 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988814339:20:08975:298; Wed, 02 May 2001 14:38:59 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2121966; 2 May 2001 14:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42E2e808865 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:40 +0100 Received: from mail5.svr.pol.co.uk (mail5.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f429Ku507781 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 10:20:56 +0100 Received: from modem-15.flunitrazepam.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.95.143] helo=weatherpost.fsnet.co.uk) by mail5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14usof-0004pl-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 02 May 2001 10:21:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ned Abell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:19:53 +0100 Subject: Trapping? Message-ID: <4a74472474nedabell@enterprise.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Ive been asked by a printer to add trapping to some PS files because he cant guarantee registration. Ive looked at the manual and see the OP approach is to Overprint. When the colour tint is less than 90% overprinting can cause colour changes so in this case trapping could be a "good thing". However looking through the mail archives I see others think trapping as practiced by Qurk etc is "a very bad thing" :-) So has any one a work round when youve got say a mid yellow and a mid grey meeting being printed on white paper? -- besters.. Ned === -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 17:49:26 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149594 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 17:49:24 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988813584:10:29260:123; Wed, 02 May 2001 14:26:24 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1123341; 2 May 2001 14:26 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42E2UY08856 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:30 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42E2P508852 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:25 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14uxD4-000C3s-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 2 May 2001 14:02:30 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 14:21:15 GMT Message-Id: <149576@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kerning & ? hard spaces X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >The complete system suggested may be very useful, for example in cases where >the text reading direction is vertical - I don't think this can be done >easily yet A favourite game of mine, was to have a text frame at 90 degrees, and then fill it with text with a -90 degree rotation. You end up with upright text going down the page. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 17:49:31 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149596 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 17:49:28 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988815931:10:19724:64; Wed, 02 May 2001 15:05:31 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1102905; 2 May 2001 15:05 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42E2SL08855 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:28 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42E2N508847 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:24 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14uxD2-000C3s-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 2 May 2001 14:02:28 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 14:17:32 GMT Message-Id: <149574@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >And the printed manual said a hard space would insert a fixed length, >non-breaking space. Oops. No one told me. I do think (now you've explained it) that a hard space having a fixed length is probably the best compromise. Typically when you don't want text split, you also don't want it spreading out. Alas when I was doing it I got into the programming side, something was wrong with the way hard spaces worked and I fixed it. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 17:49:34 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149597 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 17:49:32 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988816260:10:26378:91; Wed, 02 May 2001 15:11:00 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1115250; 2 May 2001 15:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42E2h208866 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:43 +0100 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f428th507674 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:55:43 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010502085549.CVUZ285.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:55:49 +0100 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 09:55:25 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> <3AEFC918.6E96B8EA@ In-Reply-To: <3AEFC918.6E96B8EA@sharp.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In a previous message, Graham Jones wrote: > John Pettigrew wrote: > > What length of space do you need and why? That is, what is a 'normal' > > space in justified text? > > By "normal" length, I mean a space of the length you get in non-justified > text for the font you are using. As others have noted they are needed for > things like units after a measurement. Interesting. As you might have gathered, I work in publishing (for a variety of companies) and my experience is that publishers are ditching (mostly, have ditched) fixed spaces for units. They can also look very odd. In spacey text, the closer spacing before the unit can look good, but in tight text this produces a space that looks too wide. However, David's suggested solution sounds great - gives people the option, which has to be good. John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From chris.chorley@physics.org Wed May 2 22:29:12 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149609 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:10 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988823667:10:03598:36; Wed, 02 May 2001 17:14:27 GMT Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1128540; 2 May 2001 17:14 GMT Received: from [62.7.12.241] (helo=deskpro.physics.org) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14v0Cn-0000hS-00 for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 02 May 2001 18:14:26 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010502180652.009e58f0@mail.btinternet.com> X-Sender: chris.chorley@mail.btinternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 18:10:58 +0100 To: opro@pilling.demon.co.uk From: Chris Chorley Subject: script language manual Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed David, 1. I'll be sending for the OvPro manual. ukp25 doesn't seem too bad. 2. I'd also send for a script manual, prefer set of 3 hole punched pages that will fit in the above binders. If it's not too long before you've gauged reaction to the script manual offering, then I'll wait until that is available and order both. Thanks, Chris. From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:12 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149608 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:10 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988825267:20:06712:70; Wed, 02 May 2001 17:41:07 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2006340; 2 May 2001 17:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42H1DF09879 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:01:13 +0100 Received: from bonn.shuttle.de (bonn.shuttle.de [194.95.249.247]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42GJP509692 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 17:19:33 +0100 Received: by bonn.shuttle.