From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 14:43:36 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137315 for opro ; Tue, 31 Oct 100 14:43:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 972963319:20:21206:18; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:35:19 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2021107; 31 Oct 2000 3:35 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA19085 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:19:29 GMT Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA19078 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:19:24 GMT Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 13qRw3-000HS2-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:18:03 +0000 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:14:38 GMT Message-Id: <137312@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Euro instead of tick... X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Yes. Use Nick Kaijaks version of the Style Palette. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 14:43:44 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137318 for opro ; Tue, 31 Oct 100 14:43:38 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 972964216:20:19767:14; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:50:16 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2019665; 31 Oct 2000 3:50 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA19084 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:19:29 GMT Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA19076 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:19:23 GMT Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 13qRw0-000HS2-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:18:00 +0000 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:03:51 GMT Message-Id: <137306@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OvPro CD in Windows(NT) was: Re: Maillist textfiles X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I can confirm that NT supports both long filenames and multisession. Now put your OPro CD into an NT machine and say that. >The "standard" format for CDs these days is Joliet (sp?) I believe the OPro CD is using that. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 14:43:47 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137321 for opro ; Tue, 31 Oct 100 14:43:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 972965055:20:19417:14; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 04:04:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2019319; 31 Oct 2000 4:04 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA19083 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:19:26 GMT Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA19072 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:19:22 GMT Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 13qRw2-000HS2-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:18:02 +0000 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:11:22 GMT Message-Id: <137310@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Multirow? X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I did try this but it did not quite work for me. The button >activates and open its window before beeping and allowing me to move it. I >did not recognise this until I went back and tried it. yes thats a new bug that came in with 2.57 when I allowed buttons to behave in different ways with different types of click. I need to fix this but I'm not sure how at the moment. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 14:43:54 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137323 for opro ; Tue, 31 Oct 100 14:43:48 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 972965983:20:19001:14; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 04:19:43 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2018967; 31 Oct 2000 4:19 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA19070 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:19:22 GMT Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA19067 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:19:20 GMT Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 13qRvx-000HS2-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:17:57 +0000 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:56:58 GMT Message-Id: <137304@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: RE: Importing Impression X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >A small 'prob' with one documnet: My bubblejet requires quite large margins, >bottom especially. I had to alter the master page on each chapter (compare >below) to shorten the page length. Can the filter be asked to make smaller >pages? Err pardon. The Impression filter should create pages in OPro exactly the same size as those in Impression. >Also the master default [new] document is 'too long'. Is this also alterable >(sorry if I've forgotton how). Well it is A4. You can save your own default document, Main Menu -> File -> Save as default. This discussion makes me think that a solution might be to use the Print dialogue box to fit or centre what you're printing to the printable area of the printer page. >NB the documentation file on the disc also was paginated a bit long (David's >details couldnt print at the bottom of the page), also some pages were >'missing'. The thing there is that new chapters start on the right, so the missing pages are the left hand sides at the end of some chapters. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 14:44:18 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137332 for opro ; Tue, 31 Oct 100 14:44:17 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 972987858:10:05174:16; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:24:18 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1004793; 31 Oct 2000 10:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20511 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:20:58 GMT Received: from tvweb1.hiway.co.uk (root@tvweb1.hiway.co.uk [195.12.1.131]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20508 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:20:56 GMT From: Received: from mail-gw.quantel.com ([195.12.20.50]) by tvweb1.hiway.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24679 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:19:09 GMT Received: SMTP by Quantel-Mailhub (8.8.7/3.1). id KAA31454 for INET:ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:37:14 GMT To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Message-ID: <80256989.003582DA.00@buffer1.HQ.quantel> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:32:29 +0000 Subject: Re: OvPro CD in Windows(NT) was: Re: Maillist textfiles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Organization: Quantel Ltd. Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >> This supersedes all the previous white, red, green, yellow book stuff >> along with rock-ridge etc. So if you can create CDs in this format and >> they can be read by RiscOS then that is the way to go. >I think that's actually supersedes (according to Microsoft)... Probably, although it has been taken up by the Mac world >>I can confirm that NT supports both long filenames and multisession. >Now put your OPro CD into an NT machine and say that. When I get around to ordering it and it arrives I will :-) >>The "standard" format for CDs these days is Joliet (sp?) >I believe the OPro CD is using that. I guess with all these standards there are standard variations. What I see on our CD burner when I import a CD is lots of sessions labelled as Joliet format. I can then add to these using standard windows filename conventions, long filenames with spaces etc. record the new stuff and then read the CD on an NT machine (and win95/2K). I can also read these CDs on my rather aged Eesox 4x SCSI CD on my RiscPC although it does take an age to read large files. I will investigate further when the Opro CD arrives, but for now that is as far as I can go. Andy Ling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 14:44:20 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137333 for opro ; Tue, 31 Oct 100 14:44:18 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 972979483:20:29987:14; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:04:43 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2109818; 31 Oct 2000 8:04 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20004 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:03:28 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA20001 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:03:26 GMT Received: from usern032.uk.uudial.com (193.149.81.65) [193.149.81.65] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 13qWMu-0007UN-00; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:02:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: David Breakwell To: Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:49:24 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Export from OVpro 2.6 Message-ID: <4a1600e1c5davidb@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <004001c04273$29eddaa0$2c94a8c2@akalat> References: <136719@pilling.demon.co.uk> <518fa2134a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> <4a152de48edavidb@argonet.co.uk> <000 User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <004001c04273$29eddaa0$2c94a8c2@akalat>, Mike Williams wrote: > I have always found that mapping between PC fonts and RISC OS fonts to > be something of a problem with the RTF format. Any additional mechanism > which allows the user to specify font mapping would help, both in > importing and exporting. Noted :-) - I'm just rewriting some of the code at the moment to make it a little more efficient and hope to have something by the end of the week. Font mapping may have to wait until a later release. -- --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------. |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines| | | |\ | | | | |\| | | '---------------------------------------------' | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | davidb@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 14:44:23 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137335 for opro ; Tue, 31 Oct 100 14:44:21 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 972979492:20:00308:15; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:04:52 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2109994; 31 Oct 2000 8:04 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20009 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:03:31 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA20006 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:03:30 GMT Received: from usern032.uk.uudial.com (193.149.81.65) [193.149.81.65] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 13qWMx-0007UN-00; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:02:08 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: David Breakwell To: "Ovation Pro" Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:50:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Export from OVpro 2.6 Message-ID: <4a160100f6davidb@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <003301c04274$21cbfc70$4d01a8c0@padua> References: <136719@pilling.demon.co.uk> <518fa2134a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> <4a152de48edavidb@argonet.co.uk> <000 User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <003301c04274$21cbfc70$4d01a8c0@padua>, Tonnie Demarteau wrote: > And of course, ruler and tab settings implemented as default. Of course - just as soon as I remember what a twip is. David -- --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------. |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines| | | |\ | | | | |\| | | '---------------------------------------------' | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | davidb@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 14:44:28 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137334 for opro ; Tue, 31 Oct 100 14:44:20 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 972987866:10:05414:15; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:24:26 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1004796; 31 Oct 2000 10:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20506 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:20:27 GMT Received: from mail1.hw.ac.uk (mail1.hw.ac.uk [137.195.170.11]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20503 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:20:25 GMT Received: from punt1.hw.ac.uk ([137.195.150.23]) by mail1.hw.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 13qYVV-00017c-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:19:05 +0000 Received: from isambard.che.hw.ac.uk (isambard.che.hw.ac.uk [137.195.32.15]) by punt1.hw.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA29242 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:19:03 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Chris Johnson To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:12:36 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: !Applets Message-ID: <4a160dfdccC.A.Johnson@hw.