From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 1 13:47:02 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94413 for opro ; Sat, 01 May 99 13:47:01 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925560298:20:27099:16; Sat, 01 May 99 12:04:58 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2120240; 1 May 99 12:04 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA29696 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:49:24 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA29690 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:49:03 +0100 Received: from [158.152.36.33] (helo=beard.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10dYHb-000290-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 1 May 1999 11:50:11 +0000 Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 12:49:25 +0100 (BST) From: Peter Gaunt Subject: Setting H scale from a macro/script To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Somewhat chaotic X-TimeTo2000: 244 days, 12 hours, 10 minutes, 35 seconds X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R I have a need to set the horizontal scale of text from a macro or a script. I can't find any function which will let me do this. Is there one? I thought I'd try using the ddl() function using, say, {scale 0x20000} to set 200% scaling. However, I can't fathom out just what I need to pass to ddl() in order to get it to work; everything I've tried either comes up with errors or just types the entire macro. Any clues gratefully received. -- Pete ==== +44 (0)411 501 757 And how can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter. Woody Allen -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 1 16:40:05 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94430 for opro ; Sat, 01 May 99 16:40:03 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925569855:10:23093:18; Sat, 01 May 99 14:44:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1022995; 1 May 99 14:44 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id PAA29894 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 1 May 1999 15:28:43 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA29886 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 15:28:18 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10dalh-000DYb-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 1 May 1999 14:29:25 +0000 Date: Sat, 01 May 99 15:13:14 GMT Message-Id: <94423@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Setting H scale from a macro/script X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I thought I'd try using the ddl() function using, say, {scale 0x20000} to >set 200% scaling. However, I can't fathom out just what I need to pass to >ddl() in order to get it to work; everything I've tried either comes up with >errors or just types the entire macro. I think its probably easier to set off with a script file that you can double click to run and load into Edit to tweek. One like this; void main(void) { ddl("xx={story {scale 0x20000}}"); } Will set the current scale at the caret. And you can extend it, to write a simple kaboki poem; void main(void) { ddl("xx={story {scale 0x20000} \"bo bo bo\"}"); } Doing these as a macro would mean wrapping them in a pair of { }'s like so; { ddl("xx={story {scale 0x20000} \"bo bo bo\"} "); } David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 1 17:37:39 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94437 for opro ; Sat, 01 May 99 17:37:38 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925575499:20:18851:16; Sat, 01 May 99 16:18:19 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2018763; 1 May 99 16:18 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA30077 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:57:40 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA30072 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:57:28 +0100 Received: from [158.152.123.49] (helo=retreat.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10dcA3-000Jsw-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 1 May 1999 15:58:39 +0000 Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 16:55:17 +0100 (BST) From: Malcolm Cowell Subject: Re: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: Ovation mail list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On Wed 28 Apr, Brian O'Carroll wrote: > In message > Malcolm Cowell wrote: > > In preparing a hymn book there are numerous occurrences of f space Y such > > as "Of Your will.." and "all You are.." etc when using upper case to refer > > to God or Jesus. When kerned, these are unacceptably close. Occurrences of > > "from Your Holy Word" are OK as the preceding letter has no trailing > > ascenders. > > > > My work-around is to replace the space with a hyphen set to transparent as > > in "Of-Your will.." but is there a more elegant way? And could my method > > give potential problems from the print shop? > > You could define a style with 'H. Scale 150%' and a Scope setting of > 'Selection', then select the space netween the two offending words and apply > this style to it. The effect is to widen the space by 50%. > > If you wish to find where this style has been used in a document you can, > since they are otherwise invisible, temporarily set the background colour of > the style to red. > > Brian. Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. This is my favourite but I found the difficulty of "Select-Adjust" selecting the space meant I often scaled the letters too. However it gave me the idea that it is easy to select the space and the Y and if the "Unkern" style is set to Track 100 in the Text submenu this works a treat. Temporarily putting the background to a colour is a great tip too. Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk > with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message > > -- Malcolm Cowell IEng MIIE Python Publishing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 19:34:31 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94445 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 19:34:30 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925608312:10:11592:16; Sun, 02 May 99 01:25:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1124905; 2 May 99 1:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id CAA30862 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:07:23 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA30857 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:07:10 +0100 Received: from [158.152.36.33] (helo=beard.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10dkk6-0003R3-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:08:26 +0000 Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 23:24:04 +0100 (BST) From: Peter Gaunt Subject: Re: Setting H scale from a macro/script To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <94423@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Somewhat chaotic X-TimeTo2000: 244 days, 1 hour, 35 minutes, 56 seconds X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Sat 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > >I thought I'd try using the ddl() function using, say, {scale 0x20000} to > >set 200% scaling. However, I can't fathom out just what I need to pass to > >ddl() in order to get it to work; everything I've tried either comes up with > >errors or just types the entire macro. > > I think its probably easier to set off with a script file that you > can double click to run and load into Edit to tweek. > > One like this; > > void main(void) > { > ddl("xx={story {scale 0x20000}}"); > } Thanks David. I hadn't realised I needed the 'xx=' bit. With a bit of playing around that should do what I want it to. -- Pete ==== +44 (0)411 501 757 When I was kidnapped, my parents snapped into action. They rented out my room. - Woody Allen -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 19:34:57 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94453 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 19:34:55 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925721173:10:01916:16; Mon, 03 May 99 08:46:13 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125719; 3 May 99 8:46 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA32490 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:02:37 +0100 Received: from snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk [137.205.192.31]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA32485 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:02:18 +0100 Received: from pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (pansy [137.205.192.19]) by snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02304 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:02:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from bashley (bashley [137.205.186.91]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA15673 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:02:20 +0100 (BST) From: "Nick Kaijaks" To: Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:01:42 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be953b$2e76cfa0$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro > In on Thu 29 Apr, Tim King wrote: > > > ;-) Except that just puts an unholy gap between the Y and o > and leaves fY > > unchanged. Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. > > The right answer I think. Apply the kerning to two pairs, f-space and > space-Y otherwise there will appear another problen somewhere else. Agreed. The same occurs with the fW pair. My gut feeling is that OPro demonstrates this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. For a good example, try using EFF Griffo (supplied with OPro, isn't it?). Set auto-kerning on and type 'Earl of Warwick, Duke of York'. It's a shame, as EFF metrics are otherwise usually excellent in my experience. Cheers, Nick -- Nick Kaijaks, Pinxit Design - Information Design for Internet and print http://www.kaijaks.co.uk/ mailto:nick@kaijaks.co.uk Disclaimer: caveat internettor -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 19:35:05 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94457 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 19:35:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925577982:20:21351:18; Sat, 01 May 99 16:59:42 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2021160; 1 May 99 16:59 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA30210 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 1 May 1999 17:40:04 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA30205 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 17:39:52 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10dcp2-000N2Z-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:41:00 +0000 Date: Sat, 01 May 99 17:38:54 GMT Message-Id: <94438@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I found the difficulty of "Select-Adjust" selecting the space Try the KSelect applet that lets you select text from the keyboard. >Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send >the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own >fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. Unless you set up the PS printer driver system to download the modified font into the PS file. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 19:35:49 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94473 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 19:35:48 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925676628:20:20404:18; Sun, 02 May 99 20:23:48 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2106281; 2 May 99 20:23 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id UAA31615 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:59:22 +0100 Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA31610 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:59:06 +0100 Received: from [212.238.88.19] (helo=dinkla.