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 916E817DC3; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:19:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hmg-koeln.de by Arktur.hmanngym.k.nw.schule.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m12mdjB-000fH3C; Tue, 2 May 100 16:32 MET DST Message-ID: <3AF00BB9.C115CD5D@hmg-koeln.de> Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 15:29:29 +0200 From: Jochen Konietzko Organization: Heinrich-Mann-Gymnasium X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [de] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V References: <149543@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I just tried to duplicate part of a page with Ctr-C and Ctrl-V; the copy contained none of the styles nor effects of the original. How can I copy text with all frills included? Cheers, Jochen Konietzko -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:16 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149611 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:14 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988824369:10:20997:88; Wed, 02 May 2001 17:26:09 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1021091; 2 May 2001 17:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42H1MS09891 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:01:22 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42H1F509885 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:01:15 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v009-000C7I-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 2 May 2001 17:01:21 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 18:01:35 GMT Message-Id: <149606@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Could I ask you to follow your original suggestion and leave the proportional >hard space in? (Alas(?)) there is no question of changing it. To do so would break lots of documents. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:19 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149612 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:17 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988826778:20:12592:70; Wed, 02 May 2001 18:06:18 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2109704; 2 May 2001 18:05 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42I4L610152 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 19:04:21 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42I4H510149 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 19:04:17 +0100 Received: from [62.188.19.223] (helo=62.188.19.223) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14v0wn-0004YJ-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 02 May 2001 19:02:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Mijas Software) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 18:58:20 +0100 X-Organization: ArgoNet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.24 for RISC OS 4.02 Subject: Re: Trapping? Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Wed 2 May 2001 (10:19:53 +0100), nedabell@enterprise.net wrote: > So has any one a work round when youve got say a mid yellow and a mid > grey meeting being printed on white paper? > I would have thought that yellow overprinted with grey would work quite well. -- ___ _ __ ___________________________________________ |\/| | | |_| (_ / Scientific/Education/Utilities - RISC OS 4 | | | _| | | __) Software / email: mijassw@argonet.co.uk - Developer ____________________________/ web: http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/mijassw/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:23 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149614 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:21 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988827075:20:19799:65; Wed, 02 May 2001 18:11:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2019265; 2 May 2001 18:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42H1JI09889 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:01:19 +0100 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42FK7509392 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 16:20:07 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010502152013.RMSS283.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 16:20:13 +0100 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 16:19:55 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: References: <149574@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149574@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In a previous message, David Pilling wrote: > > >And the printed manual said a hard space would insert a fixed length, > >non-breaking space. > > Oops. No one told me. I do think (now you've explained it) that a hard > space having a fixed length is probably the best compromise. Typically when > you don't want text split, you also don't want it spreading out. Could I ask you to follow your original suggestion and leave the proportional hard space in? That is, leave the hard space as is, but also add the en space and em space macros, with the more complicated settings for those who want to delve. This seems most logical and flexible to me - you have the hard proportional space but also the hard fixed en and em spaces. I assume that no one can see a good reason to have a soft en or em space? How does that sound to others? John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:24 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149615 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:22 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988826155:10:03909:75; Wed, 02 May 2001 17:55:55 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1126617; 2 May 2001 17:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42H1Lc09890 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:01:21 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42H1E509882 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:01:14 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v007-000C7I-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 2 May 2001 17:01:19 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 17:56:08 GMT Message-Id: <149604@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Ctrl-C and Ctrl-VCtrl-C and Ctrl-V X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I just tried to duplicate part of a page with Ctr-C and Ctrl-V; the copy >contained none of the styles nor effects of the original. >How can I copy text with all frills included? It depends. Say I have text in document A in style 'Bob',I copy it to document B. Document B also has a style called 'Bob' but with different attributes. If I have 'rename styles' ticked in OPro text choices, then on copying the text and document B gets a new style 'Bob0' but retains its appearance. If the rename styles option is not ticked then the text retains its style 'Bob' but doesn't look the same - since 'Bob' in document B isn't the same as in document A. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:27 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149616 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:25 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988828031:20:14039:65; Wed, 02 May 2001 18:27:11 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2114873; 2 May 2001 18:26 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42IC3Z10254 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 19:12:03 +0100 Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.worldonline.