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <136934@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <136934@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by punt1.hw.ac.uk id KAA29242 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by omega.barnet.ac.uk id JAA20504 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id JAB20506 In article <136934@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > It is true (I'm surprised) this sequence occurs twice in !RunImage > 00008910 : M.R=E3 : E352004D : CMP R2,#&4D ; =3D"M" > ... > 00008920 : M =A0=E3 : E3A0204D : MOV R2,#&4D > So to be more accurate you'd have to search for the two words (4 > bytes rather than one) and you can't change it to just any old > value, has to be one that can be used in an ARM instruction. > Incidentally normally a !RunImage would be squeezed and you'd have > to unsqueeze it before editing it. In case there are users who are wary of doing this hack themselves, I have now placed on the alternative web site a hacked version. Use at your own risk 8-) Regards to all Chris --=20 Chris Johnson mailto: C.A.Johnson@hw.ac.uk (at work) mailto: Chris@bulldog.u-net.com (at home) ovpro web site http://www1.che.hw.ac.uk/~ovpro/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 19:13:48 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137384 for opro ; Tue, 31 Oct 100 19:13:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973018521:20:01924:14; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:55:21 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2001854; 31 Oct 2000 18:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21861 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:50:14 GMT Received: from dervish.mail.pipex.net (dervish.mail.pipex.net [158.43.192.70]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21858 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:50:12 GMT Received: (qmail 22876 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2000 18:48:47 -0000 Received: from usered05.uk.uudial.com (HELO RPC) (62.188.10.184) by smtp-3.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 31 Oct 2000 18:48:47 -0000 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:32:17 +0000 From: Mik Towse To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OvPro CD in Windows(NT) was: Re: Maillist textfiles Message-ID: <4A1604CEB7%mik.towse@xemik.com> References: <137306@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <137306@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Xemik Solutions! Ltd User-Agent: Messenger-Pro 2.10d POPstar/2.02 X-Editor: Zap 1.44, using ZapEmail 0.25 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <137306@pilling.demon.co.uk> David Pilling wrote: > >I can confirm that NT supports both long filenames and. > Now put your OPro CD into an NT machine and say that. Hm. I produced a multisession audio CD on Win98. Windoze wouldn't read more than the 1st 5 tracks. My RPC read all 11! > >The "standard" format for CDs these days is Joliet (sp?) > I believe the OPro CD is using that. I was under the impression that ROS m/c couldn't read that format. -- Mik Towse * mik.towse@xemik.com * http://www.xemik.com/ My writers' site can be found at: http://www.lexis.org.uk I haven't lost my mind; I know exactly where I left it. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 20:57:39 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137394 for opro ; Tue, 31 Oct 100 20:57:37 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973025124:10:08470:14; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:45:24 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007038; 31 Oct 2000 20:44 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22139 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:42:51 GMT Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47] (may be forged)) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22136 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:42:49 GMT Received: from gwen ([62.255.40.48]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20001031204123.QRLL13163.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@gwen> for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:41:23 +0000 From: "Nick Kaijaks" To: Subject: RE: Taborca files print smaller? Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:41:19 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro > Printing an OvPro 2.6 A4 sheet of business cards via Taborca to file, > re-displaying it in Lea Smiers PDF viewer from which it is printed via > PoScript2 (v1.64) to a Postscript enabled Brother laser printer > gives cards > reduced from 82mm by 55mm to about 76mm by 52 mm. > > Reprinting direct from OvPro using the usual HP laser printer definiton > prints full size. > > Has this been seen by others? What have I set wrongly? Any diagnostic help > suggestions please. The default setting for printing out PDFs in Acrobat on a PC is to scale the contents to fit a page. If the "contents" is a full A4 page printout produced on a RISC OS machine, then that could, I guess, result in a scale reduction. Perhaps !PDF does a similar thing by default? Later, Nick -- Nick Kaijaks, Pinxit Design - Information Design for Internet and print http://www.kaijaks.co.uk/ mailto:nick@kaijaks.co.uk Disclaimer: caveat internettor -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 22:01:10 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137402 for opro ; Tue, 31 Oct 100 22:01:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973026793:20:06425:16; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:13:13 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2126503; 31 Oct 2000 21:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22313 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:13:09 GMT Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22310 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:13:07 GMT Received: from pbready ([62.253.12.98]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20001031211141.NCXZ270.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@pbready> for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:11:41 +0000 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:11:37 GMT From: Pete Bready To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: HTMLPro Message-ID: <98534a164a.pbready@ntlworld.com> X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Anyone got any example OvPro/HTMLPro docs that they'd be willing to share? While the latter's documentation talks of downloadable example files, I can't see any on levens website. TIA -- Pete Bready pbready@ntlworld.com -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 22:01:15 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137404 for opro ; Tue, 31 Oct 100 22:01:14 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973028827:20:27661:14; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:47:07 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2108502; 31 Oct 2000 21:47 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22493 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:43:50 GMT Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22490 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:43:48 GMT Received: from retreat.demon.co.uk ([158.152.123.49]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 13qjAp-0002kX-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:42:28 +0000 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:03:38 +0100 (BST) From: Malcolm Cowell Subject: RE: Taborca files print smaller? To: Ovation mail list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Hello Answering my own question to some extent - thanks Nick for confirming I was on the right lines today - spent a long time going round the loop using Acrobat reader on a PC in place of !PDF and Ghostscript's ps2pdf in place of Taborca. Doctoring the initial Postscript paper size to one called 'smallerA4' and ensuring the original OvPro master page was set to suitably smaller and it worked a treat. Malcolm On Tue 31 Oct, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > Printing an OvPro 2.6 A4 sheet of business cards via Taborca to file, > > re-displaying it in Lea Smiers PDF viewer from which it is printed via > > PoScript2 (v1.64) to a Postscript enabled Brother laser printer > > gives cards > > reduced from 82mm by 55mm to about 76mm by 52 mm. > > The default setting for printing out PDFs in Acrobat on a PC is to scale the > contents to fit a page. If the "contents" is a full A4 page printout > produced on a RISC OS machine, then that could, I guess, result in a scale > reduction. > > Perhaps !PDF does a similar thing by default? -- Malcolm Cowell IEng MIIE Python Publishing http://www.chilternweb.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed Nov 1 01:27:24 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137428 for opro ; Wed, 01 Nov 100 01:27:22 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973035579:20:15847:14; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:39:39 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2015833; 31 Oct 2000 23:39 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22993 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:37:55 GMT Received: from warrior-outbound.servers.plus.net ([212.159.14.227]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA22990 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:37:53 GMT Received: (qmail 6906 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2000 23:35:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tinshill.force9.net) (212.159.17.63) by warrior with SMTP; 31 Oct 2000 23:35:49 -0000 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:30:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Anthony Hilton Subject: Re: The dreaded extra page (again) To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: <65b904154a.JayCee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Sun 29 Oct, John Charman wrote: > In message <137082@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > > > > >I have created a 3 page document and on each page have created text > > >frames all of which are linked. A spurious 4th page is then added by > > >OPro itself which I cannot delete. > > > > hard to say without seeing the document, assuming it is small or > > can be stripped down send it to me by private email. > > > > the usual thing is that a master frame is coverered up, or > > there's something embedded in a story. OPro will always try > > to flow one page before giving up if things don't fit. > > > > Thanks David, have squashed it and it is attached. I know others have offered suggestions - I would delete the master frame as you're not using it and the problem will disappear. I think for this document I would creat it with no master frame and put the frames onto the master page with suitable links. Anthony Hilton -- ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed Nov 1 02:55:58 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137436 for opro ; Wed, 01 Nov 100 02:55:57 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973042177:10:06198:25; Wed, 01 Nov 2000 01:29:37 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1104599; 1 Nov 2000 1:29 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA23272 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 00:29:07 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21776 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:05:25 GMT Received: from usercp71.uk.uudial.com (62.188.156.100) [62.188.156.100] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 13qflQ-0007Sd-00; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:04:00 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Mr. D.M. Wells) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:50:03 +0000 X-Organization: ArgoNet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.24 for RISC OS 3.70 Subject: Re: The dreaded extra page (again) Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 30 Oct 2000 (06:25:47), David Pilling wrote: > hard to say without seeing the document, assuming it is small or > can be stripped down send it to me by private email. > > the usual thing is that a master frame is coverered up, or > there's something embedded in a story. OPro will always try > to flow one page before giving up if things don't fit. > I've had this effect a few times, when using frames nearly as tall as the paper. The solution is to click the text flow button, which controls flow of text around the frame: set the flow to 'none', and the extra page disappears! Hope this helps, Denys Wells. -- [email from dwells@argonet.co.uk (Denys Wells)] -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed Nov 1 13:30:25 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137450 for opro ; Wed, 01 Nov 100 13:30:23 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973067828:20:00092:15; Wed, 01 Nov 2000 08:37:08 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2121303; 1 Nov 2000 8:36 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA24186 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 07:33:45 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA24183 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 07:33:43 GMT Received: from userey39.uk.uudial.com (62.188.19.11) [62.188.19.11] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 13qtJl-0005CD-00; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:32:21 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:37:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: OvPro CD in Windows(NT) was: Re: Maillist textfiles Message-ID: <4a164cb460steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <80256989.003582DA.00@buffer1.HQ.quantel> References: <80256989.003582DA.00@buffer1.HQ.quantel> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <80256989.003582DA.00@buffer1.HQ.quantel>, wrote: > Probably, although it has been taken up by the Mac world Ah, yes, Apple ... recipients of the Bill Gates charity list. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed Nov 1 15:03:36 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137480 for opro ; Wed, 01 Nov 100 15:03:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973087008:20:22418:16; Wed, 01 Nov 2000 13:56:48 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2111926; 1 Nov 2000 13:56 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24990 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:35:12 GMT Received: from ihemail1.firewall.lucent.com (ihemail1.lucent.com [192.11.222.161]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24987 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:35:02 GMT Received: from ihemail1.firewall.lucent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ihemail1.firewall.lucent.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02536 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:33:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from uk0006exch001h.wins.lucent.com (h135-86-160-150.lucent.com [135.86.160.150]) by ihemail1.firewall.lucent.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02510 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:33:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by uk0006exch001h.uk.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4Y6PK7GV>; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 13:33:30 -0000 Message-ID: <475FF955A05DD411980D00508B6D5FB003F99A@en0033exch001u.uk.lucent.com> From: "Howe, Christopher Ian (Chris)" To: "'ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk'" Subject: RE: !Applets object limits Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 13:33:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R I've a nice old collection of Borders in fact more than I can put in the relevant directory that OvPro looks in now for its 'Impression-like' L-shaped borders. Hence I can't use (make available for selection) all the borders I have? > ---------- > From: David Briggs[SMTP > Reply To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk > Sent: 25 October 2000 14:01 > To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk > Subject: Re: !Applets > > If you are using RISCOS earlier than 4.00 then may I suggest an > alternative > storage for the applets - raFS. This allows for long filenames and lots of > > directories. Prior to upgrading to 4.02 I had all my applets in an raFS > directory inside OvationPro and after editing OP's !Run & !Boot files to > point > to the raFS directory, OP was quite happy with this arrangement. I moved > the > existing Applet directory out of OP, created an Applet directory using > raFS and > then transferred the applets across. I then set up raFS to mount the > directory > on startup. I guess that the same technique would work for !Applets. > > Hope this helps. > > On 25 Oct 00, at 10:54, Alan H Partridge wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > In article <08c5e1124a.Bernard@bernard.veasey.argonet.co.uk>, > > Bernard Veasey wrote: > > > > > In message > > > "Dr. Don Lewis" wrote: > > > > > > I have found the !Applets program useful, but the influx of new (to > > > > me) applets with 2.60 runs into trouble with the old limits on items > > > > in a directory still being limited by !Applets. > > > > > > > > Don Lewis > > > > > If you mean your !OvnPro.Applets directory is full with 76 objects, > > > just create a !OvnPro.Applets2 directory and put some more in there. > > > > No, it's the Applets program itself which is the problem. I like to keep > > all applets in !Applets.ApplStore and use the Applets program to install > > the applets I actually use. > > > > If it's any help I seem to remember getting two errors when I reached > > the directory limit - one from Applets and one from the filer. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Alan. > > > > -- > > Alan H Partridge, Physics Department, Oban High School > > mailto:perdrix@obanphys.demon.co.uk > > > > Remember what the dormouse said ... > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk > > with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message > > > David Briggs > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk > with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message > -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed Nov 1 15:03:46 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137483 for opro ; Wed, 01 Nov 100 15:03:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973090129:20:28904:14; Wed, 01 Nov 2000 14:48:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2028204; 1 Nov 2000 14:48 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25225 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 13:31:39 GMT Received: from mserv1e.vianw.co.uk (mserv1e.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.97]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25222 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 13:31:37 GMT Received: from [194.119.179.59] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1e.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.10 #37) id 13qytz-0000jp-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:30:08 +0000 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Wed, 01 Nov 2000 15:15:19 +0100 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 14:14:19 +0000 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Export from OVpro 2.6 Message-ID: <33f5a7164a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Alf Chamings wrote: >It is probably my inexpert use of GhostScript but there is a > drawback in that the screen quality is no where near as good as the original, > but it is perfect when they print it out. > Unless Type 1 postscript fonts are used (and embedded in the postscript) the fonts will be embedded as 'Type 3'. This makes them look fairly awful on screen but, as you say, OK when printed out. If you use Type 1, or restrict yourself to one the 'Base 14' fonts which are part of any Adobe reader package and therefore don't need to be embedded (although you will need to map the riscos names to the Base 14 names in your printer driver) you will find it all looks perfect on screen as well. The base 14 fonts are basically Times (Trinity), Helvetica (Homerton), Zapf Dingabats (Selwyn). David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu Nov 2 00:11:44 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137522 for opro ; Thu, 02 Nov 100 00:11:42 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973116930:20:09909:14; Wed, 01 Nov 2000 22:15:30 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2009764; 1 Nov 2000 22:15 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26225 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 20:33:20 GMT Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26222 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 20:33:18 GMT Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 13r5UC-0000Rc-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 21:31:56 +0000 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 18:06:41 GMT Message-Id: <137503@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: RE: !Applets object limits X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I've a nice old collection of Borders in fact more than I can put in the >relevant directory that OvPro looks in now for its 'Impression-like' >L-shaped borders. >Hence I can't use (make available for selection) all the borders I have? Maybe replace the 'Borders' folder with an archive of the same name. It won't be slow because they're loaded on start up. Or move to RISC OS 4 of course. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu Nov 2 13:46:09 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137546 for opro ; Thu, 02 Nov 100 13:46:07 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973156564:10:04583:16; Thu, 02 Nov 2000 09:16:04 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1101715; 2 Nov 2000 9:15 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27562 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:11:36 GMT Received: from snowy.kiwilink.co.nz (snowy.kiwilink.co.nz [202.27.215.2]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27558 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:11:31 GMT Received: from timk.ns.planet.gen.nz (ppp-29.kiwilink.co.nz [202.27.215.95]) by snowy.kiwilink.co.nz (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id eA298IE04805 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 22:08:19 +1300 (NZDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Tim King To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 22:10:27 +1200 Subject: CMYK/composite Message-ID: <4a1715776dtim@de-sig.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <5fe4040e4a.Bernard@bernard.veasey.argonet.co.uk> References: <5fe4040e4a.Bernard@bernard.veasey.argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02a (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Not exactly an OPro prob... our local Acorn printer here is trialling a new Xerox C410 laser. Put a cyan rectangle on the page, postscript it, and when it comes out of the printer it's a composite colour ie it's kinda muddy and through a loupe you can see bits of magenta and bits of yellow. The *same file* when sent to a NewGen Colorimage 2400 produces a pure cyan block. Start in Xara and print through the PC and it's pure cyan. Export that file to AW's and print from there - composite. The AW's file in OP - composite. Make a spot colour of 100% cyan - composite. He tells me he printed a photo through both the PC and Acorn sides, and to both the Xerox and NewGen, and all prints looked fine and were the same. I guess it was an RGB scan. So what's the Xerox doing to flat and spot cols? & can we beat it? Tim -- Tim King... de-Sig. +64 9 478.3114 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu Nov 2 13:47:05 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137550 for opro ; Thu, 02 Nov 100 13:47:02 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973159305:10:02044:45; Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:01:45 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1001765; 2 Nov 2000 10:01 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27753 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:00:39 GMT Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk (holyrood.ed.ac.uk [129.215.16.14]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27750 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:00:37 GMT Received: from alfred.ed.ac.uk (dialup-99.publab.ed.ac.uk [129.215.38.99]) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA10642 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:59:15 GMT Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 10:00:12 +0000 (GMT) From: Alf Chamings Subject: Re: Export from OVpro 2.6 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <33f5a7164a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Wed 01 Nov, David Graddol wrote: > Alf Chamings wrote: > > >It is probably my inexpert use of GhostScript but there is a > > drawback in that the screen quality is no where near as good as the original, > > but it is perfect when they print it out. > > > > Unless Type 1 postscript fonts are used (and embedded in the > postscript) the fonts will be embedded as 'Type 3'. This makes > them look fairly awful on screen but, as you say, OK when printed > out. If you use Type 1, or restrict yourself to one the 'Base 14' > fonts which are part of any Adobe reader package and therefore > don't need to be embedded (although you will need to map the > riscos names to the Base 14 names in your printer driver) you > will find it all looks perfect on screen as well. The base 14 > fonts are basically Times (Trinity), Helvetica (Homerton), Zapf > Dingabats (Selwyn). > David, thanks for these pointers. I am still going wrong somewhere, though. When I run !FontPrint, it seems to confirm that a range of Acorn fonts are mapped to the appropriate equivalents. In documents I have tried recently I have only used Trinity and Homerton. Other than what it tells me in the !FontPrint window I have no idea what I have to do to map one font to another, so perhaps that is where I have gone wrong. The end result is that my pdfs prduced from OPro via the PScript printer driver and GhostScript are still difficult to read on screen. I would be most grateful if you would spell it out. I suppose this is slightly off topic but it is relevant to the wider use of OPro in the PC world. Regards Alf -- Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh, EH3 9YW, UK tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu Nov 2 13:47:44 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137560 for opro ; Thu, 02 Nov 100 13:47:28 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973160256:20:22589:17; Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:17:36 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2022652; 2 Nov 2000 10:17 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27824 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:05:50 GMT Received: from mserv1b.vianw.co.uk (mserv1b.