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10e2Pf-0002ZG-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:00:31 +0000 Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 20:20:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Ernst Dinkla Subject: Re: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <94438@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Sat 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > >Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send > >the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own > >fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. > > Unless you set up the PS printer driver system to download the modified > font into the PS file. Which is always the best way if you want WYSIWYG. The printers font may have a good kerning where your f Y was kerned wrong or the opposite, your kerning is correct and his wrong ;-) Is your f Y kerning the default kerning? Ernst -- Ernst Dinkla Serigrafie,Zeefdruk The point will never be metric -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 21:41:56 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94500 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 21:41:54 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925843660:10:19822:17; Tue, 04 May 99 18:47:40 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1117987; 4 May 99 18:47 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA01565 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:30:32 +0100 Received: from mailout.access.ch (mailout.access.ch [195.112.71.160]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA01560 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:30:15 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop9-02.access.ch [195.112.93.130]) by mailout.access.ch (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA15103 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 20:30:17 +0200 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:26:36 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <000001be953b$2e76cfa0$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: JMvV: tel +41 41 3706124; fax +41 41 3706120 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 03 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > In on Thu 29 Apr, Tim King wrote: > > > > > ;-) Except that just puts an unholy gap between the Y and o > > and leaves fY > > > unchanged. Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. > > > > The right answer I think. Apply the kerning to two pairs, f-space and > > space-Y otherwise there will appear another problen somewhere else. > > Agreed. > > The same occurs with the fW pair. My gut feeling is that OPro demonstrates > this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper > comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the > fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. > > For a good example, try using EFF Griffo (supplied with OPro, isn't it?). > Set auto-kerning on and type 'Earl of Warwick, Duke of York'. It's a shame, > as EFF metrics are otherwise usually excellent in my experience. > > Cheers, > Nick > Who says EFF Griffo has proper kerning? As stated above: Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. I just tried some examples with other fonts. With at times similar results. If the font has no proper kerning, do not consider OPro guilty. When something is wrong, start checking at the beginning. Not at the end. I hope this helps you to find - and solve - your problem. Greetings JohnvV -- JM van Vredenburch; tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscPC (ex-Acorn) Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) .. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 21:42:47 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94506 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 21:42:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925844626:20:11617:18; Tue, 04 May 99 19:03:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2011470; 4 May 99 19:03 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA01632 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:44:32 +0100 Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA01626 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:44:17 +0100 Received: from netvision.net.il (IDENT:mybg@RAS2-p27.jlm.netvision.net.il [62.0.161.155]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA04721 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 21:44:37 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <372F4055.63A31B34@netvision.net.il> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 21:45:41 +0300 From: Michael Ben-Gershon Organization: My Office X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.7 i686) X-Accept-Language: en-GB, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: > > On Mon 03 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > > In on Thu 29 Apr, Tim King wrote: > > > > > > > ;-) Except that just puts an unholy gap between the Y and o > > > and leaves fY > > > > unchanged. Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. > > > > > > The right answer I think. Apply the kerning to two pairs, f-space and > > > space-Y otherwise there will appear another problen somewhere else. > > > > Agreed. > > > > The same occurs with the fW pair. My gut feeling is that OPro demonstrates > > this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper > > comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the > > fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. > > > > For a good example, try using EFF Griffo (supplied with OPro, isn't it?). > > Set auto-kerning on and type 'Earl of Warwick, Duke of York'. It's a shame, > > as EFF metrics are otherwise usually excellent in my experience. > > > > Cheers, > > Nick > > > > Who says EFF Griffo has proper kerning? > As stated above: Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. > > I just tried some examples with other fonts. With at times similar results. > If the font has no proper kerning, do not consider OPro guilty. When > something is wrong, start checking at the beginning. Not at the end. I agree. For example, the above text is mis-kerned both in Impression Publisher and Ovation Pro. However, using Monotype Baskerville (a wonderful font ...) from Adrian Look, the results in both Impression and OPro are perfect. Michael Ben-Gershon mybg@netvision.net.il -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 21:43:27 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94509 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 21:43:25 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925848954:20:16176:17; Tue, 04 May 99 20:15:54 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2016157; 4 May 99 20:15 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id VAA01845 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 4 May 1999 21:00:51 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA01840 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 21:00:39 +0100 Received: from [158.152.123.49] (helo=retreat.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10elNF-0006dg-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 4 May 1999 20:01:02 +0000 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:58:36 +0100 (BST) From: Malcolm Cowell Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: Ovation mail list In-Reply-To: <000001be953b$2e76cfa0$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 03 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > In on Thu 29 Apr, Tim King wrote: > > > > > ;-) Except that just puts an unholy gap between the Y and o > > and leaves fY > > > unchanged. Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. > > > > The right answer I think. Apply the kerning to two pairs, f-space and > > space-Y otherwise there will appear another problen somewhere else. > > Agreed. > > The same occurs with the fW pair. My gut feeling is that OPro demonstrates > this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper > comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the > fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. > > For a good example, try using EFF Griffo (supplied with OPro, isn't it?). > Set auto-kerning on and type 'Earl of Warwick, Duke of York'. It's a shame, > as EFF metrics are otherwise usually excellent in my experience. > The effect is noticable in EFF Classic with the above examples and with Group of Volunteers (say). Thanks for confirming it is not just me being picky. On Sun 02 May, Ernst Dinkla wrote: > In on Sat 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > >Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send > > >the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own > > >fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. > > > > Unless you set up the PS printer driver system to download the modified > > font into the PS file. > > Which is always the best way if you want WYSIWYG. The printers font may > have a good kerning where your f Y was kerned wrong or the opposite, > your kerning is correct and his wrong ;-) > Is your f Y kerning the default kerning? > > Ernst Yes I see the point if Postscript files are being sent. I can tinker with my fonts and send the result of the tinkering, downloaded. But I am sending the OvPro file itself to a RISCOS friendly printer who will provide the default font which is LOOKsystems Monotype Plantin. Hence I will stick with my special "Unkerning" style and apply it by hand on the few occasions it is needed. (Outlined in a previous message to the list.) Thanks to everyone for comments. -- Malcolm Cowell IEng MIIE Python Publishing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 5 13:58:36 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94543 for opro ; Wed, 05 May 99 13:58:33 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925892106:10:05039:16; Wed, 05 May 99 08:15:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1105296; 5 May 99 8:14 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA02377 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:00:32 +0100 Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk [137.205.192.30]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA02372 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:00:17 +0100 Received: from pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (pansy [137.205.192.19]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22044 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:00:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from bashley (bashley [137.205.186.91]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA02855 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:00:45 +0100 (BST) From: "Nick Kaijaks" To: Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:59:57 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be96cd$445f9750$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro > On Mon 03 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: >> comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the >> fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. >> >> For a good example, try using EFF Griffo (supplied with OPro, isn't it?). >> Set auto-kerning on and type 'Earl of Warwick, Duke of York'. >> It's a shame, as EFF metrics are otherwise usually excellent > Who says EFF Griffo has proper kerning? Define "proper". Besides, I didn't, if you read what I said properly... > As stated above: Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. I have. However, if you have a large font family then it's non-trivial to adjust the kerning throughout. If I must repeat myself, then my point was that it's a shame that Griffo doesn't appear to have been as carefully kerned as some other faces. EFF are usually better than most foundries. Note I made no mention of Monotype... > I just tried some examples with other fonts. With at times > similar results. > If the font has no proper kerning, do not consider OPro guilty. When > something is wrong, start checking at the beginning. Not at the end. "No proper kerning" is a bit of a loose phrase to fire off. Griffo *has* got kerning, which seems fine for most pairs, but not for these ones. The results for fW and fY are in fact much better with kerning turned off. I say nothing about OPro except that I notice mis-kerning more readily than I recall in Impression. This is not meant to be a slur on OPro. Cheers, Nick -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 