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.worldonline.com [212.74.112.71]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42IBw510250 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 19:11:58 +0100 Received: from ppp-1-74.5800-7.access.uk.worldonline.com ([62.64.158.74] helo=thosechurchills.screaming.net) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.worldonline.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #3) id 14v16S-000Pix-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 02 May 2001 19:11:57 +0100 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 07:32:26 +0100 From: M P Churchill To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Message-ID: References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> <4a7415d308gav@c In-Reply-To: <4a7415d308gav@crawford-print.co.uk> X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.50 (MsgServe/1.50) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message <4a7415d308gav@crawford-print.co.uk> you wrote: > Another work-around is to create a Non-printing colour and apply that > colour to a character of your chosen width, such as a capital M or N. > > Some problems you have to watch for though, is the spell checker not > recognising the words, and any text that is exported will need to have > the characters replaced with spaces. > Is it not possible to have a font in which the space bar (or any other preferred character) gives a specific width character which has no lines in it? Then have that font installed as the default font used for the next character after pressing f11. If this would work, perhaps we need a font with a range of widths produced by pressing 1 to 9 for 9 different widths. Or does the 'system' detect any character with a width but no lines and either condense it to nothing or treat it as a space after all? (I may be revealing that I have almost no knowledge about font handling here!) -- Malcolm -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:29 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149617 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:27 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988828859:10:00347:65; Wed, 02 May 2001 18:40:59 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1109807; 2 May 2001 18:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42IV8M10553 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 19:31:08 +0100 Received: from typhoon.mail.pipex.net (typhoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.27]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f42IV3510549 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 19:31:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 8230 invoked from network); 2 May 2001 18:31:08 -0000 Received: from userev12.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.17.195) by smtp-2.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 2 May 2001 18:31:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 08:22:38 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a743c6857steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149514@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <149514@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In article <149514@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: [Snip] > I've had to repackage the product. So Ovation Pro now comes with an A5 > white PVC 3 ring binder in a slip case. (funnily enough just like the > Impression packaging). The binder contains the manual as on the CD > printed out. A neater package for the shelves above the machines, I think my bank account may become a little lighter. [Snip] > Anyway this is very nice, a bit more of the Beebug legacy disposed of, > and John van Vredenburch's hard work on the manual appears in print at > last. > If anyone wants a copy of the new manual then I've set a price of ukp 25 > all inclusive. This seems high to me, but its a heavy item and a small > print run. I think you tend to underprice things a little (which is nice for my pocket) and this is realistic - have you seen the price of manuals and technical texts recently? > For most people using the manual on the CD will be the best > thing. A lot of others don't like manuals or don't read them. or you > can print it yourself. There are a number of people around the csa newsgroups who have said they won't buy OP while the manual isn't available in printed form. If you haven't already done so, an announcement to the newsgroups about the printed manual version would appear to be a good idea. -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:39 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149621 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:37 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988833769:10:13670:64; Wed, 02 May 2001 20:02:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125271; 2 May 2001 20:02 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42K1r610970 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:01:53 +0100 Received: from sand4.global.net.uk (sand4.global.net.uk [195.147.246.106]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42K1o510967 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:01:50 +0100 Received: from pfbs06a02.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.150.252] helo=ianadunn.global.co.uk) by sand4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14v2n1-0000Eq-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:00:00 +0100 Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 19:38:10 +0100 (BST) From: Dr Ian Dunn Subject: Menu not present To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Dr Ian Dunn X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Hey up Currently on 2.63 Somewhere in the proceess of moving to the CD , whilst loading the appln I now get a message something like " Menu not present " . Pressing enter allows the load the proceed ( seems about half way through ) and as far as I can tell all runs normally . Can I do anything to eradicate this message ? TIA Ian -- Dr Ian Dunn 010101 at last in the 21st Century Use RISC OS - You know it makes sense Derbyshire Area Risc Club (DARC) Derbyshire Area Risc Club (DARC) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:43 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149623 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:40 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988836575:10:16259:66; Wed, 02 May 2001 20:49:35 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1101060; 2 May 2001 20:48 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42KliV11245 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:47:44 +0100 Received: from warrior-outbound.servers.plus.net ([212.159.14.227]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f42Kle511242 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:47:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 17397 invoked from network); 2 May 2001 20:47:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tinshill.force9.net) (212.159.23.173) by warrior with SMTP; 2 May 2001 20:47:38 -0000 Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 20:18:09 +0100 (BST) From: Anthony Hilton Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Tue 01 May, Bruce Goatly wrote: > In message <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> Simon Young wrote: > > > In article <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones > > wrote: > > > Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, > > > space