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.137]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27821 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:05:48 GMT Received: from [194.119.179.59] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1b.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 13rHEQ-000657-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 10:04:26 +0000 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:02:50 +0100 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:01:47 +0000 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: CMYK/composite Message-ID: <9dac14174a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a1715776dtim@de-sig.co.nz> X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Tim King wrote: > Not exactly an OPro prob... > > our local Acorn printer here is trialling a new Xerox C410 laser. Put > a cyan rectangle on the page, postscript it, and when it comes out of > the printer it's a composite colour ie it's kinda muddy and through a > loupe you can see bits of magenta and bits of yellow. > > The *same file* when sent to a NewGen Colorimage 2400 produces a pure > cyan block. > > Start in Xara and print through the PC and it's pure cyan. Export that > file to AW's and print from there - composite. The AW's file in OP - > composite. > > Make a spot colour of 100% cyan - composite. > > He tells me he printed a photo through both the PC and Acorn sides, > and to both the Xerox and NewGen, and all prints looked fine and were > the same. I guess it was an RGB scan. > > So what's the Xerox doing to flat and spot cols? & can we beat it? > Could be the RGB problem. The acorn seems to output RGB composite postscript, so there is obviously some translation between colour models going on which could give rise to the problem you describe. The Xerox is probably being fed with RGB not CMYK and it may be that the way the NewGen handles RGB is different. This RGB problem affects black as well as colours. Black is likely to come out on all separations. Does anyone know what the current state-of-the-art workaround is for composite colour? David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu Nov 2 13:47:45 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137562 for opro ; Thu, 02 Nov 100 13:47:39 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973163345:10:22553:14; Thu, 02 Nov 2000 11:09:05 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1020975; 2 Nov 2000 11:08 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28126 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 10:01:58 GMT Received: from mserv1b.vianw.co.uk (mserv1b.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.137]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28123 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 10:01:56 GMT Received: from [194.119.179.59] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1b.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 13rI6k-0002WZ-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:00:35 +0000 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:59:48 +0100 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:58:44 +0000 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Export from OVpro 2.6 Message-ID: <2ce319174a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Alf Chamings wrote: > On Wed 01 Nov, David Graddol wrote: > > Alf Chamings wrote: > > > > >It is probably my inexpert use of GhostScript but there is a > > > drawback in that the screen quality is no where near as good as the original, > > > but it is perfect when they print it out. > > > > > > > Unless Type 1 postscript fonts are used (and embedded in the > > postscript) the fonts will be embedded as 'Type 3'. This makes > > them look fairly awful on screen but, as you say, OK when printed > > out. If you use Type 1, or restrict yourself to one the 'Base 14' > > fonts which are part of any Adobe reader package and therefore > > don't need to be embedded (although you will need to map the > > riscos names to the Base 14 names in your printer driver) you > > will find it all looks perfect on screen as well. The base 14 > > fonts are basically Times (Trinity), Helvetica (Homerton), Zapf > > Dingabats (Selwyn). > > > David, thanks for these pointers. I am still going wrong somewhere, though. > > When I run !FontPrint, it seems to confirm that a range of Acorn fonts are > mapped to the appropriate equivalents. In documents I have tried recently I > have only used Trinity and Homerton. > > Other than what it tells me in the !FontPrint window I have no idea what I > have to do to map one font to another, so perhaps that is where I have gone > wrong. The end result is that my pdfs prduced from OPro via the PScript > printer driver and GhostScript are still difficult to read on screen. > > I would be most grateful if you would spell it out. I suppose this is > slightly off topic but it is relevant to the wider use of OPro in the PC > world. > This may be a Ghostscript thing. I did just try a quick PDF using ps2pdf and my embedded font came out as Type 3 rather than Type 1. On the other hand, the fonts that were mapped did show up OK in Acrobat on the PC, and also looked OK on screen in RiScript. As far as I know, the mappings were the default ones for the printer driver: Trinity.Medium Map to Times-Roman etc Homerton.Medium Map to Helvetica etc For me this is very much on topic, by the way, - it is about how to interface OvPro with the rest of the world. If you want to mail me one of your PDFs I'll take a look at it in Acrobat on the PC - we have quite a few pre-press tools which will show exactly what is going on. David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri Nov 3 13:45:18 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137623 for opro ; Fri, 03 Nov 100 13:45:16 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973227047:20:08777:14; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 04:50:47 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2128858; 3 Nov 2000 4:50 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA30163 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 03:48:56 GMT Received: from snowy.kiwilink.co.nz (snowy.kiwilink.co.nz [202.27.215.2]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA30160 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 03:48:51 GMT Received: from timk.ns.planet.gen.nz (ppp-55.kiwilink.co.nz [202.27.215.121]) by snowy.kiwilink.co.nz (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id eA34jiE11150 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 17:45:44 +1300 (NZDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Tim King To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 16:18:26 +1200 Subject: Re: CMYK/composite Message-ID: <4a17791356tim@de-sig.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <9dac14174a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> References: <4a1715776dtim@de-sig.co.nz> <9dac14174a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02a (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In article <9dac14174a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk>, David Graddol wrote: > > Could be the RGB problem. The acorn seems to output RGB composite > postscript, a ha. This is what I was fishing for, though I'm still not really clear. This means that there will always be a translation to CMYK *at the printer*? That his problem is that the Xerox is using a different translation table? But the RGB (presumably) scan printed the same on both machines. So they both managed the RGB/CMYK conversion the same. What was different with the cyan rectangle, then? I'm getting confused. > The Xerox is probably being fed with RGB not CMYK What's that 'probably', David? You mean it could contain CMYK too? I've just ps'd 2 rectangles, 1 100% cyan (named spot) & 1 100G 100B (named spot). Both of them rendered as 0 255 255 in the file. > Does anyone know what the current state-of-the-art workaround is for > composite colour? Tim -- Tim King... de-Sig. +64 9 478.3114 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri Nov 3 13:46:24 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137638 for opro ; Fri, 03 Nov 100 13:46:21 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973251514:10:05428:14; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 11:38:34 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1122718; 3 Nov 2000 11:38 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA31275 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 10:32:00 GMT Received: from mserv1e.vianw.co.uk (mserv1e.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.97]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31272 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 10:31:58 GMT Received: from [194.119.179.59] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1e.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.10 #37) id 13rf3G-0006Be-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:30:30 +0000 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 11:10:04 +0100 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 11:09:37 +0000 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: RE: CMYK/composite Message-ID: <46b89e174a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro "Nick Kaijaks" wrote: > Tim King and David Graddol exchanged: > > > Could be the RGB problem. The acorn seems to output RGB composite > > > postscript, > > > > > The Xerox is probably being fed with RGB not CMYK > > > > What's that 'probably', David? You mean it could contain CMYK too? > > I've just ps'd 2 rectangles, 1 100% cyan (named spot) & 1 100G 100B > > (named spot). Both of them rendered as 0 255 255 in the file. > > I think that the only way to get real composite CMYK into RISC OS PostScript > is by embedding in a CMYK EPS. I think that David Pilling's scanning software can generate these > from a real CMYK bitmap, although I have a nasty feeling that you're > probably still stuffed with vector artwork. I think you are right. Importing an artworks file and setting the OvPro picture settings to CMYK makes no difference: the image is exported as RGB. > > I discussed this issue privately with DP a while back, and we came to the > conclusion that another solution would be for OP to roll its own PS for all > images (which would also get around the occasional PS Level 2 problems with > some RIPs). However, that's not an entirely trival job, and there's a pretty > obvious argument that it should be fixed in the OS. However, that's not been > a priority for RISC OS Ltd... Of course, the problem is not just about images. What about OvPro text, lines, spot colours etc? These also export as RGB. How is this conversion to RGB handled by Risc OS, then? I have a complicated workaround for pages which we originated in OvPro and then found we needed to send to the bureau as Quark files. OvPro > PS > distiller (PC). The resultant PDF we were able to edit and switch the colour model using PitStop Pro plug-in (which alone costs more than OvPro itself, I might add). Then export as eps with preview and place in Quark on the Mac. Of course this is both long-winded and uses all three platforms but it might be worth noting that it is not unusual for pre-press work to involve this kind of manipulation. Particularly for files originated in Microsoft products which apparently always export in RGB. (Oh dear). David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri Nov 3 13:46:25 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137639 for opro ; Fri, 03 Nov 100 13:46:22 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973245768:20:19852:17; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 10:02:48 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2018440; 3 Nov 2000 10:02 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA30830 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 08:58:57 GMT Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk [137.205.192.30]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30827 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 08:58:45 GMT Received: from pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@pansy [137.205.192.19]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.10.