From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri May 1 13:59:17 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64545 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 01 May 98 13:59:15 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 893990784:10:04176:0; Fri, 01 May 98 03:46:24 BST Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1112394; 1 May 98 3:46 BST Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yV5q0-0007jS-00; Fri, 1 May 1998 03:46:13 +0100 Date: Fri, 01 May 98 03:00:56 GMT Message-Id: <64541@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 News ---- Some small additions to the www.beebug.com web pages !TransIMP 1.00 - Crude attempt to strip ASCII text out of any file. Richard Hallas multi-row button bar. Chemistry 'characterisation data' macros from Stephen Brown. New UKey keyboard module which uses OS calls to track shift keys and is thus more friendly to keyboard enhancer programs, like KeyFix. I have also swopped around the 2.49 and 2.48 upgrades. So 2.49 is accessed from the web pages. This makes 2.49 the official current version, and pushes 2.48 into the background. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From don.lewis@bristol.ac.uk Fri May 1 13:59:29 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64550 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 01 May 98 13:59:26 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894024786:10:00150:0; Fri, 01 May 98 13:13:06 BST Received: from dirc.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.51]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1000005; 1 May 98 13:13 BST Received: from sis.bris.ac.uk by dirc.bris.ac.uk with SMTP-PRIV (PP) with ESMTP; Fri, 1 May 1998 13:09:32 +0100 Received: from dml1.pys.bristol.ac.uk (dml1.pys.bris.ac.uk [137.222.53.82]) by sis.bris.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14513 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 13:08:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:08:22 +0100 (BST) From: "Dr. D. M. Lewis" Subject: Re: Editing Master Pages To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980501.021928.01@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] > > Incidentally, I=91ve noticed that many postings finish > > up like this=20 > > on my mail reader. Can I plead with correspondents - > > don=91t use non-standard ASCII characters, especially the less common ones which ordinary mortals can't translate easily. It wastes everone's time to have to put the message through a decoder if it's not built into the mail-reader. Most of the fancy quotes etc. are not essential, and appearance is just as unimportant for this type of material. Thanks Don Lewis Dr. D. M. Lewis, Bristol. From waddell@which.net Fri May 1 21:11:15 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64579 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 01 May 98 21:11:14 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894051829:05:23623:10; Fri, 01 May 98 19:43:49 GMT Received: from mail1-gui.server.which.net ([194.168.97.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0523611; 1 May 98 19:43 GMT Received: from waddell.which.net ([194.168.100.175]) by mail1-gui.server.which.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with SMTP id AAC9156 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 20:43:35 +0100 Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:01:14 +0100 (BST) From: John Waddell Subject: Sryles and Function Keys To: Ovation mail list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] I have been fairly conservative in my use of styles, sticking with F2 and F4 to give me a choice, including bodytext, of 3 styles. I now find that I wish to define more styles which means I shall probably resort to combination keypresses, as recommended in the manual, such as CTRL/F1. Before I do, out of interest, which keys do other OvPro users set up for styles? -- John Waddell, Langbank, Renfrewshire From renet@ihug.co.nz Sat May 2 15:14:10 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64627 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 02 May 98 15:14:08 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894085453:05:15435:1; Sat, 02 May 98 05:04:13 GMT Received: from cheech.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.9]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1507483; 2 May 98 5:04 GMT Received: from renet.ihug.co.nz (p39-max2.ham.ihug.co.nz [202.49.253.103]) by cheech.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA3 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:08:47 +1200 (GMT) From: Rene Turner Subject: Re: Editing Master Pages To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980502.021406.95@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: Rene H Turner, Hamilton, New Zealand. Ph:+64 7 8435779 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by cheech.ihug.co.nz id RAA30911 On Sat 02 May, "Dr. D. M. Lewis" wrote: >=20 > > > Incidentally, I=3D91ve noticed that many postings finish > > > up like this=3D20 > > > on my mail reader. Can I plead with correspondents - > > > don=3D91t use >=20 > non-standard ASCII characters, especially the less common ones which > ordinary mortals can't translate easily. It wastes everone's time to > have to put the message through a decoder if it's not built into the > mail-reader. Most of the fancy quotes etc. are not essential, and > appearance is just as unimportant for this type of material. >=20 Umm .. i may be able to help with the Upper ASCII... it seems that Marcel changes it if Files Transfer is set to MIME.. and sends it correctly if set to "UUencode" it matters not if you are actually transfering files or not. And i must Disagree with Don... I find it most agravating when my name cannot be spelled correctly because of the loss of Upper ASCII. =20 --=20 May G-d Bless you and Keep you... Ren=E9 Turner ..Survivor 82... Mailto:renet@ihug.co.nz=20 H.I.S. NZ http://www.head-injury.org.nz =20 He has half the deed done who has made a beginning. Horace From robh@argonet.co.uk Sat May 2 15:14:32 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64635 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 02 May 98 15:14:30 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894097482:10:04385:0; Sat, 02 May 98 09:24:42 BST Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1121503; 2 May 98 9:24 BST Received: from (193.130.245.9) [193.130.245.9] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yVXay-00018i-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:24:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Rob Hemmings) To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 1 May 98 (22:26:27 +0100) X-Organization: Argonet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: ArgoNet 'Voyager' Email Program 1.17 : ac Subject: Re: Various Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: On Thu 30 Apr 98 (02:40:22 +0100), David Pilling wrote: > > >From: Max Wall > >>When I bought my copy of Ovation Pro at Acorn World 96, they were >>demonstrating on the Beebug stand a applet for Ovation Pro which did >>graduated fills (like in Artworks) and looked really impressive. > >I have a copy 8-) Seriously I can't see me finishing it now. > >Over the last year, Beebug have sacked all their technical support >staff, >all their salesmen, and all their software staff. Currently there's me, >and there's Sheridan Williams (company director). It's a consequence of >this that I now have no time to spend programming. >If you feel you were promised this applet, email sheridan@beebug.co.uk. >David Pilling Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that a lot of people on this mailing list seemed to agree with the idea of putting money towards the future development of Ovation when I suggested it some time ago. If you remember I suggested an Ovation "supporters club". Despite this we still seem to be getting free upgrades. Free upgrades are obviously very nice to have but not if they eventually mean that the product cannot be developed because it is not making enough money. I'll repeat my comment at the time which is that to ensure continued development of Ovation I am quite happy to contribute an annual fee and would be prepared, if necessary, for larger figures than those mentioned by David last time. I'd particularly suggest the thought that an attractive way of getting people to contribute would be if they could then have some influence on the priority for future developments. -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Rob Hemmings Southport Tel: +44 (0)1704 573210 robh@argonet.co.uk From rayd@argonet.co.uk Sat May 2 15:14:34 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64636 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 02 May 98 15:14:33 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894101811:10:20907:0; Sat, 02 May 98 10:36:51 BST Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1105945; 2 May 98 10:36 BST Received: from (ba67.argonet.co.uk) [193.130.245.31] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yVYin-0001gO-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 10:36:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:15:02 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Sryles and Function Keys In-Reply-To: <19980502.021413.94@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain On 02 May, John Waddell wrote: > I have been fairly conservative in my use of styles, sticking with F2 > and F4 to give me a choice, including bodytext, of 3 styles. > I now find that I wish to define more styles which means I shall probably > resort to combination keypresses, as recommended in the manual, such as > CTRL/F1. > Before I do, out of interest, which keys do other OvPro users set up for > styles? As all the straight function keys are used by OP (ie F3 save, F4 search/replace etc) I use Shift-F1-11 (excepting S-F3 which is save text on mine) for style setup. I used the same Shift-F keys as Publisher used F keys for styles, so S-F1 is Main Heading, S-F2 Sub Heading etc. Ray D -- ===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd From julian@southern.co.nz Sat May 2 18:31:09 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64643 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 02 May 98 18:31:08 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894122020:10:20947:0; Sat, 02 May 98 16:13:40 BST Received: from cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1118054; 2 May 98 16:13 BST Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (ppp137143.netaccess.co.nz [202.37.101.143]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA17099 for ; Sun, 3 May 1998 03:13:00 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Sun,03 May 1998.03:17:45 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 03:11:54 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Spelling Message-ID: <02ffb3f48%julian@illusio.milieu.org.nz> In-Reply-To: <19980425.021739.71@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980425.021739.71@pilling.demon.co.uk> djh39@cam.ac.uk (Dave Hawkins) wrote: > The following sentence exemplifies my problem (it might not make > complete sense): > > I want my dictionaries to include 'words' containing non-alphabetic > characters, i.e. abbreviations with dots, numbers, e.g. Modula-3, or even > spaces for phrases where some of the words do not occur singularly per se. > > On spellchecking this I get questioned about the following errors: > i > e > g > Modula > se > > However, these are correct so I want to add the following different > 'words' to my dictionary, since the above are taken out of context. > i.e. > e.g. > Modula-3 > per se [snip] Personally, I don't like finding "i.e." and "e.g." in written work. I feel they should be `expanded' into what they really mean (there are a few exceptions, such as the likes of IRC). i.e. and e.g. belong in the abbreviations dictionary, not the spelling dictionary. If nothing else it highlights the construction of the sentence, which will often seem more than slightly bizarre. Per se, on the other hand, is a more interesting difficulty. (I wouldn't use `Modula-3', either, but that's 'cause I only really use -'s as hyphens) -- I won't use words again | Faith | May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant |manages| and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said | - JMS | places where you must walk From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Sat May 2 20:01:39 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64665 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 02 May 98 20:01:38 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894133588:10:22341:2; Sat, 02 May 98 19:26:28 BST Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1129048; 2 May 98 19:26 BST Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yVgzQ-0006dA-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:26:24 +0100 Date: Sat, 02 May 98 19:25:35 GMT Message-Id: <64662@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From:(Rob Hemmings) >Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that a lot of people on this mailing >list seemed to agree with the idea of putting money towards the future >development of Ovation when I suggested it some time ago. If you remember I >suggested an Ovation "supporters club". >I'd particularly suggest the thought that an attractive way of getting people >to contribute would be if they could then have some influence on the priority >for future developments. Well yes to all that. I've no problem with and in fact would welcome the idea of setting up a list of proposals for new features that can be voted on, and we'll then add the ones that come top to the program. As to funding. I'll have words with the powers that be. To some extent it comes down to handing over some work like running this list, the web site etc. to someone, along with some money for their trouble. I have heard that someone is proposing setting up a user group (akin to Pipeline for Pipedream) for OPro. From:(Richard Partridge) >In Impression it is possible to set up a style with nothing but the tab leader >string active. Any chance of this in Ovation Pro, if it's easier than the >greatly preferable solution of having the leadering string defined >independently for each tab? Well both are possible. The first is easier of course. Doing both would be a bad thing. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From r.k.partridge@argonet.co.uk Sat May 2 20:01:52 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64668 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 02 May 98 20:01:50 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894135191:10:28850:0; Sat, 02 May 98 19:53:11 BST Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1028635; 2 May 98 19:53 BST Received: from (193.130.250.167) [193.130.250.167] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yVhP8-0007hS-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:52:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Richard Partridge) Reply-To: rkpartridge@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sat, 2 May 98 (18:38:38 +0100) X-Organization: Argonet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: ArgoNet 'Voyager' Email Program 1.08 : ac Subject: Re: More on TABS (was Re: Various) Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: On Fri 1 May 98 (02:19:42 +0100), andy.ling@quantel.com, andy.ling@quantel.com wrote: > >>>>Having played some more, what I really want is for the lead character >>>>to be independent of the ruler. I also wanted to produce something like >>>> >>>>Some text ........... Some more text .............. >>>>Next line ........... More ........................ >>>>^ ^ ^ ^ >>>>1 2 3 4 >[snip..] > >>I'd like to revise my comments on this. Seems to me you can do what >>was wanted now. One problem is that if you just apply a tab effect >>it will be applied to the whole paragraph. So you have to have a >'bodytext' style which has the tab leadering in and which is applied >>to the whole paragraph. Then you have to have another style which >>does not have a leader character and has scope 'selection'. Then >>(laboriously) apply the non-leader style to the gaps. >........ >This worked fine if you enter in exactly what is above and nothing >else. As soon as I tried adding more text, frames, graphics, rulers >etc., etc. it all became very unpredictable. I agree that this works, but the tab positions all have to be identical in both styles, which is a bit awkward if you need to change them. In Impression it is possible to set up a style with nothing but the tab leader string active. Any chance of this in Ovation Pro, if it's easier than the greatly preferable solution of having the leadering string defined independently for each tab? Regards, Richard Partridge. -- r.k.partridge@argonet.co.uk From fccloke@argonet.co.uk Sun May 3 17:53:39 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64741 for ovationp-1 ; Sun, 03 May 98 17:53:38 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-1@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894207601:10:14768:0; Sun, 03 May 98 16:00:01 BST Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1014606; 3 May 98 15:59 BST Received: from (193.130.246.93) [193.130.246.93] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yW0F6-0002Q8-00; Sun, 3 May 1998 15:59:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Mr. F.C. Cloke) Reply-To: fccloke@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-1@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sun, 3 May 98 09:41:57 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: ovation-1@pilling.demon.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Hello There, (again) Ovation - 2.45 (11-Jun-97). Acornuser Isue-194, Version 2.46 is the latest update desktop publishing package -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ fccloke@argonet.co.uk From df.symes@argonet.co.uk Sun May 3 17:53:40 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64742 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 03 May 98 17:53:38 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894188273:12:04532:0; Sun, 03 May 98 09:37:53 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1204463; 3 May 98 9:37 GMT Received: from (193.130.245.80) [193.130.245.80] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yVvDF-0006o1-00; Sun, 3 May 1998 10:37:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: D.A.Symes To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 21:04:30 +0100 Message-ID: <484015f8a0df.symes@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Thesaurus Content-Type: text/plain Hi folks... Don't forget that "!WordWorks" Thesaurus can also be used with Ovation Pro. And while you cannot get words from an OvPro doc into the WW writable icon, unless you write 'em. Words from the Thesaurus can be auto inserted into an Ov Pro doc. I do wish everybody would use the *************** **************** *************** ******************* ************* ************* (insert own expletives if required) Global clipboard in their apps. Cheers Dave S -- _________________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... df.symes@argonet.co.uk Phone/Fax (01202) 432 489 ...Mem...Clan Acorn...Mem...BSFA and others... http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/df.symes News and mail with the help of Pluto V 1.08g From john@g1rcw.demon.co.uk Sun May 3 17:53:46 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64745 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 03 May 98 17:53:44 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894213407:10:22817:0; Sun, 03 May 98 17:36:47 BST Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1022772; 3 May 98 17:36 BST Received: from (g1rcw.demon.co.uk) [193.237.116.170] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yW1ko-0002zc-00; Sun, 3 May 1998 17:36:43 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by g1rcw.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Sun, 03 May 1998 16:36:38 GMT Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 17:36:35 +0100 From: John Chetwynd To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Rotating JPEG's Message-ID: Organization: RiscPC 200MHz X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60h I am note sure that my problem is connected to the fact that I recently upgraded to 2.49 or not. It may well not be a fault at If I create a frame and drop a JPEG into it, everything is OK. If I then try and rotate the frame, it all falls down. Depending "Application may have gone wrong, click continue to try and resume, or quit to stop application" Whatever I do results in a second message "Internal error abort on transfer at &038205C8" After this the computer locks up. If I try and drop a JPEG into an already rotated frame, I get the following error message from OvPro itself: "Transformed JPEG plotting is not supported by this version of the SpriteExtend module" I then have to close the document before I can do anything else, but at least the computer still works! I did RTFM to make sure that what I am doing is not verboten, but could not find anything that says I can't! Am I being a compl My Sprite Extension module appears to be V1.04, and the rest of my set up is a RiscPC SA200 with the new !Boot structure and wi -- John Chetwynd Acorn RiscPC SA200 MHz (A Windoze free zone) From djh39@thor.cam.ac.uk Sun May 3 17:53:46 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64744 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 03 May 98 17:53:41 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894194125:05:22480:4; Sun, 03 May 98 11:15:25 GMT Received: from hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0522450; 3 May 98 11:15 GMT Received: from djh39 (helo=localhost) by hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.91 #1) for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 0yVwjl-0005gd-00; Sun, 3 May 1998 12:15:17 +0100 Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 12:15:16 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Hawkins X-Sender: djh39@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Re: Spelling In-Reply-To: <19980503.020715.01@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Dave Hawkins On Sun, 3 May 1998, Ariancylch wrote: > Personally, I don't like finding "i.e." and "e.g." in written work. I Yes...but only really if you're writing prose. The real point I was making is that it is awkward if you want to do it (and when you've got word limits on your dissertation you want to do it). > feel they should be `expanded' into what they really mean (there are a > few exceptions, such as the likes of IRC). i.e. and e.g. belong in the There are rather a lot of exceptions. I'm a computer scientist, which means there are more than 3^26 abbreviations that I could need to use; it's part of my subject. Here's an example: The construction of a MIB is defined by the SNMP SMI RFC using ASN.1. Admittedly most these don't have punctuation in them, so I can just add them to my normal dictionary. However, if you start expanding things then things become unwieldy: The construction of a Management Information Base is defined by the Simple Network Management Protocol Structure of Information Request For Comments document using Abstract Syntax Notation One. I suspect that there are many other technical subjects where you just have to use the abbreviations because it makes things clearer. > abbreviations dictionary, not the spelling dictionary. > If nothing else it highlights the construction of the sentence, which > will often seem more than slightly bizarre. I'm not sure I agree with you on that one. It might be desirable to highlight to sentence construction, e.g. for emphasis. > > Per se, on the other hand, is a more interesting difficulty. Perhaps only slightly more difficult than the previous problems. In particular 'per' is actually a word so you need to implement some kind of backtracking feature. This problem actually becomes more apparent if you start expanding to get 'id est', etc. > > (I wouldn't use `Modula-3', either, but that's 'cause I only really use > -'s as hyphens) You'd have to if you wanted to talk about it. It's a name of a programming language and the hyphen is part of the name. In fact, this is sort of a bug because the problem is caused by the number (if it was a word the dictionary would accept it). Dave From m.r.devon@bath.ac.uk Sun May 3 17:53:49 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64746 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 03 May 98 17:53:47 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894195825:12:23581:3; Sun, 03 May 98 11:43:45 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk ([138.38.32.2]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0502535; 3 May 98 11:43 GMT Received: (qmail 28030 invoked from network); 3 May 1998 11:43:38 -0000 Received: from mary.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 3 May 1998 11:43:38 -0000 Received: from ppp17-annex.bath.ac.uk by mary.bath.ac.uk id aa10299; 3 May 98 12:43 BST Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:24:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Martin Devon Subject: Re:2.49 upgrade To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980502.021400.11@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: M.R. Devon Consulting Engineer, Bath X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] Before I take the plunge with 2.49, could it please be confirmed that it is suitable for use with a site licenced version 2.46? If yes, can it be applied directly to the installed versions on the client stations, or do I have to upgrade the master floppies and reinstall on each client? Martin Devon Stonar School From kh@waikato.ac.nz Sun May 3 22:52:42 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64761 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 03 May 98 22:52:41 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894227444:10:21581:0; Sun, 03 May 98 21:30:44 BST Received: from xena.cs.waikato.ac.nz ([130.217.241.20]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1021303; 3 May 98 21:30 BST Received: from freja (freja.cs.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.248.25]) by xena.cs.waikato.ac.nz (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA12318 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 08:30:27 +1200 (NZST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Keith Hopper To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 08:29:32 +1200 Message-ID: <48409c192ekh@waikato.ac.nz> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.6 Subject: Subscriptions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 03 May, Rob Hemmings wrote: > Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that a lot of people on this mailing > list seemed to agree with the idea of putting money towards the future > development of Ovation when I suggested it some time ago. If you remember I > suggested an Ovation "supporters club". I don't actually see it as a supporters club, but I would certainly be happy to pay an annual subscription of, say, =A320. kh From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Mon May 4 01:49:45 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64767 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 04 May 98 01:49:44 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894236237:12:21034:0; Sun, 03 May 98 22:57:17 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1507955; 3 May 98 22:57 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yW7h1-0004b0-00; Sun, 3 May 1998 23:57:11 +0100 Date: Sun, 03 May 98 23:55:40 GMT Message-Id: <64764@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From:(Mr. F.C. Cloke) >Ovation - 2.45 (11-Jun-97). >Acornuser Isue-194, Version 2.46 is the latest update desktop publishing >package That was a rather curious story in AU. About 12 months late. If you have 2.45 then you've got to send discs 1 & 2 back to Sheridan Williams at Beebug, he will give you 2.46, and you can then upgrade to 2.49 from the Beebug web site. There are only minute differences between 2.45 and 2.46. From: D.A.Symes >Don't forget that "!WordWorks" Thesaurus can also be used with Ovation Pro. >And while you cannot get words from an OvPro doc into the WW writable >icon, unless you write 'em. Words from the Thesaurus can be auto inserted >into an Ov Pro doc. I've not thought about this, but ISTR that communication between WW and Impression is via the 'impulse' protocol. Well now we have an Impulse applet... From: John Chetwynd >If I create a frame and drop a JPEG into it, everything is OK. If I then >try and rotate the frame, it all falls down. Depending >"Application may have gone wrong, click continue to try and resume, or quit to stop application" >Whatever I do results in a second message "Internal error abort on transfer >at &038205C8" After this the computer locks up. >If I try and drop a JPEG into an already rotated frame, I get the following >error message from OvPro itself: There are 2 issues here. Firstly RISC OS cannot plot rotated JPEG's - so if you try to do that by putting one in a frame and then rotating the image you will fail. The second point is that when you invoke irregular clipping either a genuinly irregular frame or equivalently a rotated rectangular frame, then OPro has to plot the JPEG to a sprite and then subsequnetly plot the sprite to screen. It seems there is a difference between 2.46 and 2.49. There are two ways of plotting a JPEG, either use the simple non-transformed plot routine which will never return an error (but will of course give incorrect results on rotated images), or use the full version which gives an error on rotated JPEG's. 2.46 uses the former strategy, 2.49 the latter. Alas 2.49 compounds this with not handling errors correctly whilst plotting to sprites. I have now fixed this bug. To some extent it doesn't matter because a rotated JPEG is not going to come out right anyway - obvious workaround is to convert to a sprite. From: Martin Devon >Before I take the plunge with 2.49, could it please be confirmed that it >is suitable for use with a site licenced version 2.46? >If yes, can it be applied directly to the installed versions on the client >stations, or do I have to upgrade the master floppies and reinstall on >each client? I can't give you an unequivocal answer to this. Sheridan Williams @ Beebug (sheridan@beebug.co.uk) should know, but since he's still new to the job, he'd probably tell you the same as me. So what I'd say is try it. You'll have to follow the instructios though, and the instructions say you have to install a copy of 2.46 from your release disc onto hard disc and then apply the patch to it. Given this you've nothing to lose - you're *not* going to apply a patch to your existing version. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk Mon May 4 13:57:44 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64803 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 04 May 98 13:57:42 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894275345:12:09684:1; Mon, 04 May 98 09:49:05 GMT Received: from llyr.cee.hw.ac.uk ([137.195.52.200]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0504581; 4 May 98 9:49 GMT Received: by tungat.cee.hw.ac.uk (Smail3.1.28.1 #116) id m0yWHrp-000BkCC; Mon, 4 May 98 10:49 WET DST Message-Id: From:(Matthew Hambley) Subject: Re: Subscriptions To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:48:59 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <19980504.015305.48@pilling.demon.co.uk> from "Keith Hopper" at May 4, 98 01:53:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 988 > On 03 May, Rob Hemmings wrote: > > > Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that a lot of people on this mailing > > list seemed to agree with the idea of putting money towards the future > > development of Ovation when I suggested it some time ago. If you remember I > > suggested an Ovation "supporters club". > > I don't actually see it as a supporters club, but I would certainly be > happy to pay an annual subscription of, say, =A320. ^^^^^ Please don't use this quoted ADCII thing! I might be willing to pay 20ukp which is what you where sugesting but certainly not 320ukp which is what I first read it as. Nearly gave me a heart atack! :-) -- (\/)atthew Hambley ---------------------\ term : ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk \ "What's a network?" holiday : mhambley@arcade.demon.co.uk \ B.Gates, early '80s web : http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceemah/ \---------------------------------- From tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Mon May 4 13:57:48 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64805 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 04 May 98 13:57:47 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for OvationP-L@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894270967:10:13062:2; Mon, 04 May 98 09:36:07 BST Received: from post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.40]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1013041; 4 May 98 9:36 BST Received: from (mk-net.demon.co.uk) [194.222.12.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yWGjA-00061i-00; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:36:05 +0100 Message-ID: <24OE2CA2kKT1EwRf@mk-net.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 18:28:22 +0100 To: Ovation Maillist From: tony van der Hoff Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Subject: 2.49 buglets MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 Just upgraded from 2.48 to 2.49: Open a new document from the icon bar menu. Select 'Sideways'. Save as DDL file. Reload DDL file. 'Sideways' has disappeared. -- Tony van der Hoff | Mailto:tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Buckinghamshire, England | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From ovatnchat@barc.demon.co.uk Mon May 4 13:57:53 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64808 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 04 May 98 13:57:52 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894279642:12:03544:5; Mon, 04 May 98 11:00:42 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1203444; 4 May 98 11:00 GMT Received: from barc.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.11]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1013088; 4 May 98 10:59 GMT Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:35:36 +0100 (BST) From: MikeWilson Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L cc: john@circlesw.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: <19980504.015314.23@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] On Mon 04 May, David Pilling wrote: > From: D.A.Symes > > >Don't forget that "!WordWorks" Thesaurus can also be used with Ovation Pro. > >And while you cannot get words from an OvPro doc into the WW writable > >icon, unless you write 'em. Words from the Thesaurus can be auto inserted > >into an Ov Pro doc. > > > I've not thought about this, but ISTR that communication between WW and > Impression is via the 'impulse' protocol. Well now we have an Impulse > applet... Does that mean that we are nearing the stage when the !Impact range of databases will be able to merge directly into OP? Mike. -- Mike Wilson 0113-253-3722 mike@barc.demon.co.uk Proud to be a member of Wakefield Acorn Computer Group All opinions are mine alone - please do not blame WACG From janvredenb@access.ch Tue May 5 20:03:24 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64855 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 20:03:23 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894355667:10:01637:0; Tue, 05 May 98 09:07:47 BST Received: from atlantica.access.ch ([193.246.40.1]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1129865; 5 May 98 9:07 BST Received: from janvredenb.access.ch by atlantica.access.ch (8.8.5/INA-1.05pri) id KAA22327; Tue, 5 May 1998 10:07:41 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:07:11 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: Sryles and Function Keys To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980503.020709.80@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: JMvV: tel +41 41 3706124; fax +41 41 3706120 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] On Sun 03 May, Ray Dawson wrote: > On 02 May, John Waddell wrote: > > I have been fairly conservative in my use of styles, sticking with F2 > > and F4 to give me a choice, including bodytext, of 3 styles. > snip > > Before I do, out of interest, which keys do other OvPro users set up for > > styles? > > As all the straight function keys are used by OP (ie F3 save, F4 > search/replace etc) I use Shift-F1-11 (excepting S-F3 which is save text > on mine) for style setup. > > I used the same Shift-F keys as Publisher used F keys for styles, so S-F1 > is Main Heading, S-F2 Sub Heading etc. > > Ray D Question and answer are possibly valid but do forget one thing. Several OP applets also use key short-cuts. So it is more important to know which key short-cuts cannot be used for whatever reasons. Be it reserved by OvationPro, be it that someone created an applet with a key short-cut. As I do not have access to all existing applets the question arises whether subscribers to this mailing list can possibly somewhere find an overview of the existing key short-cuts. And possibly whether allocation of such key short-cuts can be coordinated. No. Mr Pilling, I am *not* asking you to do this as well! Comparison with function keys used by Publisher is not realistic. Many Acorn Users have Style. With Style the Shift function keys are used for the zooming factor. Fundamentally one must not try to transfer/copy key short-cuts from one program to another. If the resemblance is too close, Murphy's law will bang you on the head. So accept the differences knowing that with OvationP you have something special! Greetings JMvV -- JM van Vredenburch; tel +41 41 3706125 | Acorn Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) -- JM van Vredenburch; tel +41 41 3706125 | Acorn Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) From kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Tue May 5 20:03:29 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64857 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 20:03:27 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894360982:10:09578:3; Tue, 05 May 98 10:36:22 BST Received: from hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk ([147.143.102.8]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106082; 5 May 98 10:36 BST From: Mr J P Kerslake Date: Tue, 5 May 98 10:36:17 BST Message-Id: <6669.9805050936@hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk> Received: from ajax.sees.bangor.ac.uk by hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk; Tue, 5 May 98 10:36:18 BST To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Upgrade to 2.49 I could not get smart quots to work with 2.49. I have tried going back to my disc & re-loading version 1.02. Is there a more upto date version I should be using? If so where do I get it from. I have recently "emigrated" from yorkshire to north wales. Is there a Welish dictinary available for spellechecker/therasus. Being dysliexic I would find VERRY Verry usefule. John Percy Kerslake B.Sc, F.B.I.S., kerslake@SEES.bangor.ac.uk Webb= http://www.sees.bangor.ac.uk/~kerslake/bio.htm Pager=01426-235878 Dysliexia rules k o My spell checker dosen't work with my mail package I am writing this at work on a sun sparc station From 94crsf@eng.cam.ac.uk Tue May 5 20:06:20 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64891 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 20:06:19 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894360588:05:29030:0; Tue, 05 May 98 09:29:48 GMT Received: from spanner.eng.cam.ac.uk ([129.169.8.9]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1218348; 5 May 98 9:29 GMT Received: from tw700.eng.cam.ac.uk (via 94crsf@tw700.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.16.160]) by spanner.eng.cam.ac.uk with SMTP id KAA21041 for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 10:29:16 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:29:15 +0100 (BST) From: "C.R.S. Fludger" To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Anchored boxes In-Reply-To: <19980504.015314.23@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? I would like to produce documents with pictures |---------------| added at the side of the text. A bit like the | | box that is on the right. (That's if the mail | | system does not change the style of this | | message. ----------------- I can make a new box and drop a picture in, but if the text moves, the box does not. I could also Embed the object but this usually puts the box on a new line. If I don't have the object on a new line, the picture box projects upwards. i.e. ________________ | | | | | | blurb blurb blurb blurb ________________ Can the box be fixed to go downwards and text carry along like the example at the top i.e. anchored just after the word 'pictures'. I have a feeling I am going about this in the wrong way. Hope you can help. from Chris From tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Tue May 5 20:08:44 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64895 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 20:08:43 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for OvationP-L@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894368557:05:17552:19; Tue, 05 May 98 11:42:37 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1210563; 5 May 98 11:42 GMT Received: from (mk-net.demon.co.uk) [194.222.12.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yWg77-0006t3-00; Tue, 5 May 1998 12:42:26 +0100 Message-ID: <4doXfHAurvT1Ewjl@mk-net.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:41:34 +0100 To: Ovation Maillist From: tony van der Hoff Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Subject: Index Applet MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 Does anyone know of a fix for this: When Index creates a new chapter it is based on the last chapter of the document. If the master page for that chapter contains frames, then the index text is placed in the last frame of the page. If the frame is too small, you don't even get to see the index text. How can I get the text to be inserted in the main frame? -- Tony van der Hoff | Mailto:tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Buckinghamshire, England | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From alfchamings@ed.ac.uk Tue May 5 20:08:55 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64897 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 20:08:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894377924:12:11485:16; Tue, 05 May 98 14:18:44 GMT Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk ([129.215.166.17]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0513664; 5 May 98 14:17 GMT Received: from alfred.ed.ac.uk (dialup-132.publab.ed.ac.uk [129.215.38.132]) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA11234 for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 15:17:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:48:34 +0100 (BST) From: Alf Chamings Subject: Re: Subscriptions To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980504.015305.48@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] On Mon 04 May, Keith Hopper wrote: > On 03 May, Rob Hemmings wrote: > >> Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that a lot of people on this >> mailing list seemed to agree with the idea of putting money towards the >> future development of Ovation when I suggested it some time ago. If you >> remember I suggested an Ovation "supporters club". > > I don't actually see it as a supporters club, but I would certainly be > happy to pay an annual subscription of, say, =A320. > How much is =A320? And while we are on the subject, I would much appreciate an explanation of all these '=20' and the like which seem to appear in the middle of words in more and more posts of late. Alf -- mailto:AlfChamings@ed.ac.uk Health and Safety for the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 http://www.med.ed.ac.uk/hew/ for occupational and environmental health From rwatki@argonet.co.uk Tue May 5 22:47:01 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64926 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 22:47:01 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894395427:10:21921:0; Tue, 05 May 98 20:10:27 BST Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106809; 5 May 98 20:10 BST Received: from (193.130.250.211) [193.130.250.211] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yWn6b-0004jM-00; Tue, 5 May 1998 20:10:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Richard Watkinson) Reply-To: rwatki@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 5 May 98 20:09:18 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: Colour Supplement Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: I think I know the answer to this but am just checking. After tinkering about with the colours of an image in Opro am I correct in assuming that the altered image cannot be saved in it's new form? Yes I know I can "grab" it from paint! Richard -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ rwatki@argonet.co.uk From john@camelot.u-net.com Tue May 5 22:47:43 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64930 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 22:47:42 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894397640:05:17599:1; Tue, 05 May 98 19:47:20 GMT Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0517583; 5 May 98 19:47 GMT Received: from camelot.u-net.com [194.119.172.161] by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yWng6-0000Af-00; Tue, 5 May 1998 20:47:05 +0100 Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:48:19 +0100 (BST) From: john Subject: Template fields not found To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] I've just upgraded to 2.49. I know you've covered this before but please can you tell me how to overcome "Template fields not found"? Thanks John W Birkenshaw -- From the Birkenshaw household, Cranleigh From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed May 6 02:02:08 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64940 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 02:02:07 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894404928:12:03079:8; Tue, 05 May 98 21:48:48 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1502346; 5 May 98 21:48 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yWpZp-0004nO-00; Tue, 5 May 1998 22:48:41 +0100 Date: Tue, 05 May 98 22:44:13 GMT Message-Id: <64924@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Mon May 4 13:57:48 1998 >Just upgraded from 2.48 to 2.49: >Open a new document from the icon bar menu. >Select 'Sideways'. >Save as DDL file. Reload DDL file. >'Sideways' has disappeared. It's not a new 2.49 bug. It is wrong, but it doesn't do much harm. From: MikeWilson >Does that mean that we are nearing the stage when the !Impact range of >databases will be able to merge directly into OP? Well the Impulse applet came out in December '97 along with 2.48. So since then you should have been able to use Impact with OPro. >cc: john@circlesw.demon.co.uk However his judgment on the issue is what matters. From: Mr J P Kerslake >I could not get smart quots to work with 2.49. I have tried going back >to my disc & re-loading version 1.02. Is there a more upto date version No, 1.02 is the latest, and... it works. So must be some sort of interaction. >I have recently "emigrated" from yorkshire to north wales. Is there a >Welish dictinary available for spellechecker/therasus. Ah well. I have converted my Spell program to work in Welsh. The catch is that they use a couple of characters not in the standard ranges. I've not yet copied over this extra code to OPro. The person to ask if you want a Welsh spell checker is. >>Colin G. Bennett (Programmer) >>MEU Cymru mailto:Colin@meucymru.co.uk From: "C.R.S. Fludger" >Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? No. From: Alf Chamings >How much is =A320? >And while we are on the subject, I would much appreciate an explanation of >all these '=20' and the like which seem to appear in the middle of words in I believe it's a way of inserting hi bit codes into the standard 7 bit character set. So = A 3 means code 0xA3==163, or a pound sign. I think we'd better draw a veil over further discussion in this direction, because it is off topic. From:(Richard Watkinson) >After tinkering about with the colours of an image in Opro am I correct in >assuming that the altered image cannot be saved in it's new form? Correct. From: john >I've just upgraded to 2.49. I know you've covered this before but >please can you tell me how to overcome "Template fields not found"? Open up !OvnPro and double click on !OvnResDir. If that fails then make sure the new Templates file has been copied over from the patch archive to your copy of 2.49. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From sveinung@medialab.no Wed May 6 13:43:33 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65018 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 13:43:32 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894448381:05:16270:0; Wed, 06 May 98 09:53:01 GMT Received: from ns.medialab.no ([194.234.248.97]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0516236; 6 May 98 9:53 GMT Received: from rambrent.medialab.no ([194.198.124.93]) by ns.medialab.no (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-44413U100L2S100) with SMTP id AAA110 for ; Wed, 6 May 1998 11:52:54 +0200 Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:51:44 +0100 (GMT+1) From:(Sveinung Tengelsen) Subject: Re: Anchored graphic frames To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980506.022157.91@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Network Computing as X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] > From: "C.R.S. Fludger" > >Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? > No. It'd be *massively* useful/timesaving/neat/cool - can it be done at all? Currently, flowing graphics frames are of limited use because of the inability to make text flow around it (like Mr. Fludger illustrated in his original article). Hey David, both Pagemaker (certainly) and Quark (allegedly) can do it (although they don't reach OP to the knees when it comes to frame/text-flow control), wink wink nudge nudge... 