in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it > > > is useful. > > > > Indeed, for example one uses a hard space to sepatate units from a > > number, so that the "word" of number and units remains unbroken. > > That's exactly right; we need to (be able to) distinguish between a > non-breaking space and a *fixed* space; the two are not necessarily the > same. I have a feeling that PageMaker 5 used to have options for en space and em space analogous to the en dash and em dash (or I may be dreaming as its nearly 4 years since I touched PM). Something like this would presumably suit Bruce and Graham - and probably others. Anthony Hilton -- ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:46 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149624 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988834237:20:20583:64; Wed, 02 May 2001 20:10:37 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2019500; 2 May 2001 20:09 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42K9Ec11024 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:09:14 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow035o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.121]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42K9A511021 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:09:10 +0100 Received: from goatly ([213.48.248.195]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 2 May 2001 20:11:13 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 20:16:26 +0100 From: Bruce Goatly To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <149606@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Perfect Page X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.61b User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message <149606@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > >Could I ask you to follow your original suggestion and leave the proportional > >hard space in? > > (Alas(?)) there is no question of changing it. To do so would break lots of > documents. Well, on reflection I can see a place for both types of non-breaking space. The expanding space is sometimes useful for forcing words onto a new line (I know this can be done with Shift-Return, but in OPro the remaining bit of line isn't justified, unlike in Quark), and the fixed one has already been discussed. My investigations into Quark have revealed that it can produce both a non-breaking en space and a non-breaking half-en space, which is better than I'd thought. Bruce Goatly -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:52 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149626 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:49 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988838741:20:18027:64; Wed, 02 May 2001 21:25:41 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2017419; 2 May 2001 21:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42LORL11445 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 22:24:27 +0100 Received: from host1.kbnet.co.uk (host1.kbnet.co.uk [194.168.148.2]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42LON511442 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 22:24:24 +0100 Received: from kbnet.co.uk (dialup056.kbnet.co.uk [194.168.148.218]) by host1.kbnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA03532 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 22:20:14 +0100 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 21:15:00 +0100 From: Mike Williams To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Trapping? Message-ID: References: <4a74472474nedabell@enterprise.net> In-Reply-To: <4a74472474nedabell@enterprise.net> X-Organization: Akalat Publishing User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/3.60) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by omega.barnet.ac.uk id f42LOO511443 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <4a74472474nedabell@enterprise.net> you wrote: > Ive been asked by a printer to add trapping to some PS files because he > cant guarantee registration. Ive looked at the manual and see the OP > approach is to Overprint. When the colour tint is less than 90% > overprinting can cause colour changes so in this case trapping could be a > "good thing". However looking through the mail archives I see others think > trapping as practiced by Qurk etc is "a very bad thing" :-) > > So has any one a work round when youve got say a mid yellow and a mid grey > meeting being printed on white paper? > It is possible but not easy. You need to define a colour which is the sun of the two colours in CMYK terms. Then arrange for a Overprint is very good when setting black text over any kind of backdrop as it stops knockput of the background. Despite it bei Mike Williams Akalat Publishing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 01:45:15 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149639 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 01:45:12 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988841451:10:18985:67; Wed, 02 May 2001 22:10:51 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1017827; 2 May 2001 22:09 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42M9ad11679 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 23:09:36 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.6]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42M9W511676 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 23:09:32 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via 1Cust195.tnt32.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.158.195] with SMTP for id AAA26304 (8.8.8/1.3); Thu, 3 May 2001 00:09:36 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <00cd01c0d354$c1d2b8a0$4d01a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: "Ovation Pro" References: <149606@pilling.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 21:59:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On Tue 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > > >Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, space > >in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it is useful. > > I guess there are different ways of arguing as the postings above indicate. > > How about if I provided the following... > > A new entity in text, called 'space' which gives a fixed vertical and > horizontal movement. There would be a dialogue box to enter the size of the > shifts, a button to make it non-breaking and you could enter shifts either as > absolute (feet and inches) or as a fraction of the text size. Then there would > be a few more predefined macros {emspace} etc. to allow easy insertion > with a key press. > and: > >Could I ask you to follow your original suggestion and leave the proportional > >hard space in? > > (Alas(?)) there is no question of changing it. To do so would break lots of > documents. I like (almost) everything, that contributes to greater flexibility. Towards old documents and documents, created in other programs. Towards old documents (and new ones) the offered solution is very nice. However *I* prefer entering shifts as emspaces, based on a em square (design size) of 1000 em. PostScript fonts and the derived dimensions and measurements like width in the fonts are based on this design size. Or is this what you describe as: 'as a fraction of the text size' ? Abolutes like inches, centimeters, points are my second choice. Towards documents or text, created in other programs (!Edit) that only 'know' a fixed width for ASCII 160, there should be a find&replace solution to replace the not-intended, but imported proportional space into a fixed space. Or can this already be done? mrs. Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:23:28 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149649 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:23:26 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988871183:20:07813:64; Thu, 03 May 2001 06:26:23 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2107478; 3 May 2001 6:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f430gpE12218 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:51 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f430gj512204 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:45 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v7Ck-0000oq-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 00:42:50 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:34:45 GMT Message-Id: <149627@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Is it not possible to have a font in which the space bar (or any other >preferred character) gives a specific width character which has no lines >in it? Yes. Not code 32 space (or code 160 non-breakng space) but you could have one or more blank characters that did the job. In fact I did wonder if fonts had such a thing. Wonder if Unicode spares a couple of its codes for the job. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:23:54 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149655 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:23:52 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988873333:20:27494:82; Thu, 03 May 2001 07:02:13 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2027068; 3 May 2001 7:01 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f430gtN12220 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:55 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f430gl512208 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:47 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v7Cm-0000oq-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 00:42:52 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:36:42 GMT Message-Id: <149629@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I think you tend to underprice things a little (which is nice for my >pocket) and this is realistic - have you seen the price of manuals and >technical texts recently? I suppose so, but I think you've already paid for the program. (compare with Windows were nothing comes with a manual and you have to buy a book). Like Mr. Gates my business is not selling books, I am only offering this manual for the few people who really need it. >There are a number of people around the csa newsgroups who have said they >won't buy OP while the manual isn't available in printed form. Um well OPro has always shipped with a printed manual, just not necessarily an up to date one. >If you haven't already done so, an announcement to the newsgroups about the >printed manual version would appear to be a good idea. Oh do I have to. People will fall asleep. Actually the manual is a major piece of work. But not everyone likes reading them... >Experience at work and various home manuals (including the OP) suggests >wire bound is not up to the wear and tear and is difficult to re-enforce. 3 ring is less prone to this problem. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:24:06 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149658 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:24:04 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988870304:10:20930:69; Thu, 03 May 2001 06:11:44 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1020298; 3 May 2001 6:11 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f430gw112222 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:58 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f430go512215 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:50 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v7Cp-0000oq-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 00:42:55 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:47:59 GMT Message-Id: <149633@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >but in OPro the remaining bit of >line isn't justified, unlike in Quark), and the fixed one has already been Page 68 in the Reference Manual... Flush zone allows you to control justification of the last line in a paragraph Normally the last line of a justified paragraph is not justified. However, if the end of the line is near to the right margin, it may look better justified. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:24:08 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149660 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:24:07 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988872075:10:27423:78; Thu, 03 May 2001 06:41:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1026925; 3 May 2001 6:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f430gu612221 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:56 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f430gm512212 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:48 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v7Co-0000oq-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 00:42:54 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:45:50 GMT Message-Id: <149631@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Menu not present X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Brings to mind... The applet Newframe in Others.Breakwell.Applets.NewFrame will cause an error "Menu does not exist" when Ovation Pro starts if it is installed. The solution is to get hold of version 1.01 of the applet. Or replace writeicon(newf_window,1,string_menu(newf_menu,0)); with menudefstring(newf_menu,0,4,s); writeicon(newf_window,1,s); in the main() function at the end of the Library.NewFrame script David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:24:10 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149661 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:24:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988886172:20:16499:107; Thu, 03 May 2001 10:36:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2120774; 3 May 2001 10:36 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43AYkD14163 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 11:34:46 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.6]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43AYg514160 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 11:34:42 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via 1Cust4.tnt18.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.130.4] with SMTP for id MAA06953 (8.8.8/1.3); Thu, 3 May 2001 12:34:47 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <001901c0d3bc$db2d10d0$4d01a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: References: <149645@pilling.