5 13:59:24 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94553 for opro ; Wed, 05 May 99 13:59:22 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925904592:20:15993:17; Wed, 05 May 99 11:43:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2015143; 5 May 99 11:42 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA02626 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:23:38 +0100 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA02621 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:23:25 +0100 Received: from delink.wxs.nl ([195.121.164.144]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with SMTP id AAB43EF for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:23:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Sprangers To: Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 13:11:06 +0100 Subject: Space before Message-ID: <48fd6e4127delink@news.wxs.nl> User-Agent: Pluto/1.11h (RISC-OS/3.7) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Dear all! For some unsolved reason I didn't receive any OPro mail from April 24 until May 4. So I also didn't receive any answer to a previous question that I posted in that time. I hope, you won't blame me for posting it once more (and ask you to reply once more, sorry!). Here it is: Here's another challenge for script programmers: We all know that a style can be defined with a specified 'Space before'. Now I would like to have an extra option to specify some Space before, UNLESS text containing that style appears at the top position within a frame. In other words: the specified Space before should only affect text, not frame borders. Is it possible to write a simple script to add this option? (I cannot write scripts, so someone else should do it...). Or is there a cunning combination of existing styles that does the job? Very curious about the replies... Kind regards, Paul Sprangers -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 5 15:47:56 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94565 for opro ; Wed, 05 May 99 15:47:55 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925912300:20:16449:16; Wed, 05 May 99 13:51:40 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2101619; 5 May 99 13:50 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id OAA02815 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:35:50 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA02810 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:35:39 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10f1qN-000ANr-0C for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:36:12 +0000 Date: Wed, 05 May 99 14:31:26 GMT Message-Id: <94563@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Space before X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >So I also didn't receive any answer to a previous question that I >posted in that time. I hope, you won't blame me for posting it once more Why not look at the archives, as it happens the last monthly update (on www.beebug.com) neatly contains the messages posted after yours, but you could look at; ftp://freenet.barnet.ac.uk/pub/Acorn/mailing-lists/ovationpro/ which should be updated continuously. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 01:31:54 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94607 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 01:31:52 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925945462:10:22455:19; Wed, 05 May 99 23:04:22 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1128266; 5 May 99 23:03 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id XAA03320 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:51:05 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA03315 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:50:50 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10fASN-000LYp-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:48:07 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:02:20 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: Downloading fonts to PS file (was Unwanted kerning of f Y etc) To: Ovation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sun 02 May, Ernst Dinkla wrote: > In on Sat 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > >Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send > > >the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own > > >fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. > > > > Unless you set up the PS printer driver system to download the modified > > font into the PS file. > > Which is always the best way if you want WYSIWYG. I'm glad you have comfirmed this method of working, Ernst, which I always use, even for very common fonts. Although, someone here suggested that the quality of the print might slightly degrade when downloading fonts. I would be surprised if it did. Can you comment on this? -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 01:31:59 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94609 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 01:31:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925946389:10:07796:16; Wed, 05 May 99 23:19:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007315; 5 May 99 23:18 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id XAA03327 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:52:06 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA03322 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:51:51 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10fAWP-000M0Y-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:52:17 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:02:20 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: Downloading fonts to PS file (was Unwanted kerning of f Y etc) To: Ovation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sun 02 May, Ernst Dinkla wrote: > In on Sat 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > >Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send > > >the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own > > >fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. > > > > Unless you set up the PS printer driver system to download the modified > > font into the PS file. > > Which is always the best way if you want WYSIWYG. I'm glad you have comfirmed this method of working, Ernst, which I always use, even for very common fonts. Although, someone here suggested that the quality of the print might slightly degrade when downloading fonts. I would be surprised if it did. Can you comment on this? -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 01:32:02 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94610 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 01:32:00 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925947264:20:00710:16; Wed, 05 May 99 23:34:24 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2000246; 5 May 99 23:33 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id XAA03340 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:52:36 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA03329 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:52:07 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10fAWj-000M0Y-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:52:35 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:57:58 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: Ovation In-Reply-To: <000001be953b$2e76cfa0$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 03 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > In on Thu 29 Apr, Tim King wrote: > > > > > ;-) Except that just puts an unholy gap between the Y and o > > and leaves fY > > > unchanged. Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. > > > > The right answer I think. Apply the kerning to two pairs, f-space and > > space-Y otherwise there will appear another problen somewhere else. > > Agreed. > > The same occurs with the fW pair. My gut feeling is that OPro demonstrates > this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper > comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the > fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. My guess is that Opro does not interfer with letter spacing, unless requested using enhanced justification. I should have thought that it would simply allow the natural kerning built into the font to decided the amount of spacing. -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 13:35:35 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94620 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 13:35:30 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925988275:10:17499:20; Thu, 06 May 99 10:57:55 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1114045; 6 May 99 10:56 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id LAA04414 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:34:27 +0100 Received: from studict.student.utwente.nl (studict.student.utwente.nl [130.89.220.2]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA04407 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:34:06 +0100 Received: from s9302700.inbel.utwente.nl (ut113097.inbel.utwente.nl [130.89.113.97]) by studict.student.utwente.nl (8.8.6/MQT) with SMTP id MAA02848 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:34:48 +0200 (METDST) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 11:21:47 +0200 (BST) From: "m.m.ottens" Subject: OvnPro -> draw To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <199905052252.XAA03344@omega.barnet.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hello, Is it possible to make an applet which gives you the abbility to select an area in your Ovation Pro document and save it as drawfile? (Like techwriter does) It gives you the ability to export ovation files to another platform using CorelXara for example. I'm aware you will loose information like linked frames etc. But for small files like brochures it will help in your compatibility towards the print-shop. Greetings, Maarten -- \/\/\/\ M.M.Ottens /\/\/\/ O'dd - Ottens' dutch designs \/\/\/\ http://www.futuretrain.com/odd /\/\/\/ +31-(0)73-6135050 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 13:36:13 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94624 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 13:36:12 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925980304:20:04812:16; Thu, 06 May 99 08:45:04 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2003813; 6 May 99 8:44 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA04042 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:24:52 +0100 Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk [137.205.192.30]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA04037 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:24:39 +0100 Received: from pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (pansy [137.205.192.19]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19878 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:25:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from bashley (bashley [137.205.186.91]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14702 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:25:20 +0100 (BST) From: "Nick Kaijaks" To: Subject: RE: Downloading fonts to PS file (was Unwanted kerning of f Y etc) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 09:24:40 +0100 Message-ID: <000201be9799$e329f200$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Alan wrote: > I'm glad you have comfirmed this method of working, Ernst, which > I always use, even for very common fonts. Although, someone here > suggested that the quality of the print might slightly degrade > when downloading fonts. I would be surprised if it did. Can you > comment on this? The only reason might be a result of converting from an Acorn font to a PostScript Type 3 font. Unlike Acorn fonts, these don't use hinting, which could result in a quality degradation on lower-res output devices. It would be unlikely to make much difference on 600dpi printers except at tiny point sizes and would be quite negligible on imagesetters. If you have a Type 1 font saved in the Acorn font directory (either kept whilst converting with!T1ToFont, or bought as one of EFF's 'Publisher' variants), then that'll be downloaded instead and you can be sure that there will be *no* degradation in the glyph quality. Cheers, Nick -- Nick Kaijaks, Pinxit Design - Information Design for Internet and print http://www.kaijaks.co.uk/ mailto:nick@kaijaks.co.uk Disclaimer: caveat internettor -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 13:36:19 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94626 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 13:36:17 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925986109:20:29124:18; Thu, 06 May 99 10:21:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2112925; 6 May 99 10:21 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA04201 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:59:39 +0100 Received: from mail-relay.power.net.uk (mail-relay.power.net.uk [195.60.31.17]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA04196 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:59:23 +0100 Received: from english.powernet.co.uk (natcust24.powernet.co.uk [195.60.5.24]) by mail-relay.power.net.