8) -- Regards, Sveinung W. Tengelsen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- mailto:pixeleye@sn.no | I have one illusion; http://www.sn.no/~pixeleye/Index.htm | I have no illusions. From djh39@thor.cam.ac.uk Wed May 6 13:43:37 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65020 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 13:43:36 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894450998:05:02662:0; Wed, 06 May 98 10:36:38 GMT Received: from hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1204951; 6 May 98 10:36 GMT Received: from djh39 (helo=localhost) by hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.91 #1) for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 0yX1Yw-00071U-00; Wed, 6 May 1998 11:36:34 +0100 Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:36:34 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Hawkins X-Sender: djh39@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: Dave Hawkins To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Re: Anchored boxes In-Reply-To: <19980506.022116.44@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Dave Hawkins On Wed, 6 May 1998, C.R.S. Fludger wrote: > Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? > > I would like to produce documents with pictures |---------------| > added at the side of the text. A bit like the | | > box that is on the right. (That's if the mail | | > system does not change the style of this | | > message. ----------------- As David said there's no OP feature which does this directly. However, what you could try is to create two embedded frames. The first is for your text and the second is for your graphic. These will then move about together. You'll need to set the text frame's Object->Modify...Inset to 0mm to make the text line up with the rest of the document and play around with the height of the next line to make the spacing look right. It's fiddly but should work. For an example look at http://thor.cam.ac.uk/~djh39/op (bottom of page). Dave From julian@southern.co.nz Wed May 6 13:43:42 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65022 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 13:43:40 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894457447:05:10757:0; Wed, 06 May 98 12:24:07 GMT Received: from [202.37.101.18] ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1505393; 6 May 98 12:23 GMT Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (pppd019.netaccess.co.nz [202.27.186.19]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA20398 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 00:24:23 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Wed,06 May 1998.23:51:05 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 23:47:40 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Subscriptions Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980506.022130.41@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980506.022130.41@pilling.demon.co.uk> alfchamings@ed.ac.uk (Alf Chamings) wrote: > And while we are on the subject, I would much appreciate an > explanation of all these '=20' and the like which seem to appear in > the middle of words in more and more posts of late. Most likely any '=' followed by a two digit (hexadecimal) number you see is caused by the sender using a MIME-Mail/News program. The reason they appear in this list is almost certainly because it's being run by a RISC OS program `MailList' that `helpfully' strips out information in the message header. Unfortunately, it's in the header that messages indicate they should be `MIME-decoded' and so you get to see the icky codes, instead of the proper characters. (For random reference `=20' is ASCII 32 which is a space) -- I won't use words again | Faith | May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant |manages| and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said | - JMS | places where you must walk From julian@southern.co.nz Wed May 6 13:43:45 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65023 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 13:43:43 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894457454:05:10801:1; Wed, 06 May 98 12:24:14 GMT Received: from [202.37.101.18] ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1505465; 6 May 98 12:24 GMT Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (pppd019.netaccess.co.nz [202.27.186.19]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA20403 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 00:24:37 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Thu,07 May 1998.00:02:59 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 23:53:58 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Spelling Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980504.015249.77@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980504.015249.77@pilling.demon.co.uk> djh39@cam.ac.uk (Dave Hawkins) wrote: > On Sun, 3 May 1998, Ariancylch wrote: > > > Personally, I don't like finding "i.e." and "e.g." in written work. I > Yes...but only really if you're writing prose. Personally, I apply it to all my writing :) However, some of this is going to end up being of a similar vein, so I'll keep my mouth shut on the `non-list-relevant' aspects... > > feel they should be `expanded' into what they really mean (there are a > > few exceptions, such as the likes of IRC). i.e. and e.g. belong in the > There are rather a lot of exceptions. I'm a computer scientist, which > means there are more than 3^26 abbreviations that I could need to use; > it's part of my subject. Here's an example: > > The construction of a MIB is defined by the SNMP SMI RFC using ASN.1. Some may consider my views as `splitting hairs', but I view them differently. `RFC' I liken to `kg' or `pt' - both real entities. `i.e.', on the other hand, I would liken to `poss.' (possibly). Again I concede it comes to personal preference as to where the line is drawn - I'm content with `am' and `pm'... > > Per se, on the other hand, is a more interesting difficulty. > Perhaps only slightly more difficult than the previous problems. In > particular 'per' is actually a word so you need to implement some kind of > backtracking feature. This problem actually becomes more apparent if you > start expanding to get 'id est', etc. If the spell-checker can handle hyphenated words (can it?) I'd have thought the extension to cases such as `per se' would be comparatively trivial. > > (I wouldn't use `Modula-3', either, but that's 'cause I only really use > > -'s as hyphens) > You'd have to if you wanted to talk about it. It's a name of a > programming language and the hyphen is part of the name. In fact, this > is sort of a bug because the problem is caused by the number (if it > was a word the dictionary would accept it). I claim that's opinion again: Can I talk about TeX without using a greek font? -- I won't use words again | Faith | May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant |manages| and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said | - JMS | places where you must walk From richard.vardy@argonet.co.uk Wed May 6 13:44:04 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65015 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 13:43:27 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894444635:10:21856:2; Wed, 06 May 98 09:50:35 BST Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1021708; 6 May 98 9:50 BST Received: from (193.130.246.107) [193.130.246.107] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yWztu-000611-00; Wed, 6 May 1998 09:50:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Richard S.Vardy) Reply-To: richard.vardy@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 5 May 98 13:32:33 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: Site licence & 2.49 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: >>Before I take the plunge with 2.49, could it please be confirmed that it >>is suitable for use with a site licenced version 2.46? >.If yes, can it be applied directly to the installed versions on the client >>stations, or do I have to upgrade the master floppies and reinstall on >>each client? >I can't give you an unequivocal answer to this. Sheridan Williams @ Beebug >(sheridan@beebug.co.uk) should know, but since he's still new to the job, >he'd probably tell you the same as me. >So what I'd say is try it. You'll have to follow the instructios though, >and the instructions say you have to install a copy of 2.46 from your >release disc onto hard disc and then apply the patch to it. Given this >you've nothing to lose - you're *not* going to apply a patch to your >existing version. When you upgrade the version goes from 2.46n to 2.48(or 2.49) without the n. I have ran Ovation over the network and it runs. Beebug however, tell me that only version 2.46 is supported until they can test 2.48. -- -- richard.vardy@argonet.co.uk. Risc PC StrongArm USR 28,800 37MB. Washington -Tyne & Wear. From tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Wed May 6 17:41:56 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65041 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 17:41:55 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for OvationP-L@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894464690:10:03745:3; Wed, 06 May 98 14:24:50 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1100937; 6 May 98 14:24 GMT Received: from (mk-net.demon.co.uk) [194.222.12.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yX57j-0004vn-00; Wed, 6 May 1998 15:24:44 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:34:29 +0100 To: Ovation Maillist From: Tony van der Hoff Subject: Nothing to print MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 OPro 2.49 Wwhen printing a multi-chapter double-sided document, with left pages only selected; I frequently get the message "Nothing to Print - Print Cancelled". I can work round this by judiciously selecting a range of pages to print. Selection by trial and error, but mostly based on chapter ranges. It seems the error occurs when the chapter ends on a right-hand page. I recall seeing something in the ml about this before; was there a fix? -- Tony van der Hoff | Mailto:tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Buckinghamshire, England | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Wed May 6 17:42:01 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65044 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 17:41:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894464740:12:04762:16; Wed, 06 May 98 14:25:40 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1204753; 6 May 98 14:25 GMT Received: from (mk-net.demon.co.uk) [194.222.12.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yX58N-0004yn-00; Wed, 6 May 1998 15:25:25 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:21:10 +0100 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk From: Tony van der Hoff Subject: Re: In-Reply-To: <19980506.022157.91@pilling.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 In message <19980506.022157.91@pilling.demon.co.uk>, ?@?.? writes >>Just upgraded from 2.48 to 2.49: >>Open a new document from the icon bar menu. >>Select 'Sideways'. >>Save as DDL file. Reload DDL file. >>'Sideways' has disappeared. > >It's not a new 2.49 bug. It is wrong, but it doesn't do much harm. > Ah... Message-ID: <19980412.005830.08@pilling.demon.co.uk> >>BTW is v2.49 still a test version? >I'm aware of no bugs. :-) Harmless, yes. Just thought you might like to know about it... -- Tony van der Hoff | Mailto:tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Buckinghamshire, England | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From df.symes@argonet.co.uk Wed May 6 18:51:48 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65077 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 18:51:47 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894476711:10:19946:1; Wed, 06 May 98 17:45:11 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1103832; 6 May 98 17:44 GMT Received: from (193.130.245.235) [193.130.245.235] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yX8FS-0007L3-00; Wed, 6 May 1998 18:44:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: D.A.Symes To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 18:44:17 +0100 Message-ID: <4842187a7edf.symes@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Index Applet In-Reply-To: <19980506.022123.52@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 06 May, tony van der Hoff wrote: > Does anyone know of a fix for this: > When Index creates a new chapter it is based on the last chapter of the > document. If the master page for that chapter contains frames, then the > index text is placed in the last frame of the page. If the frame is too > small, you don't even get to see the index text. How can I get the text > to be inserted in the main frame? Hi Tony, A quick note about your problem above... Before creating the Index. Add a new chapter after the last one in your document. Then go to Menu-Page-Edit Master pages (^E) The last masterpage should be the one that relates to this last added chapter. Remove any headers, footers etc. Close the master page and do the Index business, you should be okay. The Index will now create itself in a new chapter, after the one you've just created. (Leaving a blank chapter between the last page of the document and the index). The blank chapter can now be deleted. Works for me. But test it before you try it on anything important. Not the most elegant solution, but it was the best I could come up with when I first started using the Index applet ages ago. cheers Dave S -- _________________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... df.symes@argonet.co.uk Phone/Fax (01202) 432 489 ...Mem...Clan Acorn...Mem...BSFA and others... http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/df.symes News and mail with the help of Pluto V 1.08g From jack@snave.demon.co.uk Wed May 6 18:52:40 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65079 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 18:52:39 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894476863:05:08440:3; Wed, 06 May 98 17:47:43 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1223608; 6 May 98 17:47 GMT Received: from snave.demon.co.uk ([158.152.89.120]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1005823; 6 May 98 17:46 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jack Evans To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:09:44 +0100 Message-ID: <48418bfc68jack@snave.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Subscriptions In-Reply-To: <19980504.015305.48@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 04 May, Keith Hopper wrote: > On 03 May, Rob Hemmings wrote: > > Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that a lot of people on this mailing > > list seemed to agree with the idea of putting money towards the future > > development of Ovation when I suggested it some time ago. If you remember I > > suggested an Ovation "supporters club". > I don't actually see it as a supporters club, but I would certainly be > happy to pay an annual subscription of, say, =A320. Whether a supporters club or not, the first priority is to make sure that OPro does not die of cash starvation. I would certainly support an annual payment of say 20ukp (if that's the correct translation of =A320, as I received it) as one solution. -- Jack Evans mailto: jack@snave.demon.co.uk From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed May 6 19:35:17 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65087 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 19:35:15 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894477154:10:28553:0; Wed, 06 May 98 17:52:34 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1028477; 6 May 98 17:52 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yX8Mk-0003od-00; Wed, 6 May 1998 18:52:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 06 May 98 18:34:34 GMT Message-Id: <65075@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: Tony van der Hoff >Wwhen printing a multi-chapter double-sided document, with left pages >only selected; I frequently get the message "Nothing to Print - Print >Cancelled". I think this will happen if you tell it to print pages that don't exist. If you tell it to print something which is not blank or null, and it does this, then it's a bug, and I'd like to hear more. >>>BTW is v2.49 still a test version? >>I'm aware of no bugs. In the context I meant I was not aware of any bugs in 2.49 which are not in all the previous versions. New bugs in other words. Although over the weekend someone pointed out the JPEG one, so that is no longer true. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From pete.bready@cableol.co.uk Wed May 6 21:06:36 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65094 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 21:06:35 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894480631:10:07576:0; Wed, 06 May 98 18:50:31 GMT Received: from mars.cableol.net ([194.168.4.224]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1118758; 6 May 98 18:50 GMT Received: from desdemona-107.cableol.net by mars.cableol.net; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Feb96-0403PM) id AA05215; Wed, 6 May 1998 19:50:13 +0100 Message-Id: <355121C4.28F@cableol.co.uk> Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 19:51:48 -0700 From: Pete Bready Organization: Home X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Changing master page columns and then undo hangs Opro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Opro hangs after the following sequence: 1. Load text into new doc 2. Page/Edit Master Page, then on master page Page/Edit Page Guidelines 3. Change no of columns from 1 to 2; OK 4. Close master page 5. Doc now shows two columns as expected 6 However then clicking on undo hangs Opro Only seems to happen if there's enough text to flow into second column. I'm on Opro 2.49, Riscos 3.7 etc From kh@waikato.ac.nz Thu May 7 00:47:35 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65098 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 00:47:33 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894498027:10:22898:1; Wed, 06 May 98 23:40:27 GMT Received: from xena.cs.waikato.ac.nz ([130.217.241.20]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1022811; 6 May 98 23:40 GMT Received: from freja (freja.cs.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.248.25]) by xena.cs.waikato.ac.nz (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA05484 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 11:40:19 +1200 (NZST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Keith Hopper To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 11:39:39 +1200 Message-ID: <4842390327kh@waikato.ac.nz> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.6 Subject: Subscriptions Content-Type: text/plain On 06 May, Alf Chamings wrote: > How much is =A320? Exactly twenty pounds sterling! What arrived at your end as something like =A320 left me as a pounds sterling sign and then the digits 20. You sent this back to me. Must be something in the mail system which says that the code for the poounds sterling mark is not in the Latin-1 position so it has to be sent as an equals sign followed by the hexadecimal code involved (for one octet that is!!). kh From andy.ling@quantel.com Thu May 7 13:38:46 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65172 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:38:45 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894529967:10:07146:1; Thu, 07 May 98 08:32:47 GMT Received: from pop3.hiway.co.uk ([195.12.1.130]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007060; 7 May 98 8:32 GMT Received: from mailsrv.quantel.com (bin@quantel-gw.hiway.co.uk [195.12.5.195]) by pop3.hiway.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13034 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 09:40:17 +0100 From: Received: SMTP by Quantel-Mailhub (8.8.3/3.1). id JAA08880 for INET:ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu, 7 May 1998 09:31:56 +0100 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <002565FD.0033771B.00@buffer1.HQ.quantel> Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:33:08 +0000 Subject: Undo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Organization: Quantel Ltd. I know this probably breaks the fundamentals of the way the undo system works, but there is a new feature I would like to see. Would it be possible to (probably as an option) only remember things that actually changed the document and not remember all the cursor movements, scrolling etc. Just a thought to keep Mr P busy for a month or two ;-) Andy Ling From don.lewis@bristol.ac.uk Thu May 7 13:38:50 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65173 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:38:47 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894537680:10:04167:3; Thu, 07 May 98 10:41:20 GMT Received: from dirc.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.51]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1105720; 7 May 98 10:41 GMT Received: from sis.bris.ac.uk by dirc.bris.ac.uk with SMTP-PRIV (PP) with ESMTP; Thu, 7 May 1998 11:41:08 +0100 Received: from dml1.pys.bristol.ac.uk (dml1.pys.bris.ac.uk [137.222.53.82]) by sis.bris.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA08946 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 11:38:53 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:38:51 +0100 (BST) From: "Dr. D. M. Lewis" Subject: Re: Anchored boxes To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980507.012519.64@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] On Thu 07 May, Dave Hawkins wrote: > On Wed, 6 May 1998, C.R.S. Fludger wrote: > > > Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? > > > > I would like to produce documents with pictures |---------------| > > added at the side of the text. A bit like the | | > > box that is on the right. (That's if the mail | | > > system does not change the style of this | | > > message. ----------------- > As David said there's no OP feature which does this directly. However, > what you could try is to create two embedded frames. The first is for your > text and the second is for your graphic. Yes this is possible and I have used this device. But it rarely happens that the graphic and associated text require the right frame sizes to eliminate substantial blank areas. As you cannot link into or between embedded frames, this method becomes far from easy. I have often wished for the facility suggested originally. Don Lewis Dr. D. M. Lewis Phone (+44) 117 9287813 Department of Physiology Secretaries' Office 9288105 Medical School Fax 9288923 University Walk, Bristol, BS8 1TD From djh39@thor.cam.ac.uk Thu May 7 13:38:52 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65174 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:38:51 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894537989:10:09490:1; Thu, 07 May 98 10:46:29 GMT Received: from hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.39]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1111185; 7 May 98 10:46 GMT Received: from djh39 (helo=localhost) by hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.91 #1) for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 0yXOBh-0001zV-00; Thu, 7 May 1998 11:46:05 +0100 Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:46:05 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Hawkins X-Sender: djh39@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Re: Spelling In-Reply-To: <19980507.012530.54@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Dave Hawkins On Thu, 7 May 1998, Ariancylch wrote: > > The construction of a MIB is defined by the SNMP SMI RFC using ASN.1. > > Some may consider my views as `splitting hairs', but I view them > differently. `RFC' I liken to `kg' or `pt' - both real entities. `i.e.', > on the other hand, I would liken to `poss.' (possibly). Again I concede > it comes to personal preference as to where the line is drawn - I'm > content with `am' and `pm'... I still need to include 'words' containing dots in the dictionary if I want to use them and have spell-checking working properly (what would you write for ASN.1?). That's where I'd like an improvement in OP. > > > Per se, on the other hand, is a more interesting difficulty. > > Perhaps only slightly more difficult than the previous problems. In > > particular 'per' is actually a word so you need to implement some kind of > > backtracking feature. This problem actually becomes more apparent if you > > start expanding to get 'id est', etc. > > If the spell-checker can handle hyphenated words (can it?) I'd have > thought the extension to cases such as `per se' would be comparatively > trivial. What I would assume happens in OP is: 1) Find the first word (terminator is given by whitespace or punctuation mark). 2) Check it in the dictionary. 3) Find next word 4) Goto (2) So what happens with 'per se': Finds 'per' and matches it in the dictionary. Finds 'se' and doesn't match it in the dictionary. We must backtrack to find 'per' again and try to match the whole phrase, but when do we stop trying to match words like this (think about if it's a real spelling error)? However, with hyphens we can first make the assumption that the whole hyphenated word is in the dictionary. Then if it isn't we can just check the separated words. To deal with spaces we could: 1) Assume all words might be part of a phrase, i.e. get two words, see if they match a dictionary entry, otherwise if the difference is on the space or later we get the next two words. But this is a little slow. 2) Have tagged entries in the dictionary: if a word is also the first word in a phrase then mark it so and check for this when spell-checking. This is a non-trivial change, in my opinion. > I claim that's opinion again: Can I talk about TeX without using a greek > font? OK, I'll concede that there my be alternative ways to write Modula-3. However, I think a sensible rule of thumb is that anything I can type using ASCII (which includes Modula-3) should be representatable in the dictionary. Incidentally, I didn't think TEX needed a greek font for its name, just a lowered E (unless of course your not talking about the typesetting program or they've changed the spelling on progression to LATEX). Dave From secpc@gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au Thu May 7 13:39:14 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65181 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:39:13 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894508784:12:08729:0; Thu, 07 May 98 02:39:44 GMT Received: from gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au ([129.96.250.33]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1528880; 7 May 98 2:39 GMT Received: from 009975 (sturt34.sturt.flinders.edu.au [129.96.238.34]) by gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SM Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980507121021.00917960@gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au> X-Sender: secpc@gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 12:10:21 +0900 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk From: Carl Cepurneek Subject: Re: Anchored graphic frames In-Reply-To: <19980507.012512.43@pilling.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The discussion so far: >> >Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? >> No. .... >It'd be *massively* useful/timesaving/neat/cool - can it be done at all? .... I'm no applet writer but was wondering if... Define a style, say 'anchor' that is applied to the word just before or after the graphic frame. Write an applet that moves that frame accordingly. Maybe not immediatly, but at least at the click of an icon. Problems already: What happens if there is no room for the picture, eg the anhor word is too close to a border? What if the anchored frame now collides with another? Can there be sever al anchor styles, each with its own frame? There might have to be manual adjustments, but the scheme, if workable, might help for many situations. Let me know when it's ready :-) cpc From auric@ihug.co.nz Thu May 7 13:39:26 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65186 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:39:25 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894527470:05:27125:0; Thu, 07 May 98 07:51:10 GMT Received: from chong.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.10]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0527070; 7 May 98 7:51 GMT Received: from auric.ihug.co.nz (p53-max34.auck.ihug.co.nz [207.212.240.245]) by chong.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TA Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:51:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Frank Lester Subject: Thumbnail printing To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] I'm sure this has been covered before, but I can't recall the reply. I wish to print ID cards using a mail merge into OP. I have set up a page 72mm x 48mm with the required fields as a mail merge from a CSV file. I need to be able to print the different cards as thumbnails of 3x4 on each page for trimming and laminating. However I can only print either one merged card per sheet or using "all same" 12 copies of the same card on each sheet. How can I have 12 different ID cards on one sheet? -- Frank Lester "Omahanui" Waitangi Falls Road RD1 Waiuku,New Zealand From ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk Thu May 7 13:39:28 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65187 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:39:27 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894528123:12:29480:0; Thu, 07 May 98 08:02:03 GMT Received: from llyr.cee.hw.ac.uk ([137.195.52.200]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1502681; 7 May 98 8:02 GMT Received: by tungat.cee.hw.ac.uk (Smail3.1.28.1 #116) id m0yXLcu-000BkCC; Thu, 7 May 98 09:02 WET DST Message-Id: From:(Matthew Hambley) Subject: Autosave bug in 2.49? To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:01:59 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 458 I don't remember having seen this mentioned else where so here goes. I have created a document with autosave turned on but prompt turned off. However I still get a prompt asking if I wish to autosave. -- (\/)atthew Hambley ---------------------\ term : ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk \ "What's a network?" holiday : mhambley@arcade.demon.co.uk \ B.Gates, early '80s web : http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceemah/ \---------------------------------- From goldline@abacusline.demon.co.uk Thu May 7 13:39:36 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65190 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:39:35 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894537030:12:26839:0; Thu, 07 May 98 10:30:30 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ah1226794; 7 May 98 10:30 GMT Received: from abacusline.demon.co.uk ([194.222.194.153]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2008483; 7 May 98 10:30 GMT Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:29:38 +0100 (BST) From: GoldLine Subject: Read only version of Ovation Pro To: David Pilling Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] What are the chances of a Read only version of Ovation Pro becoming available? Such a Read Only version would allow me to send Ovation Pro format documents to people who don't have Ovation Pro. It would probably encourage them to 'convert' to Ovation Pro. At present I have to send such documents in Fireworkz format because a Read Only version of Fireworkz has been made available by Colton Software. I have been sent a Read Only version of Ovation but it turns out that it is Ovation and not Ovation Pro - so my correspondent couldn't read my Ovation Pro document! I had to revert to Fireworkz. Fireworkz is very good for sending documents containing both text, graphics and tables - but I've been asked if Ovation Pro can do better! Gerald L Fitton From tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Thu May 7 15:50:47 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65213 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 15:50:46 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894551172:10:07827:0; Thu, 07 May 98 14:26:12 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007686; 7 May 98 14:26 GMT Received: from (mk-net.demon.co.uk) [194.222.12.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yXRca-0004jz-00; Thu, 7 May 1998 15:26:04 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:11:16 +0100 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk From: Tony van der Hoff Subject: Nothing to print In-Reply-To: <19980507.012603.43@pilling.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 In message <19980507.012603.43@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling writes > >>Wwhen printing a multi-chapter double-sided document, with left pages >>only selected; I frequently get the message "Nothing to Print - Print >>Cancelled". > >I think this will happen if you tell it to print pages that don't exist. >If you tell it to print something which is not blank or null, and it >does this, then it's a bug, and I'd like to hear more. > As usual, the situation isn't that clear-cut. I'm not asking for a specific page range, just 'all left-hand pages' ('all pages' and 'left' with no other buttons selected in the print dbox). There are two chapters, each of which end on a right-hand page. If I hit Print, I get the error. I presume it's trying to print the (non-existant) left-hand pages at the end of the chapters, because if I select a specific page-range containing *precisely* the existant page numbers, it works fine. Printing 'all pages both sides' works fine too, with the non-existant pages omitted. Yes, I agree it's a bug, but easily worked around, so not urgent. I'll send you the document if it helps, but I think the description should be sufficient. -- Tony van der Hoff | Mailto:tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Buckinghamshire, England | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From mlb1@ukc.ac.uk Thu May 7 18:58:49 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65251 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 18:58:47 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894563858:12:14648:0; Thu, 07 May 98 17:57:38 GMT Received: from mercury.ukc.ac.uk ([129.12.21.10]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1214628; 7 May 98 17:57 GMT Received: from kiwi.ukc.ac.uk by mercury.ukc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 7 May 1998 18:57:28 +0100 Received: from pcbi10 by kiwi.ukc.ac.uk (SMI-8.6/UKC-2.14) id SAA12450; Thu, 7 May 1998 18:57:26 +0100 Message-ID: <3551F683.1F@ukc.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:59:32 +0100 From: MattLB Organization: UKC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Changing master page columns and then undo hangs Opro References: <19980507.012609.07@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pete Bready wrote: > > Opro hangs after the following sequence: > 1. Load text into new doc > 2. Page/Edit Master Page, then on master page Page/Edit Page Guidelines > 3. Change no of columns from 1 to 2; OK > 4. Close master page > 5. Doc now shows two columns as expected > 6 However then clicking on undo hangs Opro > > Only seems to happen if there's enough text to flow into second column. > > I'm on Opro 2.49, Riscos 3.7 etc Is the text file you're starting with a DOS one filetyped as text? I reported the same bug in 2.46 and discovered that it only occured if the file was filetyped as RISCOS text, but was originally a PC text file. To produce the same effect load any RISCOS text file into Zap, change it to a DOS file and save it. This file, used as you describe above, will now cause the hanging you mention. I haven't done the upgrade to 2.49 yet, so I don't know if it's exactly the same thing. MattLB From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu May 7 19:43:58 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65260 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 19:43:57 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894566676:10:28801:0; Thu, 07 May 98 18:44:36 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1028792; 7 May 98 18:44 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yXVei-00008d-00; Thu, 7 May 1998 19:44:32 +0100 Date: Thu, 07 May 98 19:14:24 GMT Message-Id: <65254@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: >Would it be possible to (probably as an option) only remember >things that actually changed the document and not remember all >the cursor movements, scrolling etc. >Just a thought to keep Mr P busy for a month or two ;-) The undo system is probably the most complicated code in the program. You have to decide which way to do it. For example one choice was not to undo 'view' changes. So it does not save the scroll position, or the number of views you have open, or zooms. But another decision was to save the 'tool' state. So OPro's undo code knows you inserted a character, but it does not save data saying where, instead it relies on the position of the caret always being correct, because that is inside the undo/redo loop. Making major changes is inconceivable. From: "Dr. D. M. Lewis" >>> Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? Just out of interest, on the packages that have this feature, do the anchored frames have any effect on text flow around themselves? (something of a trick question because if they do it will in general be possible to create text flows that have to be iterated and may never converge). From: Frank Lester >I'm sure this has been covered before, but I can't recall the reply. >I wish to print ID cards using a mail merge into OP. I have set up a page >72mm x 48mm with the required fields as a mail merge from a CSV file. I need See the document on making use of the new mail merge features, available from the Upgrade page on www.beebug.com. From:(Matthew Hambley) >I have created a document with autosave turned on but prompt turned off. >However I still get a prompt asking if I wish to autosave. Turning off warnings does not turn off all warnings. Important ones are (intentionally) still brought to your attention. From: GoldLine >What are the chances of a Read only version of Ovation Pro becoming >available? A cut down read only version? No chance. A demo version? Much better. There is a demo (non-saving) version of OPro already. However it has only been made available to dealers. The worry we have had about demo versions is that in a few years time, people will still have CD's with these things on, and will judge the program by how it was previously. Probably something for you to talk to Sheridan Williams about. From: Tony van der Hoff >I'm not asking for a specific page range, just 'all left-hand pages' >('all pages' and 'left' with no other buttons selected in the print >dbox). There are two chapters, each of which end on a right-hand page. >If I hit Print, I get the error. >I presume it's trying to print the (non-existant) left-hand pages at the I guess though that you have to be able to print completely blank pages. Typically you will print all the left hand pages then turn the paper over and print the right hand sides. You need to feed the pages that are blank through the printer - it's easier that way. A little experiment reveals that Acorn drivers raise the error above, and CC ones don't. Hmm. maybe I should put something invisible on such bits of paper. From: MattLB >> Opro hangs after the following sequence: >> 6 However then clicking on undo hangs Opro >Is the text file you're starting with a DOS one filetyped as text? I >reported the same bug in 2.46 and discovered that it only occured if the It's a known problem, an example of a class of known problems. It doesn't depend on DOS filetypes being involved. From: Roger Mayne >I have discovered a bug concerning colour separations in 2.49 Groan, I plead extremely guilty. I will fix it. I guess the source is a change of font at the same place as a change of colour and implicitly a change of overprint. Since there is no transparent font painting bits of the string have to be converted to moves... David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From darprint@btinternet.com Thu May 7 19:44:08 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65262 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 19:44:06 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894565868:12:27738:6; Thu, 07 May 98 18:31:08 GMT Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0524694; 7 May 98 18:31 GMT Received: from darprint.btinternet.com [195.99.48.171] by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0yXVRE-0004V8-00; Thu, 7 May 1998 19:30:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Roger Mayne To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:31:04 +0100 Message-ID: <4842a09898darprint@btinternet.com> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Colour separation problem 2.49 Content-Type: text/plain Hi all, I have discovered a bug concerning colour separations in 2.49, which came to light only after we had made all films and printing plates. The reason it was only noticed at this stage was because on screen, in full colour, it appeared as it should. The problem concerned a white reversed word in the middle of a sentence where all the other words were black and this was on top of a half-tone. The white word was in a different typeface to the rest of the sentence because it needed to be stressed. The design of the job necessitated that the black text was set to overprint because of background colours and it was essential that the magenta, process blue and yellow did not knock out, but the white, of course, had to knock out. However, when viewing the films the white word had reverted to the typeface of the WORD preceding it! After two days experimenting, it was discovered that it was the SPACE before the white word that was causing the problem. In order for you to understand what I'm trying to explain, try this:- 1. Open a new document. 2. Create a magenta filled frame. 3. Place another transparent frame over the magenta frame. 4. Type in three words. 5. In 'Edit colour' box, set the black to overprint. 6. Highlight the middle word and change this to a different typeface and colour of white - overprint set to off. 7. Then scroll through the separations to the magenta sep. and you will find the white typeface has reverted to the typeface of the preceding word. 8. Now highlight the space preceding the white word and change this to white with overprint off. You will now find that the magenta separation shows the correct typeface! So the work-around is very easy - just change the space preceding the white word to white, overprint off, and you should save yourself much expense in films. Please note that this problem does not occur if you type the words directly into the magenta frame. Regards Roger -- Roger Mayne mailto:darprint@btinternet.com Darprint, Lithographic Printers Unit 21, r/o 8-14 St. Vincents Road, Dartford, Kent, DA1 1XZ Tel: 01322 227574 Fax: 01322 291237 From kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Fri May 8 13:49:42 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65358 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 08 May 98 13:49:41 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894619158:10:07816:1; Fri, 08 May 98 09:19:18 GMT Received: from hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk ([147.143.102.8]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1100573; 8 May 98 9:19 GMT From: Mr J P Kerslake Date: Fri, 8 May 98 10:19:11 BST Message-Id: <14033.9805080919@hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk> Received: from aphrodite.sees.bangor.ac.uk by hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk; Fri, 8 May 98 10:19:11 BST To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Read only version of Ovation Pro > > Fireworkz is very good for sending documents containing both > text, graphics and tables - but I've been asked if Ovation Pro > can do better! > Gerald L Fitton > What about an aplet to insert an active spread sheet into an Ov Pro window? ie an hot link to fireworks etc. From martinv@ucs.de Fri May 8 18:51:12 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65380 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 08 May 98 18:51:11 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894643379:10:05880:1; Fri, 08 May 98 16:02:59 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1005814; 8 May 98 16:02 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA14697 for ; Fri, 8 May 1998 18:02:50 +0200 Message-Id: <199805081602.SAA14697@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 08 May 1998 09:11:57 GMT Subject: Re: Various MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >From: GoldLine > >>What are the chances of a Read only version of Ovation Pro becoming >>available? > >A cut down read only version? No chance. A demo version? Much better. > >There is a demo (non-saving) version of OPro already. However it has only >been made available to dealers. The worry we have had about demo versions is >that in a few years time, people will still have CD's with these things on, >and will judge the program by how it was previously. Just my humble opinion but a viewer/demo/whatnot is a mighty powerful thing to have. On the Acorn market small and 'invisible' as it is one is better off having an ageing demo but nothing. We had the Ovation Pro demo erroneously on our web-site for download and it earned 253 hits and it surely was the reason for a lot of people --- buying the actual thing even if they already had Impression. At least over here in Germany people do not have a fair chance seeing OP in real life where there is so few dealers left. The rest is hearsay, a back-issue of magazine xyz or rumours in general. Our experience is (was) that nothing else creates more sales but the viewer/demo/whatnot thingy. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Fri May 8 18:51:50 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65383 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 08 May 98 18:51:49 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894643340:12:16435:8; Fri, 08 May 98 16:02:20 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1216460; 8 May 98 16:02 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA14636 for ; Fri, 8 May 1998 18:02:04 +0200 Message-Id: <199805081602.SAA14636@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 08 May 1998 07:43:28 GMT Subject: Re: Thumbnail printing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >I'm sure this has been covered before, but I can't recall the reply. >I wish to print ID cards using a mail merge into OP. I have set up a page >72mm x 48mm with the required fields as a mail merge from a CSV file. I need >to be able to print the different cards as thumbnails of 3x4 on each page for >trimming and laminating. However I can only print either one merged card per >sheet or using "all same" 12 copies of the same card on each sheet. How can I >have 12 different ID cards on one sheet? Well You can try to do it like we do our Virus-Killer disc labels. Each label has lots of blurb on it and a serial number wich goes into the only flowing story on the label. We prepare a text-file with serial-numbers one per line and the document creates a page per one number. Printing that with "All same" off and "Thumbnails" gets us sheets with numbered labels. We just do not use mail-merge but have a frame just big enough for one entity because OP needs the pages ready before thumbnailing them, whereas mail-merging wants to print each entity as a page. I hope this was clear enough. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Fri May 8 18:51:54 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65385 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 08 May 98 18:51:52 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894643383:05:28999:0; Fri, 08 May 98 16:03:03 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1520356; 8 May 98 16:03 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA14694 for ; Fri, 8 May 1998 18:02:48 +0200 Message-Id: <199805081602.SAA14694@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 08 May 1998 08:27:51 GMT Subject: Re: Various MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >From: "Dr. D. M. Lewis" > >>>> Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? > >Just out of interest, on the packages that have this feature, do the >anchored frames have any effect on text flow around themselves? >(something of a trick question because if they do it will in general >be possible to create text flows that have to be iterated and may >never converge). Wow, that's just it, we could have the animated or even fractal document. The never ending story just by a click with the mouse. You could even beat S.King by pages ;-) Actually I did propose something similar to someone from CC some years ago just to get a frightened look. What I wanted was a graphic in one story to flow with a paragraph beginning in another. Or more generally some means to synchronize paragraphs in different flowing stories automagically. Which does (I figure) imply that the frames did not interact. Imagine somthing like this: The main text frame A frame with outlines etc. |bla bla bla bla bla bla bla | | | |bla bla. | | | | | | | |X. The great heading | | Great | The icon and the heading |Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla | | icon | should always align |bla bla bla bla bla bla | | | |bla bla bla bla bla bla bla | | | ... Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri May 8 21:08:38 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65418 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 08 May 98 21:08:36 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894653299:12:15522:18; Fri, 08 May 98 18:48:19 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1215469; 8 May 98 18:48 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yXsBe-0005Ya-00; Fri, 8 May 1998 19:48:02 +0100 Date: Fri, 08 May 98 19:17:33 GMT Message-Id: <65402@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: Martin Vethake >Just my humble opinion but a viewer/demo/whatnot is a mighty powerful >thing to have. On the Acorn market small and 'invisible' as it is >one is better off having an ageing demo but nothing. >We had the Ovation Pro demo erroneously on our web-site for download >and it earned 253 hits and it surely was the reason for a lot of people Probably one bloke who downloaded it 253 times, and then told all his mates it was no good because he'd not been able to get it working. Seriously I think we'll do this now. How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for increasing sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the solution lies in selling more copies rather than charging current users for support. >What I wanted was a graphic in one story to flow with a paragraph beginning >in another. Or more generally some means to synchronize paragraphs in >different flowing stories automagically. Not a bad idea, and doable, as long as one story is the master and the rest follow it. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From pblenkinsop@moose.co.uk Sat May 9 13:59:52 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65483 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 09 May 98 13:59:48 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894699443:12:02582:0; Sat, 09 May 98 07:37:23 GMT Received: from moose.co.uk ([195.166.48.17]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0506347; 9 May 98 7:37 GMT Received: from pblenkinsop.moose.co.uk (195.166.48.232) by moose.co.uk with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1); Sat, 9 May 1998 08:33:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Peter Blenkinsop To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:15:57 +0100 Message-ID: <48436a7595pblenkinsop@moose.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.5 Subject: Re: Various In-Reply-To: <19980509.021117.04@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 09 May, David Pilling wrote: > How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for increasing > sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the solution lies in > selling more copies rather than charging current users for support. You need an Impression loader to persuade users, in schools for example, to move to OP. I am in one such school. -- I'm going to have an anti-spam remove so complicated that only very, very bright people will be able to undersand and reply to me. Peter Blenkinsop Acorn RiscPC/Pluto/ANT From pete.bready@cableol.co.uk Sat May 9 13:59:54 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65486 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 09 May 98 13:59:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894701031:12:07828:40; Sat, 09 May 98 08:03:51 GMT Received: from mars.cableol.net ([194.168.4.224]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1504588; 9 May 98 8:03 GMT Received: from desdemona-100.cableol.net by mars.cableol.net; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Feb96-0403PM) id AA19866; Sat, 9 May 1998 09:03:46 +0100 Message-Id: <35547EC7.1C30@cableol.co.uk> Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 09:05:27 -0700 From: Pete Bready Organization: Home X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Read only version of Ovation Pro References: <19980509.021052.28@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr J P Kerslake wrote: > > > > > Fireworkz is very good for sending documents containing both > > text, graphics and tables - but I've been asked if Ovation Pro > > can do better! > > Gerald L Fitton > > > > What about an aplet to insert an active spread sheet into an Ov Pro window? > ie an hot link to fireworks etc. > > To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@pilling.demon.co.uk > with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l > To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l That would be great for tables etc - however I doubt it could be easily effected. On the other hand, if Fireworkz could produce embedded Drawfile output... From goldline@abacusline.demon.co.uk Sat May 9 17:04:13 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65498 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 09 May 98 17:04:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894722817:05:28602:10; Sat, 09 May 98 14:06:57 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1220059; 9 May 98 14:06 GMT Received: from abacusline.demon.co.uk ([194.222.194.153]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2018454; 9 May 98 14:06 GMT Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 14:57:48 +0100 (BST) From: GoldLine Subject: Re: Demo version of Ovation Pro To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: <19980509.021117.04@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Dear David I am convinced that a Demo version of Ovation Pro will help sales in both the long and the short term. You say: > Seriously I think we'll do this now. (ie make a Demo version available) Good! The sooner the better. > How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for increasing > sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the solution lies in > selling more copies rather than charging current users for support. There always comes a time when you can sell no more copies because the market is saturated. At that time (with a product as good as Ovation Pro) you will have a large dedicated following who still want user support but you will not be making the Sales required to finance it. This has happened recently to PipeDream and Fireworkz. There is a large dedicated following who have paid a lot over the years for the program they have but the number of New Sales has declined to the point where there is not enough revenue from these new sales to support the cost of further developments. The Colton Software programmers are now working as freelance (part time) rather than for a salary from Colton Software and the further development of these products is being paid for out of user support revenues. It is my view that Ovation Pro has not yet penetrated the market in the way that PipeDream and Fireworkz did. Hence, although financing development out of user support should not be ruled out in the long term it is not required yet. Ovation Pro is still in the 'Expansion' phase of its life cycle and so further penetration of the market is not only possible but a relatively cheap way of generating revenue. The Acorn market is different from what we might call the 'Windows machine' market. People with Acorn machines expect their hardware and software to last much longer than similar products for Windows. Because of this they will not buy any Acorn product unless they believe that it will have a long life. Ovation Pro deserves to have a long life because it is a good product and has the potential to become an even better one. However, people will not buy it (even now they won't) if they think that user support will evaporate once the market is saturated (ie when the number of new sales drops off). Hence you must plan for that time now if you are to continue to make new sales now. One final point. During the time that the financing of development of a product depends solely on revenues from new sales it is better to penetrate the market slowly (in order to provide the revenues to feed the development) rather than have a nine-day-wonder which yields huge cash flows over a relatively short period of time. It is inadvisable to go for maximum sales when there is little or no competition but better to leave some potential sales for later so that the development cost can continue to be financed from new sales as long as possible! It is when the market is saturated that you will need to finance program support by charging for user support. Gerald -- GoldLine From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Sat May 9 17:32:19 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65505 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 09 May 98 17:32:18 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894729897:10:14210:0; Sat, 09 May 98 16:04:57 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1118412; 9 May 98 16:04 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yYC7H-0004wA-00; Sat, 9 May 1998 17:04:51 +0100 Date: Sat, 09 May 98 14:31:08 GMT Message-Id: <65496@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: Alf Chamings >But a spelling dictionary must surely be word based. If you allowed spaces, >or other punctuation marks, to be part of words, how could it recognise the >beginnings and ends of words? Instead of a simple (in programming terms) Not that I'm going to rush out and do it, but I rather fancied the idea that you could have phrases in the dictionary. Words that only were allowed if one followed the other. You might add spotting errors like this to some other program, a 'fluff' like one. From: Stephen Wright >How do I prevent the 'Ovation Pro Styles', 'Page Palette' and 'Cols' >windows being opened automatically? Usually they have a variable in the main !Applet.Library.Script file that you can change the initial value of; e.g. ColPal int colpal_palette = 1; Change the 1 to a 0. e.g. PagePal int pagepal_toolbox = 1; again change 1 to 0. and StylePal int stylepal_palette = 1; From: Steven Pampling >> How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for increasing >> sales >Import/export facilities for Impression (including graphics), other Acorn >text processor programs, and of course the ever present request for >import/export of files from the Microsoft world. Well we have tried to do all this, and it may yet come to pass. Seemingly the days when people were queueing up to write software for Beebug have gone. From: Alan Muscat >Convince Mike Williams of Acorn Publisher to produce his mag using OPro >instead of Impression, and methinks that many of his subscribers who are >Imp users will follow suit. Actually there may be some startling news in this direction soon. Not connected with Acorn Publisher I hasten to add. This is the argument that if I finished the professional side of things, large images etc. then the high end users would move over, and although there are not many of them, others would follow. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From julian@southern.co.nz Mon May 11 19:29:57 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65523 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 11 May 98 19:29:54 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894749855:12:03687:0; Sat, 09 May 98 21:37:35 GMT Received: from cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0512369; 9 May 98 21:37 GMT Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (ppp137158.netaccess.co.nz [202.37.101.158]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA09327 for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 09:37:51 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Sun,10 May 1998.09:41:35 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 09:26:59 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Spelling Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980508.013625.78@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980508.013625.78@pilling.demon.co.uk> djh39@cam.ac.uk (Dave Hawkins) wrote: > On Thu, 7 May 1998, Ariancylch wrote: > > > > The construction of a MIB is defined by the SNMP SMI RFC using ASN.1. > > > > Some may consider my views as `splitting hairs', but I view them > > differently. `RFC' I liken to `kg' or `pt' - both real entities. > > `i.e.', on the other hand, I would liken to `poss.' (possibly). > > Again I concede it comes to personal preference as to where the line > > is drawn - I'm content with `am' and `pm'... > I still need to include 'words' containing dots in the dictionary if I > want to use them and have spell-checking working properly (what would > you write for ASN.1?). That's where I'd like an improvement in OP. I guess this begins to lead to the `where do you draw the line' question, as I'd say ``Special case (.)*'' A semi-common approach to this I've seen is an `ignore words all in caps' option, and similar things for words with starting caps in the middle of sentences and a few other `simple' rules that likely spring to mind. > > > > Per se, on the other hand, is a more interesting difficulty. > > > Perhaps only slightly more difficult than the previous problems. > > > In particular 'per' is actually a word so you need to implement > > > some kind of backtracking feature. This problem actually becomes > > > more apparent if you start expanding to get 'id est', etc. > > > > If the spell-checker can handle hyphenated words (can it?) I'd have > > thought the extension to cases such as `per se' would be > > comparatively trivial. > What I would assume happens in OP is: > 1) Find the first word (terminator is given by whitespace or punctuation > mark). > 2) Check it in the dictionary. > 3) Find next word > 4) Goto (2) > > So what happens with 'per se': > Finds 'per' and matches it in the dictionary. > Finds 'se' and doesn't match it in the dictionary. We must backtrack > to find 'per' again and try to match the whole phrase, but when do we > stop trying to match words like this (think about if it's a real > spelling error)? > > However, with hyphens we can first make the assumption that the whole > hyphenated word is in the dictionary. Then if it isn't we can just > check the separated words. Which sounds like the above algorithm, to me. Just replace `hyphen' with `space'. > To deal with spaces we could: > 1) Assume all words might be part of a phrase, i.e. get two words, see if > they match a dictionary entry, otherwise if the difference is on the space > or later we get the next two words. But this is a little slow. [slow enough to be worth caring about?] > 2) Have tagged entries in the dictionary: if a word is also the first > word in a phrase then mark it so and check for this when > spell-checking. > > This is a non-trivial change, in my opinion. I'd have suggested the opposite - mark the second word in the pair. That way, on encountering a `se' the system knows that it's only valid if preceded by a `per' and checks that the last word it had was `per'. This way you only `step backward' (though I'd have envisaged `simply' keeping the last n words checked in a list) if it's likely to be useful. > > I claim that's opinion again: Can I talk about TeX without using a > > greek font? > OK, I'll concede that there my be alternative ways to write Modula-3. :) > However, I think a sensible rule of thumb is that anything I can type > using ASCII (which includes Modula-3) should be representatable in the > dictionary. While I agree with that, it's not -quite- what is being requested here. An equally sensible rule of thumb is that anything typed in ASCII uses a space as a delimter. This breaks with `per se'. > Incidentally, I didn't think TEX needed a greek font for its > name, just a lowered E (unless of course your not talking about the > typesetting program or they've changed the spelling on progression to > LATEX). I am, indeed, talking about TeX, and it's `derivative' LaTeX. It's my understanding that `TeX' is comprised of a capital T on the baseline, a capital E slightly lowered, and a (greek) chi on the baseline. Though I am unsure of exactly how to spell `chi'. The symbol closely resembles a capital X, in either case, and is usually taken to be such since you can type it in ASCII. -- I won't use words again | Faith | May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant |manages| and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said | - JMS | places where you must walk From phrvn@csv.warwick.ac.uk Mon May 11 19:31:57 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65594 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 11 May 98 19:31:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894809138:10:23239:2; Sun, 10 May 98 14:05:38 GMT Received: from pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk ([137.205.192.19]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1023143; 10 May 98 14:05 GMT Received: from primrose (phrvn@primrose [137.205.192.26]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA09491 for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 15:05:26 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 15:05:01 +0100 (BST) From: Nick Kaijaks Sender: phrvn@primrose.csv.warwick.ac.uk To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Re: Various In-Reply-To: <19980509.021117.04@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 9 May 1998, David Pilling wrote: > >What I wanted was a graphic in one story to flow with a paragraph beginning > >in another. Or more generally some means to synchronize paragraphs in > >different flowing stories automagically. > > Not a bad idea, and doable, as long as one story is the master and the > rest follow it. That would actually be a quite useful feature to implement. Another use might be for bilingual documents (e.g. translations/transliterations of foreign lyrics/libretti) where you want to keep the two languages 'in step', or indeed for running footnotes... TTFN, Nick -- nick kaijaks ~ pinxit design ~ for internet and print ~ http://come.to/pinxit mailto:Nick.Kaijaks@warwick.ac.uk orange:0966 188872 Disclaimer: caveat internettor From timk@ns.planet.gen.nz Mon May 11 19:32:40 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65608 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 11 May 98 19:32:38 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894783114:12:24169:0; Sun, 10 May 98 06:51:54 GMT Received: from brainy.nzplink.co.nz ([203.98.52.1]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1224145; 10 May 98 6:51 GMT Received: from timk.ns.planet.gen.nz (as5200-32.kiwilink.co.nz [203.98.52.92]) by brainy.kiwilink.co.nz (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 10:39:20 +1200 (GMT) From: Tim King Subject: Re: Anchored graphic frames To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980508.013630.99@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: De-Sign, Nth Shore City, New Zealand X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] On Fri 08 May, Carl Cepurneek wrote: > > Define a style, say 'anchor' that is applied to the word just before or > after the graphic frame. Write an applet that moves that frame accordingly. > Maybe not immediatly, but at least at the click of an icon. > > Problems already: What happens if there is no room for the picture, eg the > anhor word is too close to a border? Right or left justify on the line in which the anchor is found? ie anchor is to top left OR right of graphic. Assumes rectangular graphics frames? Or to bounding box? > What if the anchored frame now collides with another? Hmm. Gets tricky, doesn't it? S'pose it'd have to shunt down and leave a gap. > Can there be several anchor styles, each with its own frame? > > There might have to be manual adjustments, Definitely, but still a lot better than what I do at the moment, which is embed the graphic; do *all* the editing; work through each chapter from the beginning and unembed and place properly. Ok in principle, but how often is that *all* the editing. With something like the applet proposed, I'd feel more comfortable leaving the final tutu on the graphics to very last thing. > but the scheme, if workable, might help for many situations. > > Let me know when it's ready :-) Yep. Primo applet. Who was doing it again? tim -- d e - S i g . ph +64 9 478.3114 From stevew@metronet.co.uk Mon May 11 19:32:48 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65609 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 11 May 98 19:32:43 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894785193:05:17056:1; Sun, 10 May 98 07:26:33 GMT Received: from warbird.metronet.co.uk ([195.166.51.57]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0517041; 10 May 98 7:26 GMT Received: from stevew.metronet.co.uk (dyn-51-166.pm.metronet.co.uk [195.166.51.166]) by warbird.metronet.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA17924 for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 08:38:26 +0100 (BST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stephen Wright To: Ovation Pro mailling list Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 07:21:33 +0100 Message-ID: <4843e950b0stevew@metronet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Startup options Content-Type: text/plain How do I prevent the 'Ovation Pro Styles', 'Page Palette' and 'Cols' windows being opened automatically? For most of my documents I don't need them. -- Stephen Wright @ Home From steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk Mon May 11 19:33:33 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65620 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 11 May 98 19:33:29 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894866963:10:29666:0; Mon, 11 May 98 06:09:23 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1029581; 11 May 98 6:09 GMT Received: from (193.130.253.67) [193.130.253.67] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yYlls-0007BJ-00; Mon, 11 May 1998 07:09:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 10:33:28 +0100 Message-ID: <4843fae2d9steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Various In-Reply-To: <19980509.021117.04@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 09 May, David Pilling wrote: > How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for increasing > sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the solution lies in > selling more copies rather than charging current users for support. Probably not what you want to hear, but ... Import/export facilities for Impression (including graphics), other Acorn text processor programs, and of course the ever present request for import/export of files from the Microsoft world. * SteveP -- steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk or camra@argonet.co.uk for CAMRA items ZFC Zr *** "Cheer up Lad, think of the Derby Trip!!" *** - Wallace looking forward to Derby Beer Festival... From ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk Mon May 11 19:34:06 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65633 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 11 May 98 19:34:04 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894881424:10:14288:0; Mon, 11 May 98 10:10:24 GMT Received: from llyr.cee.hw.ac.uk ([137.195.52.200]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1108043; 11 May 98 10:10 GMT Received: by hoenir.cee.hw.ac.uk (Smail3.1.28.1 #116) id m0yYpX6-000BixC; Mon, 11 May 98 11:10 WET DST Message-Id: From:(Matthew Hambley) Subject: Re: Various To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:10:07 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <19980508.013713.44@pilling.demon.co.uk> from "David Pilling" at May 8, 98 01:37:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1244 > From: GoldLine > > >What are the chances of a Read only version of Ovation Pro becoming > >available? > > A cut down read only version? No chance. A demo version? Much better. > > There is a demo (non-saving) version of OPro already. However it has only > been made available to dealers. The worry we have had about demo versions is > that in a few years time, people will still have CD's with these things on, > and will judge the program by how it was previously. > > Probably something for you to talk to Sheridan Williams about. I suspect a demo version would be good for sales. You could get around the 'judging now by the product of then' problem by intentionaly crippling the demo in some way (some features not available) and making it very obvious that you have done so. That way the demo is not wholy representative of the current product let alone a future one. Then again this might be counterproductive. I'm not up on psychology. -- (\/)atthew Hambley ---------------------\ term : ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk \ "What's a network?" holiday : mhambley@arcade.demon.co.uk \ B.Gates, early '80s web : http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceemah/ \---------------------------------- From alfchamings@ed.ac.uk Mon May 11 19:34:16 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65637 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 11 May 98 19:34:13 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894888691:10:18050:0; Mon, 11 May 98 12:11:31 GMT Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk ([129.215.166.17]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1123048; 11 May 98 12:11 GMT Received: from alfred.ed.ac.uk (dialup-96.publab.ed.ac.uk [129.215.38.96]) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA19689 for ; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:11:24 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:48:13 +0100 (BST) From: Alf Chamings Subject: Re: Spelling To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980508.013625.78@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] On Fri 08 May, Dave Hawkins wrote: > OK, I'll concede that there my be alternative ways to write Modula-3. > However, I think a sensible rule of thumb is that anything I can type > using ASCII (which includes Modula-3) should be representatable in the > dictionary. Incidentally, I didn't think TEX needed a greek font for its > name, just a lowered E (unless of course your not talking about the > typesetting program or they've changed the spelling on progression to > LATEX). > But a spelling dictionary must surely be word based. If you allowed spaces, or other punctuation marks, to be part of words, how could it recognise the beginnings and ends of words? Instead of a simple (in programming terms) definition of a word, there would have to be some horribly complex context dependent definition which would cause more problems than it resolved. Alf -- mailto:AlfChamings@ed.ac.uk Health and Safety for the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 http://www.med.ed.ac.uk/hew/ for occupational and environmental health From richard.vardy@argonet.co.uk Mon May 11 19:34:27 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65640 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 11 May 98 19:34:26 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894898812:05:06134:3; Mon, 11 May 98 15:00:12 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1513812; 11 May 98 14:59 GMT Received: from (193.130.246.88) [193.130.246.88] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yYu3L-00067a-00; Mon, 11 May 1998 15:59:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Richard S.Vardy) Reply-To: richard.vardy@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 11 May 98 15:57:52 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: Thumbnail printing Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: You need a utility (available from OVPro site {or a link to another site from OVPro Site}) its called CSVTrans or something. You run this drop your CSV file onto it and it exports a file CSV2. Your Ovation file should have links from one frame to the next. Drop CSV2 onto the first frame... and thats it! -- -- richard.vardy@argonet.co.uk. Risc PC StrongArm USR 28,800 37MB. Washington -Tyne & Wear. From i.a.goulbourne@ncl.ac.uk Mon May 11 22:53:13 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65697 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 11 May 98 22:53:12 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894916671:05:15500:0; Mon, 11 May 98 19:57:51 GMT Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.233.51]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0515484; 11 May 98 19:57 GMT Received: from niag.ncl.ac.uk by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id (8.7.6/ for ncl.ac.uk) with SMTP; Mon, 11 May 1998 20:57:46 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:19:15 +0100 (BST) From: Ian Goulbourne Subject: Contents and index applets To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980503.020658.07@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] HI, can anyone help with locations for the !Contents applet - I can't find it anywhere. I've also had problems with the Index applet bombing out ith fatal error =5 etc. Is there a newer (ie better version) than 1.00 for Index Ian -- Ian Goulbourne |__| |__| |__| Tynemouth | |__| |__| | Acorn RiscPC StrongARM Northumberland | | "Life's a beach in Tynemouth" |______________| *Remove NO.SPAM to reply* From ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk Mon May 11 22:53:22 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65700 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 11 May 98 22:53:17 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894918416:10:22121:1; Mon, 11 May 98 20:26:56 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125082; 11 May 98 20:26 GMT Received: from (gvine.demon.co.uk) [158.152.98.218] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yYz9r-0003vy-00; Mon, 11 May 1998 21:26:48 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gvine.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Mon, 11 May 1998 20:26:59 GMT Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 23:16:32 +0100 From: Alan Muscat To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Various Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980509.021117.04@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: Grapevine Digital Arts X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60f In message <19980509.021117.04@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > From: Martin Vethake > > >Just my humble opinion but a viewer/demo/whatnot is a mighty powerful > >thing to have. On the Acorn market small and 'invisible' as it is > >one is better off having an ageing demo but nothing. > >We had the Ovation Pro demo erroneously on our web-site for download > >and it earned 253 hits and it surely was the reason for a lot of people > > Probably one bloke who downloaded it 253 times, and then told all his > mates it was no good because he'd not been able to get it working. > > Seriously I think we'll do this now. > > How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for increasing > sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the solution lies in > selling more copies rather than charging current users for support. Convince Mike Williams of Acorn Publisher to produce his mag using OPro instead of Impression, and methinks that many of his subscribers who are Imp users will follow suit. -- Alan Muscat *************** Grapevine Digital Arts *********************** ************** http://www.gvine.demon.co.uk ********************* From djh39@thor.cam.ac.uk Tue May 12 14:07:58 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65765 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 12 May 98 14:07:56 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894959353:12:24376:1; Tue, 12 May 98 07:49:13 GMT Received: from hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1224348; 12 May 98 7:49 GMT Received: from djh39 (helo=localhost) by hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.91 #1) for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 0yZ9oC-00027n-00; Tue, 12 May 1998 08:49:08 +0100 Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 08:49:08 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Hawkins X-Sender: djh39@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Re: Spelling In-Reply-To: <19980512.024153.83@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Dave Hawkins On Tue, 12 May 1998, Ariancylch wrote: > I guess this begins to lead to the `where do you draw the line' IMHO I think it's easier just to allow the user to decide, i.e. you let them have punctuation, phrases, etc. and they chose what they do. Otherwise your going to end up with a lot of horrible heuristics. > Which sounds like the above algorithm, to me. Just replace `hyphen' with > `space'. No. You aren't backtracking with hyphens. The next suggestion (1) is the same as the hyphen thing. > > To deal with spaces we could: > > 1) Assume all words might be part of a phrase, i.e. get two words, see if > > they match a dictionary entry, otherwise if the difference is on the space > > or later we get the next two words. But this is a little slow. > > [slow enough to be worth caring about?] It might be significant if you had a large document. Thinking about it I'm not sure that my suggested alternative is much better. (We've got to check a boolean flag rather than two characters, which would probably be slower than a clever word finding algorithm!) > I'd have suggested the opposite - mark the second word in the pair. That > way, on encountering a `se' the system knows that it's only valid if > preceded by a `per' and checks that the last word it had was `per'. > This way you only `step backward' (though I'd have envisaged `simply' > keeping the last n words checked in a list) if it's likely to be useful. I think both methods have flaws. For mine the assumption is made that if any word could start a phrase, then it does (which is effectively the same as hyphenation). In your method how do we deal with phrases with more than two words, where some of the words are not in the dictionary. We need to find the last word first, and we may get other spelling errors before that. > While I agree with that, it's not -quite- what is being requested here. > An equally sensible rule of thumb is that anything typed in ASCII uses a > space as a delimter. This breaks with `per se'. Not so, space is being used as a word delimiter, I just want multiple words :) > I am, indeed, talking about TeX, and it's `derivative' LaTeX. It's my > understanding that `TeX' is comprised of a capital T on the baseline, a > capital E slightly lowered, and a (greek) chi on the baseline. Though I > am unsure of exactly how to spell `chi'. The symbol closely resembles a > capital X, in either case, and is usually taken to be such since you can > type it in ASCII. Just checked the FAQ and you're absolutely right. Dave From steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk Tue May 12 14:07:59 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65766 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 12 May 98 14:07:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894957152:10:26019:0; Tue, 12 May 98 07:12:32 GMT Received: from mail.compulink.co.uk ([194.153.0.20]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1025777; 12 May 98 7:12 GMT Received: from turnbull (turnbull.compulink.co.uk [194.153.4.31]) by mail.compulink.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA10374 for ; Tue, 12 May 1998 08:12:22 +0100 (BST) X-Envelope-From: Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 07:51:43 +0100 From: Steve Turnbull To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Read only version of Ovation Pro Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980512.024135.58@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: The Turnbull Family X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60g Pete Bready wrote: > That would be great for tables etc - however I doubt it could be easily > effected. On the other hand, if Fireworkz could produce embedded Drawfile > output... Which is the same as saying (as people have for many, many years) if only we had a printer driver that output Draw-format files, but that's more-or-less off-topic. -- Steve Turnbull (steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk) http://www.cix.co.uk/~turnbull/ .... Data, data everywhere, and not a byte to eat! From chowe@mldff.uk.lucent.com Tue May 12 14:08:27 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65776 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 12 May 98 14:08:26 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894971995:12:01662:3; Tue, 12 May 98 11:19:55 GMT Received: from ihgw1.lucent.com ([207.19.48.1]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1201559; 12 May 98 11:19 GMT Received: from mlmsgw.uk.lucent.com by ihig1.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id GAA00697; Tue, 12 May 1998 06:43:13 -0500 Received: by mlmsgw.uk.lucent.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BD7DA0.30934880@mlmsgw.uk.lucent.com>; Tue, 12 May 1998 12:19:19 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Howe , Chris" To: "'ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk'" Subject: Bug or feature Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:18:47 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was showing my son how to duplicate objects. A wide line is duplicated many times down the page to simply make 'ruled paper' with relatively narrow un-ruled margins. What does 'horizontal' do? - well, try it by allowing 3mm horizontal displacement. Unexpectedly, the line progressed right, soon hit the end, progressed back, soon hit the other end, moved back, overall making almost a 'sine wave'. Bug or feature? Chris Howe Bath From jenpyjay@argonet.co.uk Tue May 12 14:08:29 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65777 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 12 May 98 14:08:28 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894972070:05:05366:3; Tue, 12 May 98 11:21:10 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0505317; 12 May 98 11:21 GMT Received: from (193.130.247.139) [193.130.247.139] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yZD79-0004wZ-00; Tue, 12 May 1998 12:20:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Graham Jenkins To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 06:47:51 +0100 Message-ID: <4844ede6ddjenpyjay@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Startup options In-Reply-To: <19980512.024215.85@pilling.demon.co.uk> Return-Receipt-To: jenpyjay@argonet.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain On 12 May, Stephen Wright wrote: > How do I prevent the 'Ovation Pro Styles', 'Page Palette' and 'Cols' > windows being opened automatically? > For most of my documents I don't need them. More interesting IMHO is how to make them open in a position that is where I want them, eg at the edge of the screen and not in the middle of the main window. -- Graham ZFC S+ jenpyjay@argonet.co.uk From aca95jel@sheffield.ac.uk Tue May 12 14:59:57 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65798 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 12 May 98 14:59:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894981044:10:16821:0; Tue, 12 May 98 13:50:44 GMT Received: from pp2.shef.ac.uk ([143.167.1.32]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1016570; 12 May 98 13:50 GMT Received: from broadstone.shef.ac.uk [143.167.23.251] by pp2.shef.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yZFRr-0005Ld-01; Tue, 12 May 1998 14:50:27 +0100 Received: from BROADSTONE/SpoolDir by broadstone.shef.ac.uk (Mercury 1.40); 12 May 98 14:50:27 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by BROADSTONE (Mercury 1.40); 12 May 98 14:50:21 +0100 From: "Jamie Lawrence" To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 14:50:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Contents and index applets X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Jamie Lawrence" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.31 Message-ID: <20AE9F2041@broadstone.shef.ac.uk> > > can anyone help with locations for the !Contents applet - I can't find > it anywhere. I've also had problems with the Index applet bombing out > ith fatal error =5 etc. Is there a newer (ie better version) than 1.00 > for Index > I have an awful feeling that you could be talking about the contents applet I wrote about a year ago. I've shut down my web site since I'll soon be leaving uni. I'm terribly ashamed for ever releasing the applet. Contents has been significantly improved (i.e. it occasionally works now), but still cannot work over multiple chapters. Hopefully I'll find a way around this. Does any applet manage to search through multiple chapters? I know the script documentation implies you can but it didn't work for me. I may re-release !Contents in the future when I can guarentee it will work. My current advice is simply to delete the old version off your hard disk - it really was very bad. If you were talking about another applet with the same name then sorry to have wasted your time. Jamie Lawrence From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Tue May 12 16:32:16 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65802 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 12 May 98 16:32:16 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894983429:10:10586:0; Tue, 12 May 98 14:30:29 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125914; 12 May 98 14:30 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yZG4O-0000Yf-00; Tue, 12 May 1998 15:30:16 +0100 Date: Tue, 12 May 98 15:01:40 GMT Message-Id: <65799@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: Steve Turnbull >Which is the same as saying (as people have for many, many years) if >only we had a printer driver that output Draw-format files, but >that's more-or-less off-topic. And you do have the print to PS feedthrough RiscScript approach. From: "Howe , Chris" >Unexpectedly, the line progressed right, soon hit the end, progressed >back, soon hit the other end, moved back, overall making almost a 'sine >wave'. >Bug or feature? It is deliberate. Although I've been told I shouldn't have done it. Seemingly it should be "what you ask for is what you get". From: Graham Jenkins >More interesting IMHO is how to make them open in a position that is where >I want them, eg at the edge of the screen and not in the middle of the >main window. Seemingly this can be arranged too. Looking at the ColPal library file. >int colpal_centre = 1; If you change the 1 to a 0, then the palette will open at the default position set up in the applets template file. (cue flames about normal people and template editors). From: "Jamie Lawrence" >Contents has been significantly improved (i.e. it occasionally works now), >but still cannot work over multiple chapters. Hopefully I'll find a way >around this. Does any applet manage to search through multiple chapters? >I know the script documentation implies you can but it didn't work for me. Having just tried it, the existing Index applet seems to manage this. If you can demo a bug, then I'll fix it. Couple of other points, Mr. Tengelssen has done a sprite for your Contents applet. And David Breakwell has done an excellent indexing applet which provides all the advanced features people have asked for. I suspect the existing index applet will be best for simple indexing, but if you want to go the whole hog, then a solution is close. From: Martin Vethake > Looking at our current OP customers I might suggest some bit "office" >functionality. Not that I want to turn OP into a spreadsheet but >what else are schedules/plans/calendars/timetables... but ("active") >documents. Perhaps a bit like Ovation 1.XX, where one reviewer commented "what a pity they didn't write a database instead". These ideas for macro text always appeal to me. Mail merge with fields isn't quite good enough. From norman@nthom.demon.co.uk Tue May 12 18:59:58 1998 >When I made the point to Beebug, John Wallace replied, on 5th August >1996, that a numbering system, superior to Style's, was already >written but not then debugged. 'We do plan to re-introduce it as part >of the free update at the end of the year', ie the end of 1996. And where is Mr. Wallace now (when we need him)...?! [1] It's still only a short amount of work away from working. [1] in Milton Keynes programming PC's. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From martinv@ucs.de Tue May 12 17:20:50 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65804 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 12 May 98 17:20:48 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894988931:10:16754:5; Tue, 12 May 98 16:02:11 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1015261; 12 May 98 16:01 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA16653 for ; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:00:53 +0200 Message-Id: <199805121600.SAA16653@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 12 May 1998 08:12:05 GMT Subject: Re: Various (automagic paragraphs) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >>What I wanted was a graphic in one story to flow with a paragraph beginning >>in another. Or more generally some means to synchronize paragraphs in >>different flowing stories automagically. > >Not a bad idea, and doable, as long as one story is the master and the >rest follow it. Wow, yes be it so, I guess we do not really need it both ways. I joyfully await the new "Paragraph link" mode where one can draw arrows from one paragraph beginning to another. And lots of nice new error messages like "You cannot link paragraphs in the same story"... With kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Tue May 12 17:20:58 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65807 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 12 May 98 17:20:56 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894989086:12:10438:9; Tue, 12 May 98 16:04:46 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1507445; 12 May 98 16:04 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA16774 for ; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:02:36 +0200 Message-Id: <199805121602.SAA16774@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 12 May 1998 13:45:04 GMT Subject: Re: Various (increasing sales) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for increasing >sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the solution lies in >selling more copies rather than charging current users for support. Looking at our current OP customers I might suggest some bit "office" functionality. Not that I want to turn OP into a spreadsheet but what else are schedules/plans/calendars/timetables... but ("active") documents. request for comment Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From norman@nthom.demon.co.uk Tue May 12 18:59:58 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65809 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 12 May 98 18:59:56 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894994718:12:14203:1; Tue, 12 May 98 17:38:38 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab1213863; 12 May 98 17:37 GMT Received: from nthom.demon.co.uk ([158.152.185.75]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1016213; 12 May 98 17:37 GMT Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:25:34 +0100 From: Norman Thomas To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Bullets and para numbers Message-ID: Organization: Home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60f I would be happy to contribute an annual fee towards updating OPro, but I agree that more sales continue to be necessary. People like me who spend a fair amount of time writing reports need bulleting and automatic numbering of paragraphs, and I miss their absence. When I made the point to Beebug, John Wallace replied, on 5th August 1996, that a numbering system, superior to Style's, was already written but not then debugged. 'We do plan to re-introduce it as part of the free update at the end of the year', ie the end of 1996. I hope that the 're-introduction' will soon be possible, not necessarily as a free update. I am sure that people not now using it would be attracted to the programme if this were done. Norman Thomas From rayd@argonet.co.uk Tue May 12 19:00:02 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65811 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 12 May 98 18:59:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894995580:12:19175:0; Tue, 12 May 98 17:53:00 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0523778; 12 May 98 17:52 GMT Received: from (ba67.argonet.co.uk) [193.130.245.77] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yZJEC-0002xM-00; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:52:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:36:26 +0100 Message-ID: <484523c9a4rayd@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Various In-Reply-To: <19980512.024223.20@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain On 12 May, Steven Pampling wrote: > On 09 May, David Pilling wrote: > > How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for > > increasing sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the > > solution lies in selling more copies rather than charging current > > users for support. > Probably not what you want to hear, but ... > Import/export facilities for Impression (including graphics), other Acorn > text processor programs, and of course the ever present request for > import/export of files from the Microsoft world. I would echo that. For the last couple of weeks I've been working on files from a PC - which have to go back onto a PC. The only way that I can do it is to use Publisher and Wordperfect export/import filters. I could get it into Ovation Pro, where I would much prefer to work on it, but I can't get it back out again with styles etc to send to my PC using client. Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd From rayd@argonet.co.uk Tue May 12 19:00:05 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65813 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 12 May 98 19:00:03 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894995580:12:19175:1; Tue, 12 May 98 17:53:00 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1219091; 12 May 98 17:52 GMT Received: from (ba67.argonet.co.uk) [193.130.245.77] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yZJEF-0002xM-00; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:52:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:37:35 +0100 Message-ID: <484523e4efrayd@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Various In-Reply-To: <19980512.024127.86@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain On 12 May, Peter Blenkinsop wrote: > On 09 May, David Pilling wrote: > > How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for > > increasing sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the > > solution lies in selling more copies rather than charging current > > users for support. > You need an Impression loader to persuade users, in schools for example, > to move to OP. I am in one such school. You've got an Impression loader - which works very well - but you have to transfer graphics and separate frames by hand. Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd From julian@southern.co.nz Wed May 13 13:37:50 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65913 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 13 May 98 13:37:41 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895031297:10:12885:0; Wed, 13 May 98 03:48:17 GMT Received: from cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1111934; 13 May 98 3:48 GMT Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (pppd012.netaccess.co.nz [202.27.186.12]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA26015 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 15:48:32 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Wed,13 May 1998.15:52:26 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:50:32 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Various Message-ID: <39ff664548%julian@illusio.milieu.org.nz> In-Reply-To: <19980513.013825.93@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980513.013825.93@pilling.demon.co.uk> rayd@argonet.co.uk (Ray Dawson) wrote: > On 12 May, Peter Blenkinsop wrote: > > On 09 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > > > How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for > > > increasing sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the > > > solution lies in selling more copies rather than charging current > > > users for support. > > > > You need an Impression loader to persuade users, in schools for > > example, to move to OP. I am in one such school. > > You've got an Impression loader - which works very well - but you have > to transfer graphics and separate frames by hand. And only works if you've got some version of Impression itself. Personally I prefer double-clicking on Impression files and having them end up in OvationPro. Whether or not that's how it'll be implemented I don't know, however. -- I won't use words again | Faith | May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant |manages| and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said | - JMS | places where you must walk From julian@southern.co.nz Wed May 13 13:37:54 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65916 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 13 May 98 13:37:51 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895032238:10:12875:0; Wed, 13 May 98 04:03:58 GMT Received: from cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1118218; 13 May 98 4:03 GMT Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (pppd012.netaccess.co.nz [202.27.186.12]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA26594 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 16:04:16 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Wed,13 May 1998.16:08:10 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:58:23 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Spelling Message-ID: <20b7674548%julian@illusio.milieu.org.nz> In-Reply-To: <19980513.013710.99@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980513.013710.99@pilling.demon.co.uk> djh39@cam.ac.uk (Dave Hawkins) wrote: > On Tue, 12 May 1998, Ariancylch wrote: > > > I guess this begins to lead to the `where do you draw the line' > > IMHO I think it's easier just to allow the user to decide, i.e. you > let them have punctuation, phrases, etc. and they chose what they do. > Otherwise your going to end up with a lot of horrible heuristics. Quite possibly. But users are silly and want to do silly things, like put `per se' in their documents :) > > I'd have suggested the opposite - mark the second word in the pair. > > That way, on encountering a `se' the system knows that it's only > > valid if preceded by a `per' and checks that the last word it had > > was `per'. This way you only `step backward' (though I'd have > > envisaged `simply' keeping the last n words checked in a list) if > > it's likely to be useful. > > I think both methods have flaws. For mine the assumption is made that > if any word could start a phrase, then it does (which is effectively > the same as hyphenation). In your method how do we deal with phrases > with more than two words, where some of the words are not in the > dictionary. We need to find the last word first, and we may get other > spelling errors before that. Hrm. I am (as may be clear) to a certain extent making this up as I go, but my solution stands, even with that example. 1 a `word' that is made up of a `two-part-word' and more parts 2 a `word' that is made up of three or more parts In the case of 1, we will dictionary match the first two anyway (since we have two-part words implemented) and upon encountering the third part we'll simply find that it is in a pair that requires the second half of the first pair (or, if necessary, requires the first pair). In the case of 2, upon encountering the second part the system discovers that this word not only requires a specific predecessor, but specifc successors as well, so we simply pull the next n document-words and check them. -- I won't use words again | Faith | May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant |manages| and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said | - JMS | places where you must walk From julian@southern.co.nz Wed May 13 13:37:57 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65917 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 13 May 98 13:37:55 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895031513:05:06898:0; Wed, 13 May 98 03:51:53 GMT Received: from cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1526520; 13 May 98 3:51 GMT Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (pppd012.netaccess.co.nz [202.27.186.12]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA26202 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 15:52:10 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Wed,13 May 1998.15:56:03 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:53:02 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Various Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980512.024230.56@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980512.024230.56@pilling.demon.co.uk> ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk (Matthew Hambley) wrote: > > From: GoldLine > > > > > What are the chances of a Read only version of Ovation Pro > > > becoming available? > > > > A cut down read only version? No chance. A demo version? Much > > better. > > > > There is a demo (non-saving) version of OPro already. However it has > > only been made available to dealers. The worry we have had about > > demo versions is that in a few years time, people will still have > > CD's with these things on, and will judge the program by how it was > > previously. > > > > Probably something for you to talk to Sheridan Williams about. > > I suspect a demo version would be good for sales. You could get > around the 'judging now by the product of then' problem by > intentionaly crippling the demo in some way (some features not > available) and making it very obvious that you have done so. That way > the demo is not wholy representative of the current product let alone > a future one. Common ways of `crippling' products seems to be to remove saving and printing. If, instead of removing printing, something like `Demo 1st Feb 1903' was tiled in the background of every page it would be very clear how old the demo was, and (should) indicate to people not to judge the current state by one that is `that' old. It has the bonus of pleasing people like me who get set a file but someone, and desperately need to see it, but don't have the application itself. (Since you can print a mostly legible version) > Then again this might be counterproductive. I'm not up on psychology. Neither am I, but I know what I like :) -- I won't use words again | Faith | May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant |manages| and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said | - JMS | places where you must walk From pixeleye@online.no Wed May 13 13:38:06 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65921 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 13 May 98 13:38:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895049772:05:23409:1; Wed, 13 May 98 08:56:12 GMT Received: from pilt.online.no ([193.212.1.34]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0523361; 13 May 98 8:56 GMT Received: from pixeleye.online.no (ti01a06-0048.dialup.online.no [130.67.1.176]) by online.no (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA10438 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 10:55:48 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:57:04 +0000 (GMT+1) From: "Sveinung W. Tengelsen" Subject: Re: Numbering, bullets and other missing links To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980513.013749.71@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Sometimes. X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] On Wed 13 May, () wrote: > >When I made the point to Beebug, John Wallace replied, on 5th August > >1996, that a numbering system, superior to Style's, was already > >written but not then debugged. 'We do plan to re-introduce it as part > >of the free update at the end of the year', ie the end of 1996. > > And where is Mr. Wallace now (when we need him)...?! [1] > > It's still only a short amount of work away from working. Excuse me if I'm counting wrong, but will not the addition of the above plus contents/index generation bring OP head-to-head with IP in the WP department? Just checking. 8) PS - Yes, it'd be worth an upgrade charge. Although it *were* part of the original spex AFAICR, we have gotten FOR FREE so many fancy things not originally specced - imposition for one thing - that 20-40 GBP would be in order for this one. Opinions? -- Best regards, Sveinung W. Tengelsen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- mailto:pixeleye@.sn.no | I have one illusion; http://www.sn.no/~pixeleye/Index.htm | I have no illusions. From ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk Wed May 13 21:09:17 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65951 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 13 May 98 21:09:15 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895086590:12:02318:0; Wed, 13 May 98 19:09:50 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac1202274; 13 May 98 19:09 GMT Received: from gvine.demon.co.uk ([158.152.98.218]) by post.mail.demon.net id ab2001089; 13 May 98 19:09 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gvine.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Tue, 12 May 1998 23:11:53 GMT Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:11:44 +0100 From: Alan Muscat To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Various Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980512.024146.46@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: Grapevine Digital Arts X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60f In message <19980512.024146.46@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > From: Alan Muscat > > >Convince Mike Williams of Acorn Publisher to produce his mag using OPro > >instead of Impression, and methinks that many of his subscribers who are > >Imp users will follow suit. > > Actually there may be some startling news in this direction soon. Not > connected with Acorn Publisher I hasten to add. > > This is the argument that if I finished the professional side of things, > large images etc. I'm amazed that it should be an *argument*. For a package that calls itself *Pro* there should be no argument. So sod this maillist and the web site, and use the time to bring the application up to professional standards in the areas where it does not reach those standards.(Then update the web site and maintain this list: if you are being paid to maintain this list, then we are receiving free support; nice, but I'd rather go without if I knew the finishing touches were being put to the professional aspects of the application). I'd be interested in a full list of what *you* regard as the 'etc' you mentioned above. >then the high end users would move over, and although > there are not many of them, others would follow. Quite. -- Alan Muscat *************** Grapevine Digital Arts *********************** ************** http://www.gvine.demon.co.uk ********************* From i.a.goulbourne@ncl.ac.uk Wed May 13 22:05:31 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65960 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 13 May 98 22:05:30 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895090531:05:07726:8; Wed, 13 May 98 20:15:31 GMT Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.233.51]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0507661; 13 May 98 20:15 GMT Received: from niag.ncl.ac.uk by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id (8.7.6/ for ncl.ac.uk) with SMTP; Wed, 13 May 1998 21:15:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:52:12 +0100 (BST) From: Ian Goulbourne Subject: Re: Contents and index applets To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980513.013735.50@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] In on Wed 13 May, Jamie Lawrence wrote: > > > > can anyone help with locations for the !Contents applet - I can't find > > it anywhere. I've also had problems with the Index applet bombing out > > ith fatal error =5 etc. Is there a newer (ie better version) than 1.00 > > for Index > > > > I have an awful feeling that you could be talking about the > contents applet I wrote about a year ago. I've shut down my web site > since I'll soon be leaving uni. I'm terribly ashamed for ever > releasing the applet. Contents has been significantly improved (i.e. > it occasionally works now), but still cannot work over multiple > chapters. Hopefully I'll find a way around this. Does any applet > manage to search through multiple chapters? I know the script > documentation implies you can but it didn't work for me. > > I may re-release !Contents in the future when I can guarentee it will > work. My current advice is simply to delete the old version off your > hard disk - it really was very bad. Indeed I was! I don't use the contents application very often but when I have to, I really have to (in fact I was told to do so for a dissertation!) The program is not too bad, but I'm still struggling with the tab system in OP - I do think that the one in IP was a little easier I would encourage you to further develop your applet (please) Regarding the question of funding of development, could I suggest that the method used by Spacetech for charging for Plugins (special effects) would be a very reasonable way of proceding. As the applets/plugins etc were developed they could be bundled together eg loaders/savers as CC did The ability to load/save with Microsoft word would be one such and I would be willing to pay the going rate for this (not too much please) Ian -- Ian Goulbourne |__| |__| |__| Tynemouth | |__| |__| | Acorn RiscPC StrongARM Northumberland | | "Life's a beach in Tynemouth" |______________| *Remove NO.SPAM to reply* From i.a.goulbourne@ncl.ac.uk Wed May 13 22:05:47 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65962 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 13 May 98 22:05:45 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895090522:10:29990:0; Wed, 13 May 98 20:15:22 GMT Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.233.51]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1029729; 13 May 98 20:15 GMT Received: from niag.ncl.ac.uk by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id (8.7.6/ for ncl.ac.uk) with SMTP; Wed, 13 May 1998 21:15:11 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:45:16 +0100 (BST) From: Ian Goulbourne Subject: Re:Bulletted lists To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980513.013749.71@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] In on Wed 13 May, ? wrote: > >When I made the point to Beebug, John Wallace replied, on 5th August > >1996, that a numbering system, superior to Style's, was already > >written but not then debugged. 'We do plan to re-introduce it as part > >of the free update at the end of the year', ie the end of 1996. > > And where is Mr. Wallace now (when we need him)...?! [1] > > It's still only a short amount of work away from working. YES!! this IMHO is the feature that I miss the most from IP. I seem to be writing more and more lists and sublists these days (in medical writing). Would the bullet list have the ability to use special symbols or even bits of clip art for fancy work?? Ian -- Ian Goulbourne |__| |__| |__| Tynemouth | |__| |__| | Acorn RiscPC StrongARM Northumberland | | "Life's a beach in Tynemouth" |______________| *Remove NO.SPAM to reply* From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed May 13 22:47:55 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65967 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 13 May 98 22:47:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895093921:12:09012:1; Wed, 13 May 98 21:12:01 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0525586; 13 May 98 21:11 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yZiod-00065x-00; Wed, 13 May 1998 22:11:55 +0100 Date: Wed, 13 May 98 22:04:52 GMT Message-Id: <65958@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: "Sveinung W. Tengelsen" >PS - Yes, it'd be worth an upgrade charge. Although it *were* part of > the original spex AFAICR, we have gotten FOR FREE so many fancy > things not originally specced - imposition for one thing - that > 20-40 GBP would be in order for this one. Opinions? Problem with all this charged upgrade stuff, is that for a company like Beebug, a 20 quid upgrade doesn't make them any money. By the time you knock off tax, the cost of raw materials, paying someone to shift all the bits of paper about, management watching them etc. From: Alan Muscat >I'm amazed that it should be an *argument*. For a package that calls itself >*Pro* there should be no argument. Well, Mr. Wallaces parting words were "I'd do the large image stuff next". Personally I think I will do EPS support (including DCS), proxy images, and large image support (aka local OPI, or referenced images). It's not difficult and it will fit neatly into whats already there. I wonder if that covers all your requirements? I have a few more scanners to sort out before I start though. I've just finished the Canon Canoscan 2700F (2700dpi negative/slide scanner), after a major SCSI saga. Seems to be a nice scanner. >if you are being paid to maintain this list, then we are receiving free >support; I am on a simple royalty. Logically I should do what sells most copies. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From djh39@thor.cam.ac.uk Thu May 14 13:46:00 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66008 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 14 May 98 13:45:59 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895131832:10:15220:0; Thu, 14 May 98 07:43:52 GMT Received: from hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.39]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1015057; 14 May 98 7:43 GMT Received: from djh39 (helo=localhost) by hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.91 #1) for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 0yZsg3-0007PV-00; Thu, 14 May 1998 08:43:43 +0100 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:43:43 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Hawkins X-Sender: djh39@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: Dave Hawkins To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Re: Spelling In-Reply-To: <19980514.015240.19@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Dave Hawkins On Thu, 14 May 1998, Ariancylch wrote: > Quite possibly. But users are silly and want to do silly things, like > put `per se' in their documents :) Ah, but by analogy with UNIX, "OP shouldn't stop you doing things that are stupid because then you won't be able to do things that are clever" :) Anyway it's not that silly. > Hrm. I am (as may be clear) to a certain extent making this up as I go, So am I :) > In the case of 1, we will dictionary match the first two anyway (since > we have two-part words implemented) and upon encountering the third part > we'll simply find that it is in a pair that requires the second half of > the first pair (or, if necessary, requires the first pair). > In the case of 2, upon encountering the second part the system discovers > that this word not only requires a specific predecessor, but specifc > successors as well, so we simply pull the next n document-words and > check them. That looks OK, but it could get quite complicated. Dave From p.j.daniel@eee.salford.ac.uk Thu May 14 13:46:03 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66010 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 14 May 98 13:46:02 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895140014:10:20169:0; Thu, 14 May 98 10:00:14 GMT Received: from amalthea.salford.ac.uk ([146.87.255.61]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1020098; 14 May 98 10:00 GMT Received: (qmail 7999 invoked by alias); 14 May 1998 10:00:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19980514100009.7998.qmail@amalthea.salford.ac.uk> Received: (qmail 7993 invoked from network); 14 May 1998 10:00:09 -0000 Received: from ais-ne-048.salford.ac.uk (146.87.5.48) by amalthea.salford.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 May 1998 10:00:09 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Peter Daniel" Organization: University of Salford To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:59:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Question? X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Peter Daniel" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42) > I am on a simple royalty. Logically I should do what sells most copies. Just out of interest, can you tell us how many copies of Ovation Pro have been sold? Peter. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Visit my web-site: http://compsoc.man.ac.uk/~ulkesh/peter/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pete.bready@cableol.co.uk Thu May 14 13:48:54 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66017 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 14 May 98 13:48:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895129519:12:01784:3; Thu, 14 May 98 07:05:19 GMT Received: from mars.cableol.net ([194.168.4.224]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1201780; 14 May 98 7:05 GMT Received: from portia-62.cableol.net by mars.cableol.net; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Feb96-0403PM) id AA16892; Thu, 14 May 1998 08:05:16 +0100 Message-Id: <355B086E.B3F@cableol.co.uk> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:06:22 -0700 From: Pete Bready Organization: Home X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Numbering, bullets and other missing links References: <19980514.015253.33@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sveinung W. Tengelsen wrote: > > > Excuse me if I'm counting wrong, but will not the addition of the above > plus contents/index generation bring OP head-to-head with IP in the WP > department? Just checking. 8) > > PS - Yes, it'd be worth an upgrade charge. Although it *were* part of > the original spex AFAICR, we have gotten FOR FREE so many fancy > things not originally specced - imposition for one thing - that > 20-40 GBP would be in order for this one. Opinions? > Over the years I've been using Riscos for Wp/DTP, any 'serious' report/ essay etc I've had to type up used at least bullets, and occasionally numbering. My memory tells me that the earliest blurb about OvPro suggested that it would include these as part of the initial release - I've been waiting ever since. I'd like to see them implemented as part of the style system and not merely as effects - while I'm at it, can I again raise a point I posted some time ago - what about styles for all OvPro objects (lines, frames etc)? I also find myself regressing to IP to implement a feature I use on most essays/ theses - that of using IP's repeating frames as page headers to hold the current section (not necessarily chapter) title. Any chance of similar in Ovpro? While I'm not averse to a reasonable upgrade charge, it would have to contain some significant additions to warrant it - no, on reflection, we've had a lot of goodies added for free - it's maybe about time we paid up! Roll on Ovpro 3.0, and keep up the good work!!! Pete Bready From pixeleye@online.no Thu May 14 13:48:57 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66018 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 14 May 98 13:48:55 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895132118:12:13096:16; Thu, 14 May 98 07:48:38 GMT Received: from pilt.online.no ([193.212.1.34]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0509359; 14 May 98 7:47 GMT Received: from pixeleye.online.no (ti01a24-0085.dialup.online.no [130.67.8.85]) by online.no (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA05654 for ; Thu, 14 May 1998 09:47:53 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:46:36 +0000 (GMT+1) From: "Sveinung W. Tengelsen" Subject: Upgrade pricing To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980514.015320.38@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Sometimes. X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] On Thu 14 May, David Pilling wrote: > > From: "Sveinung W. Tengelsen" > > > Yes, it'd be worth an upgrade charge. Although it *were* part of > > the original spex AFAICR, we have gotten FOR FREE so many fancy > > things not originally specced - imposition for one thing - that > > 20-40 GBP would be in order for this one. Opinions? > > Problem with all this charged upgrade stuff, is that for a company like > Beebug, a 20 quid upgrade doesn't make them any money. By the time you > knock off tax, the cost of raw materials, paying someone to shift all > the bits of paper about, management watching them etc. Well. You obviously have to charge enough to keep rolling, economically speaking. I'd rather use a slightly expensive package and thus be assured of its further development than paying little/nothing for the upgrade just to see the company writing it going down (and hence no more developments). What I'm trying to say is that as far as I'm concerned, you may charge whatever you want for the upgrades in order to ensure your staying in business with OP. There will always be people who (implicitly) expect to get the results of someone else's hard work for free. 8) -- Best regards, Sveinung W. Tengelsen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- mailto:pixeleye@.sn.no | I have one illusion; http://www.sn.no/~pixeleye/Index.htm | I have no illusions. From nick.kaijaks@warwick.ac.uk Thu May 14 14:28:58 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66031 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 14 May 98 14:28:55 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895150685:10:24876:0; Thu, 14 May 98 12:58:05 GMT Received: from pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk ([137.205.192.19]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1128081; 14 May 98 12:58 GMT Received: from warwick.ac.uk (caiciss [137.205.160.38]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA24101; Thu, 14 May 1998 13:57:57 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <355AEA55.300FCCC4@warwick.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:57:57 +0100 From: Nick Kaijaks X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Various References: <19980514.015320.38@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Pilling wrote: > From: "Sveinung W. Tengelsen" > > >PS - Yes, it'd be worth an upgrade charge. Although it *were* part of > > the original spex AFAICR, we have gotten FOR FREE so many fancy > > things not originally specced - imposition for one thing - that > > 20-40 GBP would be in order for this one. Opinions? > > Problem with all this charged upgrade stuff, is that for a company like > Beebug, a 20 quid upgrade doesn't make them any money. By the time you > knock off tax, the cost of raw materials, paying someone to shift all > the bits of paper about, management watching them etc. A fair point. However, as long as you are covering the overheads, then surely profit is profit? Set the charge to something appropriate to the amount of work and which will cover distribution costs, and see if you get money come in. If people don't want it, they won't pay, so the overheads aren't an issue, and you lose nothing apart from the time spent doing work that's planned anyway. If people do pay, then there's more money in your pocket, we have a better application sooner, and everyone's cheery. Besides, there's always web upgrades. As has been suggested before, some of the keenest users will be happy to download stuff, at relatively low cost of distribution. Those without access can either pay for the extra overheads, find a cybercafe for half an hour, or wait until Acorn World/Wakefield and do it on the spot for cash. > From: Alan Muscat > > >I'm amazed that it should be an *argument*. For a package that calls itself > >*Pro* there should be no argument. > > Well, Mr. Wallaces parting words were "I'd do the large image stuff next". > > Personally I think I will do EPS support (including DCS), proxy images, and > large image support (aka local OPI, or referenced images). It's not difficult > and it will fit neatly into whats already there. > > I wonder if that covers all your requirements? That's pretty much my major requirements. I'm sure I can come up with more if you like ;-) Seriously though, OPI etc is pretty essential for digital prepress, and it would make it much easier to use the word 'Pro' without cause for hesitation. All IMHO, of course! Cheers, Nick -- nick kaijaks ~ pinxit design ~ for internet and print ~ http://come.to/pinxit mailto:Nick.Kaijaks@warwick.ac.uk orange:0966 188872 Disclaimer: caveat internettor From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu May 14 22:06:40 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66071 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 14 May 98 22:06:39 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895173769:05:11702:1; Thu, 14 May 98 19:22:49 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0511684; 14 May 98 19:22 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ya3aT-0001Y7-00; Thu, 14 May 1998 20:22:41 +0100 Date: Thu, 14 May 98 19:10:51 GMT Message-Id: <66060@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: "Peter Daniel" >Just out of interest, can you tell us how many copies of Ovation Pro >have been sold? Just over 2000. Sales are currently about 250 copies a year. (OPro has been available for about 2 years, so you can work out most sales were in the first year). >I also find myself regressing to IP to implement a feature I use on most >essays/ theses - that of using IP's repeating frames as page headers to >hold the current section (not necessarily chapter) title. Any chance of >similar in Ovpro? Thats a very interesting feature. We only caught on to the full implications at a very late stage. I always felt it was a bit like their local effects system - something which was an afterthought, but which does have some useful consequences. I guess in the current programs style, allowing different master pages for the first page and subsequent pages would be preferable. I can't think off hand of any reason why repeating frames are difficult. May depend on if they're supposed to be autolinked, or pose redo/undo problems. From: "Sveinung W. Tengelsen" >What I'm trying to say is that as far as I'm concerned, you may charge >whatever you want for the upgrades in order to ensure your staying in >business with OP. You can enter into a circle of diminishing returns, put up the price or charge for upgrades, alienate users, have to push up the prices again etc. Aside from the argument of what are we trying to do here - good software at reasonable prices I'd say. Against that you can set the 900 quid or whatever a copy of Quark costs, more sophisticated no doubt, but with a vast user base which should make it very cheap. From: Nick Kaijaks >If people don't want it, they won't pay, so the overheads aren't an issue, >and you lose nothing apart from the time spent doing work that's planned >anyway. It's quite bad that people who don't have web access have been left without any upgrades for a year now (except for Mike Williams offer in Acorn Publisher to send them the upgrade archives on disc). From a commercial angle though I think you look for a project which offers the greatest certainty of the greatest return. You don't just take a punt on six months work which might return nothing or at best might make a small return. Going on about this is not very user friendly and off topic. So to conclude, my analysis of the situation is that OPro is probably one of the last programs that will be developed for RISC OS by a purely commercial company. Beebug has (or had) staff who just worked there and got paid the going rate for the job. To employ people in that way you've got to attain a certain level of sales. They didn't, which is why we're now in the position of no staff, and hardly any revenue. For the future I think the software developer or publisher as an enthusiast is probably a viable model for the Acorn world. That doesn't get this project out of the woods though, because Beebug is still involved, and they can point to a large investment of time and money which has not been repaid. There are a lot of qualifications to the above. No, I'm not saying that my former colleagues didn't care. No, I couldn't have written OPro without their input and encouragement. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From m.r.devon@bath.ac.uk Fri May 15 13:49:30 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66146 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 15 May 98 13:49:28 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895217761:12:16221:0; Fri, 15 May 98 07:36:01 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk ([138.38.32.2]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1216188; 15 May 98 7:35 GMT Received: (qmail 13400 invoked from network); 15 May 1998 07:35:52 -0000 Received: from midge.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.34) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 May 1998 07:35:52 -0000 Received: from ppp11-annex.bath.ac.uk by midge.bath.ac.uk id aa12565; 15 May 98 8:35 BST Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:18:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Martin Devon Subject: Re: Upgrade pricing To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980515.020946.87@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: M.R. Devon Consulting Engineer, Bath X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] On Fri 15 May, Sveinung W. Tengelsen wrote: > What I'm trying to say is that as far as I'm concerned, you may charge > whatever you want for the upgrades in order to ensure your staying in > business with OP. There will always be people who (implicitly) expect to > get the results of someone else's hard work for free. 8) Would David consider doing it this way: take the sum required annually to assure a continued flow of development, and divide it between the number of copies in use? How much would that come to, each? We would happily pay at least 100 a year for our site licence, which would still be very cheap for our most-used piece of software, compared with Microsoft maintenance! For comparison, we pay 400 ukp a year for subscription to Britannica on line, 150 for The Times CDROM quarterly updates, 200 for ECCTIS CDROM quarterly and, perhaps the nearest equivalent, 250 a year for Navaho, which is progressing by leaps and bounds. Martin Devon Stonar School -- From hcooke@argonet.co.uk Fri May 15 13:49:33 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66148 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 15 May 98 13:49:31 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895218607:12:20497:9; Fri, 15 May 98 07:50:07 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0505844; 15 May 98 7:49 GMT Received: from (193.130.250.196) [193.130.250.196] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yaFFa-0006OQ-00; Fri, 15 May 1998 08:49:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Heather Cooke To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 23:55:35 +0100 Message-ID: <484653aa37hcooke@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.06b for RISC OS 3.5 Subject: Re: Various In-Reply-To: <19980514.015300.48@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 14 May, Alan Muscat wrote: > So sod this maillist and the web site, and use the time to bring > the application up to professional standards in the areas where it > does not reach those standards.(Then update the web site and > maintain this list: if you are being paid to maintain this list, > then we are receiving free support; nice, but I'd rather go without > if I knew the finishing touches were being put to the professional > aspects of the application). Here, here. Could the mail list not transform into an Ovation newsgroup for mutual self-help and leave David to produce Ovation in a non-memory hungry form that can rival the non-experts DTP standby Impression? Heather -- hcooke@argonet.co.uk & h.cooke@open.ac.uk From petecollins@argonet.co.uk Fri May 15 13:49:36 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66151 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 15 May 98 13:49:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895227371:12:12551:35; Fri, 15 May 98 10:16:11 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0525513; 15 May 98 10:16 GMT Received: from (193.130.245.52) [193.130.245.52] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yaHWy-0000A1-00; Fri, 15 May 1998 11:16:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Peter Collins) Reply-To: petecollins@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 14 May 98 20:42:46 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Printing with 2.49 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: I finally got around to upgrading from the website to version 2.49. Tonight I have tried to design a piece of work with 5 frames. One frame was two column. Also I bordered the main frame on the master page. On the first trial printing I got the border on the main frame and print in 4 frames but nothing in the 2 column frame except the guidlines. The second time I just got the main frame bored and a graphic in one frame. No text at all printed but I still got the guidelines. I am using a RISC PC with strongarm and a turbodriver. Any thoughts?! Pete Collins -- Argonet...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines petecollins@argonet.co.uk Travelling with a companion is sometimes an adventure and occasionally more enjoyable;travelling alone is sometimes less enjoyable, but always an adventure....John Hatt From bernard.hill@virgin.net Fri May 15 22:37:17 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66191 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 15 May 98 22:37:15 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895267008:12:28664:6; Fri, 15 May 98 21:16:48 GMT Received: from newmail.virgin.net ([194.168.54.44]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0503730; 15 May 98 21:16 GMT Received: from bernard.hill.virgin.net ([194.168.68.139]) by newmail.virgin.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 1-55555U125000L125000S0) with SMTP id AAA21264 for ; Fri, 15 May 1998 21:16:29 +0000 Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 22:17:30 +0100 (BST) From: "Bernard G. Hill" Subject: OP and Typography To: Ovation Mail Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Bernard G. Hill, Telephone/Fax:01633 880197 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] I find it difficult to say what I want to say without giving offence, certainly none is intended. I have the greatest respect for programmers and marvel at what they can achieve but suggest that they are not always the best people to the way their efforts appear to the user. OP works well and I find that I can do mostly what I want to do, but sometimes the program gets in the way. The things which I mention now have all been raised by other people but I raise them again because I think that they are very important to a typographer. It should not be necessary to go through a menu to change a type size and I find it particularly galling to have to go to three stages to change leading. These two features are fundamental to typography and consequently should be readily accessible. I am also surprised that the leadering string is not related to the tab but is set to be the same for all tabs. Just how do you set up a concert programme with decimal tabbed numbered items followed by a tabbed description followed by a tabbed leadered third item? Those blessed leadering strings get in everywhere. I don't want to sound like a traitor but the professional Mac people think this situation a joke. It's no good being able to do the fancy stuff if you can't do the basics easily. Mind you, I think that the display on the other systems just as much a joke and is probably the principal reason I am an Acorn enthusiast. Have you tried to do any fine letter-spacing on a PC or Mac? How's this for pessimism? When JAVA gets going and the big boys convert their programs, will we still be running OP? I would like to think so and I would like to think that OP would be the first choice on all the other platforms too but are the resources available to make the conversion? Cheer up everyone, we're not dead yet! Berni. -- Bernard G. Hill Tel/Fax: 01633 880197 Zion, Church Road Undy, Newport e-mail bernard.hill@virgin.net Monmouthshire NP6 3EN From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Sat May 16 01:42:51 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66194 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 16 May 98 01:42:50 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895268329:10:24012:1; Fri, 15 May 98 21:38:49 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1119036; 15 May 98 21:38 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yaSBf-0003Js-00; Fri, 15 May 1998 22:38:43 +0100 Date: Fri, 15 May 98 22:37:52 GMT Message-Id: <66192@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From:(Peter Collins) >I finally got around to upgrading from the website to version 2.49. >Tonight I have tried to design a piece of work with 5 frames. One frame was two >column. Also I bordered the main frame on the master page. >On the first trial printing I got the border on the main frame and print in 4 >frames but nothing in the 2 column frame except the guidlines. >The second time I just got the main frame bored and a graphic in one frame. No >text at all printed but I still got the guidelines. >I am using a RISC PC with strongarm and a turbodriver. >Any thoughts?! Hmm. First thought what happens with an Acorn driver. Second thought is this really a 2.49 problem - obviously try printing from 2.46, but even then it may be the configuration of 2.49, or loaded applets that are the problem. There are all the usual suspects like funny fonts. From: "Bernard G. Hill" >I have the greatest respect for programmers and marvel at >what they can achieve but suggest that they are not always the best people to > the way their efforts appear to the user. If you're talking about present company, I'd point out that the user interface of OPro was largely designed by non-programmers. Most of these user interface things which folk hate, were specified by someone who sat studying DTP programs for five years >I am also surprised that the leadering string is not related to the tab but >is set to be the same for all tabs. I'll see what I can do... >When JAVA gets going and the big boys convert their programs, will we still >be running OP? Since this will be about the time Mr. Gates spends his last dollar, and Beelzebub buys a snowmobile, I'm not so sure. From: Heather Cooke >Could the mail list not transform into an Ovation newsgroup for >mutual self-help and leave David to produce Ovation in a non-memory >hungry form that can rival the non-experts DTP standby Impression? I intend to arrange things in a more programmer friendly way shortly. As to memory, I believe you can buy a 32Mb SIMM for 60 odd quid. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From keithp@argonet.co.uk Sat May 16 14:41:43 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66218 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 16 May 98 14:41:42 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895324813:10:20786:0; Sat, 16 May 98 13:20:13 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1121633; 16 May 98 13:20 GMT Received: from (193.130.250.167) [193.130.250.167] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yagsj-0000sH-00; Sat, 16 May 1998 14:20:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Keith Parker) To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 22:52:17 +0100 X-Organization: Argonet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: ArgoNet 'Voyager' Email Program 1.18 : aa Subject: Re: Numbering, bullets and other missing links Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: On Thu 14 May 98 (01:52:53 +0100), pixeleye@online.no wrote: > Excuse me if I'm counting wrong, but will not the addition of the above > plus contents/index generation bring OP head-to-head with IP in the WP > department? Just checking. 8) Yes ... totally :-) > PS - Yes, it'd be worth an upgrade charge. Although it *were* part of > the original spex AFAICR, we have gotten FOR FREE so many fancy > things not originally specced - imposition for one thing - that > 20-40 GBP would be in order for this one. Opinions? Sorry but its yes again :-) Imposition is a great advantage which was never ever possible on IP and is well worth a hefty upgrade charge in its own right. If we want, which I hope we all do, OPro to continue to be actively developed then we must expect to pay for this. After all, Xpress costs a fair bit more (even from box-shifters) than ukp193 and the upgrade costs are substantial. Just my 2p. Keith -- keithp@argonet.co.uk | suep@argonet.co.uk Supporting British RISC technology :-) | A teacher using PCs and Macs :-( From pblenkinsop@moose.co.uk Sat May 16 14:41:54 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66217 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 16 May 98 14:41:41 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895307765:05:05858:0; Sat, 16 May 98 08:36:05 GMT Received: from moose.co.uk ([195.166.48.17]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0505833; 16 May 98 8:36 GMT Received: from pblenkinsop.moose.co.uk (195.166.48.215) by moose.co.uk with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1); Sat, 16 May 1998 09:33:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Peter Blenkinsop To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 09:28:07 +0100 Message-ID: <48470beb13pblenkinsop@moose.