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id eA39vLH04637 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:57:21 GMT Received: from bashley ([137.205.186.91]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.10.1/8.9.3) with SMTP id eA39vKr02957 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:57:20 GMT From: "Nick Kaijaks" To: Subject: RE: CMYK/composite Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:53:39 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <4a17791356tim@de-sig.co.nz> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Tim King and David Graddol exchanged: > > Could be the RGB problem. The acorn seems to output RGB composite > > postscript, > > > The Xerox is probably being fed with RGB not CMYK > > What's that 'probably', David? You mean it could contain CMYK too? > I've just ps'd 2 rectangles, 1 100% cyan (named spot) & 1 100G 100B > (named spot). Both of them rendered as 0 255 255 in the file. I think that the only way to get real composite CMYK into RISC OS PostScript is by embedding in a CMYK EPS. I think that David Pilling's scanning software can generate these from a real CMYK bitmap, although I have a nasty feeling that you're probably still stuffed with vector artwork. I discussed this issue privately with DP a while back, and we came to the conclusion that another solution would be for OP to roll its own PS for all images (which would also get around the occasional PS Level 2 problems with some RIPs). However, that's not an entirely trival job, and there's a pretty obvious argument that it should be fixed in the OS. However, that's not been a priority for RISC OS Ltd... Later, Nick -- Nick Kaijaks, Pinxit Design - Information Design for Internet and print http://www.kaijaks.co.uk/ mailto:nick@kaijaks.co.uk Disclaimer: caveat internettor -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri Nov 3 13:46:43 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137644 for opro ; Fri, 03 Nov 100 13:46:37 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973248413:20:05669:15; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 10:46:53 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2106676; 3 Nov 2000 10:46 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA31013 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:42:34 GMT Received: from grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.11]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31010 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:42:18 GMT Received: from padua by grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via 1Cust241.tnt17.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.128.241] with SMTP for id LAA25097 (8.8.8/1.19); Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:40:38 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <001601c04582$17ce1260$4d01a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: "Ovation Pro" References: Subject: !FontPrint was:Re: Export from OVpro 2.6 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:37:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 02 Nov 2000, Alf Chamings wrote: > > When I run !FontPrint, it seems to confirm that a range of Acorn fonts are > mapped to the appropriate equivalents. In documents I have tried recently I > have only used Trinity and Homerton. > > Other than what it tells me in the !FontPrint window I have no idea what I > have to do to map one font to another, so perhaps that is where I have gone > wrong. The use of !FontPrint is limited. It is only useful in a kind of one-to-one situation between the composer of the document and the one who has the PostScript output device. The composer of the document lists the fonts used in the document in the window on the left and the exact names of the PostScript fonts -which has to be present in the output device- in the window on the right. Hence, the composer of the document must know, what the printing device supports. Every output device (PostScript printer or a virtual printer like Acrobat) supports the 4 weights of the 3 fontfamilies Times, Helvetica and Courier, or the Acorn equivalents Trinity, Homerton and Corpus. The 2 other supported fonts Dingbats and Symbol don't have to be the same as the Acorn fonts Selwyn and Sydney. The other PostScript fonts listed in !FontPrint are present in PostScript devices, which an extended set of fonts, resident or downloaded with Adobe Type manager. To make use of these PostScript fonts, you must edit the fonts in the left window of !FontPrint, when you use other fonts than listed as default. Example: if you use AvantG instead of Clare, you have to change that. With Acrobat Distiller comes the default set of 14 weights. Mapping to 12 of them is safe. The use of !Fontprint is none or less in this situation. It is even better to remove all the superfluous fonts. However, it can be used to map 'unexpected, not present fonts in documents, that are very difficult to remove' to Courier. This action makes such fonts harmless. Hence, to produce small, reliable PDF documents it is best to restrict the fonts used to Trinity, Homerton and Corpus. If Dingbats is needed, it is best to converts this glyphs to paths. When you want more and better displayed fonts in the PDF files, you have to use RISC OS fonts, that contain a interpreted type1 font inside the fontdirectory. This type1 gets automatically embedded in the PostScript file, when you print your document. How to obtain such fonts? There is the commercial EFF Professional font collection. Only disadvantage is the deviant encoding of EFF fonts, what makes it difficult to use a mixture of standard RISC OS fonts and EFF fonts in cases you want to change the used fonts. Or -if you have PC format Type1's- you can convert these with !T1toFont with the option 'keep PostScript' set to on. This produces a RISC OS fontdirectory, that contains also the needed interpreted Type1. Disadvantage is the lower quality of the produced RISC OS font. This isn't important in case of producing a PostScript document. Using fonts with an appropriate Type1 in the fontdirectory (not needed for Trinity, Homerton and Corpus) results in a PostScript file with Type1s embedded. To behold these fonts in a PDF/Acrobat file, !RiScript can't be used. I don't know about GhostScripts ps2pdf capacibility to keep the embedded fonts in the PDF file. Acrobat Distiller (with the option set to embed the fonts also in the PDF file) can use these fonts, which results in good screen dispaly in Reader or Exchange. The RISC OS PostScript file, with embedded Type1's (or even with converted Type3's), can also be imported in CorelDRAW9 as Interpreted PostScript. Corel offers you a window, where you can substitute/replace the fonts named in the document with installed Truetypes. Multipage documents aren't a problem. It is obvious, that from CorelDRAW there is a wealth of export filters to other Windows formats based on Truetypes. Of course, this is all in general. Every document and every conversion has its specific possible troubles. And there is always the way-out by producing all kinds of bitmap-based output of a document. I think the cross-platform compatibility is greater than expected at first sight. For fonts/typefaces a utility to map RISC OS fonts to/from TrueType would be a big step forward. mrs. Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri Nov 3 13:46:53 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137647 for opro ; Fri, 03 Nov 100 13:46:51 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973250922:20:18617:15; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 11:28:42 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2017664; 3 Nov 2000 11:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA31197 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 10:22:04 GMT Received: from gold.mcis.singnet.com.sg (gold.singnet.com.sg [165.21.74.5]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31194 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 10:21:53 GMT Received: from mail pickup service by gold.mcis.singnet.com.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 19:17:09 +0800 Received: from mx17.singnet.com.sg ([165.21.74.117]) by chromium.mcis.singnet.com.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.387.38); Fri, 3 Nov 2000 18:51:22 +0800 Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk (omega.barnet.ac.uk [194.82.200.3]) by mx17.singnet.com.sg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09088 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 18:54:13 +0800 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA31013 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:42:34 GMT Received: from grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.11]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31010 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:42:18 GMT Received: from padua by grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via 1Cust241.tnt17.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.128.241] with SMTP for id LAA25097 (8.8.8/1.19); Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:40:38 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <001601c04582$17ce1260$4d01a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: "Ovation Pro" References: Subject: !FontPrint was:Re: Export from OVpro 2.6 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:37:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-maillist: ovationpro Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 02 Nov 2000, Alf Chamings wrote: > > When I run !FontPrint, it seems to confirm that a range of Acorn fonts are > mapped to the appropriate equivalents. In documents I have tried recently I > have only used Trinity and Homerton. > > Other than what it tells me in the !FontPrint window I have no idea what I > have to do to map one font to another, so perhaps that is where I have gone > wrong. The use of !FontPrint is limited. It is only useful in a kind of one-to-one situation between the composer of the document and the one who has the PostScript output device. The composer of the document lists the fonts used in the document in the window on the left and the exact names of the PostScript fonts -which has to be present in the output device- in the window on the right. Hence, the composer of the document must know, what the printing device supports. Every output device (PostScript printer or a virtual printer like Acrobat) supports the 4 weights of the 3 fontfamilies Times, Helvetica and Courier, or the Acorn equivalents Trinity, Homerton and Corpus. The 2 other supported fonts Dingbats and Symbol don't have to be the same as the Acorn fonts Selwyn and Sydney. The other PostScript fonts listed in !FontPrint are present in PostScript devices, which an extended set of fonts, resident or downloaded with Adobe Type manager. To make use of these PostScript fonts, you must edit the fonts in the left window of !FontPrint, when you use other fonts than listed as default. Example: if you use AvantG instead of Clare, you have to change that. With Acrobat Distiller comes the default set of 14 weights. Mapping to 12 of them is safe. The use of !Fontprint is none or less in this situation. It is even better to remove all the superfluous fonts. However, it can be used to map 'unexpected, not present fonts in documents, that are very difficult to remove' to Courier. This action makes such fonts harmless. Hence, to produce small, reliable PDF documents it is best to restrict the fonts used to Trinity, Homerton and Corpus. If Dingbats is needed, it is best to converts this glyphs to paths. When you want more and better displayed fonts in the PDF files, you have to use RISC OS fonts, that contain a interpreted type1 font inside the fontdirectory. This type1 gets automatically embedded in the PostScript file, when you print your document. How to obtain such fonts? There is the commercial EFF Professional font collection. Only disadvantage is the deviant encoding of EFF fonts, what makes it difficult to use a mixture of standard RISC OS fonts and EFF fonts in cases you want to change the used fonts. Or -if you have PC format Type1's- you can convert these with !T1toFont with the option 'keep PostScript' set to on. This produces a RISC OS fontdirectory, that contains also the needed interpreted Type1. Disadvantage is the lower quality of the produced RISC OS font. This isn't important in case of producing a PostScript document. Using fonts with an appropriate Type1 in the fontdirectory (not needed for Trinity, Homerton and Corpus) results in a PostScript file with Type1s embedded. To behold these fonts in a PDF/Acrobat file, !RiScript can't be used. I don't know about GhostScripts ps2pdf capacibility to keep the embedded fonts in the PDF file. Acrobat Distiller (with the option set to embed the fonts also in the PDF file) can use these fonts, which results in good screen dispaly in Reader or Exchange. The RISC OS PostScript file, with embedded Type1's (or even with converted Type3's), can also be imported in CorelDRAW9 as Interpreted PostScript. Corel offers you a window, where you can substitute/replace the fonts named in the document with installed Truetypes. Multipage documents aren't a problem. It is obvious, that from CorelDRAW there is a wealth of export filters to other Windows formats based on Truetypes. Of course, this is all in general. Every document and every conversion has its specific possible troubles. And there is always the way-out by producing all kinds of bitmap-based output of a document. I think the cross-platform compatibility is greater than expected at first sight. For fonts/typefaces a utility to map RISC OS fonts to/from TrueType would be a big step forward. mrs. Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri Nov 3 22:56:47 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137679 for opro ; Fri, 03 Nov 100 22:56:45 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973285579:10:17851:14; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 21:06:19 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1123459; 3 Nov 2000 21:06 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA32572 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 20:06:18 GMT Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32569 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 20:06:17 GMT Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 13ro1A-000PIz-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 21:04:56 +0000 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 19:27:58 GMT Message-Id: <137673@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: CMYK/composite X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro The situation is that a program printing (legally) under RISC OS can only output RGB colours, thats because RGB is all thats supported and when you print you pretend to be rendering to the screen anyway. The only situations where you can get PS CMYK output from OP are (a) doing separations (b) if you have an EPS file with CMYK data in it and (c) if you have a CMYK bit map (sprite) and have the latest EPS applet present. As was discussed in the early Summer, Mike Williams talked me into supporting rendering CMYK bit maps direct (as Impression does), and it just happens to be easier to put this code in the EPS applet. OK - it is confusing that the EPS applet should affect rendering of bit maps. David Pilling's scanning software 1.15 (unreleased) can load CMYK sprites and save CMYK EPS. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri Nov 3 22:56:48 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137680 for opro ; Fri, 03 Nov 100 22:56:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973285451:20:09240:14; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 21:04:11 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2009100; 3 Nov 2000 21:04 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA32525 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 20:02:00 GMT Received: from host1.kbnet.co.uk (IDENT:root@host1.kbnet.co.uk [194.168.148.2]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32522 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 20:01:57 GMT Received: from akalat (dialup037.kbnet.co.uk [194.168.148.199]) by host1.kbnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA23647 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 21:01:23 GMT Message-ID: <003101c045d9$16f74ee0$2194a8c2@akalat> From: "Mike Williams" To: References: Subject: Re: CMYK/composite Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 20:43:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R I have followed this thread with interest. In one sense, on platforms like the Mac RGB to CMYK conversion is not an issue - it doesn't happen. For press work everything in Pagemaker, Quark etc has to be set in CMYK, and/or converted into CMYK externally before importing into the document. The fact that the likes of Ovation Pro will convert RGB colours to CMYK separations automatically is a bonus most Mac users would be surprised to encounter. The issues, I think, are twofold, getting good RGB to CMYK conversion where needed, and getting Ovation Pro to output imported CMYK images correctly. The former is down to David Pilling's scanning software, Photodesk and the like and while it can be done I do not have complete faith in the outcome. As far as Ovation Pro is concerned, I believe it will deal correctly with EPS files containg CMYK artwork, and also with imported CMYK sprites using the latest EPS applet. Perhaps David Pilling would confirm this. In work I have done in recent years I would say that I have achieved better results from CMYK scans supplied by a bureau (as TIFFs and converted) than with my own RGB scans then converted to CMYK. But that might just be my scanner. Mike Williams Akalat Publishing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat Nov 4 13:26:12 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137709 for opro ; Sat, 04 Nov 100 13:26:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973306733:20:10121:15; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 02:58:53 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2121981; 4 Nov 2000 2:58 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA00928 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 01:57:58 GMT Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA00920 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 01:57:55 GMT Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 13rtVT-000DJ3-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 02:56:35 +0000 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 02:25:33 GMT Message-Id: <137693@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: CMYK/composite X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro A few more thoughts. You can also get composite CMYK output using Turbo drivers and OPro or Impression. Thats because they do 4 passes and the rendering program understands this. I also believe some of the Spacetech (Photodesk) drivers can spot CMYK sprites and render them specially. I've heard it said there will a new printer driver system from ROSL which may make implementing CMYK output easier. Not sure how realistic that report is though. Finally I wonder if one could glue the PS separations output together with some sort of post processor to get CMYK composite. Or maybe OPro could render the page 4 times with some PS tickytacky thrown in to make it work - how desperate are you... David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat Nov 4 13:27:34 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137731 for opro ; Sat, 04 Nov 100 13:27:32 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973327067:20:10923:14; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 08:37:47 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2124312; 4 Nov 2000 8:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01852 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 07:35:46 GMT Received: from mserv1d.vianw.co.uk (mserv1d.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.96]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01848 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 07:35:42 GMT Received: from [195.102.201.22] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1d.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.10 #36) id 13rymM-0001PG-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 08:34:22 +0000 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 08:10:25 +0100 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 08:09:31 +0000 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: CMYK/composite Message-ID: <5e1112184a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <003101c045d9$16f74ee0$2194a8c2@akalat> X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I was hoping you would dive in to this discusison, Mike. "Mike Williams" wrote: > I have followed this thread with interest. In one sense, on platforms like > the Mac RGB to CMYK conversion is not an issue - it doesn't happen. For > press work everything in Pagemaker, Quark etc has to be set in CMYK, and/or > converted into CMYK externally before importing into the document. The fact > that the likes of Ovation Pro will convert RGB colours to CMYK separations > automatically is a bonus most Mac users would be surprised to > encounter. Except that programs on the Mac - like photoshop - which are used for generating both web graphics and press work - do convert between colour models. So it's a bit sweeping to say that RGB conversion is not an issue on the Mac. > > The issues, I think, are twofold, getting good RGB to CMYK conversion where > needed, Are there respects in which you think OvPro could do better in its RGB to CMYK conversion? Is this an issue about profiles and ink management? > and getting Ovation Pro to output imported CMYK images > correctly. The former is down to David Pilling's scanning software, Photodesk and the > like and while it can be done I do not have complete faith in the > outcome. Except that focusing on the handling of images still leaves the problem of OvPro itself. All the text and line objects are output as RGB postscript - it's not just a problem with the images. So what's the point of having CMYK EPS embedded in a postscript stream which is RGB? > As far as Ovation Pro is concerned, I believe it will deal correctly with > EPS files containg CMYK artwork, and also with imported CMYK sprites using > the latest EPS applet. Perhaps David Pilling would confirm this. > > In work I have done in recent years I would say that I have achieved better > results from CMYK scans supplied by a bureau (as TIFFs and converted) than > with my own RGB scans then converted to CMYK. But that might just be my > scanner. I would have thought the scanner had quite a lot to do with it. There seems to be a big difference between the high-end scanners used by bureau and the lower cost RGB scanners. -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat Nov 4 13:27:36 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137732 for opro ; Sat, 04 Nov 100 13:27:35 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973327086:20:12438:14; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 08:38:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2012315; 4 Nov 2000 8:38 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01851 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 07:35:46 GMT Received: from mserv1d.vianw.co.uk (mserv1d.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.96]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01844 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 07:35:42 GMT Received: from [195.102.201.22] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1d.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.10 #36) id 13rymL-0001PG-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 08:34:21 +0000 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 08:08:21 +0100 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 08:07:39 +0000 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: CMYK/composite Message-ID: <99e511184a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <137693@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro opro@pilling.demon.co.uk (David Pilling) wrote: > > A few more thoughts. > > You can also get composite CMYK output using Turbo drivers and OPro or > Impression. Thats because they do 4 passes and the rendering program > understands this. I'd forgotten about that. Perhaps I'll experiment when I get a chance. > > Finally I wonder if one could glue the PS separations output together > with some sort of post processor to get CMYK composite. Or maybe OPro > could render the page 4 times with some PS tickytacky thrown in to > make it work - how desperate are you... One of the issues for me is a trend in the printing industry towards composite workflows. Separation, and things such as trapping, are increasingly handled by the RIP driving the imagesetter/platemaker rather than the application program. This means that submitting film separations looks increasingly like a 'legacy' approach (they can do it but it might take longer and cost more), and submitting pre-separated postscript isn't much better (although I beleive some printers have clever software which will merge the separations again). David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat Nov 4 13:27:40 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137734 for opro ; Sat, 04 Nov 100 13:27:39 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973333708:20:14083:14; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 10:28:28 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2114447; 4 Nov 2000 10:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02265 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 09:26:22 GMT Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-11.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.21]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02262 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 09:26:20 GMT Received: from [212.238.88.19] (helo=dinkla.