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA18716 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:56:29 +0100 (GMT/BST) Received: from catchline (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Thu, 06 May 1999 10:34:23 +0100 Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 10:35:34 +0100 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: RE: Downloading fonts to PS file (was Unwanted kerning of f Y etc) Message-ID: <1bdae3fd48%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <000201be9799$e329f200$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.40d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro > Alan Muscat wrote: > > > I'm glad you have comfirmed this method of working, Ernst, which > > I always use, even for very common fonts. Although, someone here > > suggested that the quality of the print might slightly degrade > > when downloading fonts. I would be surprised if it did. Can you > > comment on this? Nick Kaijaks wrote: > The only reason might be a result of converting from an Acorn font to > a PostScript Type 3 font. Unlike Acorn fonts, these don't use hinting, > which could result in a quality degradation on lower-res output devices. > It would be unlikely to make much difference on 600dpi printers except > at tiny point sizes and would be quite negligible on imagesetters. I find that there is a thickening of characters at 600 dpi at normal text sizes, which makes the font look slightly emboldened. This is not necessarily a problem, unless you are already using several contrasting weights of the same font (light, semibold etc). However, if you ever intend the files to be viewed on screen (and we increasingly need to prepare Acrobat PDF files) then Type 3 fonts are a disaster. We now avoid the use of any font which we do not have in Type 1 format because sure enough there will be a problem further down the line when we find we need to something else with the same files. David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 13:36:28 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94627 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 13:36:26 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925986735:20:10263:18; Thu, 06 May 99 10:32:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2100262; 6 May 99 10:32 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id LAA04265 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:11:56 +0100 Received: from romeo.ic.ac.uk (romeo.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.9]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA04260 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:11:44 +0100 Received: from juliet.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.4] by romeo.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #1) id 10fL8k-00047w-00; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:12:26 +0100 Received: from icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk ([155.198.3.6]) by juliet.ic.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10fM3v-0005qO-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:11:31 +0000 Received: by icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:12:25 +0100 Message-ID: <773CDF6F1D26D211B0B300A0C9D85B260145F22B@icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk> From: "Reeves-Hall, Peter C." To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Offtopic but desperate! Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 11:12:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi all, Everyone here seems a friendly, helpful bunch (yes I want somethng!) I've been really stupid - I've brought some Artworks files into work to load into CorelXara 2 only to find it only supports artworks eps files (!).... (I'm sure Version 1 supported .art files...) I need to give the drawings to a fiend today in a PC format today (she's handing in corse work tommorrow and I've done the illustrations for her). so was hoping (pretty please) if someone could convert them to artworks eps for me (or I have a 2 hour journey ahead of me (why can't we use acorns around here?!...). There are a dozen files and ziped they are 157Kb total. I/we would be very grateful if anyone could help, Thanks, Peter -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 17:19:47 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94642 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 17:19:44 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925996353:10:10267:19; Thu, 06 May 99 13:12:33 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010184; 6 May 99 13:12 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id NAA04701 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 13:36:55 +0100 Received: from mail.span.ch (mail.span.ch [194.51.197.241]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA04696 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 13:36:40 +0100 Received: from tech ([195.15.70.8]) by mail.span.ch (8.9.2/(Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service 5.5.1960.3)) with SMTP id OAA08989 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 14:37:23 +0200 (MET) Message-ID: <002f01be97bc$6499cf00$08460fc3@tech> From: "richard" To: Subject: Re: Offtopic but desperate! Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 14:22:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id NAB04701 -----Message d'origine----- De : Reeves-Hall, Peter C. =C0 : ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date : jeudi 6 mai 1999 12:45 Objet : Offtopic but desperate! >Hi all, Could do it tonight if thats not too late? Regards Richard -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 17:20:23 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94645 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 17:20:22 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926007088:10:01356:60; Thu, 06 May 99 16:11:28 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1001506; 6 May 99 16:11 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA04923 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:37:53 +0100 Received: from romeo.ic.ac.uk (romeo.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.9]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA04917 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:37:37 +0100 Received: from juliet.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.4] by romeo.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #1) id 10fQEB-0002qM-00; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:38:23 +0100 Received: from icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk ([155.198.3.6]) by juliet.ic.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10fR9N-0006mY-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:37:29 +0000 Received: by icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:38:21 +0100 Message-ID: <773CDF6F1D26D211B0B300A0C9D85B260145F232@icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk> From: "Reeves-Hall, Peter C." To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: artworks help Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 16:38:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi all, A big thanks to everyone who e-mail to offer their services, (and a big thanks to Liam Gretton for doing the conversion). It's nice to be an Acorn user. Sorry about the delay in replying but our network has een up and down like a yo-yo (PC's eh?) all the best, Peter -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 18:28:55 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94653 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 18:28:53 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926008308:10:20676:16; Thu, 06 May 99 16:31:48 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1108536; 6 May 99 16:31 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA04985 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:03:03 +0100 Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA04969 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:02:31 +0100 Received: from 212.8.202.178 (shelley.ucs.de [212.8.202.178]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA32490 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 18:03:10 +0200 Message-Id: <199905061603.SAA32490@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: 06 May 1999 09:07:12 GMT Subject: Re: Downloading fonts to PS file (was Unwanted kerning of f Y etc) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In your earlier message you wrote: >On Sun 02 May, Ernst Dinkla wrote: >> In on Sat 01 May, David Pilling wrote: >> >> > >Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send >> > >the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own >> > >fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. >> > >> > Unless you set up the PS printer driver system to download the modified >> > font into the PS file. >> >> Which is always the best way if you want WYSIWYG. > >I'm glad you have comfirmed this method of working, Ernst, which >I always use, even for very common fonts. Although, someone here >suggested that the quality of the print might slightly degrade >when downloading fonts. I would be surprised if it did. Can you >comment on this? > The quality of fonts is not at all affected by downloading. Guess You remember someone mentioning that GhostScript will turn download-fonts into (ugly) bitmaps when converting PS -> PDF. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 18:28:58 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94654 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 18:28:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926009044:10:01560:20; Thu, 06 May 99 16:44:04 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106719; 6 May 99 16:43 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA04984 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:03:00 +0100 Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (dns1.teuto.net [194.77.23.26]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA04968 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:02:30 +0100 Received: from 212.8.202.178 (shelley.ucs.de [212.8.202.178]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA32505 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 18:03:13 +0200 Message-Id: <199905061603.SAA32505@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: 06 May 1999 09:50:22 GMT Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In your earlier message you wrote: >On Mon 03 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: >> > In on Thu 29 Apr, Tim King wrote: >> > >> > > ;-) Except that just puts an unholy gap between the Y and o >> > and leaves fY >> > > unchanged. Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. >> > >> > The right answer I think. Apply the kerning to two pairs, f-space and >> > space-Y otherwise there will appear another problen somewhere else. >> >> Agreed. >> >> The same occurs with the fW pair. My gut feeling is that OPro demonstrates >> this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper >> comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the >> fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. > Way, way, way is anybody really expecting "fW" or "fY" to kern 'correctly' on the fly ? Talking about kerning we straddle three domains: 1. Proper Software, regarding fonts and processor. You may expect "Yo" to kern correctly here (use OP's "Auto kerning" option). 2. Handicraft, yes, on my planet good kerning is a matter of work. 3. Art, really good kerning is an art, believe me. >My guess is that Opro does not interfer with letter spacing, unless >requested using enhanced justification. I should have thought that it >would simply allow the natural kerning built into the font to decided >the amount of spacing. > From reading the docs I'd say if "Auto kerning" is switched on OP will use kerning information (provided the font has it), otherwise it will use the bounding boxes (now why does the top of an "f" cross its bounding box, think about it...). "Enhanced justification" is to do with beautifying fully aligned blocks of text. It is generally a nice option but may require careful tweaking (as does everything this thread is about). Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 18:29:00 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94655 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 18:28:59 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926009378:10:08757:17; Thu, 06 May 99 16:49:38 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1008705; 6 May 99 16:49 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA05159 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:32:48 +0100 Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (dns1.teuto.net [194.77.23.26]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA04976 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:02:37 +0100 Received: from 212.8.202.178 (shelley.ucs.de [212.8.202.178]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA32526 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 18:03:17 +0200 Message-Id: <199905061603.SAA32526@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: 06 May 1999 14:29:19 GMT Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In your earlier message you wrote: [snip] >> this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper >> comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the Flame me to death for wasting 22k bandwidth but here is the comparison we have been missing. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme ***--- cut here ---*** It said, so I did... As far as I can see the results are identical? My comment on all this would be that OPro and probably Impression, just set a flag for RISC OS when they want a line of text auto kerned. Given that everything else is equal - same font manager, no extra kerning added by hand, then results should be the same. And BTW Martin you've not upgraded your copy of SparkFS... 1.34 now available from my web site. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 13:47:51 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94688 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 13:47:50 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926054635:10:15180:16; Fri, 07 May 99 05:23:55 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1112219; 7 May 99 5:23 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA05906 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 06:04:34 +0100 Received: from zinc.singnet.com.sg (zinc.singnet.com.sg [165.21.7.31]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id GAA05901 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 06:04:19 +0100 Received: from revilo.singnet.com.sg (qtas1413.singnet.com.sg [165.21.52.83]) by zinc.singnet.com.sg (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA23918 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:04:59 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 13:01:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Ian Oliver Subject: Re: Offtopic but desperate! To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <773CDF6F1D26D211B0B300A0C9D85B260145F22B@icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Ian Oliver, (65) 468-0760. X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro > I've been really stupid - I've brought some Artworks files into work to load > into CorelXara 2 only to find it only supports artworks eps files (!).... > (I'm sure Version 1 supported .art files...) If you're still desperate, and get this before I have to go back to work, bung me a thingy and I'll fiddle it about a bit. Gong Xi Fat Choi. Or something. -- Ian Oliver http://members.easyspace.com/toucan/Index.html -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 13:47:58 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94691 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 13:47:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926070541:10:01954:18; Fri, 07 May 99 09:49:01 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1114037; 7 May 99 9:48 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA06277 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:28:24 +0100 Received: from romeo.ic.ac.uk (romeo.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.9]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA06272 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:28:11 +0100 Received: from juliet.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.4] by romeo.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #1) id 10fgwM-0006sI-00; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:29:06 +0100 Received: from icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk ([155.198.3.6]) by juliet.ic.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10fhrY-0005PJ-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:28:12 +0000 Received: by icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:29:05 +0100 Message-ID: <773CDF6F1D26D211B0B300A0C9D85B260145F23C@icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk> From: "Reeves-Hall, Peter C." To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: artworks conversion - sorted! Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:29:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro [REEVES-HALL, PC] Hi all, A big thanks to everyone who e-mail to offer their services, (and a big thanks to Liam Gretton for doing the conversion). It's nice to be an Acorn user. Sorry about the delay in replying but our network has been up and down like a yo-yo (PC's eh?) all the best, Peter -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 13:48:01 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94692 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 13:48:00 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926055662:20:22390:16; Fri, 07 May 99 05:41:02 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2022111; 7 May 99 5:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA05990 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 06:27:50 +0100 Received: from smtp3.xs4all.nl (smtp3.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.53]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id GAA05985 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 06:27:38 +0100 Received: from ecdbv.xs4all.nl (dc2-modem897.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.131.129]) by smtp3.xs4all.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA20022; Fri, 7 May 1999 07:28:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 07:28:22 +0100 (BST) From: Andr van den Berg Subject: Mail them To: revilo@singnet.com.sg cc: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hello, Mail one file to test to us; I think we can cope with it. Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, Andre van den Berg ECD Computers Automatisering / Detachering Patrijsweg 16 2289 EX Rijswijk / The Netherlands Tel. +31(0)70 319 4343 Fax: +31(0)70 319 4963 VATNo: NL009507590B01 ACORN E-mail : ecdbv@xs4all.nl ECD E-mail : avb@ecd.nl PC E-mail : info@ecd.nl Detachering E-mail: detachering@ecd.nl Homepage : http://www.ecd.nl -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 13:48:13 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94696 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 13:48:10 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926071949:20:08531:26; Fri, 07 May 99 10:12:29 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2008505; 7 May 99 10:12 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA06360 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:55:01 +0100 Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA06353 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:54:48 +0100 Received: from [212.238.88.19] (helo=dinkla.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10fhM1-0005mJ-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 7 May 1999 09:55:37 +0000 Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:31:01 +0000 (GMT) From: Ernst Dinkla Subject: RE: Downloading fonts to PS file (was Unwanted kerning of f Y etc) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <1bdae3fd48%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Thu 06 May, David Graddol wrote: > > > Alan Muscat wrote: > > > > > I'm glad you have comfirmed this method of working, Ernst, which > > > I always use, even for very common fonts. Although, someone here > > > suggested that the quality of the print might slightly degrade > > > when downloading fonts. I would be surprised if it did. Can you > > > comment on this? > > > Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > > The only reason might be a result of converting from an Acorn font to > > a PostScript Type 3 font. Unlike Acorn fonts, these don't use hinting, > > which could result in a quality degradation on lower-res output devices. > > It would be unlikely to make much difference on 600dpi printers except > > at tiny point sizes and would be quite negligible on imagesetters. > > I find that there is a thickening of characters at 600 dpi at > normal text sizes, which makes the font look slightly emboldened. > This is not necessarily a problem, unless you are already using > several contrasting weights of the same font (light, semibold > etc). > > However, if you ever intend the files to be viewed on screen > (and we increasingly need to prepare Acrobat PDF files) then Type 3 > fonts are a disaster. We now avoid the use of any font which we > do not have in Type 1 format because sure enough there will be a > problem further down the line when we find we need to something > else with the same files. I try to keep the Type1 of converted fonts. But on the other hand one doesn't get a proper RO font (skeletons, scaffolds) from converted Type1s. Less of a problem with the 19" monitor now, and no problem for 1680 or more dpi imagesetters. And you need a kerning program for the Type1 as well In general the fonts you get on the Bitstream CDs and similar foundries CDs have good kerning, most of the kerning problems are a result of fonts one gets through unofficial channels. People like to adjust their fonts to their own taste but that may not be my taste. And also saving from FontEd will be without kerning! Most of the time I do not need much text, being a silkscreen printer text isn't my bread. But the text I use is large so bad kerning is far more visible. If the font isn't used often and not properly kerned I will adjust it in the text and not in the font. The more often used fonts have got some kerning treatment. That brings me to another point, most kerning software allows you to kern only two characters. In text far more characters play a role. Several years ago I asked Jacques Haubrich to write a kind of kerner that would use an Impression text format with the hand kerning in it to adjust the kerning information of a font. He did that based on an earlier program he wrote that gave some important information from a font in a readable format. So you have an Impression document in a specific font, you hand kern the text in the document where it seems wrong, save it as text and that is used to adjust the font. This is a far more natural