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.5 Subject: Re: Various In-Reply-To: <19980514.015235.06@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 14 May, Ariancylch wrote: > In message <19980513.013825.93@pilling.demon.co.uk> > rayd@argonet.co.uk (Ray Dawson) wrote: > > On 12 May, Peter Blenkinsop wrote: > > > On 09 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > > > > > > How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for > > > > increasing sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the > > > > solution lies in selling more copies rather than charging current > > > > users for support. > > > > > > > You need an Impression loader to persuade users, in schools for > > > example, to move to OP. I am in one such school. > > > > You've got an Impression loader - which works very well - but you have > > to transfer graphics and separate frames by hand. > And only works if you've got some version of Impression itself. > Personally I prefer double-clicking on Impression files and having them > end up in OvationPro. Whether or not that's how it'll be implemented I > don't know, however. The secretarial staff in my school do not want to have to think about which program, which file etc. They want to click and get typing. It has to be that transparent. Then we would buy a site liscence for education and for admin. Otherwise we keep using Publisher for both. -- I'm going to have an anti-spam remove so complicated that only very, very bright people will be able to undersand and reply to me. Peter Blenkinsop Acorn RiscPC/Pluto/ANT From nico.terhaar@tip.nl Sat May 16 17:11:02 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66247 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 16 May 98 17:11:01 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895326573:10:16843:0; Sat, 16 May 98 13:49:33 GMT Received: from helium.tip.nl ([195.18.64.71]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1105618; 16 May 98 13:49 GMT Received: from t669454.tip.nl by helium.tip.nl with smtp (Smail3.2 #23) id m0yahON-001XaYC; Sat, 16 May 1998 15:52:51 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:48:20 +0200 (BST) From: Nico ter Haar Subject: Re: Upgrade pricing To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980516.020632.77@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Pulstar, Eck en Wiel, the Netherlands. X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] In on Sat 16 May, Martin Devon wrote: > On Fri 15 May, Sveinung W. Tengelsen wrote: > > > What I'm trying to say is that as far as I'm concerned, you may charge > > whatever you want for the upgrades in order to ensure your staying in > > business with OP. There will always be people who (implicitly) expect to > > get the results of someone else's hard work for free. 8) > > Would David consider doing it this way: take the sum required annually to > assure a continued flow of development, and divide it between the number of > copies in use? How much would that come to, each? > > We would happily pay at least 100 a year for our site licence, which would > still be very cheap for our most-used piece of software, compared with > Microsoft maintenance! > How many people are using OvPro? Or is the site licence unlimited to the number of people. I would be willing to pay an additional yearly amount to assure we do get regular updates/enhancements etc. But paying a 100UKP a year is far to much as far as I'm concerned, I'm a hobbyist not a school/company or such like. > For comparison, we pay 400 ukp a year for subscription to Britannica on > line, 150 for The Times CDROM quarterly updates, 200 for ECCTIS CDROM > quarterly and, perhaps the nearest equivalent, 250 a year for Navaho, which > is progressing by leaps and bounds. > Again if you split these amounts over the number of people using them you will get an amount of 1 UKP a person a year which is very low indeed. nico -- Nico ter Haar, StrongARM 202MHz at home! nico.terhaar@tip.nl ----> Acorn FoonGrep2 - NOW supporting the March 1998 CDfoon ! Pulstar Pages WWW site -- http://www.tip.nl/users/nico.terhaar/ From hcooke@argonet.co.uk Sat May 16 17:20:04 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66253 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 16 May 98 17:20:01 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895335156:12:17969:4; Sat, 16 May 98 16:12:36 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1217930; 16 May 98 16:12 GMT Received: from (193.130.251.45) [193.130.251.45] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yajZG-0002kD-00; Sat, 16 May 1998 17:12:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Heather Cooke To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:00:34 +0100 Message-ID: <484719e024hcooke@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.06b for RISC OS 3.5 Subject: Re: Various In-Reply-To: <19980516.020700.12@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 16 May, David Pilling wrote: > From: Heather Cooke > >Could the mail list not transform into an Ovation newsgroup for > >mutual self-help and leave David to produce Ovation in a > >non-memory hungry form that can rival the non-experts DTP standby > >Impression? > I intend to arrange things in a more programmer friendly way > shortly. good >As to memory, I believe you can buy a 32Mb SIMM for 60 odd > quid. David! That is a Gates type answer!! Heather -- hcooke@argonet.co.uk & h.cooke@open.ac.uk From ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk Mon May 18 22:22:52 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66265 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 18 May 98 22:22:50 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895341219:05:02927:1; Sat, 16 May 98 17:53:39 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1209641; 16 May 98 17:53 GMT Received: from gvine.demon.co.uk ([158.152.98.218]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1005234; 16 May 98 17:53 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gvine.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Fri, 15 May 1998 20:21:55 GMT Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 21:21:44 +0100 From: Alan Muscat To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Various Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980514.015320.38@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: Grapevine Digital Arts X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60f > From: Alan Muscat > > >I'm amazed that it should be an *argument*. For a package that calls itself > >*Pro* there should be no argument. > > Well, Mr. Wallaces parting words were "I'd do the large image stuff next". > > Personally I think I will do EPS support (including DCS), proxy images, and > large image support (aka local OPI, or referenced images). It's not difficult > and it will fit neatly into whats already there. > > I wonder if that covers all your requirements? That'll do nicely, Sir. The DCS is a nice bonus. > > >if you are being paid to maintain this list, then we are receiving free > >support; > > I am on a simple royalty. Logically I should do what sells most copies. And does maintaining this list sell copies??? I shouldn't think so. -- Alan Muscat *************** Grapevine Digital Arts *********************** ************** http://www.gvine.demon.co.uk ********************* From ian@keinyuri.u-net.com Mon May 18 22:23:01 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66267 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 18 May 98 22:22:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895351104:12:14337:18; Sat, 16 May 98 20:38:24 GMT Received: from hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net ([195.102.240.153]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1525046; 16 May 98 20:38 GMT Received: from keinyuri.u-net.com [195.102.197.112] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yanhv-0002zc-00; Sat, 16 May 1998 20:37:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: ian To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:36:11 +0100 Message-ID: <48474e9310ian@keinyuri.u-net.com> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Un-deletable pages Content-Type: text/plain I've just come across this "feature" in OP 2.49. I have a story totalling 486 pages of text across 14 chapters. The problem is that OP insists that there are 512 pages, and any attempt to delete the excess blank pages results in them instantly being re-inserted! Any ideas? -- Ian Worrall mailto: ian@keinyuri.u-net.com From jacorn@ibm.net Mon May 18 22:23:10 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66273 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 18 May 98 22:23:08 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895406248:12:29779:0; Sun, 17 May 98 11:57:28 GMT Received: from out5.ibm.net ([165.87.194.245]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0513238; 17 May 98 11:57 GMT Received: from jacorn.ibm.net (slip139-92-82-53.bar.es.ibm.net [139.92.82.53]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA27 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:55:23 +0200 (BST) From: "James White (Sibelius in Spain)" Subject: Re: OP and Typography To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980516.020653.16@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: James White (Sibelius in Spain) X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by out5.ibm.net id LAA279918 On Sat 16 May, "Bernard G. Hill" wrote: >=20 > I find it difficult to say what I want to say without giving offence, c= ertainly > none is intended.=20 8-> I have the greatest respect for programmers and marvel at > what they can achieve but suggest that they are not always the best peo= ple to > the way their efforts appear to the user. OP works well and I = find > that I can do mostly what I want to do, but sometimes the program gets = in the > way. >=20 > The things which I mention now have all been raised by other people=20 Including, might I say, a certain Bernard G. Hill. and I quote: On Tue 10 Feb, 1998, David Pilling wrote: >=20 > > From: "Bernard G. Hill" > > >On thing I would like to be able to see and easily change without goin= g through > >menus, is the leading which is being used at the cursor point in the t= ext. > >Could this be part of the the Info Palette? > to which David replied: > Space is limited on the info pal. Could be an addon palette though. > I recall defining some key presses in this list a few months back > to allow easy stepping of leading. > David had kindly done this for me - but I applied it to buttons, rather than key presses, as it was more convenient for me. So I replied to the list, quoting an even earlier letter - April '97:- ............. >Can this be done with a button macro? Yes - good idea! A macro akin to this will increase the leading, { string s,p,q; int n; getleading(s); p=3Dq=3D""; if(schar(s,0)=3D=3D'-' || schar(s,0)=3D=3D'+') p=3Dmids(s,0,1); if(schar(s,slen(s)-1)=3D=3D'%') q=3D"%"; n=3Dstoi(s)+1; s=3Dp+itos(n)+q; setleading(s); } change the +1 to -1 to decrease it. Attach that to a couple of buttons or keys... David Pilling ...........] did you miss the above reply then, Bernard? because you say: >but I raise > them again because I think that they are very important to a typographe= r. > or did you have dificulty typing in the code and getting it to work? The email MIME often changes the coding in places. and then just to prove that you havn't looked at the OP manual p.252, or the Quick Reference Guide, you say: > It should not be necessary to go through a menu to change a type size=20 and so it isn't; use Ctrl < or Ctrl > >and I > find it particularly galling to have to go to three stages to change le= ading. > These two features are fundamental to typography and consequently shoul= d be > readily accessible. > I don't want to sound like a traitor but the professional Mac people th= ink this > situation a joke.=20 Please go and tell your professional Mac people to joke on the other side of their faces, there's a good lad. --=20 -------------------------------------------- Sibelius in Spain mailto:jacorn@ibm.net Sibelius in Andaluc=EDa mailto:pmoya@valnet.es -------------------------------------------- From julian@southern.co.nz Mon May 18 22:23:17 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66277 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 18 May 98 22:23:15 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895432418:12:24943:4; Sun, 17 May 98 19:13:38 GMT Received: from cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1511304; 17 May 98 19:13 GMT Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (pppd011.netaccess.co.nz [202.27.186.11]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA12740 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:13:53 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Sun,17 May 1998.23:21:42 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:20:54 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Spelling Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980515.020928.32@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980515.020928.32@pilling.demon.co.uk> djh39@cam.ac.uk (Dave Hawkins) wrote: > On Thu, 14 May 1998, Ariancylch wrote: > > > Quite possibly. But users are silly and want to do silly things, > > like put `per se' in their documents :) > > Ah, but by analogy with UNIX, "OP shouldn't stop you doing things that > are stupid because then you won't be able to do things that are > clever" :) And unix got it right? :) > > In the case of 1, we will dictionary match the first two anyway > > (since we have two-part words implemented) and upon encountering the > > third part we'll simply find that it is in a pair that requires the > > second half of the first pair (or, if necessary, requires the first > > pair). > > In the case of 2, upon encountering the second part the system > > discovers that this word not only requires a specific predecessor, > > but specifc successors as well, so we simply pull the next n > > document-words and check them. > > That looks OK, but it could get quite complicated. "Nothing's complicated to someone who doesn't have to implement it." -- I won't use words again | Faith | May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant |manages| and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said | - JMS | places where you must walk From ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk Mon May 18 22:23:21 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66278 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 18 May 98 22:23:19 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895436516:12:10069:0; Sun, 17 May 98 20:21:56 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1523489; 17 May 98 20:21 GMT Received: from (gvine.demon.co.uk) [158.152.98.218] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yb9wM-0000aV-00; Sun, 17 May 1998 21:21:51 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gvine.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Sun, 17 May 1998 20:02:07 GMT Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 21:01:57 +0100 From: Alan Muscat To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Various Message-ID: <1247cf4748%ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <19980516.020639.66@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: Grapevine Digital Arts X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60f In message <19980516.020639.66@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > On 14 May, Alan Muscat wrote: > > So sod this maillist and the web site, and use the time to bring > > the application up to professional standards in the areas where it > > does not reach those standards.(Then update the web site and > > maintain this list: if you are being paid to maintain this list, > > then we are receiving free support; nice, but I'd rather go without > > if I knew the finishing touches were being put to the professional > > aspects of the application). > > Here, here. > > Could the mail list not transform into an Ovation newsgroup for > mutual self-help and leave David to produce Ovation in a non-memory > hungry form that can rival the non-experts DTP standby Impression? > Heather > Well, if the non-memory hungry version is for older machines that can't take more memory, then fair enough. But otherwise memory is unimportant since RAM is so cheap now. I guess there are a lot of schools out there who are still using the A series macchines, though. -- Alan Muscat Choose Acorn - 24 users can't all be wrong. *************** Grapevine Digital Arts *********************** ************** http://www.gvine.demon.co.uk ********************* From aca95jel@sheffield.ac.uk Mon May 18 22:23:46 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66293 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 18 May 98 22:23:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895499049:05:24927:7; Mon, 18 May 98 13:44:09 GMT Received: from pp2.shef.ac.uk ([143.167.1.32]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1500480; 18 May 98 13:43 GMT Received: from broadstone.shef.ac.uk [143.167.23.251] by pp2.shef.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0ybQCk-000460-00; Mon, 18 May 1998 14:43:50 +0100 Received: from BROADSTONE/SpoolDir by broadstone.shef.ac.uk (Mercury 1.40); 18 May 98 14:43:52 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by BROADSTONE (Mercury 1.40); 18 May 98 14:43:37 +0100 From: "Jamie Lawrence" To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:43:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Contents and index applets and others X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Jamie Lawrence" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.31 Message-ID: > > I may re-release !Contents in the future when I can guarentee it > > work. My current advice is simply to delete the old version off your > > hard disk - it really was very bad. > Indeed I was! > > I don't use the contents application very often but when I have to, I > really have to (in fact I was told to do so for a dissertation!) > > The program is not too bad, but I'm still struggling with the tab system > in OP - I do think that the one in IP was a little > easier > I would encourage you to further develop your applet (please) Well, having just finished my own dissertation (and not knowing what to do with all my spare time) I've had a look back at my Contents applet. It now work over multiple chapters (thanks for hint about !Index, David), and it now works (!). I'll leave it for another few days before making it public so that I have time to try it on as many files as possible. Also, I have a references applet and one which does basic bulleted lists. The bulleted lists applet will take me another few days to figure out (I've forgotten what I've written) and update. Maybe I'll make them all public next week - I'll obviously notify this list when I do. Jamie From frank@watsnees.demon.co.uk Mon May 18 22:23:51 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66296 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 18 May 98 22:23:49 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895442000:10:23592:1; Sun, 17 May 98 21:53:20 GMT Received: from post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.40]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1023475; 17 May 98 21:53 GMT Received: from (watsnees.demon.co.uk) [194.222.88.143] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ybBMo-0001bD-00; Sun, 17 May 1998 21:53:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Frank Watkinson To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:05:33 +0100 Message-ID: <4847bf2067frank@watsnees.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Various In-Reply-To: <19980516.020700.12@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 16 May, David Pilling wrote: > I intend to arrange things in a more programmer friendly way > shortly. As to memory, I believe you can buy a 32Mb SIMM for 60 odd > quid. According to APDL catalogue file dated 31 March 1998, 32 Mb SIMM was 49 ukp to buy outright. However, cheaper large SIMMs will not help the pre-RISC PC users, which includes a lot of school machines! Do we need two versions (as with the *former* Publisher and Publisher Plus): one for less professional users (including schools) and one for the *ultimate* professionals who need to send work to a printer in a state equivalent to that produced by Quark? There must be a very large proportion of users who want the maximum of DTP/WP functions without the final embellishments of OPI, etc. This leads naturally to the two price structure (as with Publisher/Plus) in which users can identify that they are paying for what they want. Naturally, this would mean that those wanting the Quark equivalent should not be surprised to find that the price was similar. {8-)> (Toupee, spectacles and beard? but nevertheless smiling!) Regards. Frank. -- Frank Watkinson. email: using !Pluto 1.08g on RPC, SA, OS 3.70, Window Manager 3.97. From janvredenb@access.ch Mon May 18 22:23:58 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66299 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 18 May 98 22:23:54 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895515036:12:17183:3; Mon, 18 May 98 18:10:36 GMT Received: from atlantica.access.ch ([193.246.40.1]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1217164; 18 May 98 18:10 GMT Received: from janvredenb.access.ch by atlantica.access.ch (8.8.5/INA-1.05pri) id UAA27859; Mon, 18 May 1998 20:10:26 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:54:06 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: OP and Typography To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980516.020653.16@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: JMvV: tel +41 41 3706124; fax +41 41 3706120 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] On Sat 16 May, "Bernard G. Hill" wrote: > > I find it difficult to say what I want to say without giving offence, ... Allow me the same excuse for my following reactions to your mailing. ;-) I am snipping some of your text but keep the essentials in what follows. > none is intended. I have the greatest respect for programmers and marvel at > what they can achieve but suggest that they are not always the best people to > the way their efforts appear to the user. Totally correct. But then you, as a must try to explain to the programmer how/why. > OP works well and I find that I can do mostly what I want to do, but > sometimes the program gets in the way. Are you sure? OP has quite a few shortcuts but you must know where they are. If you are an expert in using Impression, do not believe to master OP in a few minutes. Have you ever thought of the time it took you in the past to master Impression or whatever it is you use on a Mac or Dos-PC? ......... > The things which I mention now have all been raised by other people but ... Indeed, at least some of them. And to be frank, I have to squeeze in time to read all the mailings. > I raise them again because I think that they are very important to a typographer. Excellent, this is the kind of info we need to know! > It should not be necessary to go through a menu to change a type size ... There is a toolbox on screen at the bottom of your document. Unless you disabled this. Certainly in the beginning let the program give you all help which is available. > find it particularly galling to have to go to three stages to change > leading. So would I. There are also key short cuts, many if not most of them mentioned in the "Quick Reference Guide". I created a new one for myself. In a nice plastic cover. > These two features are fundamental to typography and consequently should be > readily accessible. They are. > I am also surprised that the leadering string is not related to the tab > but is set to be the same for all tabs. Just how do you set up a concert > programme with decimal tabbed numbered items followed by a tabbed > description followed by a tabbed leadered third item? Those blessed > leadering strings get in everywhere. The macro file has 2 definitions for leadering. Not too difficult to add some additional key shortcuts for what you want to have. It might be difficult to find "free keys". And maybe Mr Pilling can give a suggestion how to program such a macro for repeated up-leadering or down-leadering. If he has time to spare [ 8-( ] as he has some other priorities. General remark: At times I do get the feeling that one wants OP to render text and layout automatically. I do suggest that such wishful thinking be postponed until not only that our DTC's (=desktop computers) be able to understand snip > Cheer up everyone, we're not dead yet! Yeah, but how do you tell other people. My neighbour has a Windows/PC. Honnest truth, at least once a month he complains to me that his computer crashed and that he needs outside help to get going. We, at least when having a RiscPC, hit the "Panic Button" at the rear of the computer and are back in businness. And in case we accidently foul up the "Config" data in the reserved RAM area, a <"R2 or "Delete" power up> saves the day. I know because an illiterate computer friend succeeded in locking the main hard disc. 8-(( Realize how lucky you are to be able to use OvationPro! The main problem, and that goes for all Acorn programs. The programs should be multi-lingual. Or to put it bluntly, the programmers must seek international language recognition. Meaning that OvationPro must have its menu's available in foreign languages. Especially, Spanish, German and French. At least Beebug's Sleuth3 recognizes 4 languages. It's good. Actually very good for the price you pay compared to other programs with the same pricing. The only thing is that the menu's have not yet been translated... Regards JMvV -- JM van Vredenburch; tel +41 41 3706125 | Acorn Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) .. From steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk Mon May 18 23:10:03 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66321 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 18 May 98 23:10:01 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895527498:10:28484:0; Mon, 18 May 98 21:38:18 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1109040; 18 May 98 21:38 GMT Received: from (193.130.253.23) [193.130.253.23] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ybXbj-0006iR-00; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:38:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 09:41:34 +0100 Message-ID: <484790fc87steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Upgrade pricing In-Reply-To: <19980516.020632.77@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 16 May, Martin Devon wrote: > Would David consider doing it this way: take the sum required annually > to assure a continued flow of development, and divide it between the > number of copies in use? How much would that come to, each? Wouldn't work I'm afraid. Experience of the world in general suggests that only a 'handful' of people (probably a high percentage of those contributing to this maillist) would part with the cash. All the others sitting back and waiting for a free upgrade would pox up the cash flow. * SteveP -- steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk or camra@argonet.co.uk for CAMRA items ZFC Zr *** "Cheer up Lad, think of the Derby Trip!!" *** - Wallace looking forward to Derby Beer Festival... From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Mon May 18 23:14:37 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66325 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 18 May 98 23:14:35 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895529442:12:29168:5; Mon, 18 May 98 22:10:42 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1521603; 18 May 98 22:10 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ybY7D-0004bB-00; Mon, 18 May 1998 23:10:39 +0100 Date: Mon, 18 May 98 23:03:50 GMT Message-Id: <66311@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: Alan Muscat >> I am on a simple royalty. Logically I should do what sells most copies. >And does maintaining this list sell copies??? I shouldn't think so. I must be naive. I always thought that if a program was well supported you'd all tell your friends, who would then buy it. And if not well, it'd get slagged off. From: ian >I have a story totalling 486 pages of text across 14 chapters. >The problem is that OP insists that there are 512 pages, and any >attempt to delete the excess blank pages results in them instantly >being re-inserted! If there is some reason why OPro thinks the text should fill 512 pages then it will make it do so. For example your text could contain new page codes and/or some of the text may not fit on OPro's pages. How do you know there are exactly 486 pages? From: Alan Muscat >Well, if the non-memory hungry version is for older machines that can't >take more memory, then fair enough. But otherwise memory is unimportant >since RAM is so cheap now. I guess there are a lot of schools out there >who are still using the A series macchines, though. I feel that for the features provided OPro is not too big. In programming you can usuaully trade speed or functionality for less memory. I tended to go for the former. True if the program was smaller it would probably have sold a few more copies. But it is now too late to go back. Many of those old machines are going to be replaced with PC's - so although folk may say they'd buy OPro if it ran in 2Mb or whatever, they would not. Finally like happy farmers, users asking for major features to be removed are in short supply. From: Frank Watkinson >Do we need two versions (as with the *former* Publisher and Publisher >Plus): one for less professional users (including schools) and one >for the *ultimate* professionals who need to send work to a printer >in a state equivalent to that produced by Quark? We were originally going to do a cut down version. But given the current lack of resources, I think there's no chance now. Personally I'm not keen on the cut down program concept either. If I had my way the colour supplement would be bundled free with all copies of OPro. I think they've only sold half a dozen. From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch >The main problem, and that goes for all Acorn programs. The programs should >be multi-lingual. Or to put it bluntly, the programmers must seek >international language recognition. Meaning that OvationPro must have its >menu's available in foreign languages. Especially, Spanish, German and >French. There is a German version of OPro available from Uffenkamp. I think work is in progress on a Dutch version. Certainly if anyone has the inclination, producing a new language version just consists of translating some files. From: Steven Pampling >Wouldn't work I'm afraid. Experience of the world in general suggests that >only a 'handful' of people (probably a high percentage of those >contributing to this maillist) would part with the cash. As I said you alienate people too, someone would end up paying just to get some simple bug fixed. i.e. they don't want all the new stuff, but they do want some bug fixing, and that is only fixed in a post paid upgrade version. From: Kevin Simpson >By the way, could you include non-local OPI? We'll see. If I can get hold of the protocol. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From kevin@wcartsco.demon.co.uk Tue May 19 02:43:16 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66369 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 19 May 98 02:43:14 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895539036:12:07187:7; Tue, 19 May 98 00:50:36 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1207127; 19 May 98 0:50 GMT Received: from wcartsco.demon.co.uk ([158.152.233.63]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2023525; 19 May 98 0:49 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wcartsco.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Mon, 18 May 1998 00:22:55 GMT Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 01:22:47 +0100 From: Kevin Simpson To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Various Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980514.015320.38@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: The Western Commercial Arts Co. X-Mailer: Messenger v1.02 for RISC OS X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59d In message <19980514.015320.38@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > Personally I think I will do EPS support (including DCS), proxy images, and > large image support (aka local OPI, or referenced images). It's not difficult > and it will fit neatly into whats already there. I would feel a bit guilty if all this happened together and I got it as a free upgrade. It sounds like a major increase in OPro usefulness and capability to me. Especially in view of recent posts: have you considered making this a chargeable upgrade or a "Power-user Supplement" applet like the Colour Supplement? By the way, could you include non-local OPI? I want to use scans from my bureau. I'm sure lots of people could send sample LR images to you: according to CC (about two years ago), 95% of systems adhere to one of only 7 different OPI standards. Kevin. -- Kevin Simpson BA(Hons) The Western Commercial Arts Co. http://www.wcartsco.demon.co.uk graphic design - typeface design - typography - illustration - printing From kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Tue May 19 13:53:13 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66422 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 19 May 98 13:53:12 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895564014:10:25676:0; Tue, 19 May 98 07:46:54 GMT Received: from hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk ([147.143.102.8]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1124866; 19 May 98 7:46 GMT From: Mr J P Kerslake Date: Tue, 19 May 98 08:46:51 BST Message-Id: <12694.9805190746@hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk> Received: from aphrodite.sees.bangor.ac.uk by hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk; Tue, 19 May 98 08:46:51 BST To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Un-deletable pages > From root@pilling.demon.co.uk Tue May 19 03:21:22 1998 > From:(ian) > Sender: root@pilling.demon.co.uk > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 03:13:32 +0100 > Organization: > Subject: Un-deletable pages > To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L > Reply-To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk > X-Posting-Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:36:11 +0100 > X-Maillist: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS > Content-Length: 494 > > I've just come across this "feature" in OP 2.49. > > I have a story totalling 486 pages of text across 14 chapters. > > The problem is that OP insists that there are 512 pages, and any > attempt to delete the excess blank pages results in them instantly > being re-inserted! > > Any ideas? > > -- > Ian Worrall mailto: ian@keinyuri.u-net.com > > I have a series of 1 page letters that OP insists are 2 pagers long. dito above deleating. John Percy Kerslake B.Sc, F.B.I.S., kerslake@SEES.bangor.ac.uk Webb= http://www.sees.bangor.ac.uk/~kerslake/bio.htm Pager=01426-235878 Dysliexia rules k o My spell checker dosen't work with my mail package I am writing this at work on a sun sparc station From kevin@wcartsco.demon.co.uk Tue May 19 13:53:30 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66427 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 19 May 98 13:53:29 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895578912:12:22810:5; Tue, 19 May 98 11:55:12 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab1222749; 19 May 98 11:55 GMT Received: from wcartsco.demon.co.uk ([158.152.233.63]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1008152; 19 May 98 11:54 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wcartsco.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:49:11 GMT Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:49:02 +0100 From: Kevin Simpson To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: OP and Typography Message-ID: <5bd2a94848%kevin@wcartsco.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <19980519.031340.11@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: The Western Commercial Arts Co. X-Mailer: Messenger v1.02 for RISC OS X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59d In message <19980519.031340.11@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > On Sat 16 May, "Bernard G. Hill" wrote: .... about tab leadering I think several people have mistaken leadERing (pron. "leed-er-ing") for leading (pron. ledding). I must say some replys to this post have been a little puerile. In fact, I agree with Mr Hill's complaints about leadering, but there is a simple workaround. Simply define two identical styles, one called "leadering" and the other called "no leadering", with the scope set to "selection" make them identical in their tab positions but put a leadering string in the "leadering" style. Now lay out your text with the "no ledering" style applied overall. Where you want the leadering to appear select the space between the tabs and apply the "leadering" style. It works beautifully. Mr Hill, if you want me to email an example doc please let me know. Kevin. -- Kevin Simpson BA(Hons) The Western Commercial Arts Co. http://www.wcartsco.demon.co.uk graphic design - typeface design - typography - illustration - printing From r.a.cullingford@exeter.ac.uk Tue May 19 17:19:48 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66450 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 19 May 98 17:19:46 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895592635:10:09895:0; Tue, 19 May 98 15:43:55 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk ([144.173.6.14]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1127993; 19 May 98 15:43 GMT Received: from sc196 [144.173.86.196] by hermes via SMTP (QAA20928); Tue, 19 May 1998 16:43:41 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:43:41 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199805191543.QAA20928@hermes> X-Sender: racullin@pop.ex.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk From:(Robin Cullingford) Subject: Backspace key in OPro Please can someone tell me why the backspace key on my expanded A420/1 does not work when I am using OPro (it functions correctly with all other software I use). It fails to operate both with and without the PC-delete facility selected. Robin Cullingford From s.w.ellacott@brighton.ac.uk Tue May 19 17:19:49 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66451 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 19 May 98 17:19:47 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895593530:12:12135:6; Tue, 19 May 98 15:58:50 GMT Received: from neptune.bton.ac.uk ([194.83.112.11]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1212120; 19 May 98 15:58 GMT Received: from useless.it.bton.ac.uk by neptune with SMTP (MMTA); Tue, 19 May 1998 16:58:34 +0100 Received: from swe.brighton.ac.uk by useless.it.bton.ac.uk (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA07257; Tue, 19 May 1998 16:56:28 +0100 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:00:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Ellacott Subject: Re: OP and Typography To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980516.020653.16@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: X-Organization: University of Brighton X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; CHARSET="US-ASCII" On Sat 16 May, "Bernard G. Hill" wrote: > related to the tab but is set to be the same for all tabs. Just how do you set > up a concert programme with decimal tabbed numbered items followed by a tabbed > description followed by a tabbed leadered third item? Those blessed leadering > strings get in everywhere. Well I do programmes using multiple columns. This also allows different bits to be left or right justified. But of course I really need to be able to synchonise paragraphs in difernt stories, as recently discussed here. -- Steve Ellacott, School of Computing and Mathematical Sciences, University of Brighton, Moulsecoomb, BN2 4GJ, UK Tel: Home (01273) 885845 Office: (01273) 642544 or 642414 Fax: Home (01273) 270183 Office: (01273) 642405 WWW: http://www.it.brighton.ac.uk/staff/swe From martinv@ucs.de Tue May 19 17:19:52 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66452 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 19 May 98 17:19:49 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895593895:10:04589:1; Tue, 19 May 98 16:04:55 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1119666; 19 May 98 16:04 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA10017 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:04:42 +0200 Message-Id: <199805191604.SAA10017@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 19 May 1998 12:18:55 GMT Subject: Re: Various (user interface) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >>I have the greatest respect for programmers and marvel at >>what they can achieve but suggest that they are not always the best people to >> the way their efforts appear to the user. > >If you're talking about present company, I'd point out that the user >interface of OPro was largely designed by non-programmers. Most of these >user interface things which folk hate, were specified by someone who sat >studying DTP programs for five years And it shows. If at all I might say that Ovation Pro's UI is not fancy but straightforward. The more one uses it the less it is "in the way". As it stands there is IMHO very little which can be done about the UI to take the learning curve out of DTP. In Germany we have a tale about the "Heinzelmaennchens" being told to children. These are funny little chaps who do all Your work overnight whithout us even having to tell them what to do. The point about that story is that they are gone and not going to come back... About cutting down OP: Switch off Your applets and run !Junior, more need not be done. For every one customer we scare with features there's ten who got bored by the lack of them. Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Tue May 19 17:20:03 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66457 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 19 May 98 17:20:01 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895593949:10:05836:2; Tue, 19 May 98 16:05:49 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1005645; 19 May 98 16:05 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA10023 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:04:44 +0200 Message-Id: <199805191604.SAA10023@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 19 May 1998 12:43:34 GMT Subject: Re: Various MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >From: ian > >>I have a story totalling 486 pages of text across 14 chapters. >>The problem is that OP insists that there are 512 pages, and any >>attempt to delete the excess blank pages results in them instantly >>being re-inserted! If You do have stories prepared such that the text for one page is followed by a line-feed and a page break then things are pretty obvious. The text flows to the end of the frame, the line-feed creates a new page and the page-feed just another. BTW: OP interprets ACSII &0C as page-feeds when importing text (as it should). If You are going to print the thing 486 is not very flexible: *factorize 486 2 3 3 3 3 3 for 2-up or 4-up the best would be: *factorize 488 2 2 2 61 Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From norman@nthom.demon.co.uk Tue May 19 21:38:40 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66459 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 19 May 98 21:38:36 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895600953:10:12601:0; Tue, 19 May 98 18:02:33 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125131; 19 May 98 18:02 GMT Received: from (nthom.demon.co.uk) [158.152.185.75] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ybqiH-0004Nt-00; Tue, 19 May 1998 19:02:10 +0100 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 18:25:34 +0100 From: Norman Thomas To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: More bullets (friendly) Message-ID: <4848C8A193%Norman@nthom.demon.co.uk> Organization: Home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60f May I join again in the bullets/paragraph numbering discussion. I do not believe that their inclusion should now be free. I do agree that it is important to persuade more people to buy OPro. It seems to me from the discussion so far that there are three main routes. They are *not* mutually exclusive. 1. One is to extend what might be called the deep professional's range of implements. That's fine, and the route, if I have understood him, that David Pilling is proposing to take. 2. The second is to make more provision for people who have to work across two (or more) systems - work and home or home and school. They would like easy transfer between OPro and Microsoft/Mac products, and most of them at a word processor and fairly simple DTP level. 3. A third is to extend the OPro facilities to cover more of what people like me need: word processor and fairly simple DTP for writing articles, reports (I don't mean reports on pupils) and so on. In particular, we need facilities that are in Style or Impression but not in OPro, particularly paragraph numbering and perhaps a simpler approach to repeat frames. I suspect that more potential purchasers are to be found in 2 and 3 than in 1. Since the paragraph numbering and bulleting programming has been taken to the stage described by John Wallace, I would hope (though my programming ignorance may mislead me) that it could be completed without a vast amount of work - not necessarily by DP. It may provide a fair sales return for the effort. Certainly I know of two people who would change to OPro but stick to Style because of the numbering provision. Not many, I realise, but two more than I know who are non-buyers because of 1. Which is not in the slightest an argument against providing for 1. I hope that it is clear that I write as a fan of OPro - and DP in general. I want both to succeed vastly. -- Norman Norman Thomas From ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk Tue May 19 21:38:43 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66460 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 19 May 98 21:38:42 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895609945:10:17042:0; Tue, 19 May 98 20:32:25 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1101270; 19 May 98 20:32 GMT Received: from (gvine.demon.co.uk) [158.152.98.218] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ybt3e-0000Q2-00; Tue, 19 May 1998 21:32:23 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gvine.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:32:38 GMT Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:29:10 +0100 From: Alan Muscat To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Various Message-ID: <9e70d94848%ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <19980519.031429.81@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: Grapevine Digital Arts X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60f In message <19980519.031429.81@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > > From: Alan Muscat > > >> I am on a simple royalty. Logically I should do what sells most copies. > >And does maintaining this list sell copies??? I shouldn't think so. > > I must be naive. I always thought that if a program was well supported you'd > all tell your friends, who would then buy it. Well yes we certainly have been telling them on the newsgroups, but the likes of Acorn Publisher has been listing the down sides of OPro(as it ought), some of which have been missing 'essential' items. So if these were resolved then OPro would get glowing reports in AP, Mike Williams might start producing AP using OPro. He could then tell his readers that Impression is dead...long live OPro! This is important for the health of the platform, and should be worth serveral hundred sales of OPro. >And if not well, it'd get > slagged off. It would get praised for being developed. Of course I'm not saying stop supporting the app. Just that if this list and the web site are taking significant amounts of time from implementing the finishing touches to Opro, then I think that the list and web should be given a rest until the finishing touches are done. But don't get me wrong, I do appreciate this level of support very much. Support of this kind (via maillist) is a very new thing. Most people have not been used to it, so it surely won't be a major loss. To be honest with the number of bugs that OPro has had, we've needed this list. That is less true now. The app is largely very stable. OPro is almost as good as any other layout program on any other platform. All the likes of Xpress is now giving is bells and whistles that, frankly, can be done using other programs. For us, bells and whistles can come later. Alan Muscat Choose Acorn - 24 users can't all be wrong. *************** Grapevine Digital Arts *********************** ************** http://www.gvine.demon.co.uk ********************* From timk@ns.planet.gen.nz Tue May 19 22:51:40 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66476 for ovation-l ; Tue, 19 May 98 22:51:37 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovation-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895613723:12:14242:5; Tue, 19 May 98 21:35:23 GMT Received: from brainy.nzplink.co.nz ([203.98.52.1]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1213978; 19 May 98 21:34 GMT Received: from timk.ns.planet.gen.nz (as5200-10.kiwilink.co.nz [203.98.52.70]) by brainy.kiwilink.co.nz (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:17:38 +1200 (GMT) From: Tim King Subject: Damned PS Again! To: OP Mailing List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: De-Sign, Nth Shore City, New Zealand X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] Everyone knows that if you want to run an AWs file to PS, and it contains a deep colour bitmap, you have to rebuild it in (formerly) Publisher (thanks to the AWRender module). AWs file sans bitmaps in 1 frame, bitmaps separately. This job that's just spewed on me must be the 1st of it's kind I've done since the colour supp arrived last yr, and sure as heck I wasn't going to go back and do it in Publisher (though that's what I ended up doing!). It went out to a Fiery, and this is what I got back written over the print (the AWs frame - 1st in the stack - printed, but not even a garbled version of the bitmap appeared, and no text frames that were higher in the stacking order): ERROR: ioerror OFFENDING COMMAND: colorimage STACK: 3 false -filestream- [1.0 0.0 0.0 -1.0 0.0 175.0 ] 8 175 444 -savelevel- -savelevel- Anyone? (As in, what's going on?) thanks: tim -- d e - S i g . ph +64 9 478.3114 From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed May 20 01:15:24 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66479 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 20 May 98 01:15:23 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895614859:12:19424:0; Tue, 19 May 98 21:54:19 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0503559; 19 May 98 21:54 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ybuKu-0005Zi-00; Tue, 19 May 1998 22:54:16 +0100 Date: Tue, 19 May 98 22:21:19 GMT Message-Id: <66471@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From:(Robin Cullingford) >Please can someone tell me why the backspace key on my expanded A420/1 does >not work when I am using OPro (it functions correctly with all other >software I use). It fails to operate both with and without the PC-delete >facility selected. One question is do any of OPro's ehanced key presses work? If not you may have something like Acorns 'Serial Utils' module loaded, and you should get rid of it, since it does nothing other than mess things up. It can be useful to open the macros sub window for defining a new keyboard macro, and then press some keys, if their names appear correctly you know everything is OK. And if they don't... From: Martin Vethake >If You do have stories prepared such that the text for one page >is followed by a line-feed and a page break then things are pretty >obvious. The text flows to the end of the frame, the line-feed creates >a new page and the page-feed just another. BTW: OP interprets >ACSII &0C as page-feeds when importing text (as it should). All absolutely right, it may not be the line feed as much as the text does not fit the page, either way the form feed (new page code) then produces yet another new page. You can try using 'invisibles' from the View -> Options window. From: Alan Muscat >To be honest with the number of bugs that OPro >has had, we've needed this list. That is less true now. The app is >largely very stable. Hmm. It's also the case that this list highlights the presence of bugs. I'm sure if someone got hold of the complete list of bugs in Windows (on the MS web site?) or any other product and posted them on the 'net it would have an interesting effect. It's actually a good thing that you as a user know about all the bugs. So you can avoid them. But you might be happier or have more confidence in the product if you didn't. Also of course not everything someone has posted up here as a 'bug', has actually turned out to be one. From: Tim King >This job that's just spewed on me must be the 1st of it's kind I've done > ERROR: ioerror > OFFENDING COMMAND: colorimage Guess. The colorimage command can't read all the data it expects to be in the file. What I would like to know is if OPro is any worse than Publisher? The AW renderer has limitations - like deep sprites. But I thought they applied to Publisher as much as to anything else. From: Paul Hutton >How about a "Clear documents" facility on the documents applet; Adding that feature is a pretty simple task. >1. I know this has been mooted before, but has anything come of having >Print Current Page as an option? I have this thing about not knowing what the 'current' page is. The one shown in the info palette?, the one the caret is in (if there's a caret), the one your eyes happens to be resting on? I can see the attractions of such a function though. >2. By the way, I found an old (pre-release) advert for Ovation Pro; how >close are we to the promised widow and orphan control? A squillion miles away. Seriously I think in the light of comments in recent weeks I understand what peoples priorities for new features are. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From paul@tyto.demon.co.uk Wed May 20 01:15:27 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66481 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 20 May 98 01:15:26 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895617135:05:13706:4; Tue, 19 May 98 22:32:15 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1200050; 19 May 98 22:32 GMT Received: from tyto.demon.co.uk ([194.222.110.18]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2022236; 19 May 98 22:31 GMT Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:30:42 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Hutton Subject: Document applet suggestion To: Ovation Pro Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] How about a "Clear documents" facility on the documents applet; I use it all the time, and it is invaluable, but sometimes I want to start from scratch. Would this be difficult to do, short of burrowing into the applet and deleting/clearing the documents file? -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "Peu s'en fallut que je ne mourusse d'ennui dans mon village" A beautiful French sentence... From paul@tyto.demon.co.uk Wed May 20 01:15:29 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66482 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 20 May 98 01:15:28 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895617140:05:13713:6; Tue, 19 May 98 22:32:20 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1200057; 19 May 98 22:32 GMT Received: from tyto.demon.co.uk ([194.222.110.18]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2022241; 19 May 98 22:31 GMT Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:26:17 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Hutton Subject: Print Current Page? To: Ovation Pro Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Dear David et al 1. I know this has been mooted before, but has anything come of having Print Current Page as an option? 2.49 Range option is a step in the right direction; even a drag down box with All/Current and other choices would be a nice touch. 2. By the way, I found an old (pre-release) advert for Ovation Pro; how close are we to the promised widow and orphan control? To end on a plus, we have upgraded to Ovation Pro at school and the classes really like it! I have some queries about configuring the Junior script, but I will come to that later! -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "Peu s'en fallut que je ne mourusse d'ennui dans mon village" A beautiful French sentence... From don.lewis@bristol.ac.uk Wed May 20 13:44:48 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66541 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 20 May 98 13:44:47 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895665031:20:25850:6; Wed, 20 May 98 11:50:31 GMT Received: from dirc.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.51]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2025828; 20 May 98 11:50 GMT Received: from sis.bris.ac.uk by dirc.bris.ac.uk with SMTP-PRIV (PP) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:50:21 +0100 Received: from dml1.pys.bristol.ac.uk (dml1.pys.bris.ac.uk [137.222.53.82]) by sis.bris.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA09809 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:48:45 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:48:41 +0100 (BST) From: "Dr. D. M. Lewis" Subject: Re: OP and Typography To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980520.020929.00@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] On Wed 20 May, Kevin Simpson wrote: > > On Sat 16 May, "Bernard G. Hill" wrote: > ... about tab leadering > I think several people have mistaken leadERing > > In fact, I agree with Mr Hill's complaints about leadering, but there is a > simple workaround. Simply define two identical styles, one called > .... > Mr Hill, if you want me to email an example doc please let me know. > Kevin. I would also like to see an example - this area always seems obscure in the abstract. Would it be possible to e-mail me? (Or even a general posting?) Don Dr. D. M. Lewis mailto:don.lewis@bris.ac.uk From davidb@argonet.co.uk Wed May 20 21:15:58 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66577 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 20 May 98 21:15:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895689123:10:17930:0; Wed, 20 May 98 18:32:03 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1104366; 20 May 98 18:31 GMT Received: from (193.130.251.84) [193.130.251.84] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ycDea-0000BI-00; Wed, 20 May 1998 19:31:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Mr Breakwell) Reply-To: davidb@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 20 May 98 19:31:22 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: New Indexing Applet Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: I have been writing an Indexing applet. This has been tested and has now been released onto the 3rd party applet site from today (Wednesday). WWW address http://www1.che.hw.ac.uk/~ovpro/ I would like to make it clear that the applet is released as CareWare - i.e if a user finds the software useful then they should think about making a donation to my Scout Group (see the documentation). My Scouts would appreciate this very much! I will be releasing an additional script to convert !Index indexes to !Idx format in the future. But in the meantime !Idx (my applet) has the following features: * Flexible text - index entries not dependant upon document text * User Styles for index text entries and also each page number * Entries and sub-entries managed automatically * No duplicate index entries due to markers ending up on the same page * Allows for 'See XXXXXXX' rather than page numbers in index * Page numbers and Chapter numbers can be included * Search and auto-mark functionality available * All files contain version numbers for easy upgrades * Entries do not depend upon styles but use bookmarks * All index information held in Tagged Data fields and saved with the document. (This means that it only works in release 2.48 and above) * user configurable options for format of index. * Totally OP Applet code for optimum OP integration (>1700 lines) Amongst others..... All problems/suggestions and enquiries should be directed to me : davidb@argonet.co.uk. David Breakwell -- --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------. |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines| | | |\ | | | | |\| | | '---------------------------------------------' | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | davidb@argonet.co.uk From timk@ns.planet.gen.nz Wed May 20 21:16:28 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66580 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 20 May 98 21:16:27 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895694473:20:05597:0; Wed, 20 May 98 20:01:13 GMT Received: from brainy.nzplink.co.nz ([203.98.52.1]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2005489; 20 May 98 20:01 GMT Received: from timk.ns.planet.gen.nz (as5200-05.kiwilink.co.nz [203.98.52.65]) by brainy.kiwilink.co.nz (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:19:56 +1200 (GMT) From: Tim King Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980520.021026.81@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: De-Sign, Nth Shore City, New Zealand X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] On Wed 20 May, David Pilling wrote: > From: Tim King > > >This job that's just spewed on me must be the 1st of it's kind I've done > > ERROR: ioerror > > OFFENDING COMMAND: colorimage > > Guess. The colorimage command can't read all the data it expects to > be in the file. > > What I would like to know is if OPro is any worse than Publisher? [sotto voce] yes, actually. As in - Publisher, with the file set up exactly the same as it was in OP, did the job without batting an eyelid. 3 frames: 1 with the AW file, 1 with the sprite (JPEG in fact, though I understand ChangeFSI converts it to a sprite?), and 1 with a bit of text in it. > The AW renderer has limitations - like deep sprites. But I thought they > applied to Publisher as much as to anything else. But only when the sprite is in the AWs file, surely. Have you ever noticed how mentioning the AWRender module is a really good way of making someone apoplectic? ;-) I find it hard to believe that I *haven't* at some stage sent OP files like this to the Fiery. Certainly I've never had a problem before. Maybe it was just PS sending out a rogue file as it's wont to do from time to time - this time though, I didn't feel like spending a whole lot of money testing the system. tim -- d e - S i g . ph +64 9 478.3114 From paul@tyto.demon.co.uk Wed May 20 22:33:09 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66591 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 20 May 98 22:33:06 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895699742:10:15061:0; Wed, 20 May 98 21:29:02 GMT Received: from post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.40]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1014950; 20 May 98 21:28 GMT Received: from (tyto.demon.co.uk) [194.222.110.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ycGPv-0007C5-00; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:28:55 +0000 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:27:10 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Hutton Subject: PR15 message (encore une fois..) To: Ovation Pro Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Dear all Here's a puzzle. I have made a fresh copy of 2.46, upgraded to 2.49. Because of the annoying PR15 message, and no global clipboard, I quit from OvPro which is loaded on bootup. I shift/dc and double-click on !OvnResdir and !Words and re-load Ov Pro- presto! Full 2.49 version with no PR15 message and global clipboard is present in Choices. So..... I even resort to writing two RUN lines in my Boot.Choices.Boot.Tasks.!boot file, one for !OvnResdir and one for !Words, then include the run line for OvPro. Switch off, switch on... back to square one. PR15. Yes, Force and Newer are on. Yes, I dragged UK templates and messages into the directory and overwrote them. Any ideas? -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "Peu s'en fallut que je ne mourusse d'ennui dans mon village" A beautiful French sentence... From stephen.brown@argonet.co.uk Wed May 20 22:34:13 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66592 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 20 May 98 22:34:12 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895699980:12:21501:4; Wed, 20 May 98 21:33:00 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2106155; 20 May 98 21:32 GMT Received: from (193.130.246.145) [193.130.246.145] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ycGTf-0003hT-00; Wed, 20 May 1998 22:32:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stephen Brown To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:00:23 +0100 Message-ID: <4849343039stephen.brown@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Discarding Styles Return-Receipt-To: stephen.brown@argonet.co.uk X-Confirm-Reading-To: stephen.brown@argonet.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain As sometimes happens after copying a selected region of text to another point in the same document, you get duplication of a style, typically Bodytext. Well I have come across a strange bug in OP 2.49 whilst trying to remove such a duplicated style, eg Bodytext01. When I tried to discard Bodytext01 from my document, which is 5 chapters long, the entire first chapter just dissappeared, leaving me with the same number of blank pages as I had text before. Undo would not bring the text back. Clicking anywhere on these blank pages positioned the caret as though the pages where still full of text. Simply scrolling the document would not force OP to redraw the pages correctly but as soon as I drag selected an invisible region on one of the blank pages, all the chapter magically reappeared. Very strange. Incidentally, this bug is repeatable and I did check for the occurence of the style Bodytext01 within the first chapter but found no occurences. Has anybody else seen this before. Steve. -- ______ _ / \ | | http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/stephen.brown \ ___/ | |_ ___ __ __ ___ \__ \ | _| / _ \ \ \/ / / _ \ SA RISC PC, 18Mb. / \ | |___ | __/ \ / | __/ \______/ |_____| \___| \/ \___| From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed May 20 22:34:16 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66593 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 20 May 98 22:34:15 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895700027:20:25075:4; Wed, 20 May 98 21:33:47 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2106917; 20 May 98 21:33 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ycGUY-0003u1-00; Wed, 20 May 1998 22:33:43 +0100 Date: Wed, 20 May 98 21:27:14 GMT Message-Id: <66583@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 >> What I would like to know is if OPro is any worse than Publisher? >[sotto voce] yes, actually. As in - Publisher, with the file set up exactly >the same as it was in OP, did the job without batting an eyelid. 3 frames: 1 >with the AW file, 1 with the sprite (JPEG in fact, though I understand >ChangeFSI converts it to a sprite?), and 1 with a bit of text in it. So really AW has nothing to do with it? If it is 'colorimage' it will be the sprite being printed which is causing the problem - and if you did what you say you did, the sprite is not connected with AW. JPEG's can render as JPEG's to PS. Depends if you've told OPro to load them or convert them. And if you've got level 2 output. >this to the Fiery. Certainly I've never had a problem before. Maybe it was >just PS sending out a rogue file as it's wont to do from time to time - this >time though, I didn't feel like spending a whole lot of money testing the >system. I would be inclined to look at the file - the original PS file, if you still have it. See how many 'colorimage''s there are, and where they are. Also presumeably you can try the PS on GhostScript 4? From: Paul Hutton >Because of the annoying PR15 message, and no global clipboard, I quit from >OvPro which is loaded on bootup. I shift/dc and double-click on !OvnResdir >and !Words and re-load Ov Pro- presto! Full 2.49 version with no PR15 >message and global clipboard is present in Choices. Presumeably you either have a copy of 2.46 which when run will reset the path variables to point back to its own !OvnResDir, or there's something in your boot sequence which is setting up or changing the paths. One fix is just to delete all copies except for 2.49. I know everyone likes playing this game with !OvnResDir, but I'm sorry to report it won't exist in the soon to be released 2.50. In fact... you can change your copy right now to get rid of it. In !OvnPro.!Run |If ""="" Then Set OvationPro$ResourceDir .!OvnResDir Run ".Modules.IfExists" .!OvnResDir Then Set OvationPro$ResourceDir .!OvnResDir Where you add the | to the start of the existing line to comment it out, and then insert the second fragment of code - all as one line - it's split above so it won't get chewed up enroute. From: Stephen Brown >When I tried to discard Bodytext01 from my document, which is 5 chapters >long, the entire first chapter just dissappeared, leaving me with the same >number of blank pages as I had text before. Undo would not bring the text My feeling is that you'll find this bug is gone in 2.50. I can't say for sure wihtout seeing your example, but I did see and resolve something similar. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From dominik.wagner@t-online.de Thu May 21 13:31:11 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66635 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 21 May 98 13:31:10 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895744354:10:01310:0; Thu, 21 May 98 09:52:34 GMT Received: from mailout01.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.149]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1000913; 21 May 98 9:52 GMT Received: from fwd01.btx.dtag.de (fwd01.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.161]) by mailout01.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 0ycS09-0003zr-00; Thu, 21 May 1998 11:51:05 +0200 Received: from 000488668221080712250#0002.t-online.de (080712250-0002(btxid)@[193.158.171.225]) by fwd01.btx.dtag.de with smtp id ; Thu, 21 May 1998 11:50:56 +0200 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:22:35 +0200 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Script-Funktion to move Tabs Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980520.021041.59@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60j X-Sender: 080712250-0002@t-online.de From:(Dominik Wagner) Hi Everyone! i'm using Ovation at work and I'm therefore listening to this list. I noted the need of an Bullet-List applet. Then I had the Idea of a quick "hack" for doing this. My idea is to write an applet wich does the following to the selected paragraphs: it moves the first indent and indent tab to a special amount to the right and introduces a new lefttab at the position of the indent tab. it adds either a number or a bulletin point and a tab at start of every line of the block. Voil=E1, now we have a bulletin list! I think it's easy to do, and i've done all the enviroment already. The th= ing that's missing is the change of the tabs. Therefore my question: Is there a funktion wich moves a tab or gets and sets the position of a tab? If somebody tells my how to do this, the applet ist going to be available to download from my homepage the next day on! BTW: Has somebody done a Strong-Help manual or anything like it for all o= f the script-routines? This would be very helpful, or at least a compl= ete computerized version (maybe in Ovation itself) for download at the Ovation site. Finding something in the manual is very slow if you compare it to the find option of Ovation :) BTW - If I had it comput= erized, I and my partner at work could read it at home simultaneaously, and = not as being now the case, that he's away for a week or so and has the m= anual lying at home :( Bye, Dominik --=20 -- mailto:Dominik.Wagner@t-online.de ------------------- Acorn Nutzer, DTV-T=E4nzer, C-Programmierer, Gymnasiast, Brettspiele, Sportwart TC Inn-Casino (http://www.tanzen.wasserburg.de) e.V. Homepage unter: http://www.arcsite.de/hp/dragon/ - Always look on the Arcsite of your life - http://www.arcsite.de/ From s.w.ellacott@brighton.ac.uk Thu May 21 13:31:16 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66637 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 21 May 98 13:31:15 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895748061:10:05728:0; Thu, 21 May 98 10:54:21 GMT Received: from neptune.bton.ac.uk ([194.83.112.11]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1120370; 21 May 98 10:54 GMT Received: from useless.it.bton.ac.uk by neptune with SMTP (MMTA); Thu, 21 May 1998 11:43:48 +0100 Received: from swe.brighton.ac.uk by useless.it.bton.ac.uk (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA08728; Thu, 21 May 1998 11:41:31 +0100 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:50:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Ellacott Subject: Re: Damned PS Again! To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980520.021019.55@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: X-Organization: University of Brighton X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; CHARSET="US-ASCII" On Wed 20 May, Tim King wrote: > Everyone knows that if you want to run an AWs file to PS, and it contains a > deep colour bitmap, you have to rebuild it in (formerly) Publisher (thanks > to the AWRender module). AWs file sans bitmaps in 1 frame, bitmaps > separately. > > This job that's just spewed on me must be the 1st of it's kind I've done > since the colour supp arrived last yr, and sure as heck I wasn't going to go > back and do it in Publisher (though that's what I ended up doing!). It went > out to a Fiery, and this is what I got back written over the print (the AWs > frame - 1st in the stack - printed, but not even a garbled version of the > bitmap appeared, and no text frames that were higher in the stacking order): > Isn't it simpler just to convert to Draw first? (You still need to remove the deepsprites and put them back afterwards, IIRC.) Even if the AW renderer bug were fixed, it still can't cope with all these new bells and whitsles appearing from our German colleague. -- Steve Ellacott, School of Computing and Mathematical Sciences, University of Brighton, Moulsecoomb, BN2 4GJ, UK Tel: Home (01273) 885845 Office: (01273) 642544 or 642414 Fax: Home (01273) 270183 Office: (01273) 642405 WWW: http://www.it.brighton.ac.uk/staff/swe From bernard.veasey@argonet.co.uk Thu May 21 13:31:21 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66638 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 21 May 98 13:31:20 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895729491:05:13158:0; Thu, 21 May 98 05:44:51 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2116271; 21 May 98 5:44 GMT Received: from (193.130.245.31) [193.130.245.31] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ycO9p-00008l-00; Thu, 21 May 1998 06:44:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Bernard Veasey) To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 20 May 98 (07:49:52 +0100) X-Organization: Argonet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: ArgoNet 'Voyager' Email Program 1.08 : ad Subject: Re: Un-deletable pages Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Re: > I have a series of 1 page letters that OP insists are 2 pages If you go to the page you want to be the last page, you will probably find a page with a frame that needs: menu > Object > Text flow > Runaround None done to it. You will then hopefully find that your last unwanted blank page will disappear. -- _ _ | |_ ___ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| | | '_\/ -_) '_| ' \ /_` | '_|/_' | |_._/\___|_| |_||_|\_,_|_| \_._| using a StrongARM powered Acorn Risc PC Email: bernard.veasey@argonet.co.uk Web: http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/bernard.veasey - Acorn Software etc From i.a.goulbourne@ncl.ac.uk Thu May 21 14:58:03 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66659 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 21 May 98 14:58:02 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895758719:12:06502:9; Thu, 21 May 98 13:51:59 GMT Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.233.51]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2028957; 21 May 98 13:51 GMT Received: from Ghoill.ncl.ac.uk by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id (8.7.6/ for ncl.ac.uk) with ESMTP; Thu, 21 May 1998 14:51:45 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35643042.598AB4A3@ncl.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:46:43 +0100 From: Ian Goulbourne Reply-To: Department@ncl.ac.uk, of@ncl.ac.uk, Surgery@ncl.ac.uk Organization: North Tyneside Hospital X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: OP 2.50 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19980521.014805.84@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hesitate to ask, because this would take away your precious time in coding the new version of OP. Can you wet our appetites with details of enhancements? BTW I am strongly in favour of this mailing list continuing as the support to the program this affords is one of the strongest points about OP - I moved from IP as it was (and had been for a long time) no longer being supported Ian From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu May 21 17:39:07 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66676 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 21 May 98 17:39:06 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895765762:10:15795:2; Thu, 21 May 98 15:49:22 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1015920; 21 May 98 15:49 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ycXao-00016B-00; Thu, 21 May 1998 16:49:18 +0100 Date: Thu, 21 May 98 14:59:50 GMT Message-Id: <66660@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From:(Dominik Wagner) >Is there a funktion wich moves a tab or gets and sets the position of a >tab? No. Is setting up tabs vital? I'd think that something which did all the work of numbering etc. was the key bit. >Has somebody done a Strong-Help manual or anything like it for all of >the script-routines? It would be a good idea for us to combine the printed manual and the new functions documents. I'm not so sure if the powers that be would agree though. Obviously making the whole manual available as a document would be nice - but tempting widespread piracy. From: Ian Goulbourne >Can you wet our appetites with details of enhancements? Once I get the scanners, a new user interface to TWAIN, and some work on ArcFax out of the way... then I intend to add the long promised large image support. That means proxy images, EPS, OPI, DCS. It's the so called professional printing stuff. After that it seems to me that people would like bulleting/section numbering to be made to work. 2.50 which should be available in a week or so, is mostly bug fixes although I have added a feature to sort out the problems with chapters and blank pages. From: Paul Hutton >We have a site licence of OPro version 2.46n. >If I use the 2.49 upgrade off the OPro site, will it affect us in any way? This has been discussed here in recent weeks. AFAIK it won't cause problems. >we have recently installed OPro 2.46 onto our A4000s at school. >Sometimes though, when OPro is loaded, when the classes try to type, there >is no response; the caret flashes in the top left hand corner, but nothing >can be typed, regardless of fonts. >The !Fonts folder is in the root directory. The only solution we have >found is to switch off and restart. Any ideas or pointers? If there are font menus with fonts on, then losing the fonts is not a problem. I would check that some other application can use the same fonts. I'd look if memory was running out. Can you load documents and see their contents... >Can anyone help me? I want to create a macro and button for the toolbar >that will change a selected block of text into upper case. Roughly, set a pair of bookmarks to the selected area, scan through it and whenever you find a lower case letter use the swop case function. >Does anyone knpw of a way of changing the word Discard (as in closing >Discard/save/Cancel) to "Bin"? I think this is a general Acorn thing, not >solely OPro. Usually, edit the programs template file or its messages. No doubt you could tweek a lot of programs at once by editing the RISC OS resources file for the appropriate toolbox module. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From paul@tyto.demon.co.uk Thu May 21 18:40:59 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66681 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 21 May 98 18:40:58 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895769543:10:15669:1; Thu, 21 May 98 16:52:23 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1015279; 21 May 98 16:52 GMT Received: from (tyto.demon.co.uk) [194.222.110.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ycYZW-00066L-00; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:52:02 +0100 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:50:37 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Hutton Subject: Upgrading site licence versions? To: Ovation Pro Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Dear David We have a site licence of OPro version 2.46n. If I use the 2.49 upgrade off the OPro site, will it affect us in any way? -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "Peu s'en fallut que je ne mourusse d'ennui dans mon village" A beautiful French sentence... From neill@narrator.demon.co.uk Thu May 21 18:41:01 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66682 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 21 May 98 18:41:00 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895770151:10:00774:0; Thu, 21 May 98 17:02:31 GMT Received: from post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.40]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1123448; 21 May 98 17:02 GMT Received: from (narrator.demon.co.uk) [158.152.60.112] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ycYjc-0005rp-00; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:02:29 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by narrator.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Wed, 20 May 1998 17:29:11 GMT Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:28:47 +0100 From: Neill McNeill To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Un-deletable pages Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980520.020922.21@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: Home/Sensible Software X-Mailer: Messenger v1.31 for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60j In message <19980520.020922.21@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > From root@pilling.demon.co.uk Tue May 19 03:21:22 1998 > > From:(ian) > > Sender: root@pilling.demon.co.uk > > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 03:13:32 +0100 > > Organization: > > Subject: Un-deletable pages > > To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L > > Reply-To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk > > X-Posting-Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:36:11 +0100 > > X-Maillist: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS > > Content-Length: 494 > > > > I've just come across this "feature" in OP 2.49. > > > > I have a story totalling 486 pages of text across 14 chapters. > > > > The problem is that OP insists that there are 512 pages, and any > > attempt to delete the excess blank pages results in them instantly > > being re-inserted! > > > > Any ideas? > > > > -- > > Ian Worrall mailto: ian@keinyuri.u-net.com > > > > > I have a series of 1 page letters that OP insists are 2 pagers long. > dito above deleating. > This has happened to men too. At first I tried deleting empty space using [so that the caret went to the previous page]. This automatically deleted the empty page. Where this didn't work, I found that, for some reason, the caret was unable to revert to the previous page because of a frame covering the default frame on the preceding page. By moving the frame, temporarily, the caret was able to revert to the preceding page and the empty page was deleted. -- | Neill McNeill | Streatham Common| Acorn Risc PC OS 3.6 | neill@narrator.demon.co.uk| LONDON SW16 | 16Mb From paul@tyto.demon.co.uk Thu May 21 18:41:06 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66683 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 21 May 98 18:41:05 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895769529:05:00303:3; Thu, 21 May 98 16:52:09 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2118744; 21 May 98 16:52 GMT Received: from (tyto.demon.co.uk) [194.222.110.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ycYZU-00066L-00; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:52:00 +0100 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:47:21 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Hutton Subject: Missing Typing? To: Ovation Pro Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Dear all we have recently installed OPro 2.46 onto our A4000s at school. Sometimes though, when OPro is loaded, when the classes try to type, there is no response; the caret flashes in the top left hand corner, but nothing can be typed, regardless of fonts. The !Fonts folder is in the root directory. The only solution we have found is to switch off and restart. Any ideas or pointers? -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "Peu s'en fallut que je ne mourusse d'ennui dans mon village" A beautiful French sentence... From paul@tyto.demon.co.uk Thu May 21 18:41:08 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66684 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 21 May 98 18:41:07 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895769533:20:09089:0; Thu, 21 May 98 16:52:13 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2118802; 21 May 98 16:52 GMT Received: from (tyto.demon.co.uk) [194.222.110.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ycYZY-00066L-00; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:52:04 +0100 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:23:30 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Hutton Subject: All caps Macro? To: Ovation Pro Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Dear all Can anyone help me? I want to create a macro and button for the toolbar that will change a selected block of text into upper case. How do I do it? I know how to create an icon, but I don't know what the script for the macro would be. I am not a programmer, I hasten to add.. MTIA -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "Peu s'en fallut que je ne mourusse d'ennui dans mon village" A beautiful French sentence... From paul@tyto.demon.co.uk Thu May 21 18:41:10 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66685 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 21 May 98 18:41:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895769534:12:15580:3; Thu, 21 May 98 16:52:14 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2008964; 21 May 98 16:52 GMT Received: from (tyto.demon.co.uk) [194.222.110.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ycYZV-00066L-00; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:52:01 +0100 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:48:49 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Hutton Subject: Changing discard? To: Ovation Pro Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Does anyone knpw of a way of changing the word Discard (as in closing Discard/save/Cancel) to "Bin"? I think this is a general Acorn thing, not solely OPro. -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "Peu s'en fallut que je ne mourusse d'ennui dans mon village" A beautiful French sentence... From nospam@biggun.keinyuri.u-net.com Fri May 22 14:01:11 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66743 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 14:01:06 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895814419:12:21906:0; Fri, 22 May 98 05:20:19 GMT Received: from [195.102.240.252] ([195.102.240.252]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2106379; 22 May 98 5:19 GMT Received: from keinyuri.u-net.com [195.102.197.37] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yckEG-0006Ol-00; Fri, 22 May 1998 05:18:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ian Worrall To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:06:50 +0100 Message-ID: <484a1081acnospam@keinyuri.u-net.com> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: All caps Macro? In-Reply-To: <19980522.011247.29@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 22 May, Paul Hutton wrote: > Dear all > Can anyone help me? I want to create a macro and button for the toolbar > that will change a selected block of text into upper case. > How do I do it? I know how to create an icon, but I don't know what the > script for the macro would be. > I am not a programmer, I hasten to add.. > MTIA I'd just create a style in the edit style box. All you have to do is select Case=All Caps on the modify test menu -- Ian Worrall mailto: ian@keinyuri.u-net.com From ian_barr@drabed.demon.co.uk Fri May 22 14:01:13 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66744 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 14:01:06 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895819004:10:27882:1; Fri, 22 May 98 06:36:44 GMT Received: from drabed.demon.co.uk ([158.152.38.89]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1103737; 22 May 98 6:36 GMT Date: 21 May 98 11:00 EST From: To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Master pages Message-ID: <895819001.113737.0@drabed.demon.co.uk> Text item: Text_1 Is the following a bug or is it meant to happen, I appologise if it has been mentioned before but I cant recall seeing it. I am using OP 2.49 If you create a master page and include both header and footer and type a line of text into the header and footer. If you now vertically justify the header say to be central the footer and main frame also vertically centralise. The main frame only being apparent when you close the master page. From my understanding of the manual it says that headers and footers are treated as individual frames so shouldn't I be able to vertically justify the header without it affecting the footer and main frame? Ian Ian_Barr@drabed.demon.co.uk (work) ib63@student.open.ac.uk (home) StrongArm RPC 26Mb From clive.holland@btinternet.com Fri May 22 14:01:31 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66747 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 14:01:24 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895819316:12:25812:6; Fri, 22 May 98 06:41:56 GMT Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2108194; 22 May 98 6:41 GMT Received: from clive.holland.btinternet.com [195.99.53.27] by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0yclWB-00021I-00; Fri, 22 May 1998 07:41:28 +0100 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:59:59 +0100 (BST) From: Clive Holland Subject: Re: Print Current Page To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980520.021026.81@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Hello David, On Wed 20 May, David Pilling wrote: > >1. I know this has been mooted before, but has anything come of having > >Print Current Page as an option? > > I have this thing about not knowing what the 'current' page is. The one > shown in the info palette?, the one the caret is in (if there's a caret), > the one your eyes happens to be resting on? I can see the attractions of > such a function though. > I cannot see that there can be any other definition of current page other than where the focus is. This is set by where you click the mouse and hence where the caret is. (How does a standard computer know where your eyes are looking? I hope that there was a hidden grin.) This is how MS Word works and and those people who use it understand the rules set. Once the definition is made clear to the user, then the way ahead to print the current page must be pretty fast. Thanks -- Clive clive.holland@btinternet.com From ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk Fri May 22 14:01:31 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66748 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 14:01:25 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895830227:10:21929:3; Fri, 22 May 98 09:43:47 GMT Received: from llyr.cee.hw.ac.uk ([137.195.52.200]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1123492; 22 May 98 9:43 GMT Received: from tungat.cee.hw.ac.uk by llyr.cee.hw.ac.uk{with smtp } (ident root using rfc1413) (Smail3.2.0.101 #8) id m0ycoMS-00075xC; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:43:36 +0100 (BST) Received: by tungat.cee.hw.ac.uk (Smail3.1.28.1 #116) id m0ycoMa-000BkBC; Fri, 22 May 98 10:43 WET DST Message-Id: From:(Matthew Hambley) Subject: Re: Changing discard? To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:43:43 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <19980522.011252.46@pilling.demon.co.uk> from "Paul Hutton" at May 22, 98 01:12:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 492 > Does anyone knpw of a way of changing the word Discard (as in closing > Discard/save/Cancel) to "Bin"? I think this is a general Acorn thing, not > solely OPro. Have you tried editing the Messages file? -- (\/)atthew Hambley ---------------------\We all program a yellow computer, term : ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk \ a yellow computer, holiday : mhambley@arcade.demon.co.uk \ a yellow computer. web : http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceemah/ \---------------------------------- From timk@ns.planet.gen.nz Fri May 22 14:01:39 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66749 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 14:01:33 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895835586:10:06365:0; Fri, 22 May 98 11:13:06 GMT Received: from brainy.nzplink.co.nz ([203.98.52.1]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1006081; 22 May 98 11:13 GMT Received: from timk.ns.planet.gen.nz (as5200-25.kiwilink.co.nz [203.98.52.85]) by brainy.kiwilink.co.nz (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 23:10:12 +1200 (GMT) From: Tim King Subject: Re: Damned PS Again! To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980522.011209.69@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: De-Sign, Nth Shore City, New Zealand X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] On Fri 22 May, Steve Ellacott wrote: > Isn't it simpler just to convert to Draw first? (You still need to remove > the deepsprites and put them back afterwards, IIRC.) Even if the AW > renderer bug were fixed, it still can't cope with all these new bells and > whitsles appearing from our German colleague. Though it's handling the AWs side just fine (surprise!) It's the bitmap that's the problem. You're right though with Martin's stuff. Increasingly it has to come out and back in as Draw objects. A while back he confided that in fact he may one day have to rewrite the AWRender module anyway, when he produces an object type that it won't handle. Guess he's just putting off the fateful day, and hoping someone else beats him to it ;-) tim -- d e - S i g . ph +64 9 478.3114 From timk@ns.planet.gen.nz Fri May 22 14:01:52 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66755 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 14:01:50 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895833461:20:19982:1; Fri, 22 May 98 10:37:41 GMT Received: from brainy.nzplink.co.nz ([203.98.52.1]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2123818; 22 May 98 10:37 GMT Received: from timk.ns.planet.gen.nz (as5200-25.kiwilink.co.nz [203.98.52.85]) by brainy.kiwilink.co.nz (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:37:47 +1200 (GMT) From: Tim King Subject: Re: PS & Fiery To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980521.014805.84@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: De-Sign, Nth Shore City, New Zealand X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] On Thu 21 May, David Pilling wrote: > JPEG's can render as JPEG's to PS. Depends if you've told OPro > to load them or convert them. And if you've got level 2 output. It remained a JPEG. Incidently, where do I tell OP to convert them? & is there a problem if I do (ie does the bitmap format remain in the PS)? Level 2? What difference would that make? I used the level 1 driver (!Printers 1.54), but have just run it out with the level 2. There's 10 bytes difference in the file size. The Publisher version of the file produces a ps file 72,808 bytes smaller, by the way (not that that means much). > > > > this to the Fiery. Certainly I've never had a problem before. Maybe it > > was just PS sending out a rogue file as it's wont to do from time to time > > I would be inclined to look at the file - the original PS file, if you > still have it. I'd dumped it, but ran up another and put it through the printer with the same result. > See how many 'colorimage''s there are, and where they are. 2 mentions early in the file (lines 61 & 64): ... exch def 8 SMat D32 false 3 colorimage}BD/JM{1. 0. 0. -1. 0. 6 -1 roll cvrSMat astore pop}BD/JPFilt{currentfile/ASCII85Decode filter 1 dict/DCTDecodefilter}BD/J8{8 SMat JPFilt image}BD/J32{8 SMat JPFilt false 3 colorimage}BD/TS{1. exch div exch 1. exch div exch scale}BD/Fn{0.016 div exch 0.016 div exch dup/fheight ED 0. 0. 3 -1 roll 0. 0. WM1 astore ... etc Exactly the same in the level 2 output. Also exactly the same in the files produced from Publisher (lines 91 & 94) - except it gets mentioned 2 more times a little further on (still fairly close to the beginning of the file - in lines 170 & 175): /SRGB24 { 2 copy mul 3 mul /Rem exch def 8 SMat /Dataline load false 3 colorimage } def /SCMYK32 { 2 copy mul 4 mul /Rem exch def 8 SMat /Dataline load false 4 colorimage } def > Also presumeably you can try the PS on GhostScript 4? Presumably ;-) I've got the current download (4.03). Drop any file on, it chugs away for 5 secs or so, and then I always get: Error:/invalidfont in findfont.Operand stack: Helvetica 50692 -nostringval- Helvetica Times-Roman. Execution stack:. %interp_exit () -nostringval- -nostringval- -nostringval- false -nostringval- I find this really helpful. I click on quit, run the job out through Publisher, and then harague you. What could be simpler! Re GS (because it should be really useful); where do you put the fonts? I shoved them in a dir - Fonts - in the !GS directory, though since there are more than 77 files there's also a Fonts2. Am I the only one able to screw up bitmaps for a Fiery, or are there others just as good? tim -- d e - S i g . ph +64 9 478.3114 From dave@avtec.demon.co.uk Fri May 22 16:37:26 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66775 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 16:37:25 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895848470:12:20897:12; Fri, 22 May 98 14:47:50 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac2114378; 22 May 98 14:47 GMT Received: from avtec.demon.co.uk ([158.152.210.141]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1018608; 22 May 98 14:47 GMT Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:35:25 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Richardson Subject: Re: Missing Typing? To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980522.011242.17@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.09] On Fri 22 May, Paul Hutton wrote: > Dear all > > we have recently installed OPro 2.46 onto our A4000s at school. > Sometimes though, when OPro is loaded, when the classes try to type, there > is no response; the caret flashes in the top left hand corner, but nothing > can be typed, regardless of fonts. > > The !Fonts folder is in the root directory. The only solution we have > found is to switch off and restart. Any ideas or pointers? > > > -- > Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm > "Peu s'en fallut que je ne mourusse d'ennui dans mon village" > A beautiful French sentence... > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@pilling.demon.co.uk > with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l > To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l > > Dear Paul, Do you have enough memory? Most machines seem to need 4Mb to work correctly. Regards Dave Richardson From martinv@ucs.de Fri May 22 19:24:09 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66786 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 19:24:04 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895853221:10:10197:0; Fri, 22 May 98 16:07:01 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1111114; 22 May 98 16:06 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA06846 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:06:54 +0200 Message-Id: <199805221606.SAA06846@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 22 May 1998 08:39:56 GMT Subject: Re: More bullets (friendly) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >2. The second is to make more provision for people who have to work across >two (or more) systems - work and home or home and school. They would like >easy transfer between OPro and Microsoft/Mac products, and most of them at a >word processor and fairly simple DTP level. This is by far the most difficult way to go. M'soft/Mac products are intentionally incompatible in two ways for simple reasons: a) Incompatible with everybody else to make them feel they got the wrong product. b) Incompatible with themselves to ensure that "Scribble n+1" will sell even to those who are content/fed-up. Although everybodys precious data are at stake this is widely accepted and will not change for good. Instead of OP becoming read-/write-all (M'soft/Mac can't do that themselves) I would rather suggest You find an open albeit basic standard to exchange data. Otherwise we will be seen fighting windmills forever. >3. A third is to extend the OPro facilities to cover more of what people like >me need: word processor and fairly simple DTP for writing articles, reports >(I don't mean reports on pupils) and so on. In particular, we need facilities >that are in Style or Impression but not in OPro, particularly paragraph >numbering and perhaps a simpler approach to repeat frames. Reports, schedules - sounds good to me too. Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Fri May 22 19:24:28 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66790 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 19:24:24 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895853252:10:10981:0; Fri, 22 May 98 16:07:32 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010498; 22 May 98 16:07 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA06850 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:06:56 +0200 Message-Id: <199805221606.SAA06850@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 22 May 1998 09:00:03 GMT Subject: Re: Various (electronic handbook) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >>Has somebody done a Strong-Help manual or anything like it for all of >>the script-routines? > >It would be a good idea for us to combine the printed manual and the >new functions documents. I'm not so sure if the powers that be would >agree though. Obviously making the whole manual available as a document >would be nice - but tempting widespread piracy. I once did print the german handbook to PS and converted that to PDF for curiosity (and it worked fine with !pdf too). Made a nice handy file but You won't see that crawling from my harddisc not only because I deleted it. You may walk the dog and install OP wherever else You like but, sho'nuff, You're not going to walk the cat. Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Fri May 22 19:24:29 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66791 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 19:24:25 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895853226:05:12056:1; Fri, 22 May 98 16:07:06 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2102415; 22 May 98 16:07 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA06853 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:06:57 +0200 Message-Id: <199805221606.SAA06853@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 22 May 1998 09:13:46 GMT Subject: Re: Various (going upper case) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >>Can anyone help me? I want to create a macro and button for the toolbar >>that will change a selected block of text into upper case. Why not just press CS_S when the text is selected. There is already a nice macro ("swapcase") and icon provided. Oh, You want them all upper case, why not use the option "Case" for effects/styles (which Imp does not have)? Leaves You just to create a button for it. Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Fri May 22 19:24:38 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66792 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 19:24:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895853232:20:22103:3; Fri, 22 May 98 16:07:12 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2022079; 22 May 98 16:07 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA06856 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:06:58 +0200 Message-Id: <199805221606.SAA06856@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 22 May 1998 11:05:45 GMT Subject: Re: Damned PS Again! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: > ERROR: ioerror > OFFENDING COMMAND: colorimage > > STACK: > > 3 > false > -filestream- > [1.0 0.0 0.0 -1.0 0.0 175.0 ] > 8 > 175 > 444 > -savelevel- > -savelevel- > >Anyone? (As in, what's going on?) If You are using Printers below 1.53 You should upgrade. There once was an error in the Acorn PS-rendering routines for deep sprites. It could be fixed by hand in one of the prolog-files but I forgot about that when Acorn fixed it themselves. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri May 22 19:57:07 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66804 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 19:57:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895861985:20:04770:0; Fri, 22 May 98 18:33:05 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2103343; 22 May 98 18:33 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ycwcq-0005sP-00; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:33:04 +0100 Date: Fri, 22 May 98 17:23:38 GMT Message-Id: <66784@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 News ==== A demo version of OPro is available from; http://www.beebug.com/software/ovpro/opdemo.zip This is a complete copy of the program, except it won't save documents or DDL. Example documents etc. are included. If you want to stick it on a CD ROM or whatever then contact sheridan@beebug.co.uk for permission. I have put a complete set of Beebug applets on the web pages. These are all the latest versions, the changes are slight, and there's no great reason to download them. In the future though this will be where to find the latest versions. I've invented a policy of removing all third party stuff from the Beebug web site. This is because the alternative OPro web site is very good and can do this job better than I can. It also will reduce the effort I have to put into the web site. I think the files in question have already appeared on; http://www1.che.hw.ac.uk/~ovpro And they will soon vanish from the Beebug site. From: > From my understanding of the manual it says that headers and footers > are treated as individual frames so shouldn't I be able to vertically > justify the header without it affecting the footer and main frame? This is not a bug. It is an unintended consequence or catch though. Any frame can have a header/footer space, but a frame only has one flag for vertical justification. To that extent headers and footers are not separate frames. You could certainly get around the problem by constructing a document where the 'header/footers' were just ordinary text frames. From: Tim King >It remained a JPEG. Incidently, where do I tell OP to convert them? & is >there a problem if I do (ie does the bitmap format remain in the PS)? Level >2? What difference would that make? The theory is that PS level 2 can have JPEG'd data in it. Level 1 can't. If you have an application with a JPEG in it and print, then that JPEG can end up in the PS file. There are potential savings in PS file size. But there are some catches. OPro can't image process JPEG's - that means it can't do separations of them either. Also of course you can't rotate them. To stop OPro loading JPEG's find this bit in your Autorun.!Custom file if(osclis(s)) impexbits(0xC85,1,0); And simply delete the first line. (I can't recall what the official way of achieving this is, I'm sure you'll find it in the release notes etc.) >> Also presumeably you can try the PS on GhostScript 4? >Presumably ;-) I've got the current download (4.03). Drop any file on, it >chugs away for 5 secs or so, and then I always get: >Re GS (because it should be really useful); where do you put the fonts? I have a fonts1 and fonts2 directory inside !GhostScr. Seems to work well. I'd say get GS going. If you can then reproduce the problem using it, I'd be very interested to see the PS or the original document. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From m.r.devon@bath.ac.uk Fri May 22 21:51:43 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66806 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 21:51:42 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895868876:20:00370:3; Fri, 22 May 98 20:27:56 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk ([138.38.32.2]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2000344; 22 May 98 20:27 GMT Received: (qmail 20786 invoked from network); 22 May 1998 20:27:50 -0000 Received: from mary.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 22 May 1998 20:27:50 -0000 Received: from ppp12-annex.bath.ac.uk by mary.bath.ac.uk id aa14130; 22 May 98 21:27 BST Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:15:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Martin Devon Subject: Re: memory needs (was Various) To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980522.011225.64@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: M.R. Devon Consulting Engineer, Bath X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] On Fri 22 May, David Pilling wrote: > > From: Paul Hutton > > > >We have a site licence of OPro version 2.46n. > >If I use the 2.49 upgrade off the OPro site, will it affect us in any way? > > This has been discussed here in recent weeks. AFAIK it won't cause problems. We have found that to be the case. > > > >we have recently installed OPro 2.46 onto our A4000s at school. > >Sometimes though, when OPro is loaded, when the classes try to type, there > >is no response; the caret flashes in the top left hand corner, but nothing > >can be typed, >I'd look if memory was running out. Can you load > documents and see their contents... > With reasonable screen, sprite, font and module areas set up for general use, (160,128/256/256K) we found it impossible to run OPro and !Printers simultaneously in a 4Mb machine and load a reasonable document. IMO 8Mb is the absolute bottom line and not only for OPro - Fresco runs out of 4Mb in no time. (Talk to Simtec about bulk memory upgrades?). Martin Devon Stonar School -- From dominik.wagner@t-online.de Fri May 22 21:51:46 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66807 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 22 May 98 21:51:44 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895869110:12:10181:0; Fri, 22 May 98 20:31:50 GMT Received: from mailout02.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.150]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2103535; 22 May 98 20:31 GMT Received: from fwd15.btx.dtag.de (fwd15.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.175]) by mailout02.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 0ycyRh-0007F3-00; Fri, 22 May 1998 22:29:41 +0200 Received: from 000488668221080712250#0002.t-online.de (080712250-0002(btxid)@[193.159.110.146]) by fwd15.btx.dtag.de with smtp id ; Fri, 22 May 1998 22:29:23 +0200 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:23:22 +0200 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Various Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980522.011225.64@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60j X-Sender: 080712250-0002@t-online.de From:(Dominik Wagner) In message <19980522.011225.64@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > From:(Dominik Wagner) > > > >Is there a funktion wich moves a tab or gets and sets the position of a > >tab? > > No. Is setting up tabs vital? I'd think that something which did all > the work of numbering etc. was the key bit. > In my opinion getting the numbering and then setting the tabs and insets manually is too fuzzy. Maybe I introduce bullet-styles wich have some fixed insets and tabs, but this isn't very pleasing. BTW: Is there a posibility to select all tabs in the ruler easily? > > >Has somebody done a Strong-Help manual or anything like it for all of > >the script-routines? > > It would be a good idea for us to combine the printed manual and the > new functions documents. I'm not so sure if the powers that be would > agree though. Obviously making the whole manual available as a document > would be nice - but tempting widespread piracy. No, not the whole manual, only the script-functions! I think this wouldn't cause more piracy! But more applets maybe. Bye, Dominik From pete.bready@cableol.co.uk Sat May 23 14:15:03 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66858 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 23 May 98 14:15:02 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895909203:10:26004:0; Sat, 23 May 98 07:40:03 GMT Received: from mars.cableol.net ([194.168.4.224]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1121790; 23 May 98 7:40 GMT Received: from desdemona-83.cableol.net by mars.cableol.net; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Feb96-0403PM) id AA31084; Sat, 23 May 1998 08:40:00 +0100 Message-Id: <3566EE25.6300@cableol.co.uk> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:41:25 -0700 From: Pete Bready Organization: Home X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: All caps Macro? References: <19980522.011247.29@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Hutton wrote: > > Dear all > > Can anyone help me? I want to create a macro and button for the toolbar > that will change a selected block of text into upper case. It's not often (if ever) that I would seem to be scoring a point over the inestimable Mr Pilling, but the following would appear to be a more direct means to your end. Define new buttons with, for example, the names (without quotes) and macro strings as shown: Function Name macro Normal " a " {case_entry(0,0)} Title "Aa" {case_entry(1,0)} Al Caps "AB" {case_entry(2,0)} While these don't have the toggle effect of swapcase, they seem to do the trick. I stumbled across these while rummaging through !Menus in the Autorun directory - similar calls may also work to effect the actions of other menu entries. Pete Bready pete.bready@cableol.co.uk From wstott@oranget.co.uk Sat May 23 14:15:07 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66861 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 23 May 98 14:15:05 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895912816:20:09608:0; Sat, 23 May 98 08:40:16 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2009578; 23 May 98 8:40 GMT Received: from (be34.argonet.co.uk) [193.130.250.184] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yd9qc-0002nT-00; Sat, 23 May 1998 09:40:11 +0100 Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:38:22 +0200 From: Willie Stott To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: OVATION (Yes...) and Full font cache Message-ID: <1b37a24a48%wstott@oranget.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <19980423.021115.49@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60i In message <19980423.021115.49@pilling.demon.co.uk> paul@tyto.demon.co.uk (Paul Hutton) wrote: > Dear all > > Yes, I am talking about Ovation, the Pre Pro version (1.46S). On one- and > only one- of our school A4000 4mb computers, when trying to print the most > mundane piece of work, the timer goes and then we are given an error > message: > Font Cache Full; print cancelled > IIRC I had this (or somethinig similar) a few months back. The problem was a faulty font. I suggest you find which fonts areused in the work non-printing work and re-install it/them. Willie -- --------- wstottATargonet.co.uk ------------- ^ correct address ^ From ovprochat@thouky.tcp.co.uk Sat May 23 14:15:09 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66862 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 23 May 98 14:15:08 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895913698:10:29242:0; Sat, 23 May 98 08:54:58 GMT Received: from poseidon.tcp.net.uk ([195.80.0.34]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1029048; 23 May 98 8:54 GMT Received: from thouky.tcp.co.uk (ah221.du.pipex.com [193.130.247.221]) by poseidon.tcp.net.uk (8.8.8/8.8+antispam) with SMTP id JAA26863; Sat, 23 May 1998 09:54:40 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:31:37 +0100 (BST) From: Alexander Thoukydides Subject: Re: Various To: "Ovation Pro: Mailing List" , C.A.Johnson@hw.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <19980523.023026.09@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: As little as possible X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] On Sat 23 May, David Pilling wrote: > > I've invented a policy of removing all third party stuff from the Beebug > web site. This is because the alternative OPro web site is very good and > can do this job better than I can. It also will reduce the effort I have to > put into the web site. > > I think the files in question have already appeared on; > > http://www1.che.hw.ac.uk/~ovpro That URL points to a nearly 3MB X-File... -- -- Alexander Thoukydides E-mail: -- Bournemouth, England WWW: From dominik.wagner@t-online.de Sat May 23 21:37:17 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66880 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 23 May 98 21:37:14 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895948433:10:22765:0; Sat, 23 May 98 18:33:53 GMT Received: from mailout02.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.150]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1110095; 23 May 98 18:33 GMT Received: from fwd07.btx.dtag.de (fwd07.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.167]) by mailout02.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 0ydJ5y-0007TU-00; Sat, 23 May 1998 20:32:38 +0200 Received: from 000488668221080712250#0002.t-online.de (080712250-0002(btxid)@[193.158.170.8]) by fwd07.btx.dtag.de with smtp id ; Sat, 23 May 1998 20:32:33 +0200 Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 20:23:52 +0200 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Bullet List Hack Message-ID: <1a50dd4a48%Dominik@000488668221080712250#0002.t-online.de> In-Reply-To: <19980523.023040.63@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60j X-Sender: 080712250-0002@t-online.de From:(Dominik Wagner) My !BulletFix - bullet list hack is available to download at my homepage (http://www.arcsite.de/hp/dragon/) Short description: Applet !Bulletfix 1.00 ---------------------- Introduces a simple bullet list functionality for OvationPro. This applet simply takes a selection of paragraphs, adds a bullet or number string plus a tab in front of each of these paragraphs and thereafter opens the tabs box to move insets as desired. It can remove these bullets by removing everything from return to tab in each of the selected paragraphs. Bye, Dominik --=20 -- mailto:Dominik.Wagner@t-online.de ------------------- Acorn Nutzer, DTV-T=E4nzer, C-Programmierer, Gymnasiast, Brettspiele, Sportwart TC Inn-Casino (http://www.tanzen.wasserburg.de) e.V. Homepage unter: http://www.arcsite.de/hp/dragon/ - Always look on the Arcsite of your life - http://www.arcsite.de/ From awarrick@argonet.co.uk Sat May 23 21:37:21 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66882 for maillist ; Sat, 23 May 98 21:37:20 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for maillist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895953796:05:15925:2; Sat, 23 May 98 20:03:16 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2006049; 23 May 98 20:02 GMT Received: from (193.130.250.170) [193.130.250.170] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ydKVI-0002my-00; Sat, 23 May 1998 21:02:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Adrian Warrick To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 16:06:46 +0100 Message-ID: <484acb448bawarrick@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: OP mailing Content-Type: text/plain Hi all Just wondered if we might use a prefix in the subject so that all OP related mail is immediately identifiable? Maybe the initials OP as in this subject heading? All the best Adrian -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ awarrick@argonet.co.uk From gja@menzieshigh.demon.co.uk Sun May 24 02:30:05 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66897 for maillist ; Sun, 24 May 98 02:30:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for maillist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895964952:20:06088:1; Sat, 23 May 98 23:09:12 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2104453; 23 May 98 23:09 GMT Received: from menzieshigh.demon.co.uk ([194.222.73.187]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2011402; 23 May 98 23:08 GMT From: Mr Allsopp To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 23 May 1998 23:06:07 GMT Subject: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.50 Message-ID: <895964915.2011402.0@menzieshigh.demon.co.uk> >From Graeme Allsopp GJA@menzieshigh.demon.co.uk Dear All 1) I use Ovpro at school on a network: Server = A5000, stations 4Mb 3020's Level 4 with ethernet conections. When I first up graded from Ovation I put the !ColSupp in the appletts dir. along with: !Arrange, !abbrev, !Ovation1, !ColPal and !OArtWrks. I experienced frequent crashes siting the "Trap-Handler" error. I solved this eventually by removing the !ColSupp applet. However I still want to have this applet active for its advantages. Any suggestions? NB. This is not a memory problem as I have experienced precisely the same problem and solution using Ovpro on a stand alone: RiscPC600 OS 3.6 VRAM 2Mb DRAM 16Mb with 10Mb free! 2)Re Martin Devon Memory needs. I have only experienced memory problems with larger docs. Most of our pupils create docs with few pages and images. Some larger docs. with JPEG images run out of memory but so far this is a minor problem. However, I would be greateful for the address of Simtec. Are 8Mb upgrades available for 3020's? 3) CAN ANYONE HELP PLEASE? I am experiencing problems when saving larger docs. (over 1Mb). What happens is the station just hangs partway through the save and only a re-boot gets it back. The REAL problem though is that this corrupts the file on disc causing Ovpro to suffer a fatal error type 5 when the file is subsequently loaded. All I can do for my kids is to drop the file to !Edit and recover the plain text that is save prior to the crash and if the crash happens at say 30% this is not much. ANY HELP ON THIS COULD UPSET MY PUPILS BY PROLONGING MY LIFE! From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Sun May 24 02:58:13 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66908 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 24 May 98 02:58:12 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895974262:20:01150:0; Sun, 24 May 98 01:44:22 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2105682; 24 May 98 1:44 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ydPpS-0002fM-00; Sun, 24 May 1998 02:44:02 +0100 Date: Sun, 24 May 98 02:42:31 GMT Message-Id: <66904@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: Mr Allsopp >When I first up graded from Ovation I put the !ColSupp >I experienced frequent crashes siting the "Trap-Handler" My first guess or suggestion is that there was a problem with the colour supplement. Typically you have to have 'use inks' selected, and then eventually just typing will result in this crash. The fix is to upgrade to OPro 2.49 *and* the latest colour supplement from the Beebug web site. Note you can't mix versions, new program version means a new colour supplement. >I am experiencing problems when saving larger docs. (over >1Mb). I hope some of the networks experts can help you. My two penny worth is that this is probably a side effect of OPro saving files using the filing system block save functions (take a chunk of memory and save as a file). This is the fastest way of doing things. It would perhaps be interesting to know if you try to save from say Edit a similarly large file if you get the same effect - in which case you can blame the network FS. Edit and Paint also do block saves. Other programs e.g. Ovation 1 don't. From: Alexander Thoukydides >That URL points to a nearly 3MB X-File... Hmm. Sounds like a tip on how to download the complete web site. Maybe I knocked off the last slash. i.e. should be; http://www1.che.hw.ac.uk/~ovpro/ David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From df.symes@argonet.co.uk Sun May 24 14:03:06 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66934 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 24 May 98 14:03:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 895997393:12:17212:2; Sun, 24 May 98 08:09:53 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2115397; 24 May 98 8:09 GMT Received: from (193.130.247.201) [193.130.247.201] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ydVqn-0007SH-00; Sun, 24 May 1998 09:09:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: D.A.Symes To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:01:49 +0100 Message-ID: <484b2832e4df.symes@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: OP mailing In-Reply-To: <19980524.030333.35@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 24 May, Adrian Warrick wrote: > Hi all > Just wondered if we might use a prefix in the subject so that all OP > related mail is immediately identifiable? > Maybe the initials OP as in this subject heading? > All the best > Adrian Pardon...! All my OvPro related mail is immediately identifiable, as is my Pluto mail, and others I won't mention. It might be something to do with the inestimable Mr Duddington. ;-) Dave S -- _________________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... df.symes@argonet.co.uk Phone/Fax (01202) 432 489 ...Mem...Clan Acorn...Mem...BSFA and others... http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/df.symes Wot... No tag line! ....^I^.... From steve.harratt@argonet.co.uk Sun May 24 14:03:13 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66939 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 24 May 98 14:03:11 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896007966:10:16734:0; Sun, 24 May 98 11:06:06 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1016600; 24 May 98 11:06 GMT Received: from (193.130.245.251) [193.130.245.251] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ydYbI-0001NL-00; Sun, 24 May 1998 12:06:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steve To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:01:48 +0100 Message-ID: <484b38ad36steve.harratt@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Bullet List Hack In-Reply-To: <19980524.030326.35@pilling.demon.co.uk> Return-Receipt-To: steve.harratt@argonet.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain On 24 May, Dominik Wagner wrote: > My !BulletFix - bullet list hack is available to download at my > homepage (http://www.arcsite.de/hp/dragon/) > Short description: > Applet !Bulletfix 1.00 > ---------------------- > Introduces a simple bullet list functionality for OvationPro. > This applet simply takes a selection of paragraphs, adds a bullet > or number string plus a tab in front of each of these paragraphs > and thereafter opens the tabs box to move insets as desired. > It can remove these bullets by removing everything from return to > tab in each of the selected paragraphs. > Bye, > Dominik > --=20 > -- mailto:Dominik.Wagner@t-online.de ------------------- > Acorn Nutzer, DTV-T=E4nzer, C-Programmierer, Gymnasiast, Brettspiele, > Sportwart TC Inn-Casino (http://www.tanzen.wasserburg.de) e.V. > Homepage unter: http://www.arcsite.de/hp/dragon/ > - Always look on the Arcsite of your life - http://www.arcsite.de/ > To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@pilling.demon.co.uk > with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l > To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l Hello Dominik I have just downloaded you bullet app, however it seems to appear on my machine as gibberish. How do I get it to work? In your web page you say it is in pack Dir format yet my pack dir says it does not recognise it. Please help. Thanks -- _____ __ ____________________________________ / ___// /____ _ _____ | Change 'NoSpam' to 'argonet' | \__ \/ __/ _ \ | / / _ \ | Steve Harratt LRPS | ___/ / /_/ __/ |/ / __/ | Tel (01302) 535891 | /____/\__/\___/|___/\___/ | email steve.harratt@argonet.co.uk | |____________________________________| -- From bernard.hill@virgin.net Sun May 24 14:28:50 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66955 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 24 May 98 14:28:48 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896016471:20:17510:3; Sun, 24 May 98 13:27:51 GMT Received: from newmail.virgin.net ([194.168.54.44]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2112762; 24 May 98 13:27 GMT Received: from bernard.hill.virgin.net ([194.168.67.20]) by newmail.virgin.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 1-55555U125000L125000S0) with SMTP id AAA15920 for ; Sun, 24 May 1998 13:27:46 +0000 Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 14:19:04 +0100 (BST) From: "Bernard G. Hill" Subject: Leadering To: Ovation Mail Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Bernard G. Hill, Telephone/Fax:01633 880197 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] Many thanks to Kevin Simpson for the simple work around for selective leadering. This superimposition of two syles does give the opportunity to change the type size for the leadering string, which is very useful sometimes especially when the main text is in a large bold style, allowing the leader lines to be much smaller and neater. It is also possible to change the typeface as well; opening up all kinds of typographical creativity. Are these features which could be incorporated if? when? leaders are attached to the tab and not to the ruler as a whole? Berni. -- Bernard G. Hill Tel/Fax: 01633 880197 Zion, Church Road Undy, Newport e-mail bernard.hill@virgin.net Monmouthshire NP6 3EN From alan.gray@argonet.co.uk Tue May 26 22:24:12 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66970 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:24:10 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896020211:10:10090:1; Sun, 24 May 98 14:30:11 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010032; 24 May 98 14:30 GMT Received: from (193.130.244.70) [193.130.244.70] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ydbmp-0003MR-00; Sun, 24 May 1998 15:30:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:( Dr A G Gray) Reply-To: alan.gray@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sun, 24 May 98 09:38:46 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Adding an embedded graphic at the cursor Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: I frequently use a Draw file of my signature when sending FAXes from OP. Can anyone come up with a method of putting this in a document at the cursor position either from a key short-cut, or perhaps a button on the button-bar, rather than having to drag it from its directory? -- Alan.Gray@argonet.co.uk Dr A.G.Gray. Great Warley, Essex. UK http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/alan.gray N 51 33'58" E 00 17'35" G3XQU (DXCC=323/328) Acorn RiscPC S/A 202MHz From djh39@thor.cam.ac.uk Tue May 26 22:24:18 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66973 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:24:16 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896039178:20:16407:8; Sun, 24 May 98 19:46:18 GMT Received: from hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2111334; 24 May 98 19:45 GMT Received: from djh39 (helo=localhost) by hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.926 #2) for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 0ydgiD-00076u-00; Sun, 24 May 1998 20:45:41 +0100 Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 20:45:41 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Hawkins X-Sender: djh39@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Re: OP mailing In-Reply-To: <19980524.030333.35@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Dave Hawkins On Sun, 24 May 1998, Adrian Warrick wrote: > Just wondered if we might use a prefix in the subject so that all OP > related mail is immediately identifiable? Has your e-mail software got filtering capabilities? If so you can just separate out the mailing list by 'Reply-To:' address. ('fraid I don't know which Acorn e-mail software does do this though - I read all my mail off a UNIX box.) Dave From jake@argonet.co.uk Tue May 26 22:24:19 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66974 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:24:17 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896042529:10:06765:2; Sun, 24 May 98 20:42:09 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1104156; 24 May 98 20:42 GMT Received: from (193.130.245.123) [193.130.245.123] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ydhak-0000Qr-00; Sun, 24 May 1998 21:42:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Keith Goodier) Reply-To: jake@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sun, 24 May 98 21:00:53 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: MenziesHigh Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: On Sun 24 May 98 (03:03:40 +0100), gja@menzieshigh.demon.co.uk wrote: >........................... However, I would be >greateful for the address of Simtec. Are 8Mb upgrades >available for 3020's? Simtec Electronics Avondale Drive Tarleton Preston Lancs. PR4 6AX 01772-812863 01772-816426 I'd recommend direct contact. Although there are various email addresses for Simtec email response from them isn't at all quick for some reason. As far as I know the A3020 won't expand beyond 4Mb. If you discover otherwise I'd be delighted to know about it ;-) -- |/ |\eith jake@argonet.co.uk Ormskirk, Lancs. From stuart.morris@argonet.co.uk Tue May 26 22:24:21 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66975 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:24:20 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896039441:12:18670:0; Sun, 24 May 98 19:50:41 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2018598; 24 May 98 19:50 GMT Received: from (193.130.251.48) [193.130.251.48] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ydgmP-0007Ph-00; Sun, 24 May 1998 20:50:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:( S Morris) Reply-To: stuart.morris@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sat, 23 May 98 21:02:54 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: Damned PS Again! Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: > If You are using Printers below 1.53 You should upgrade. There once >was an error in the Acorn PS-rendering routines for deep sprites. It >could be fixed by hand in one of the prolog-files but I forgot about >that when Acorn fixed it >themselves. No. I am using Printers v 1.54, so I presume it is the Argo Zip driver not allowing the printer to work. -- stuart.morris@argonet.co.uk From df.symes@argonet.co.uk Tue May 26 22:24:24 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66977 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:24:23 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896039570:05:24635:0; Sun, 24 May 98 19:52:50 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2020164; 24 May 98 19:52 GMT Received: from (193.130.244.235) [193.130.244.235] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ydgp5-0007T2-00; Sun, 24 May 1998 20:52:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: D.A.Symes To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 20:51:16 +0100 Message-ID: <484b6926addf.symes@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Applets Content-Type: text/plain Considering how important a part, Applets play in extending the facilities of Ovation Pro, how come there is no button to bring up the Applets window? I've just spent half an hour trying to get a macro to work... to bring up the Applets window at the click of a button, without success... well I've been successful at getting error messages. :-) Can some kind person enlighten please. And as a slight aside, searching through AutoRun !Menus... shows no entry in the menu structure for Applets. So how does it get on the bottom of the Ov Pro main menu? Cheers Dave S -- _________________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... df.symes@argonet.co.uk Phone/Fax (01202) 432 489 ...Mem...Clan Acorn...Mem...BSFA and others... http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/df.symes Wot... No tag line! ....^I^.... From ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk Tue May 26 22:24:31 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66982 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:24:29 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896087073:10:09920:0; Mon, 25 May 98 09:04:33 GMT Received: from llyr.cee.hw.ac.uk ([137.195.52.200]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1114720; 25 May 98 9:04 GMT Received: from adonis.cee.hw.ac.uk by llyr.cee.hw.ac.uk{with smtp } (ident root using rfc1413) (Smail3.2.0.101 #8) id m0ydtBA-00075pC; Mon, 25 May 1998 10:04:24 +0100 (BST) Received: by adonis.cee.hw.ac.uk (Smail3.1.28.1 #116) id m0ydtB4-000BinC; Mon, 25 May 98 10:04 WET DST Message-Id: From:(Matthew Hambley) Subject: Re: OP mailing To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:04:17 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <19980524.030333.35@pilling.demon.co.uk> from "Adrian Warrick" at May 24, 98 03:03:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 918 > Just wondered if we might use a prefix in the subject so that all OP > related mail is immediately identifiable? > > Maybe the initials OP as in this subject heading? Are you sugesting that the Ovation Pro mailing list needs a subject indicator to show it's about Ovatino Pro? When I first read that I thought it was monumentaly silly. However, now I think I see what you're getting at. This mailing list is munged into your incoming mail box along with all your other mail isn't it. I sugest you set up a filter to split it off into a seperate mail box. Any mail handling system worth its salts should be able to do this. -- (\/)atthew Hambley ---------------------\ We all live in a yellow computer, term : ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk \ a yellow computer, holiday : mhambley@arcade.demon.co.uk \ a yellow computer. web : http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceemah/ \---------------------------------- From ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk Tue May 26 22:24:34 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66984 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:24:32 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896045344:20:13166:0; Sun, 24 May 98 21:29:04 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2113349; 24 May 98 21:28 GMT Received: from gvine.demon.co.uk ([158.152.98.218]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2006338; 24 May 98 21:27 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gvine.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Sun, 24 May 1998 21:28:21 GMT Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 22:28:11 +0100 From: Alan Muscat To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Moving Ovation Message-ID: Organization: Grapevine Digital Arts X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60f I recently installed a new hard disc amd copied over all my stuff from the old HD. OPro say that it was not installed on that drive so it won't play, I would have to run the install program and drog the App to it. This I did using program disc 1 but I get a message telling me to use a different installer. Help. -- Alan Muscat Choose Acorn - 24 users can't all be wrong. *************** Grapevine Digital Arts *********************** ************** http://www.gvine.demon.co.uk ********************* From john@jevans.demon.co.uk Tue May 26 22:24:39 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66987 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:24:38 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896050222:20:24492:1; Sun, 24 May 98 22:50:22 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2100863; 24 May 98 22:50 GMT Received: from jevans.demon.co.uk ([158.152.4.3]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2012162; 24 May 98 22:50 GMT Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 23:35:57 +0100 From: John Evans To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: OP mailing Message-ID: <484B783A6B%john@jevans.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <19980524.030333.35@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: Archimedes X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21 Return-Receipt-To: john@jevans.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60j Why do you need to identify them. You could always redirect them into a folder. I use the filter in Newsbase to redirect all mail with ovationp-l in the TO tag However, whilst on the point of decent subject texts this is a very minor gripe against David Pilling but I would definitely prefer all his helpful advice be replied using the original message Subject. There is a lot of mail to go through ( which is a good thing) however, there are a lot of problems being addressed that I am not interested in (eg Postscript and professional colour printing) and I would However, that said the actual software is excellent! Bullet Points and item lists and I would be one happy bunny. In message <19980524.030333.35@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > Hi all > > Just wondered if we might use a prefix in the subject so that all OP > related mail is immediately identifiable? > > Maybe the initials OP as in this subject heading? > > All the best > > Adrian > From timk@ns.planet.gen.nz Tue May 26 22:24:40 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66985 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:24:35 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896101714:10:16192:0; Mon, 25 May 98 13:08:34 GMT Received: from brainy.nzplink.co.nz ([203.98.52.1]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1120626; 25 May 98 13:08 GMT Received: from timk.ns.planet.gen.nz (as5200-28.kiwilink.co.nz [203.98.52.88]) by brainy.kiwilink.co.nz (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:39:58 +1200 (GMT) From: Tim King Subject: Re: PS & OP To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980523.023026.09@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: De-Sign, Nth Shore City, New Zealand X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] On Sat 23 May, David Pilling wrote: blah blah - a whole lot of stuff on JPEGs Downloaded Ghostscript again and this time it works fine. The problem *does* reproduce, and it's not only JPEGs. Sprites too. And from !Printers 1.54 (levels 1 & 2), as well as !Printers 1.28. OP 2.49, of course. With the same bitmaps, page/frame sizes etc, Publisher is churning them out with no problems whatsoever. Grrrr. I'm about to reinstall OP & make sure everything like ColSupp is right up to date, & will send David a sample PS - but from the list, can *no-one* reproduce this? thanks: tim -- d e - S i g . ph +64 9 478.3114 From ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk Tue May 26 22:24:46 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA66991 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:24:44 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896115172:10:23913:0; Mon, 25 May 98 16:52:52 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1119332; 25 May 98 16:52 GMT Received: from (gvine.demon.co.uk) [158.152.98.218] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ye0UR-0000AQ-00; Mon, 25 May 1998 17:52:48 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gvine.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Sun, 24 May 1998 21:59:32 GMT Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 22:59:20 +0100 From: Alan Muscat To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: PS & Fiery Message-ID: <36e0744b48%ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <19980523.022942.88@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: Grapevine Digital Arts X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60f In message <19980523.022942.88@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > Re GS (because it should be really useful); where do you put the fonts? I > shoved them in a dir - Fonts - in the !GS directory, though since there are > more than 77 files there's also a Fonts2. > > Am I the only one able to screw up bitmaps for a Fiery, or are there others > just as good? I have a working version of GS 4.03. First off you should have everything in a filing system that handles longfilesnames otherwise some names get contracted. I have 2 directories of fonts in the !GhostScr dir, they are called Fonts1 and Fonts2, though I can't remember if these names are essential or not. In the same dir there is a file called Fontmap; I don't know if this is essential either, but there you go. I'm amazed that I got it to work but it is well worth doing. Of course, I am using it with the !Gview front end. I am using X-files as the longfilenames filing system. Hope that helps. Since I know a lot of people have had difficulty getting GS to work, and how useful they would find it, I am willing to post my working version to anyone who sends me a dics and a sae. Unfortunateley, as it is 6 meg in size, and nearly 3meg compressed, it would have to be a zip disc, or I suppose it is possible to split over 2 discs, but that gets messy. I could consider putting it on my web pages as a sparkive, I'm still using a 14,400 so it would take a while to upload, I'll think about it. But would you want to download a 3 meg file? -- Alan Muscat Choose Acorn - 24 users can't all be wrong. *************** Grapevine Digital Arts *********************** ************** http://www.gvine.demon.co.uk ********************* From c.a.johnson@hw.ac.uk Tue May 26 22:27:21 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67004 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:27:19 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896110091:20:04395:15; Mon, 25 May 98 15:28:11 GMT Received: from pp.hw.ac.uk ([137.195.151.253]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2123414; 25 May 98 15:28 GMT Received: from isambard.che.hw.ac.uk by pp.hw.ac.uk with SMTP(trusted); Mon, 25 May 1998 16:27:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Chris Johnson To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:29:42 +0100 Message-ID: <484bd50a0bC.A.Johnson@isambard.che.hw.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Alt resources web site (was Re: Various) In-Reply-To: <19980524.030347.72@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 24 May, David Pilling wrote: > From: Alexander Thoukydides > >That URL points to a nearly 3MB X-File... > Hmm. Sounds like a tip on how to download the complete web site. > Maybe I knocked off the last slash. i.e. should be; > http://www1.che.hw.ac.uk/~ovpro/ Yes - unfortunately that seems to be the way the Alphanet server deals with a WebFS (aka x-files) directory. The OVPro resources pages are the only part of the site that are contained in an x-file. I thought it would be useful for the long filename capability, etc, the lack of which I found rather restricting on the rest of the site. Although the OVPro part of the site has been running for a couple of months I had not realised this happens. If you go too far up the directory structure, and then omit the final / from the url, then Alphanet does not recognise that the x-file should be treated as a directory, and instead sends the whole d**n x-file. Therefore use the url as given above *including* the final / and you then get the pages from within the x-file without realising it comes from such a file. Chris -- Chris Johnson mailto: C.A.Johnson@hw.ac.uk Department of Chemistry phone: 0131 449 5111 x 4116 Heriot-Watt University Edinburgh EH14 4AS From andyp@argonet.co.uk Tue May 26 22:27:23 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67005 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:27:22 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896115697:12:09559:4; Mon, 25 May 98 17:01:37 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2114779; 25 May 98 17:01 GMT Received: from (193.130.245.166) [193.130.245.166] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ye0cO-0002r7-00; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:01:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Andy Piper To: OvnPro Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 15:32:15 +0100 Message-ID: <484bcfc763andyp@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Wrong help messages Content-Type: text/plain X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21beta Has anyone else found that in 2.49 the Help messages for the Info window appear when the pointer is over the New Document window, and the messages that should be associated with the icon bar icon appear when the pointer is over the Info window? The icon bar icon appears not to respond to help messages, either. A known oddity, or have I done something wrong with an upgrade somewhere to cause the messages to get out of sync? Andy -- Andy Piper andyp@argonet.co.uk Fareham, Hampshire Acorn Resources and More at *** All views expressed are my own! *** From frank@watsnees.demon.co.uk Tue May 26 22:27:33 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67009 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:27:31 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896133436:20:16285:12; Mon, 25 May 98 21:57:16 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2105332; 25 May 98 21:57 GMT Received: from watsnees.demon.co.uk ([194.222.88.143]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1023563; 25 May 98 21:56 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Frank Watkinson To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:33:32 +0100 Message-ID: <484be06061frank@watsnees.