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.14 #4) id 13s0VO-0003nJ-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 10:24:58 +0000 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 12:13:57 +0100 (BST) From: Ernst Dinkla Subject: Re: CMYK/composite To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <003101c045d9$16f74ee0$2194a8c2@akalat> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In on Fri 03 Nov, Mike Williams wrote: > I have followed this thread with interest. In one sense, on platforms like > the Mac RGB to CMYK conversion is not an issue - it doesn't happen. For > press work everything in Pagemaker, Quark etc has to be set in CMYK, and/or > converted into CMYK externally before importing into the document. The fact > that the likes of Ovation Pro will convert RGB colours to CMYK separations > automatically is a bonus most Mac users would be surprised to encounter. > > The issues, I think, are twofold, getting good RGB to CMYK conversion where > needed, and getting Ovation Pro to output imported CMYK images correctly. > The former is down to David Pilling's scanning software, Photodesk and the like and while it can > be done I do not have complete faith in the outcome. > > As far as Ovation Pro is concerned, I believe it will deal correctly with > EPS files containg CMYK artwork, and also with imported CMYK sprites using > the latest EPS applet. Perhaps David Pilling would confirm this. > > In work I have done in recent years I would say that I have achieved better > results from CMYK scans supplied by a bureau (as TIFFs and converted) than > with my own RGB scans then converted to CMYK. But that might just be my > scanner. I've seen discussions on comp.publish.prepress and elsewhere where you see that DTP colour control etc is done either by the CMYK numbers of the output device (from experience and supported by good densito/spectrometre readings) or by using RGB up to the last stage and Colorsync or ICM colourcontrol to make the last conversion with the right dedicated ICC profiles for different output devices. The last route is gaining ground fast. The OS or at least the application and printer driver has to support ICC profiles. Lots of hardware and software available to accompany or refine that process. I'm using some of the applications and the hardware. I don't think that there is any envy by Mac users and for that matter by Wintel users about the RGB > CMYK conversions on an RO machine. They have it too and also in the applications that deliver the images to the DTP programs mentioned above. But the main thing is: it is also far superior to what the RO platform is capable of. To go the CMYK route is returning to what used to be practice in DTP work 5 years ago. The introduction of an ICC system in the OS or in Ovation is what is needed and with that a choice of colour spaces to work in. I'm afraid that what RO uses resembles sRGB on other platforms, hardly a space to use for colour control or manipulation and it barely can fit the CMYK space for conversions. Not to mention the embedded colour profiles in EPS files that will not be seen by the RO user at all. David may have quite a tough job to get this all implanted in his Windows version of OP. And most of the DTP, bitmap and vector programs on Wintels have that meanwhile. CorelDraw, Ventura and Framemaker will have that for Linux too, though not on OS level yet. That the CMYK scans have been better in your work flow is most likely the result of a 'good film profile RGB > LAB > press profile CMYK route' the image shop is using. Add that to a possibly better scanner quality. If you do no other image manipulation and the press works like the profile expected it is all right. If the image has to be manipulated (resampled, colour changes etc) and the specs of the output device is not known or has a wider gamut than the traditional CMYK you would prefer to use an RGB image with a wide gamut and do the conversion to CMYK+++ as late as possible and with a device dedicated profile. That is if the colour space you are working in allows it. Ernst -- Ernst Dinkla Serigrafie,Zeefdruk The point will never be metric -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat Nov 4 16:44:24 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137748 for opro ; Sat, 04 Nov 100 16:44:20 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973353916:20:16156:14; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 16:05:16 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2106831; 4 Nov 2000 16:05 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03126 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 15:04:47 GMT Received: from host1.kbnet.co.uk (IDENT:root@host1.kbnet.co.uk [194.168.148.2]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03123 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 15:04:44 GMT Received: from akalat (dialup052.kbnet.co.uk [194.168.148.214]) by host1.kbnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA14156 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 16:04:17 GMT Message-ID: <005901c04677$1da0bda0$2194a8c2@akalat> From: "Mike Williams" To: References: <5e1112184a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> Subject: Re: CMYK/composite Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 15:33:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R >> I have followed this thread with interest. In one sense, on platforms like >> the Mac RGB to CMYK conversion is not an issue - it doesn't happen. For >> press work everything in Pagemaker, Quark etc has to be set in CMYK, and/or >> converted into CMYK externally before importing into the document. The fact >> that the likes of Ovation Pro will convert RGB colours to CMYK separations >> automatically is a bonus most Mac users would be surprised to >> encounter. > >Except that programs on the Mac - like photoshop - which are used >for generating both web graphics and press work - do convert >between colour models. So it's a bit sweeping to say that RGB >conversion is not an issue on the Mac. In the context of this being an Ovation Pro newsgroup, I was comparing dtp experiences between Mac OS and RISC OS. On the Mac most designers I know of work in CMYK and import CMYK artwork. Of course, in Photoshop or similar there is a need to comvert from RGB to CMYK as there is with Photodesk under RISC OS. My impression is that Photoshop copes with this better than Photodesk. >Except that focusing on the handling of images still leaves the >problem of OvPro itself. All the text and line objects are output >as RGB postscript - it's not just a problem with the images. So >what's the point of having CMYK EPS embedded in a postscript >stream which is RGB? So if you define lines or borders in CMYK in Ovation Pro (say 100% K) are you implying that they are still output as RGB separating into all four of CMYK later? I had always assumed that any colours defined in CMYK in Ovation Pro were output as CMYK. It was certainly true in Impression. As far as I can recall View Separations in Ovn Pro produces expected results (usually). Subjectively, Ovn Pro probably could handle RGB to CMYK better. I think a lot is to do with the way in which tints of black are converted, but also with the different gamuts of RGB and CMYK. Whether we should expect Ovn Pro to do better is a different issue. As I said this is not something Quark can handle on a Mac. While I can comment on my experiences in this area I do not have the knowledge to suggest how matters could be improved. Mike Williams Akalat Publishing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat Nov 4 16:44:27 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137750 for opro ; Sat, 04 Nov 100 16:44:25 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973349506:10:28070:14; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 14:51:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1027181; 4 Nov 2000 14:51 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02889 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 13:49:11 GMT Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02881 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 13:49:09 GMT Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 13s4bk-000HQ8-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 14:47:48 +0000 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 13:38:43 GMT Message-Id: <137737@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: CMYK/composite X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R >David may have quite a tough job to get this all implanted in his Windows >version of OP. Another vote for me retiring 8-) Over the years there's been a lot of chat about implementinng colorsync or ICC profiles for RISC OS. We discussed it right at the start of OPro. Various groups have come along and promised they were working on it - including Acorn and ROSL. And of course it has all come to naught. It has been pointed out to me that there are open source implementations of these colour systems, so a port to RISC OS would not be too big a task. However you hit the usual problem, just how many people will use this if it is done. And if I add it to OP will the problem not just move elsewhere like to printers. Mac users will just find another excuse - if you like. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon Nov 6 16:09:42 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137757 for opro ; Mon, 06 Nov 100 16:09:39 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973357523:20:03343:14; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 17:05:23 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2003033; 4 Nov 2000 17:05 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03345 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 16:03:45 GMT Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03337 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 16:03:42 GMT Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 13s6hu-000Od2-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 17:02:18 +0000 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 16:46:10 GMT Message-Id: <137751@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: CMYK/composite X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >So if you define lines or borders in CMYK in Ovation Pro (say 100% K) are >you implying that they are still output as RGB separating into all four of >CMYK later? I had always assumed that any colours defined in CMYK in Ovation >Pro were output as CMYK. As I've said above, true CMYK output is only possible in certain special situations - for lines or borders they would be rendering separations or rendering to a Turbo driver. If you render to composite PS they will be converted to RGB as they have to be (*because RISC OS only supports the RGB colour model*) As far as I know the same applies to Impression - tell me if I'm wrong. Although as with CMYK bit maps it would be possible to fiddle the output PS file to set the colours correctly. Presumeably you go on with such fiddling until you're producing your own PS and none of the Acorn stuff is left. The problem (as has just been pointed out) with a piecemeal approach is that colours in one part of the document won't match those in another. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon Nov 6 16:09:45 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137758 for opro ; Mon, 06 Nov 100 16:09:43 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973357455:10:12412:14; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 17:04:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106153; 4 Nov 2000 17:04 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03346 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 16:03:45 GMT Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03339 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 16:03:42 GMT Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 13s6hy-000Od2-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 17:02:22 +0000 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 16:55:34 GMT Message-Id: <137755@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Page Palette Applet X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I've just installed the page palette applet (in OvnPro 2.60), and wondered >if there is a way to stop it opening it's window when you open a blank >document. I believe you go to !PagePal.Library.PagePal and change int pagepal_toolbox = 1; to int pagepal_toolbox = 0; resave, rerun. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon Nov 6 16:09:45 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137759 for opro ; Mon, 06 Nov 100 16:09:43 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973357588:20:08421:14; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 17:06:28 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2103944; 4 Nov 2000 17:06 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03342 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 16:03:42 GMT Received: from pdbs1-uk0.x-stream.co.uk (pmail1-uk0.x-stream.co.uk [212.139.128.5]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA02536 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 10:53:46 GMT Received: (qmail 8219 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2000 11:51:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO henry) (212.139.34.221) by smtp.x-stream.co.uk with SMTP; 4 Nov 2000 11:51:46 -0000 Message-ID: <009401c04655$acfe8620$dd228bd4@henry> From: "Henry Morgan" To: Subject: Page Palette Applet Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 11:22:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I've just installed the page palette applet (in OvnPro 2.60), and wondered if there is a way to stop it opening it's window when you open a blank document. I have tried closing the palette and then re-saving the default document & the Macros, but when I open a window the page palette window still opens... Any suggestions much appreciated! -- Henry Morgan mailto:henry.morgan@ic.ac.uk WWW: http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ham98/ ** Views stated are mine, and mine only ** -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon Nov 6 16:09:49 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137760 for opro ; Mon, 06 Nov 100 16:09:46 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973359401:10:08121:14; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 17:36:41 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1008004; 4 Nov 2000 17:36 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03665 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 16:35:49 GMT Received: from mserv1d.vianw.co.uk (mserv1d.