approach than kerning the font in pairs outside a text. Due to the nice anti-aliasing of RiscOs you must be aware that your small text will be shifted a bit when rendered, so check the text at several sizes and make a printout before you definitely kern your text. There were some bugs in the software that I couldn't locate so I don't use it anymore and as said text isn't my bread. It has no WIMP and works in a RAM disc. If someone is interested I can send it. Might be worth an overhaul and an adaptation to Ovation Pro if possible. Fonts in PDF are a problem on more platforms than RO. One of the reasons NikNak of 5D is better than Acrobat Distiller is that it handles TrueType and Type1 better in the end product. That next to keeping the hyper text links better and all that at a far lower price. Windows though. Acrobat Distiller 4.0 may become better. Ernst -- Ernst Dinkla Serigrafie,Zeefdruk The point will never be metric -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 14:34:53 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94713 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 14:34:51 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926083772:10:05266:28; Fri, 07 May 99 13:29:32 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1105088; 7 May 99 13:29 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id OAA06652 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:04:36 +0100 Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA06647 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:04:22 +0100 Received: from 212.8.202.178 (shelley.ucs.de [212.8.202.178]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA31091 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:05:15 +0200 Message-Id: <199905071305.PAA31091@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: 07 May 1999 11:30:59 GMT Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In your earlier message you wrote: >In your earlier message you wrote: [snip] >As far as I can see the results are identical? > The same with me. OP's option "Auto kerning" and Imp's "Automatic kerning" were on and seem to be doing the same. >My comment on all this would be that OPro and probably Impression, >just set a flag for RISC OS when they want a line of text auto kerned. >Given that everything else is equal - same font manager, no extra >kerning added by hand, then results should be the same. > To me OP gets kerning absolutely right, although this means mostly that it does not get in the way. Remember Imp moving decimal tabs all over the place if kerning was applied somwhere on the line ? >And BTW Martin you've not upgraded your copy of SparkFS... 1.34 now available >from my web site. > Huh, somebody installed a WebCam over my shoulder ? And I felt good having risen from 1.28(?) to 1.32 just a few weeks back... Thanks for the hint. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 19:02:31 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94726 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 19:02:29 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926094316:10:04092:17; Fri, 07 May 99 16:25:16 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1116768; 7 May 99 16:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA06857 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 17:05:01 +0100 Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA06852 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 17:04:49 +0100 Received: from 212.8.202.178 (shelley.ucs.de [212.8.202.178]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA08583 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:05:46 +0200 Message-Id: <199905071605.SAA08583@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: 07 May 1999 16:02:13 GMT Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In your earlier message you wrote: >In your earlier message you wrote: [snip] >As far as I can see the results are identical? > The same with me. OP's option "Auto kerning" and Imp's "Automatic kerning" were on and seem to be doing the same. >My comment on all this would be that OPro and probably Impression, >just set a flag for RISC OS when they want a line of text auto kerned. >Given that everything else is equal - same font manager, no extra >kerning added by hand, then results should be the same. > To me OP gets kerning absolutely right, although this means mostly that it does not get in the way. Remember Imp moving decimal tabs all over the place if kerning was applied somwhere on the line ? >And BTW Martin you've not upgraded your copy of SparkFS... 1.34 now available >from my web site. > Huh, somebody installed a WebCam over my shoulder ? And I felt good having risen from 1.28(?) to 1.32 just a few weeks back... Thanks for the hint. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 22:44:51 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94745 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 22:44:48 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926108474:10:13644:17; Fri, 07 May 99 20:21:14 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1013560; 7 May 99 20:21 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id UAA07051 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:51:06 +0100 Received: from mailout.access.ch (mailout.access.ch [195.112.71.160]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA07046 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:50:53 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop2-52.access.ch [195.112.73.52]) by mailout.access.ch (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03204; Fri, 7 May 1999 21:51:50 +0200 Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 21:55:42 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: Space before To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <782143fa48%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: JMvV: tel +41 41 3706124; fax +41 41 3706120 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 29 Apr, David Graddol wrote: > Alan Muscat wrote: > > > On Wed 28 Apr, David Graddol wrote: > > > Tony van der Hoff wrote: > > > etc., etc., etc. Snip a lot Dear All, Having followed the discussion of the wanted non existing -extra- space at the beginning of a new page, I start wondering whether it is wished that OP does *not* function/behave in a logical way. If I understand OP correctly, all text is frame based. Meaning that any text is positioned according to what precedes. Be this a line of text or the beginning of a frame, including the main frame. So if you format your base text with a preceding space, the very 1st line will have this extra space. Even on the very first page at the top line!! Actually what you are asking for is a contradiction to what you program the text format to do. Do not forget the automatic text overflow function from page to page. There is an easy solution to avoid the extra space in a similar way as printer setters used to do it some 40 years ago. My solution nowadays with OP (and with Ovation 1.42 as well) is as follows. And very easy to implement with OP if you have the !StylePal activated. Create a new style based on the style where you implemented the "space before", with the same name, but with a minus sign at the end. Program this new style to have no 'Space before'. If your page starts with a heading apply this newly created style to it. Which simply means selecting it from the StylePal window. > Although it would be nice if there was more flexibility in OvPro > in handling space around headings, I think the basic problem is > one of maths! Hence my asking whether there was a standard > way of handling such problems which was regarded as good > typographic practice. I do remember how type-setters used to do this some 40 years ago. Very simple by adding or deleting by hand a slab of lead at the beginning of any page concerned. This most certainly was the standard way. For many, many years... Be glad you need not do this anymore with all the risks of lead poisoning. Greetings JohnvV -- JM van Vredenburch tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscPC (ex-Acorn) Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) .. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 22:44:57 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94748 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 22:44:55 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926111584:20:29409:16; Fri, 07 May 99 21:13:04 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2028886; 7 May 99 21:12 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id UAA07095 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:56:15 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA07090 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:56:05 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10fqk5-0000Nt-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 7 May 1999 19:57:05 +0000 Date: Fri, 07 May 99 19:16:22 GMT Message-Id: <94733@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >>And BTW Martin you've not upgraded your copy of SparkFS... 1.34 now available >>from my web site. > Huh, somebody installed a WebCam over my shoulder ? And I felt >good having risen from 1.28(?) to 1.32 just a few weeks back... By the format of your uucode I guessed which version of software you have... David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 8 14:07:33 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94763 for opro ; Sat, 08 May 99 14:07:32 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926160289:20:11266:16; Sat, 08 May 99 10:44:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2011219; 8 May 99 10:44 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id LAA07855 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:30:32 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA07850 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:30:18 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10g4G8-000I3D-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 8 May 1999 10:27:04 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:51:41 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: Ovation In-Reply-To: <000001be96cd$445f9750$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Wed 05 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > > I just tried some examples with other fonts. With at times > > similar results. > > If the font has no proper kerning, do not consider OPro guilty. When > > something is wrong, start checking at the beginning. Not at the end. > > "No proper kerning" is a bit of a loose phrase to fire off. Griffo *has* > got kerning, which seems fine for most pairs, but not for these ones. > The results for fW and fY are in fact much better with kerning turned off. > I say nothing about OPro except that I notice mis-kerning more readily than > I recall in Impression. This is not meant to be a slur on OPro. I too have been bothered by this and so I did a simple little thing that I have been meaning to do for a while, that is, make a comparison using both OP and IP with the particular typeface where I encounter the problem most: Eric Light from EFF. The result: the problem exists in both programs to the same degree. If you have this typeface try having a word that ends in y with a full stop immediately after it, put in a single space, and then begin the next word with a capital T. You will notice that it looks as though there is no space at all. To wit I shall be emailing EFF for an upgrade to this typeface. -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:19:40 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94784 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:19:39 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926243427:20:19899:25; Sun, 09 May 99 09:50:27 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2128014; 9 May 99 9:50 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA08982 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:37:50 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA08976 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:37:39 +0100 Received: from (193.149.72.249) [193.149.72.249] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10gQ30-0007gq-00; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:38:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Paul) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 9 May 99 10:39:06 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Rhyming Dictionary Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi, Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a Rhyming Dictionary for the RISC PC? I suppose if there is it would be asking too much if it were compatible with Ovation Pro. I'm just lazy really, I get fed up with thumbing through a hard copy version. Paul Hedge -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ paulh@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:19:45 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94786 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:19:43 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926249540:20:17060:16; Sun, 09 May 99 11:32:20 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2016845; 9 May 99 11:32 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA09162 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:21:29 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA09157 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:21:12 +0100 Received: from [158.152.255.214] (helo=g6tsf.