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 12:35:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On Thu 03 May, David Pilling wrote: > >Towards old documents (and new ones) the offered solution is very nice. However > >*I* prefer entering shifts as emspaces, based on a em square (design size) of > >1000 em. PostScript fonts and the derived dimensions and measurements like width > >in the fonts are based on this design size. Or is this what you describe as: 'as > >a fraction of the text size'? > > Thats what I meant. We already use em's (for tracking). I know and I appreciate the possibility to use these units. > >Towards documents or text, created in other programs (!Edit) that only 'know' a > >fixed width for ASCII 160, there should be a find&replace solution to replace > >the not-intended, but imported proportional space into a fixed space. Or can > >this already be done? > > No it can't be done because as yet there is no fixed space. When I add it > you will be able to do this (um perhaps). (um perhaps)? Perhaps, a style/effect 'fixed space', that takes the width of the defined space (ASCII 32) of the currently used font to apply to the actually present -to big or to small- space (ASCII 32 or 160, non-broken or hard) ? Sadly, not every font has a width defined in ASCII 160. Not every font has the same width defined in ASCII 32 or 160. Not every font has (at least not visible) endash and emdash and also not always with the same ASCII codes ... Using absolutes or em units has one common disadvantage, when I *manually* have to enter the values. When I change fonts, font weights or sizes, the values don't get updated automatically. When I can't search them easily, I certainly can't replace or change them easily. When I have used a 'nice' e.g. 3 mm or 250 em in one font, it looks 'ugly' when I change the font to a condensed one, the fontsize to a larger or smaller one, or the weight from Medium to (Extra)Bold etc. Risc OS doesn't support Unicode fonts, so programs can't use fonts with more than 256 (minus the first 32) characters. All characters (and not always the sam e) are already defined in encodings to ensure switching fonts and PostScript printing can give the same result. Adding a 'new' char like 'fixed space' isn't a realistic option: at minimum all fonts on all computers should need updating. Creating a new font only containing widths seems to me 'impossible' to use. At minimum: how can I know which 'character' to use to get the width needed in the font in use? I am glad, I don't have to use 'justified' text :-) mrs. Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:24:13 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149662 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:24:10 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988872699:10:13832:64; Thu, 03 May 2001 06:51:39 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1119752; 3 May 2001 6:51 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f431Dq212305 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 02:13:52 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f431Dm512302 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 02:13:49 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v7go-0002PO-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:13:54 +0000 Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 02:05:33 GMT Message-Id: <149645@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Towards old documents (and new ones) the offered solution is very nice. However >*I* prefer entering shifts as emspaces, based on a em square (design size) of >1000 em. PostScript fonts and the derived dimensions and measurements like width >in the fonts are based on this design size. Or is this what you describe as: 'as >a fraction of the text size'? Thats what I meant. We already use em's (for tracking). >Towards documents or text, created in other programs (!Edit) that only 'know' a >fixed width for ASCII 160, there should be a find&replace solution to replace >the not-intended, but imported proportional space into a fixed space. Or can >this already be done? No it can't be done because as yet there is no fixed space. When I add it you will be able to do this (um perhaps). David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:24:16 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149663 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:24:14 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988875341:10:18920:67; Thu, 03 May 2001 07:35:41 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1128529; 3 May 2001 7:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f437Y9x13542 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 08:34:09 +0100 Received: from mserv1e.vianw.co.uk (mserv1e.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.97]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f437Y0513539 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 08:34:00 +0100 Received: from [194.119.179.59] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1e.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 14vDci-0000bv-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 03 May 2001 08:34:04 +0100 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Thu, 03 May 2001 08:22:08 +0100 Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 08:22:17 +0100 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Trapping? Message-ID: <3a36c0744a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by omega.barnet.ac.uk id f437Y5513540 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Mike Williams wrote: > In message <4a74472474nedabell@enterprise.net> you wrote: > > > Ive been asked by a printer to add trapping to some PS files because he > > cant guarantee registration. Ive looked at the manual and see the OP > > approach is to Overprint. When the colour tint is less than 90% > > overprinting can cause colour changes so in this case trapping could be a > > "good thing". However looking through the mail archives I see others think > > trapping as practiced by Qurk etc is "a very bad thing" :-) > > > > So has any one a work round when youve got say a mid yellow and a mid grey > > meeting being printed on white paper? > > > It is possible but not easy. You need to define a colour which is the sun of the two colours in CMYK terms. Then arrange for > I second what Mike Williams says about trapping: it is possible to do by handcrafting in simple cases but it is impracticable in more complex cases. Within the pre-press industry, there is a move away from managing trapping at the 'application end' (e.g. Quark) as workflows move from separated to composite. Trapping now often occurs further down the line, at the RIP, for example. However smaller printers/bureaus will still expect trapping to be in place and I guess that is the situation you have. When Cerilica announced Vantage I asked whether it would handle trapping. I recall the answer was 'no' and I still don't see trapping listed as a feature. David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:24:23 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149665 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:24:21 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988879304:10:10784:67; Thu, 03 May 2001 08:41:44 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010614; 3 May 2001 8:41 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f438e8t13814 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 09:40:08 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow029o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.123]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f438e4513811 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 09:40:04 +0100 Received: from goatly ([213.48.249.232]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 3 May 2001 09:42:08 +0100 Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 09:17:18 +0100 From: Bruce Goatly To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <149633@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Perfect Page X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.61b User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message <149633@pilling.demon.co.uk> DP wrote: > >but in OPro the remaining bit of > >line isn't justified, unlike in Quark), and the fixed one has already been > > Page 68 in the Reference Manual... Thanks, I was sure it would be in there... > Flush zone allows you to control justification of the last line in a > paragraph Normally the last line of a justified paragraph