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.96]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03662 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 16:35:47 GMT Received: from [195.102.201.21] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1d.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.10 #36) id 13s7D0-0005NP-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 17:34:26 +0000 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 17:32:05 +0100 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 17:31:41 +0000 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: CMYK/composite Message-ID: <378945184a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <005901c04677$1da0bda0$2194a8c2@akalat> X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro "Mike Williams" wrote: > So if you define lines or borders in CMYK in Ovation Pro (say 100% K) are > you implying that they are still output as RGB separating into all four of > CMYK later? I had always assumed that any colours defined in CMYK in Ovation > Pro were output as CMYK. It was certainly true in Impression. As far as I > can recall View Separations in Ovn Pro produces expected results (usually). Yes, OvPro will separate correctly, but then it will for images as well. So if you 'view separations' it looks fine. But if you output composite postscript then you are hit by the same RGB problem. Whether RGB black separates to a rich black or 100%K or whatever will depend on the software ultimately doing the CMYK conversion. David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon Nov 6 16:09:50 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137761 for opro ; Mon, 06 Nov 100 16:09:47 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973368281:20:05433:15; Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:04:41 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2005319; 4 Nov 2000 20:04 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04049 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 19:03:11 GMT Received: from host1.kbnet.co.uk (IDENT:root@host1.kbnet.co.uk [194.168.148.2]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04046 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 19:03:09 GMT Received: from akalat (dialup010.kbnet.co.uk [194.168.148.42]) by host1.kbnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA17871 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2000 20:02:44 GMT Message-ID: <007801c04698$678f6d00$2194a8c2@akalat> From: "Mike Williams" To: References: <378945184a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> Subject: Re: CMYK/composite Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 19:49:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Yes, OvPro will separate correctly, but then it will for images >as well. So if you 'view separations' it looks fine. But if you >output composite postscript then you are hit by the same RGB >problem. Whether RGB black separates to a rich black or 100%K or >whatever will depend on the software ultimately doing the CMYK >conversion. Of course - I think I started confusing myself in my previous posting regarding composite and separated PostScript. In that sense I take back what I said, as it really applies to separated output, not composite. Be interesting to know whether Impression does this properly for vector and line work. It certainly ouputs CMYK sprites correctly for composite PostScript. Mike Williams Akalat Publishing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon Nov 6 16:10:53 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137779 for opro ; Mon, 06 Nov 100 16:10:50 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973421428:20:23921:14; Sun, 05 Nov 2000 10:50:28 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2113449; 5 Nov 2000 10:50 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05953 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:46:42 GMT Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05950 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:46:39 GMT Received: from [212.238.88.19] (helo=dinkla.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.14 #2) id 13sNId-00064Q-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 05 Nov 2000 10:45:19 +0000 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 12:44:33 +0100 (BST) From: Ernst Dinkla Subject: Re: CMYK/composite To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <137737@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Sat 04 Nov, David Pilling wrote: > > >David may have quite a tough job to get this all implanted in his Windows > >version of OP. > > Another vote for me retiring 8-) It will be a tough job like writing a DTP program for Windows :-) ICM in Windows was developed in a slow rate with a lot of problems, in fact the first version that really worked was 98SE but it is still not at the Mac level. Conflicts between the application's own colour management and that of the OS are still there. > Over the years there's been a lot of chat about implementinng colorsync or > ICC profiles for RISC OS. We discussed it right at the start of OPro. > Various groups have come along and promised they were working on it - > including Acorn and ROSL. And of course it has all come to naught. > > It has been pointed out to me that there are open source implementations of > these colour systems, so a port to RISC OS would not be too big a task. Yes, there must be open sources if it was just from the international committee itself. What wonders me is why it takes so long for getting the colour management for Linux though. Epson drivers like Gimp-print and the PS drivers are at Windows quality now but still lack the ICC part. They know where to find the sources usually. > However you hit the usual problem, just how many people will use this if > it is done. And if I add it to OP will the problem not just move elsewhere > like to printers. Mac users will just find another excuse - if you like. Mac and Windows users use it for there composite output whether they know it or not. Monitor profiles are installed, printer drivers use hidden profiles for the defaults. Anyone going further has at least the tools to choose other profiles where appropriate. And yes, the learning curve can be steep when custom solutions are needed. But it is all there from the cheapest CorelDraw9 Office upgrade to the RIPs with the profile creators + hardware integrated. And prices are coming down. If there was one path from monitor calibration > scanning > DTP > Postscript output that had that control then it could be done but probably only with existing profiles or custom profiles made on another system. It isn't RO like but I think too much has to be done on bitmap format / colour spaces / interfaces to make it an integrated part of the OS. And in Mac and Windows environments there is a real industry on colour management involved as well. So rewriting OP for Windows and adding ICC to it will be a better idea. Ernst -- Ernst Dinkla Serigrafie,Zeefdruk The point will never be metric -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon Nov 6 21:33:25 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137841 for opro ; Mon, 06 Nov 100 21:33:22 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973540862:20:07562:15; Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:01:02 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2120116; 6 Nov 2000 20:00 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10104 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:55:48 GMT Received: from norwegia.access.ch (mail.access.ch [195.112.71.134]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10101 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:55:46 GMT Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop9-30.access.ch [212.161.130.158]) by norwegia.access.ch (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA12315 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:54:14 +0100 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:38:01 +0100 (GMT) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: Ovation Pro at the show... To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <135987@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: tevens Secretariaat Stichting Van Vredenburch X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro David, I read your message minutes before leaving for GB. > David Holden (APDL) will be selling OP at the show this weekend. > Point being there is a possibility for anyone who wants to demo it > to do so on his stand. There was indeed not a lot of room, nor very much interest. I had one person at APDL's stand. Things were a bit better downstairs at the RiscOs stand. Several computers at times not manned gave me the possibillty to give some demo's/advice to a handful of persons. Even if using an older version I convinced at least 3 persons how good OvPro is and know of 2 that they bought the program. David Holden told me he sold 14 OvPro programs. I did not manage to get data on other sales at the show, although clearly present. David Holden was rather satisfied about the show. I gave him my printed copy of the Index file. Greetings, Jan-Maarten -- JM van Vredenburch tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscPC (ex-Acorn) Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed Nov 8 01:59:02 2000 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137957 for opro ; Wed, 08 Nov 100 01:58:59 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973643864:10:15155:14; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 00:37:44 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1112368; 8 Nov 2000 0:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA13593 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 23:20:06 GMT Received: from twingo.tiscalinet.it (twingo.tiscalinet.it [195.130.224.85]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13580 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 23:20:00 GMT Received: from focus.graphics.tiscalinet.it (62.10.34.46) by twingo.tiscalinet.it; 8 Nov 2000 01:12:56 +0100 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 01:06:16 GMT From: Paolo Rossi To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: CMYK/composite Message-ID: <65a9fa194a.prossi@azzurro.uno.tiscalinet.it> References: <137673@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <137673@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message <137673@pilling.demon.co.uk> opro@pilling.demon.co.uk (David Pilling) wrote: > > The situation is that a program printing (legally) under RISC OS can only > output RGB colours, thats because RGB is all thats supported and when you > print you pretend to be rendering to the screen anyway. > > The only situations where you can get PS CMYK output from OP are (a) doing > separations (b) if you have an EPS file with CMYK data in it and (c) if you > have a CMYK bit map (sprite) and have the latest EPS applet present. > > As was discussed in the early Summer, Mike Williams talked me into supporting > rendering CMYK bit maps direct (as Impression does), and it just happens > to be easier to put this code in the EPS applet. OK - it is confusing that > the EPS applet should affect rendering of bit maps. > > David Pilling's scanning software 1.15 (unreleased) can load CMYK sprites and save CMYK EPS. > What about adopting Truism 2 from Cerilica? It seems wonderful, it works on RISC OS and... it's used by Vantage! When OP will be able to load Vantage files, it will have to correct them in the same way as Vantage does. So what better than using the same CMS? Cheers -- Paolo Rossi -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed Nov 8 13:41:38 2000 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA137964 for opro ; Wed, 08 Nov 100 13:41:36 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 973652309:20:28846:15; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 02:58:29 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2109266; 8 Nov 2000 2:58 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA13979 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 01:56:22 GMT Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.ma