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10gRfE-000EeB-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:22:32 +0000 Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 12:17:48 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Shayler Subject: !TransRTF problem..... To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Paul's Computer System X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi All, The only way that I can get !TransRTF to work is via the command line. This is not the way it should work. I have followed the instructions in the release notes, I'm using v1.83 of !TransRTF and OvnPro v2.51. The Filters directory is inside my OvationPro directory. Clicking on the !TransRTF application after opening the Filters directory, then running OvPro and attempting to load RTF files does not work. Any ideas???? -- NO RISC?..........NO FUN!! This message is brought to you by the power of the StrongARM (TM) ACORN SA-RPC using SA-110 processor Paul G6TSF g6tsf@amsat.org -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:19:47 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94787 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:19:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926269906:20:22898:22; Sun, 09 May 99 17:11:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2022478; 9 May 99 17:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA09504 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:59:39 +0100 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA09499 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:59:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 27329 invoked from network); 9 May 1999 17:00:22 -0000 Received: from userbf10.uk.uudial.com (HELO gtwywc97@ukgateway.net) (62.188.142.31) by smtp.dial.pipex.com.128.43.158.in-addr.arpa with SMTP; 9 May 1999 17:00:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 13:13:35 +0100 Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... Message-ID: <48ff7dd3b0rayd@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/1.11k (RISC-OS/3.7) POPstar/2.01b12 Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , Paul Shayler wrote: > The only way that I can get !TransRTF to work is via the command line. > This is not the way it should work. I have followed the instructions in > the release notes, I'm using v1.83 of !TransRTF and OvnPro v2.51. The > Filters directory is inside my OvationPro directory. Clicking on the > !TransRTF application after opening the Filters directory, then running > OvPro and attempting to load RTF files does not work. Any ideas???? Have you set the filetype to RTF before dropping them into Ovation Pro? Cheers, Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:20:01 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94791 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:20:00 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926331728:20:19896:16; Mon, 10 May 99 10:22:08 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2019775; 10 May 99 10:22 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA10638 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:45:20 +0100 Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA10633 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:45:04 +0100 Received: from lingmell.jb.man.ac.uk ([130.88.24.57]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk id 10gmcX-000MRT-00; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:45:10 +0100 Message-Id: <20530.199905100945@lingmell.jb.man.ac.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Contents Applet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:45:07 +0100 From: Roger Noble Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi All, Having finally got tired of doing tables of contents by hand, I have produced a much upgraded and bug-fixed version of Jamie Lawrence's original Contents applet. If anyone else out there is interested, it is now on the OP resources site: http://www1.che.hw.ac.uk/~ovpro Cheers, Roger Noble -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:20:08 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94794 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:20:07 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926337863:20:07851:34; Mon, 10 May 99 12:04:23 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2007392; 10 May 99 12:03 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA10855 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:42:35 +0100 Received: from mutt.eurobell.net (qmailr@mutt.eurobell.net [212.24.65.70]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA10850 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:42:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 17846 invoked from network); 10 May 1999 11:52:45 -0000 Received: from 66-045.cr.access.eurobell.co.uk (HELO pebbles.eurobell.co.uk) (212.24.66.45) by mutt.eurobell.net with SMTP; 10 May 1999 11:52:45 -0000 Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 15:10:14 +0000 From: "Brian O'Carroll" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: I keep crashing v2.50/v2.51 Message-ID: Organization: Pebblesculpt X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60k Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi. When I do the following Ovation v2.50 & v2.51 sometimes hangs... <> CTRL-right-cursor on last line of document <> DELETE The whole thing then hangs and can only be escaped from using an Alt-break to stop OvationPro. Anyone know why/get the same crash? Brian. -- Brian O'Carroll pebbles@eurobell.co.uk http://www.zynet.co.uk/pebbles -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:21:43 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94800 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:21:42 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926241580:10:19319:17; Sun, 09 May 99 09:19:40 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1019186; 9 May 99 9:19 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA08868 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:05:54 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA08863 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:05:41 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10gPWp-00055V-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:05:44 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:51:41 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: Ovation In-Reply-To: <000001be96cd$445f9750$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Wed 05 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > > I just tried some examples with other fonts. With at times > > similar results. > > If the font has no proper kerning, do not consider OPro guilty. When > > something is wrong, start checking at the beginning. Not at the end. > > "No proper kerning" is a bit of a loose phrase to fire off. Griffo *has* > got kerning, which seems fine for most pairs, but not for these ones. > The results for fW and fY are in fact much better with kerning turned off. > I say nothing about OPro except that I notice mis-kerning more readily than > I recall in Impression. This is not meant to be a slur on OPro. I too have been bothered by this and so I did a simple little thing that I have been meaning to do for a while, that is, make a comparison using both OP and IP with the particular typeface where I encounter the problem most: Eric Light from EFF. The result: the problem exists in both programs to the same degree. If you have this typeface try having a word that ends in y with a full stop immediately after it, put in a single space, and then begin the next word with a capital T. You will notice that it looks as though there is no space at all. To wit I shall be emailing EFF for an upgrade to this typeface. -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:22:04 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94806 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:22:03 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926283753:10:13793:22; Sun, 09 May 99 21:02:33 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1018043; 9 May 99 21:02 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id VAA09804 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 9 May 1999 21:41:56 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk (root@irwell.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.48]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA09799 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 21:41:39 +0100 Received: from Dave..zetnet.co.uk (manr-056.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.43.186]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA17371 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 21:42:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 20:50:55 +0100 Subject: Re: Rhyming Dictionary Message-ID: <48ffa7b24fdavefloyd@zetnet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/1.11h (RISC-OS/3.7) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , Paul wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a Rhyming Dictionary for > the RISC PC? I suppose if there is it would be asking too much if it > were compatible with Ovation Pro. I'm just lazy really, I get fed up > with thumbing through a hard copy version. Not a RISC OS one AFAIK but there is an on-line rhyming dictionary at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dougb/rhyme.html Dave -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:22:06 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94807 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:22:05 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926286785:10:03003:19; Sun, 09 May 99 21:53:05 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1002970; 9 May 99 21:52 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA09927 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 9 May 1999 22:34:22 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA09922 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 22:34:10 +0100 Received: from [158.152.151.91] (helo=krowdrah.