is not justified. > However, if the end of the line is near to the right margin, it may look > better justified. What I was describing, though, was forcing text *within* a paragraph to start a new line. So the previous line wouldn't be the end of a paragraph and ought therefore to be justified, whatever the size of the flush zone. I'll have to check again on Quark's behaviour here, but I'm fairly sure it does as I described, illogical though it may seem. It really depends on what the purpose of Shift-Return is perceived to be, whether it be "Continue with current paragraph but start a new line" or "Finish the previous line prematurely and start a new line". The fact that OPro and Quark behave (I think) differently isn't cause for criticism if their underlying philosophies are different! So I'm not advocating a change to OPro in its behaviour in this respect, because an expanding non-breaking space can be used for the same purpose, only its effect is predictable regardless of justification setting. My previous comment was intended to add a "fine by me!" response to David's remark that such spaces wouldn't be removable from the coding of OPro. Sorry for gratuitously introducing the red herring about Shift-Return. Bruce Goatly -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 17:32:38 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149687 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 17:32:37 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988903592:20:00786:66; Thu, 03 May 2001 15:26:32 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2114850; 3 May 2001 15:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43F6t214941 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 16:06:55 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43F6p514938 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 16:06:51 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14vKgy-000I1w-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 15:06:56 +0000 Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 13:31:46 GMT Message-Id: <149671@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Risc OS doesn't support Unicode fonts Unless you have the the version of the font manager which does. And I said it with an eye to Windows too. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 17:32:47 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149690 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 17:32:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988904497:20:24517:64; Thu, 03 May 2001 15:41:37 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2128110; 3 May 2001 15:41 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43F6oR14936 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 16:06:50 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43F6k514933 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 16:06:46 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14vKgr-000I1w-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 15:06:50 +0000 Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 13:28:42 GMT Message-Id: <149669@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Ctrl-C and Ctrl-VCtrl-C and Ctrl-V X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly; what I was trying to do was copy part of >the text from one chapter into another chapter of the SAME document. >Isn't using the Control keys an acceptable method there? Of course. What you say should work, and I can't see why it wouldn't. Perhaps my contrived example may show that things are not always simple. Maybe you could email me privately a small example. And could you please post to the list from the address you're subscribed from. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 17:32:50 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149691 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 17:32:48 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988905372:20:17214:80; Thu, 03 May 2001 15:56:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2016761; 3 May 2001 15:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43F6kh14931 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 16:06:46 +0100 Received: from bonn.shuttle.de (bonn.shuttle.de [194.95.249.247]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4382r513699 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 09:02:53 +0100 Received: by bonn.shuttle.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 133AC17DCB; Thu, 3 May 2001 10:02:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hmg-koeln.de by Arktur.hmanngym.k.nw.schule.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m12mrb8-000fHHC; Wed, 3 May 100 07:21 MET DST Message-ID: <3AF0DC34.2DD8B5C7@hmg-koeln.de> Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 06:19:00 +0200 From: Jochen Konietzko Organization: Heinrich-Mann-Gymnasium X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0322b (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Ctrl-C and Ctrl-VCtrl-C and Ctrl-V References: <149604@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro David Pilling schrieb: > >I just tried to duplicate part of a page with Ctr-C and Ctrl-V; the copy > >contained none of the styles nor effects of the original. > >How can I copy text with all frills included? > > It depends. Say I have text in document A in style 'Bob', I copy it > to document B. Document B also has a style called 'Bob' but with different > attributes. If I have 'rename styles' ticked in OPro text choices, then > on copying the text and document B gets a new style 'Bob0' but retains > its appearance. > > If the rename styles option is not ticked then the text retains its style 'Bob' > but doesn't look the same - since 'Bob' in document B isn't the same as in > document A. > > David Pilling Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly; what I was trying to do was copy part of the text from one chapter into another chapter of the SAME document. Isn't using the Control keys an acceptable method there? Cheers, Jochen Konietzko -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 21:27:40 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149699 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 21:27:38 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988910466:10:04172:65; Thu, 03 May 2001 17:21:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1003553; 3 May 2001 17:20 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43HJpT15656 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 18:19:51 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43HJh515653 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 18:19:43 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04395 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 18:16:44 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AF1933E.35B414AC@sharp.co.uk> Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 18:19:58 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ovation Pro List Subject: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I've just uploaded a new applet for Ovation Pro which is able to provide Japanese kana text entry and also to display text in JIS encoding using the real kanji characters. The applet uses the Wadalab kanji committee fonts to provide the characters, these have been converted to RISC OS outline fonts using T1toFont and FontFiend. This very definitely early test grade software - I have made use of the fonts and applets, but it hasn't had a hard bashing yet. At the moment, due to space limitation I havne't put up the full fonts set (41 Mb in total) so only the kana text entry is possible. The other fonts are ready and I'll sort out where to put them when I have some more time spare. I suggest anybody interested should go to http://www.4ozNuff.org.uk and download what you find there. Have a play and let me know how you get on, how the fonts look etc. I'm sure the applet can be improved. Graham. PS. I am about to go away for a week, so I might not get a chance to reply to comments for that period. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 21:27:47 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149703 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 21:27:45 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988912661:10:01193:66; Thu, 03 May 2001 17:57:41 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1117151; 3 May 2001 17:57 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43HuaL15871 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 18:56:36 +0100 Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com (mailout04.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.18]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43HuS515868 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 18:56:29 +0100 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.com by mailout04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14vNL3-00036J-03; Thu, 03 May 2001 19:56:29 +0200 Received: from veni (520042741018-0001@[217.0.115.127]) by fmrl04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14vNLH-1ZO3uKC; Thu, 3 May 2001 19:56:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Bellon To: Ovation Pro List Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 19:55:39 +0200 Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion Message-ID: <4a74fa32cesbellon@sbellon.de> In-Reply-To: <3AF1933E.35B414AC@sharp.co.uk> References: <3AF1933E.35B414AC@sharp.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain X-Sender: 520042741018-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <3AF1933E.35B414AC@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones wrote: [snip] > This very definitely early test grade software - I have made use of > the fonts and applets, but it hasn't had a hard bashing yet. Cool, at least it copes with all things I've thrown at it yet. Mind you, I've learnt Japanese six years ago and didn't use it since then, so I forgot lots of it. But the font looks nice and the conversion works really well as far as I can tell. :-) Greetings, Stefan. -- Stefan Bellon * * PGP 2.6 and GnuPG (OpenPGP) keys available from my home page Data file? No thanks, I prefer to date people -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 21:27:47 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149704 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 21:27:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988916153:20:05183:64; Thu, 03 May 2001 18:55:53 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2005005; 3 May 2001 18:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43IoDh16121 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 19:50:13 +0100 Received: from sand6.global.net.uk.noc.gxn.net (sand6.global.net.uk [195.147.246.105]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43Io9516117 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 19:50:09 +0100 Received: from pe4s06a02.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.150.229] helo=ianadunn.global.co.uk) by sand6.global.net.uk.noc.gxn.net with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 14kAQL-0004UV-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 20:55:39 +0100 Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:17:59 +0100 (BST) From: Dr Ian Dunn Subject: Re: Menu not present To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <149631@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Dr Ian Dunn X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Wed 02 May, David Pilling wrote: > > Brings to mind... > > > The applet Newframe in Others.Breakwell.Applets.NewFrame will cause an > error "Menu does not exist" when Ovation Pro starts if it is installed. > The solution is to get hold of version 1.01 of the applet. > > Or replace > snip > > > > David Pilling that was it , uninstalling new frame 1.0 has resolved it for the moment thank you kind Sir Ian -- Dr Ian Dunn 010101 at last in the 21st Century Use RISC OS - You know it makes sense Derbyshire Area Risc Club (DARC) Derbyshire Area Risc Club (DARC) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 21:28:07 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149709 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 21:28:05 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988920446:20:27209:67; Thu, 03 May 2001 20:07:26 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2115219; 3 May 2001 20:06 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43K5tT16497 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 21:05:55 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43K5p516494 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 21:05:51 +0100 Received: from [62.188.142.104] (helo=62.188.142.104) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14vPK9-0008Oa-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 03 May 2001 21:03:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Mr R O Davis To: Ovation Pro List Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 21:05:41 +0100 Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion Message-ID: <4a75061a82rod@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a74fa32cesbellon@sbellon.de> References: <4a74fa32cesbellon@sbellon.de> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02c (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Ihave tried to load this exciting new applet but meet a problem. I have put Kanji into the Applets directory but when loading OvationPro I get an error message: unknown identifier refreshbutton at line 325 in ....library.zKanji and the Applet is not loaded so I cannot experiment further. What am I doing wrong? -- /\ _ \ |==============| / / / \__\ |===================| | Rodger Davis | /_/ / / / \ | rod@argonet.co.uk | |==============| / \_/\_/ /___) |===================| -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 13:40:57 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149731 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 13:40:54 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988956700:10:08717:70; Fri, 04 May 2001 06:11:40 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1112333; 4 May 2001 6:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f443Cfn17789 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 04:12:41 +0100 Received: from smtp02.fields.gol.com (smtp02.fields.gol.com [203.216.5.132]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f443Ca517786 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 04:12:36 +0100 Received: from tc-1-2-182.shinjuku.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.9.182] helo=plattir.gol.com) by smtp02.fields.gol.com with smtp (Magnetic Fields) id 14vW1I-0006AE-00 for ; Fri, 04 May 2001 12:12:41 +0900 Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:15:02 +0000 (GMT) From: "Ian R. Platt" Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: <3AF1933E.35B414AC@sharp.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 03 May, Graham Jones wrote: > I've just uploaded a new applet for Ovation Pro which is able to provide > Japanese kana text entry and also to display text in JIS encoding using the > real kanji characters. > The applet uses the Wadalab kanji committee fonts to provide the characters, > these have been converted to RISC OS outline fonts using T1toFont and > FontFi