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10gbEV-0002Ze-0C for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 9 May 1999 21:35:35 +0000 Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 22:33:18 +0100 (BST) From: P Hutton Subject: Path element message? To: Ovation Pro Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Dear All Here is a world first on my computer for this message- I have a file with various draw files, which have taken hours to do. I have not used the file for a month or so now but when I came to look at it this evening, as I scrolled down through it, as I got to page 4 I got an error "Bad Path element"; the window then snaps into the top left hand corner of the screen. When I try dragging out again, it does the same thing- at page 4. I have saved it out as DDL and tried again, but all I go this time was "Draw Verify Failed: CODE 105 at ...." Can anyone shed any light on this, or more importantly tell me how to get round the problem? The document needs to be submitted by the end of the week! MGTIA -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "Only dead fish go with the flow." Attrib. Sarah Craig -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:22:24 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94812 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:22:23 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926360249:10:17708:20; Mon, 10 May 99 18:17:29 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1017383; 10 May 99 18:16 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA11310 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:06:04 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA11305 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:05:52 +0100 Received: from [158.152.255.214] (helo=g6tsf.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10guRF-000B8s-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:06:01 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:01:53 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Shayler Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <48ff7dd3b0rayd@argonet.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Paul's Computer System X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On Sun 09 May, Ray Dawson wrote: > In article , > Paul Shayler wrote: > > The only way that I can get !TransRTF to work is via the command line. > > This is not the way it should work. I have followed the instructions in > > the release notes, I'm using v1.83 of !TransRTF and OvnPro v2.51. The > > Filters directory is inside my OvationPro directory. Clicking on the > > !TransRTF application after opening the Filters directory, then running > > OvPro and attempting to load RTF files does not work. Any ideas???? > > Have you set the filetype to RTF before dropping them into Ovation Pro? > > Cheers, > Yes, thats one of the first things that looked at. RiscOS gets the filetype ok. All very odd. -- NO RISC?..........NO FUN!! This message is brought to you by the power of the StrongARM (TM) ACORN SA-RPC using SA-110 processor Paul G6TSF g6tsf@amsat.org -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 23:04:40 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94858 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 23:04:39 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926372706:20:01336:17; Mon, 10 May 99 21:45:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2001096; 10 May 99 21:44 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA11501 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:30:05 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA11488 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:29:40 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10gxcV-000MD2-0C for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:29:51 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 99 22:26:11 GMT Message-Id: <94840@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >The only way that I can get !TransRTF to work is via the command line. >This is not the way it should work. I suppose there are 2 ways of loading RTF,drag to the icon bar icon, and drag into a document. What you've not told us, is what does happen when you try to load RTF? David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 23:04:41 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94859 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 23:04:39 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926372431:10:10440:18; Mon, 10 May 99 21:40:31 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010290; 10 May 99 21:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA11494 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:29:59 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA11484 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:29:38 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10gxcT-000MD2-0C for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:29:49 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 99 20:05:52 GMT Message-Id: <94838@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Path element message? X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >scrolled down through it, as I got to page 4 I got an error "Bad Path >element"; the window then snaps into the top left hand corner of the screen. >When I try dragging out again, it does the same thing- at page 4. I think I'd be inclined to think that the curve elements of an irregular frame have become corrupt. You might be able to select the frame and use the change shape option. In the light of that its kind of odd that DDL (save+load) then returns an error for a Draw file being corrupt. I suppose an alternative explanation would just be that a Draw file in the document is corrupt. You may be able to hack out the problem one from the DDL. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 11 14:07:16 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94917 for opro ; Tue, 11 May 99 14:07:15 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926400876:10:05966:16; Tue, 11 May 99 05:34:36 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1005886; 11 May 99 5:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA12109 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 06:17:24 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id GAA12104 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 06:17:11 +0100 Received: from (62.188.142.108) [62.188.142.108] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10h4v0-0006lC-00; Tue, 11 May 1999 06:17:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Colin Randall) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 11 May 99 05:38:41 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 10 May 99 (22:26:11), opro@pilling.demon.co.uk wrote: >I suppose there are 2 ways of loading RTF, drag to the icon bar icon, >and drag into a document. > >What you've not told us, is what does happen when you try to load RTF? > Although I did not start this correspondence I am also having the same problem. When I drag an rtf file into a document, nothing happens at all. When it is dragged to the icon bar icon the file is condensed into a garbled line of text on one line. The same rtf file loads into Easiwriter and Publisher without any problems, and the file-type is set to rtf. The !TransRTF file has been put into my !Boot.Resources Directory. Yours, Colin -- Benefice of Hanborough and Freeland http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/carandall The Christian Acorn User Group http://www.acorn.co.uk/developers/explan/ _____________________ carandall@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 11 14:07:33 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94923 for opro ; Tue, 11 May 99 14:07:29 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926414991:10:06723:17; Tue, 11 May 99 09:29:51 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1107102; 11 May 99 9:29 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA12317 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:18:26 +0100 Received: from scrabble.freeuk.net (scrabble.freeuk.net [212.126.144.6]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA12312 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:18:11 +0100 Received: from [212.126.147.152] (helo=dawson) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 10h8gG-0002Ar-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:18:28 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:44:32 +0100 Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... Message-ID: <4900725c1brayd@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/1.11k (RISC-OS/3.7) POPstar/2.01b12 Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , Colin Randall wrote: > On Mon 10 May 99 (22:26:11), opro@pilling.demon.co.uk wrote: > >I suppose there are 2 ways of loading RTF, drag to the icon bar icon, > >and drag into a document. > > > >What you've not told us, is what does happen when you try to load RTF? > > > Although I did not start this correspondence I am also having the same > problem. When I drag an rtf file into a document, nothing happens at > all. When it is dragged to the icon bar icon the file is condensed into > a garbled line of text on one line. The same rtf file loads into > Easiwriter and Publisher without any problems, and the file-type is set > to rtf. The !TransRTF file has been put into my !Boot.Resources > Directory. As one of those for whom it works Ok, my version of TransRTF is 1.83. Just in case my !Run file is different, I've included it below IconSprites .!Sprites Set TransRTF$Dir Set TransRTF$Path . Set FFGServer$TransRTF -T &C32 &B25 -R TransRTF$Dir Set File$Type_C32 RTF Set File$Type_B25 OvPDDL WimpSlot -min 32K -max 32K Run .!Server Cheers, Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 11 19:01:35 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94981 for opro ; Tue, 11 May 99 19:01:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926444289:20:25937:16; Tue, 11 May 99 17:38:09 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2025729; 11 May 99 17:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA12803 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:23:29 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA12798 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:23:14 +0100 Received: from [158.152.255.214] (helo=g6tsf.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10hGFj-000CBw-0C for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:23:35 +0000 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:17:51 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Shayler Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <94840@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Paul's Computer System X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On Mon 10 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > >The only way that I can get !TransRTF to work is via the command line. > >This is not the way it should work. > > I suppose there are 2 ways of loading RTF,drag to the icon bar icon, > and drag into a document. > > What you've not told us, is what does happen when you try to load RTF? > > > > David Pilling Well I've tried both methods in the release notes, no joy with either I'm sorry to say :( -- NO RISC?..........NO FUN!! This message is brought to you by the power of the StrongARM (TM) ACORN SA-RPC using SA-110 processor Paul G6TSF g6tsf@amsat.org -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 11 19:42:41 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94988 for opro ; Tue, 11 May 99 19:42:40 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926446442:10:23528:34; Tue, 11 May 99 18:14:02 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1103502; 11 May 99 18:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA12962 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:00:30 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA12957 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:00:19 +0100 Received: from (193.149.84.249) [193.149.84.249] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10hGpa-0004iu-00; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:00:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Richard Torrens) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:22:53 +0100 X-Organization: 4QD, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.22b Subject: Repro work Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by omega.barnet.ac.uk id TAA12958 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id TAB12962 A bit off topic, but I thought this was the best place to ask. We have been using TJ repro for circuit board artwork from !Vector files.= The quality has been fine but the service has=A0not! Can anyone else do similar artwork repros from !Vector files? We also are loking for someone to print OPro boooklets: quantity is getti= ng a bit too much for the Calligraph! --=20 -------