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Helpful macros...Button Bar bug? In-Reply-To: <19980423.020952.21@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 23 Apr, Peter Daniel wrote: > Here are some short macros Ian sent me for turing the colour, style > and page palettes on and off from the button bar. Just create > buttons with these macros. > {stylepal_entry(0,0)} > {colpal_entry(0,0)} > {pagepal_entry(0,0)} > I have drawn some sprites for them which I will send to anyone > who is interested. I have just got around to setting these up with their button sprites. You may be interested in a buglet that showed itself. I created three new buttons from the Macros dbox, called stylepal, etc. I then typed in the macros from above and ticked each to the right of the definitions. This put the three buttons on the button bar in the top row at the right hand end, and I remembered to save the whole from the dbox. Then I decided that for my way of working I would place the three buttons close to the left end of the button bar. I CTRL-Select-dragged each in turn to its new position. All was well until I tried to drag the third button, when I got the message!: "OvationPro has suffered an internal error type=5" Naturally this was fatal and OPro exited on clicking on . I checked the macro definition: found correct, as above. I tried again and found that the fatal error was generated immediately on pressing Select with the pointer over the button. This was totally reproducible; that is, I gave up after six tries. I resolved the problem by editing "!OvnPro.AutoRun.!Macros" directly. I simply moved the appropriate line to where I wanted it in the sequence of definitions in that file. I saved it, and re-loaded OPro and there the three buttons were, just as I wanted them. I have never previously had any problems with re-arranging the button bar by dragging! I wonder what caused it to take umbrage this time? The buttons are useful, not just for switching on and off, but additionally for bringing the palettes to the front when they have become obscured by other windows. Thanks to all concerned for these buttons. Regards. Frank. (OPro 2.49) -- Frank Watkinson. email: using !Pluto 1.08h on RPC, SA, OS 3.70, Window Manager 3.98, new !Boot from !Browse. From paul@tyto.demon.co.uk Tue May 26 22:27:46 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67013 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:27:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896176567:20:24479:2; Tue, 26 May 98 09:56:07 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2108099; 26 May 98 9:56 GMT Received: from tyto.demon.co.uk ([194.222.110.18]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1018231; 26 May 98 9:55 GMT Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:19:06 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Hutton Subject: Re: Changing discard? To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980523.022927.82@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] On Sat 23 May, Matthew Hambley wrote: > > Does anyone knpw of a way of changing the word Discard (as in closing > > Discard/save/Cancel) to "Bin"? I think this is a general Acorn thing, not > > solely OPro. > > Have you tried editing the Messages file? Which "Messages file"? The OPro one or the Acorn one- I had a quick look in the Apps/Resources and couldn't find it; mind you even if I could, I would not know how to make the computer read from this edited file, seeing as it is stored in ROM. Ho hum. The best laid plans.... > > -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "Peu s'en fallut que je ne mourusse d'ennui dans mon village" A beautiful French sentence... From paul@tyto.demon.co.uk Tue May 26 22:27:48 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67014 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:27:47 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896176568:20:24507:0; Tue, 26 May 98 09:56:08 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2108105; 26 May 98 9:56 GMT Received: from tyto.demon.co.uk ([194.222.110.18]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1018238; 26 May 98 9:55 GMT Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:16:56 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Hutton Subject: Re: Missing Typing? To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980523.022950.36@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] On Sat 23 May, Dave Richardson wrote: > On Fri 22 May, Paul Hutton wrote: > > Dear all > > > > we have recently installed OPro 2.46 onto our A4000s at school. > > Sometimes though, when OPro is loaded, when the classes try to type, there > > is no response; the caret flashes in the top left hand corner, but nothing > > can be typed, regardless of fonts. > > > > The !Fonts folder is in the root directory. The only solution we have > > found is to switch off and restart. Any ideas or pointers? > > > > > > -- > > Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm > > "Peu s'en fallut que je ne mourusse d'ennui dans mon village" > > A beautiful French sentence... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@pilling.demon.co.uk > > with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l > > To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l > > > > > Dear Paul, > Do you have enough memory? > Most machines seem to need 4Mb to work correctly. > Regards > Dave Richardson Dear Dave Yes; all machines are 4mb. This can happen on bootup; the only things being autobooted being Printers. > > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@pilling.demon.co.uk > with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l > To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l > > > -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "Peu s'en fallut que je ne mourusse d'ennui dans mon village" A beautiful French sentence... From paul@tyto.demon.co.uk Tue May 26 22:27:57 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67017 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:27:56 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896179592:12:03368:7; Tue, 26 May 98 10:46:32 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2123969; 26 May 98 10:46 GMT Received: from tyto.demon.co.uk ([194.222.110.18]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1027430; 26 May 98 10:46 GMT Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:45:25 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Hutton Subject: Error: Messages not found To: Ovation Pro Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Dear all Why don't we have a troubleshooting page fo Opro? I am about to ask for help with a matter that I know has been flagged up before- but I can't remember the solution! I have re-installed a fresh version of 2.46 (in readiness to upgrade to 2.49 later on), and it forms part of my boot up sequence, but now I get an error message Messages file not found. I sh/dc on Opro and dc on !Ovnresdir and !Words which solves the problem, but on re-booting up it pops again. Why is this suddenly happening? How do I make the change permament? I have even tried putting two run lines into my boot file, one for each offending folder, to no avail. Ta for the help- I will continue to muddle around in the meantime. -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "Peu s'en fallut que je ne mourusse d'ennui dans mon village" A beautiful French sentence... From chris.chorley@digi.co.uk Tue May 26 22:27:58 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67018 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:27:58 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896183782:20:02070:1; Tue, 26 May 98 11:56:22 GMT Received: from ftp.digi.co.uk ([194.200.140.119]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2002022; 26 May 98 11:56 GMT Received: from del.digi.co.uk (del.digi.co.uk [194.200.140.6]) by arthur.digi.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09472 for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 12:57:19 +0100 Received: from DEL/SpoolDir by del.digi.co.uk (Mercury 1.40); 26 May 98 11:54:41 +0 Received: from SpoolDir by DEL (Mercury 1.40); 26 May 98 11:54:27 +0 Received: from 008.digi.co.uk (194.200.140.100) by del.digi.co.uk (Mercury 1.40); 26 May 98 11:54:22 +0 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980526120014.0073714c@194.200.140.6> X-Sender: chrisc@194.200.140.6 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:00:14 +0100 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk From: Chris Chorley Subject: Chapters & Page Numbering In OP 2.48: 1. when a chapter is added after the current chapter, why doesn't it default to starting the page numbering of the new chapter where the last chapter left off ? ie, chapter 1 has pages 1 to 10, new chapter defaulting to starting on page 11 makes sense. 2. when the first chapter (above) is edited, creating another page in the chapter, so chapter 1 has pages 1 to 11, chapter 2 still starts on page 11. Two page 11's. Even if this is normally required by someone, could there be an option to re-number the pages of succeeding chapters when pages are added to an earlier chapter ? Chris. From empo@argonet.co.uk Tue May 26 22:28:03 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67019 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 22:28:02 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896187638:20:09566:2; Tue, 26 May 98 13:00:38 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2009278; 26 May 98 13:00 GMT Received: from (193.130.251.77) [193.130.251.77] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yeJKx-0000CC-00; Tue, 26 May 1998 14:00:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Empson To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 19:55:55 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <484bed6943empo@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.07i for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: OP mailing In-Reply-To: <19980524.030333.35@pilling.demon.co.uk> Return-Receipt-To: empo@argonet.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain On 24 May, Adrian Warrick wrote: > Hi all > Just wondered if we might use a prefix in the subject so that all OP > related mail is immediately identifiable? > Maybe the initials OP as in this subject heading? > All the best > Adrian I agree this would help me mark -- _____ | ____|_ __ ___ _ __ ___ | _| | '_ ` _ \| '_ \ / _ \ | |___| | | | | | |_) | (_) | |_____|_| |_| |_| .__/ \___/ |_| empo At the Centre of the Universe .... C program run, C program crash, C programmer cry. From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Tue May 26 23:12:35 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67049 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 26 May 98 23:12:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896220620:20:09344:2; Tue, 26 May 98 22:10:20 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2127148; 26 May 98 22:10 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yeRvF-0003WV-00; Tue, 26 May 1998 23:10:17 +0100 Date: Tue, 26 May 98 23:01:00 GMT Message-Id: <67047@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: "Bernard G. Hill" >Many thanks to Kevin Simpson for the simple work around for selective leadering. Perhaps he could tell us all, or put the example on the alternative OPro web site? >This superimposition of two syles does give the opportunity to change the type >size for the leadering string, which is very useful sometimes especially when >Are these features which could be incorporated if? when? leaders are attached >to the tab and not to the ruler as a whole? Thats a step forward on whats been suggested so far... From:( Dr A G Gray) >Can anyone come up with a method of putting this in a document at the cursor >position either from a key short-cut, or perhaps a button on the button-bar, >rather than having to drag it from its directory? Only hairy ideas spring to mind. From: D.A.Symes >I've just spent half an hour trying to get a macro to work... to bring up >the Applets window at the click of a button, without success... well I've >been successful at getting error messages. :-) A macro with a body like; {osclis("filer_opendir ")} >And as a slight aside, searching through AutoRun !Menus... shows no entry >in the menu structure for Applets. >So how does it get on the bottom of the Ov Pro main menu? By default there is no applets menu. Applets all call a function when they start up; script_menu_initialise(); Which creates the applet menu if it doesn't already exist. From: Alan Muscat >OPro say that it was not installed on that drive >so it won't play, I would have to run the install >program and drog the App to it. I *think* you just install a new copy on the new disc from your original floppies. Just like starting from scratch and ignore the stuff above. But I'm no expert on the copy protection. So if that does not work, talk to the Beebugs. From: Andy Piper >Has anyone else found that in 2.49 the Help messages for the Info >window appear when the pointer is over the New Document window, and Doesn't seem to happen with my copy. Is it another example of the wrong resource problems? From: Frank Watkinson >I created three new buttons from the Macros dbox, called stylepal, >checked the macro definition: found correct, as above. I tried again >and found that the fatal error was generated immediately on pressing >Select with the pointer over the button. This was totally >reproducible; that is, I gave up after six tries. So please can I have a copy of the Macros file... Total reproducibility == total certainty of a bug fix 8-) From: Chris Chorley >1. when a chapter is added after the current chapter, why doesn't it default >to starting the page numbering of the new chapter where the last chapter >left off ? ie, chapter 1 has pages 1 to 10, new chapter defaulting to >starting on page 11 makes sense. >2. when the first chapter (above) is edited, creating another page in the >chapter, so chapter 1 has pages 1 to 11, chapter 2 still starts on page 11. >Two page 11's. Even if this is normally required by someone, could there be >an option to re-number the pages of succeeding chapters when pages are added >to an earlier chapter ? I don't know if the above comments are because you're not aware of a feature of OPro. When you insert a new chapter the start number is blank - that means "follow on from previous chapter". If you type in 11 or any other number then the chapter will always start from 11. So both the possible requirements are supported. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From secpc@gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au Wed May 27 13:45:38 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67172 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 13:45:36 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896248639:10:13557:0; Wed, 27 May 98 05:57:19 GMT Received: from gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au ([129.96.250.33]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1013263; 27 May 98 5:57 GMT Received: from 009975 (sturt34.sturt.flinders.edu.au [129.96.238.34]) by gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SM Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980527152815.0092e2f0@gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au> X-Sender: secpc@gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:28:15 +0900 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk From: Carl Cepurneek Subject: Re: OP mailing In-Reply-To: <19980527.030531.68@pilling.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:05 27/05/98 +0100, John Evans wrote: .... >However, whilst on the point of decent subject texts this is a very minor >gripe against David Pilling but I would definitely prefer all his >helpful advice be replied using the original message Subject. >There is a lot of mail to go through ( which is a good thing) however, there >are a lot of problems being addressed that I am not interested in (eg Postscript and ... I have no problems with David's multi-part replies clearly titled 'Various'. My personal gripe, for the second time, is that people who reply to his message don't change the subject line to match their actual topic. None in this batch, but often there are several 'Various' items that in fact are about one point only and might be skipped if properly identified. Ah, better, cpc From ian@lowri.demon.co.uk Wed May 27 13:45:51 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67176 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 13:45:50 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896254839:20:18363:7; Wed, 27 May 98 07:40:39 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2124979; 27 May 98 7:40 GMT Received: from lowri.demon.co.uk ([194.222.175.160]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1012310; 27 May 98 7:39 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ian Lowry To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 07:37:01 +0100 Message-ID: <484cabf160ian@lowri.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Adding an embedded graphic at the cursor In-Reply-To: <19980527.030445.54@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 27 May, Dr A G Gray wrote: > I frequently use a Draw file of my signature when sending FAXes from OP. > Can anyone come up with a method of putting this in a document at the > cursor position either from a key short-cut, or perhaps a button on the > button-bar, rather than having to drag it from its directory? I keep my signature at the bottom of the Fax blank in my Stationery folder. Then all I have to do is drag it to the appropriate position. Ian -- Cardiff - Soon to be home to the Welsh Assembly Iechyd da i bob Cymro.......... From dominik.wagner@t-online.de Wed May 27 13:45:54 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67177 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 13:45:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896257139:20:05823:0; Wed, 27 May 98 08:18:59 GMT Received: from mailout00.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.148]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2005778; 27 May 98 8:18 GMT Received: from fwd12.btx.dtag.de (fwd12.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.172]) by mailout00.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 0yebPC-0005Lk-00; Wed, 27 May 1998 10:17:50 +0200 Received: from 000488668221080712250#0002.t-online.de (080712250-0002(btxid)@[193.158.170.158]) by fwd12.btx.dtag.de with smtp id ; Wed, 27 May 1998 10:17:32 +0200 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:00:15 +0200 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Bullet List Hack Message-ID: <1190b34c48%Dominik@000488668221080712250#0002.t-online.de> In-Reply-To: <19980527.030433.47@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60j X-Sender: 080712250-0002@t-online.de From:(Dominik Wagner) In message <19980527.030433.47@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > Hello Dominik >=20 > I have just downloaded you bullet app, however it seems to appear on my= > machine as gibberish. >=20 > How do I get it to work? >=20 > In your web page you say it is in pack Dir format yet my pack dir says = it > does not recognise it. I tried it out myself and it worked prefectly with ANT/Fresco. I have to mention, that despite my text on my page says that the file is = 43kb, it is only 4kb, but that's perfektly ok... Bye, P.S.: I sent you a copy by mail... -- mailto:Dominik.Wagner@t-online.de ------------------- Acorn Nutzer, DTV-T=E4nzer, C-Programmierer, Gymnasiast, Brettspiele, Sportwart TC Inn-Casino (http://www.tanzen.wasserburg.de) e.V. Homepage unter: http://www.arcsite.de/hp/dragon/ - Always look on the Arcsite of your life - http://www.arcsite.de/ From nick.kaijaks@warwick.ac.uk Wed May 27 13:46:06 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67181 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 13:46:05 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896266470:20:28304:8; Wed, 27 May 98 10:54:30 GMT Received: from pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk ([137.205.192.19]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2105962; 27 May 98 10:54 GMT Received: from warwick.ac.uk (caiciss [137.205.160.38]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11066; Wed, 27 May 1998 11:54:21 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <356BF0DC.7E3713C3@warwick.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 11:54:20 +0100 From: Nick Kaijaks X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: PS & Fiery References: <19980523.022942.88@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim King wrote: > Am I the only one able to screw up bitmaps for a Fiery, or are there others > just as good? Yeah, I can screw up bitmaps for a ScanGraphics too ;-( Unfortunately, it's massively inconsistent about when it fails. Interestingly I found it still failed when laying-up in ArtWorks, so it's not as specific to Ovation Pro as it might seem. It made no difference whether I used JPEGs or Sprites, PS level 1 and 2. The only thing that made a difference was using an A4 instead of a custom size. Then it RIPped, but lost a couple of inches off two edges of the page... Suggests a PS clipping problem perhaps? The best bit was that it would run perfectly on GhostScript, so I couldn't even tell it was a problem until I take it to my bureau to play out to film. At least I've only had the problem three times... Cheers, Nick -- nick kaijaks ~ pinxit design ~ for internet and print ~ http://come.to/pinxit mailto:Nick.Kaijaks@warwick.ac.uk orange:0966 188872 Disclaimer: caveat internettor From norman@nthom.demon.co.uk Wed May 27 14:44:48 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67192 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 14:44:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896276600:20:13117:3; Wed, 27 May 98 13:43:20 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2111599; 27 May 98 13:43 GMT Received: from nthom.demon.co.uk ([158.152.185.75]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2019689; 27 May 98 13:42 GMT Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 14:14:15 +0100 From: Norman Thomas To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Adding an embedded graphic at the cursor Message-ID: <484CD04F3F%Norman@nthom.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <19980527.030445.54@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: Home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60j In message <19980527.030445.54@pilling.demon.co.uk> AGG wrote: > I frequently use a Draw file of my signature when sending FAXes from OP. and then asked whether that could easily be put in at the cursor position. I can see that his suggestions would make life easier than my current solution does, but just in case it is helpful, what I do is to have two skeleton faxes as templates, one with an informal and the other with a formal signature (scanned and in !Paint in my case). The signatures are embedded (see Manual Page 125) at the points just below where I begin typing an individual message. Especially if you wish to save to a different directory, the tedious bit is in the saving: F3 as usual and Control U knocks out the template file name/path, I then enter the new file name and drag it to the appropriate directory. Forget to do that and simply save the completed fax under its template name and you have to mess about to decontaminate the skeleton. I use the same system with letter headings, but then the fancy bits are in the heading and not for the signature. -- Norman Norman Thomas From r.w.darlington@acoustics.salford.ac.uk Wed May 27 14:44:52 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67193 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 14:44:50 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896273219:10:12623:0; Wed, 27 May 98 12:46:59 GMT Received: from amalthea.salford.ac.uk ([146.87.255.61]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1126167; 27 May 98 12:46 GMT Received: (qmail 25184 invoked by alias); 27 May 1998 12:46:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19980527124658.25183.qmail@amalthea.salford.ac.uk> Received: (qmail 25178 invoked from network); 27 May 1998 12:46:58 -0000 Received: from brindley-056.salford.ac.uk (146.87.16.56) by amalthea.salford.ac.uk with SMTP; 27 May 1998 12:46:58 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Roger Darlington" Organization: University of Salford To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:46:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) (Fwd) (Fwd) bullet fix download problem Return-receipt-to: "Roger Darlington" Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42) ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Self To: Dominik.Wagner@t-online.de ------------------- Subject: (Fwd) (Fwd) bullet fix download problem Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:38:29 +0100 ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Self To: Dominic.Wagner@t-online.de Subject: (Fwd) bullet fix download problem Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 11:29:47 +0100 ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Self To: Dominic.Wagner@t-online.de Subject: bullet fix download problem Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 08:31:58 +0100 Dear Dominic, Probably because I am using a poxy PC plod machine to download with using Netscape Gold and not an Acorn Archimedes or RiscPC, I find that in trying to download bulletfix or stop or sirtetos I either get a screen full of garbage or a file which !PackDir cannot un-pack because of some error or other (three different errors for the three different programs). Could you please tell me if there is another way I can download these programs. Could you possibly e-mail them to me as attachments? Many thanks Yours sincerely Roger R.W.DARLINGTON@acoustics.salford.ac.uk A 276MHz StrongARM RiscPC in 1200 by 1600 graphics at home for real work An 30MHz 80486 PC plod in 640 x 512 graphics at work for .... a long wait. Work Tel - (0161) 295 3399 Remember - a proton is for life, not just for Christmas From ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk Wed May 27 15:32:18 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67198 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 15:32:17 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896277601:10:26207:2; Wed, 27 May 98 14:00:01 GMT Received: from post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.40]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1109406; 27 May 98 13:59 GMT Received: from (gvine.demon.co.uk) [158.152.98.218] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yegkA-00065p-00; Wed, 27 May 1998 13:59:50 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gvine.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Wed, 27 May 1998 11:24:02 GMT Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:20:49 +0100 From: Alan Muscat To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Damned PS Again! Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980527.030503.84@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: Grapevine Digital Arts X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60f In message <19980527.030503.84@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > > If You are using Printers below 1.53 You should upgrade. There once > >was an error in the Acorn PS-rendering routines for deep sprites. It > >could be fixed by hand in one of the prolog-files but I forgot about > >that when Acorn fixed it > >themselves. > > No. I am using Printers v 1.54, so I presume it is the Argo Zip driver not > allowing the printer to work. The Argo Zip driver is responsible for everything, including Global Warming! Seriously, just do not have the zip driver loaded when printing, but have the drive switched on. The driver software causes no end of trouble. -- Alan Muscat Choose Acorn - 24 users can't all be wrong. *************** Grapevine Digital Arts *********************** ************** http://www.gvine.demon.co.uk ********************* From ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk Wed May 27 15:32:29 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67202 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 15:32:28 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896277613:20:26701:0; Wed, 27 May 98 14:00:13 GMT Received: from post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.40]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2128044; 27 May 98 14:00 GMT Received: from (gvine.demon.co.uk) [158.152.98.218] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yegkR-000673-00; Wed, 27 May 1998 14:00:08 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gvine.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Wed, 27 May 1998 13:59:42 GMT Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:27:24 +0100 From: Alan Muscat To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Alt resources web site (was Re: Various) Message-ID: <1f87c64c48%ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <19980527.030552.61@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: Grapevine Digital Arts X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60f In message <19980527.030552.61@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > On 24 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > From: Alexander Thoukydides > > > >That URL points to a nearly 3MB X-File... > > > Hmm. Sounds like a tip on how to download the complete web site. > > Maybe I knocked off the last slash. i.e. should be; > > > http://www1.che.hw.ac.uk/~ovpro/ > > Yes - unfortunately that seems to be the way the Alphanet server deals > with a WebFS (aka x-files) directory. The OVPro resources pages are the > only part of the site that are contained in an x-file. I thought it would > be useful for the long filename capability, etc, the lack of which I found > rather restricting on the rest of the site. Although the OVPro part of the > site has been running for a couple of months I had not realised this > happens. If you go too far up the directory structure, and then omit the > final / from the url, then Alphanet does not recognise that the x-file > should be treated as a directory, and instead sends the whole d**n x-file. > > Therefore use the url as given above *including* the final / and you then > get the pages from within the x-file without realising it comes from such > a file. I have just gone over to raFS, which is an excellent and superior long filesnames filing sytem. -- Alan Muscat Choose Acorn - 24 users can't all be wrong. *************** Grapevine Digital Arts *********************** ************** http://www.gvine.demon.co.uk ********************* From renet@ihug.co.nz Wed May 27 15:32:34 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67204 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 15:32:33 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896278952:20:14647:1; Wed, 27 May 98 14:22:32 GMT Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2120472; 27 May 98 14:22 GMT Received: from renet.ihug.co.nz (p34-max3.ham.ihug.co.nz [202.49.253.162]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA19 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 03:18:30 +1300 (BST) From: Rene Turner Subject: Re: Moving Ovation To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980527.030524.59@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: Ren H Turner, Hamilton, New Zealand. Ph:+64 7 8435779 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp1.ihug.co.nz id BAA19286 On Wed 27 May, Alan Muscat wrote: > I recently installed a new hard disc amd copied > over all my stuff from the old HD. >=20 > OPro say that it was not installed on that drive > so it won't play, I would have to run the install > program and drog the App to it. >=20 > This I did using program disc 1 but I get a message telling me to use > a different installer. Help. >=20 >=20 > --=20 >=20 > Alan Muscat Oh yes Alan I had exactly the same problem and confused it as you seem t= o have.... I presume you used the Update at some time (Its sprite looked like a flower) Open this till you get the Install window on your screen, take the OP application that is on your computer HD, not the one on the floppy and drag it to the Install window.... Took me ages to find the solution.... but when it worked it just said Ok.... =20 --=20 May G-d Bless you and Keep you... Ren=E9 Turner ..Survivor 82... Mailto:renet@ihug.co.nz=20 H.I.S. NZ http://www.head-injury.org.nz =20 It is when I struggle to be brief that I become obscure. From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed May 27 18:05:48 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67209 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 18:05:47 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896279607:10:08804:1; Wed, 27 May 98 14:33:27 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1008486; 27 May 98 14:33 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yehGB-00018A-00; Wed, 27 May 1998 15:32:55 +0100 Date: Wed, 27 May 98 14:47:08 GMT Message-Id: <67194@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: "Roger Darlington" >I find that in trying to download bulletfix or stop or sirtetos I >either get a screen full of garbage or a file which !PackDir cannot >un-pack because of some error or other (three different errors for >the three different programs). Always worth knowing about the trick of holding down shift while clicking on the link to force a binary download. From:(Dominik Wagner) >How can I make a script that automatically merges and prints a document? >(I want to make a automatic report out of squirrel) Use the 'impulse' protocol... I guess it is shortcoming that the script language does not let you drive OPro in the same way as impulse. From: D.A.Symes >What I wanted at the click of a button bar button is the selection window >that opens when one does an Ovation Pro, Menu down to - Applets --> Well if you will call menus "windows"... Try this macro body; {open_menu(script_menu(1))} From: In the hope someone can shed some light on it, I've copied below my comments about Tim Kings problems producing Post Script files. He has now sent me an OPro document with a JPEG and a use of the London font in it, and the PS file his system has produced. His PS file are a lot bigger than the ones I produce and also give error messages. Now read on... Printing to PS level 1, I get a 167K file which renders OK. Printing to PS level 2, I get a 28K file which renders OK. This is just a simple load the document, click on Print job. Not using seps or anything like that. I'm using printers 1.54 on a SA RPC. However compare and contrast this bit. From yours; 34618 0 0 34618 63021 435332 SDM 180 90 180 90 SS 175 JM 444 175 J32 FCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFF From mine; 34618 0 0 34618 63021 435332 SDM 180 90 180 90 SS 175 JM 444 175 J32 s4IA0!"_al8O`[\!;#6tJ?#m^kH'FbHY$Odmc'+Yct)BU"@)B9_>,VCGe +tOrY*%3`p/2/e81c-:%3B]>W4>&EH1B6)/6NIK"#n.1M(_$ok1*IV\1,:U?1,:U?1,:U?1,:U?1,:U? Mine has the JPEG data in typical Base 85 coding, aka as "atob", anyway a method of coding binary data as text. Yours though seems to have the data coded as Hex. Both are possible in PS. But why would they be different? Especially since both files seem to have the same definition of the JM function which does include the 85 decoder. There is another interesting difference. The London font is output to the file. But mine does it in a different way to yours. You tell me, what part of the PS system will control that? I could imagine that the output of the London font sets things up for the JPEG to go wrong. And that Impression may not output the font. But this would still imply that your PS setup is different to mine. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From crusius@wxs.nl Wed May 27 18:05:52 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67211 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 18:05:51 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896284216:10:17986:0; Wed, 27 May 98 15:50:16 GMT Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl ([195.121.6.60]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1127684; 27 May 98 15:50 GMT Received: from crusius.wxs.nl ([195.121.78.153]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id AAA4387 for ; Wed, 27 May 1998 17:50:12 +0200 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:48:58 +0100 (GMT) From: "W,H, Stenfert Kroese" Subject: GS 4.03 To: Ovation Pro mail list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: W.H. Stenfert Kroese, (crusius@wxs.nl). X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Yes, I should like to download your 3 meg file. I'd be really grateful. Kroese. -- => PLEASE NOTE CHANGE OF E-MAIL ADDRESS: crusius@wxs.nl <= W.H. Stenfert Kroese, Dr. Schaepmanlaan 11,3972 ET Driebergen. From dominik.wagner@t-online.de Wed May 27 18:06:01 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67215 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 18:05:59 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896288609:10:28333:0; Wed, 27 May 98 17:03:29 GMT Received: from mailout05.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.153]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1103962; 27 May 98 17:03 GMT Received: from fwd04.btx.dtag.de (fwd04.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.164]) by mailout05.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 0yejZv-00024T-00; Wed, 27 May 1998 19:01:27 +0200 Received: from 000488668221080712250#0002.t-online.de (080712250-0002(btxid)@[193.158.170.40]) by fwd04.btx.dtag.de with smtp id ; Wed, 27 May 1998 19:01:14 +0200 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:00:07 +0200 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Various Message-ID: <3dfde44c48%Dominik@000488668221080712250#0002.t-online.de> In-Reply-To: <19980527.030649.35@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60j X-Sender: 080712250-0002@t-online.de From:(Dominik Wagner) A Question: How can I make a script that automatically merges and prints a document? (I want to make a automatic report aut of squirrel) Bye, Dominik -- mailto:Dominik.Wagner@t-online.de ------------------- Acorn Nutzer, DTV-T=E4nzer, C-Programmierer, Gymnasiast, Brettspiele, Sportwart TC Inn-Casino (http://www.tanzen.wasserburg.de) e.V. Homepage unter: http://www.arcsite.de/hp/dragon/ - Always look on the Arcsite of your life - http://www.arcsite.de/ From dominik.wagner@t-online.de Wed May 27 18:06:02 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67216 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 18:06:01 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896285345:20:06509:11; Wed, 27 May 98 16:09:05 GMT Received: from mailout05.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.153]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2006257; 27 May 98 16:08 GMT Received: from fwd09.btx.dtag.de (fwd09.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.169]) by mailout05.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 0yeihv-0002da-00; Wed, 27 May 1998 18:05:39 +0200 Received: from 000488668221080712250#0002.t-online.de (080712250-0002(btxid)@[193.159.111.20]) by fwd09.btx.dtag.de with smtp id ; Wed, 27 May 1998 18:05:20 +0200 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 11:49:07 +0200 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Hourglass would be nice... Message-ID: <8087bd4c48%Dominik@000488668221080712250#0002.t-online.de> In-Reply-To: <19980527.030649.35@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60j X-Sender: 080712250-0002@t-online.de From:(Dominik Wagner) Showing an Hourglass with percentage would be very helpful while loading big DDL-Files. Since it can take quite a long time, and nobody knows if OvationPro works or if there was a crash. Bye, Dominik -- mailto:Dominik.Wagner@t-online.de ------------------- Acorn Nutzer, DTV-T=E4nzer, C-Programmierer, Gymnasiast, Brettspiele, Sportwart TC Inn-Casino (http://www.tanzen.wasserburg.de) e.V. Homepage unter: http://www.arcsite.de/hp/dragon/ 97 Windows a just a small part of RiscOS... From awarrick@argonet.co.uk Wed May 27 22:18:16 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67236 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 22:18:15 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896301284:10:18143:0; Wed, 27 May 98 20:34:44 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1018078; 27 May 98 20:34 GMT Received: from (193.130.250.202) [193.130.250.202] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yemuE-0004r4-00; Wed, 27 May 1998 21:34:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Adrian Warrick To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:30:10 +0100 Message-ID: <484cf8384eawarrick@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: OP mailing In-Reply-To: <19980527.030426.46@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 27 May, D.A.Symes wrote: > > Hi all > > Just wondered if we might use a prefix in the subject so that all OP > > related mail is immediately identifiable? > > Maybe the initials OP as in this subject heading? > > All the best > > Adrian > Pardon...! > All my OvPro related mail is immediately identifiable, as is my Pluto > mail, and others I won't mention. I didn't conceive how many people would think this a 'monumentally silly' idea, however I have only just purchased !Pluto which has this capability. I notice that only non-Argo subscribers (or Dave Symes using !Pluto) have commented on haw daft my idea is. I wonder how many people who are using the !Voyager internet suite in its original form (but version 1.18) agree with my previous e-mail? Adrian -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ awarrick@argonet.co.uk From prpi@tasc.demon.co.uk Wed May 27 22:18:19 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67237 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 22:18:17 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896302064:10:07945:0; Wed, 27 May 98 20:47:44 GMT Received: from post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.40]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007905; 27 May 98 20:47 GMT Received: from (tasc.demon.co.uk) [158.152.124.188] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yen6r-0001ZU-00; Wed, 27 May 1998 20:47:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by tasc.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Wed, 27 May 1998 20:45:45 GMT Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:43:03 +0100 From: Philip Ingram To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Music programmes & synched paras (was OP and Typography) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980520.020943.15@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: Not much X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60g In message <19980520.020943.15@pilling.demon.co.uk> s.w.ellacott@brighton.ac.uk (Steve Ellacott) wrote: > On Sat 16 May, "Bernard G. Hill" wrote: > > related to the tab but is set to be the same for all tabs. Just how do > > you set up a concert programme with decimal tabbed numbered items > > followed by a tabbed description followed by a tabbed leadered third > > item? Those blessed leadering strings get in everywhere. > > Well I do programmes using multiple columns. This also allows different > bits to be left or right justified. But of course I really need to be able > to synchonise paragraphs in difernt stories, as recently discussed here. > Tablemate works very well for producing the synchronised paragraphs needed in concert programmes (use Lines->all->none to hide the normal framing). Granted my version (4.05a) doesn't do leadering but in my experience George Buchanan listens sympathetically to requests for enhancements. Tablemate brings the added advantage that you can also generate an HTML table from the programme and publish it to a wider audience with very little effort. Regards, Philip -- Philip Ingram prpi@tasc.demon.co.uk From df.symes@argonet.co.uk Wed May 27 22:18:21 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67238 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 27 May 98 22:18:20 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896302667:10:23292:0; Wed, 27 May 98 20:57:47 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1116264; 27 May 98 20:57 GMT Received: from (193.130.250.188) [193.130.250.188] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yenGZ-0005Kz-00; Wed, 27 May 1998 21:57:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: D.A.Symes To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:46:49 +0100 Message-ID: <484cf9be50df.symes@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Ov Pro Applet window Content-Type: text/plain On 27 May, David Pilling wrote: > >From: D.A.Symes > >I've just spent half an hour trying to get a macro to work... to bring > >up the Applets window at the click of a button, without success... well > >I've been successful at getting error messages. :-) > A macro with a body like; > {osclis("filer_opendir ")} Sorry David, perhaps a misunderstanding of intent... but this doesn't work in the way I require. It presents the Applets directory from inside Ovation Pro, a filer window in other words. What I wanted at the click of a button bar button is the selection window that opens when one does an Ovation Pro, Menu down to - Applets --> Cheers Dave S -- _________________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... df.symes@argonet.co.uk Phone/Fax (01202) 432 489 ...Mem...Clan Acorn...Mem...BSFA and others... http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/df.symes Wot... No tag line! ....^I^.... From cdowns@argonet.co.uk Thu May 28 13:53:09 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67329 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 13:53:07 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896341207:10:15988:0; Thu, 28 May 98 07:40:07 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1113899; 28 May 98 7:40 GMT Received: from (193.130.250.205) [193.130.250.205] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yexIA-0004KH-00; Thu, 28 May 1998 08:40:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Cliff Downs) To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 28 May 98 (08:20:22 +0100) X-Organization: Argonet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: ArgoNet 'Voyager' Email Program 1.08 : ad Subject: Re: OP mailing Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: On Thu 28 May 98 (02:19:55 +0100), awarrick@argonet.co.uk wrote: > On 27 May, D.A.Symes wrote: > > > Hi all > > > > Just wondered if we might use a prefix in the subject so that all > OP > > > related mail is immediately identifiable? > > > > Maybe the initials OP as in this subject heading? > > > > All the best [snip] > > I didn't conceive how many people would think this a 'monumentally > silly' idea, however I have only just purchased !Pluto which has this > capability. > > I notice that only non-Argo subscribers (or Dave Symes using !Pluto) > have commented on haw daft my idea is. I wonder how many people who are > using the !Voyager internet suite in its original form (but version > 1.18) agree with my previous e-mail? > > Adrian No, it's not a silly idea, monumental or otherwise, Alsytems do it on their list, for which I am thankful, their prefix is [power-chat]. I suggest this present subject could be: [Ovation-chat] Re:OP mailing list Regards, Cliff. -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ cdowns@argonet.co.uk From df.symes@argonet.co.uk Thu May 28 13:53:12 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67332 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 13:53:10 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896341997:20:20812:0; Thu, 28 May 98 07:53:17 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2020709; 28 May 98 7:53 GMT Received: from (193.130.246.82) [193.130.246.82] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yexUh-0004Re-00; Thu, 28 May 1998 08:53:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: D.A.Symes To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:51:16 +0100 Message-ID: <484d36934ddf.symes@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: OP mailing In-Reply-To: <19980528.021955.56@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 28 May, Adrian Warrick wrote: > On 27 May, D.A.Symes wrote: > > > Hi all > > > Just wondered if we might use a prefix in the subject so that all OP > > > related mail is immediately identifiable? > > > Maybe the initials OP as in this subject heading? > > > All the best > > > Adrian > > Pardon...! > > All my OvPro related mail is immediately identifiable, as is my Pluto > > mail, and others I won't mention. > I didn't conceive how many people would think this a 'monumentally > silly' idea, however I have only just purchased !Pluto which has this > capability. > I notice that only non-Argo subscribers (or Dave Symes using !Pluto) > have commented on haw daft my idea is. I wonder how many people who are > using the !Voyager internet suite in its original form (but version > 1.18) agree with my previous e-mail? > Adrian My apologies Adrian, A greater use of smilies is perhaps called for... :-) ;-) 'Twas not my intention to consider your idea silly... It was more of a twofold surprised reaction. One, being... it's such a long long time now since I've used Voyager Posty and Newsagent, I'd forgotten some of their failings. Two, being... there seems to be quite a lot of names on the OVPro maillist, that like myself are also on the Pluto maillist, and it's a subject that's been covered in the past. Sorreeee! Dave S -- _________________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... df.symes@argonet.co.uk Phone/Fax (01202) 432 489 ...Mem...Clan Acorn...Mem...BSFA and others... http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/df.symes Wot... No tag line! ....^I^.... From kevin@wcartsco.demon.co.uk Thu May 28 13:53:19 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67336 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 13:53:17 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896354956:10:18388:0; Thu, 28 May 98 11:29:16 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1018292; 28 May 98 11:29 GMT Received: from (wcartsco.demon.co.uk) [158.152.233.63] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yf0ru-0004zq-00; Thu, 28 May 1998 12:29:11 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wcartsco.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Thu, 28 May 1998 10:43:36 GMT Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:43:24 +0100 From: Kevin Simpson To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Tab leadering (was Various) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980527.030649.35@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: The Western Commercial Arts Co. X-Mailer: Messenger v1.02 for RISC OS X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59d In message <19980527.030649.35@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > From: "Bernard G. Hill" > > >Many thanks to Kevin Simpson for the simple work around for selective leadering. > > Perhaps he could tell us all, or put the example on the alternative OPro web site? > > >This superimposition of two syles does give the opportunity to change the type > >size for the leadering string, which is very useful sometimes especially when > >Are these features which could be incorporated if? when? leaders are attached > >to the tab and not to the ruler as a whole? > > Thats a step forward on whats been suggested so far... I did post instructions on how to do it to this group, that's where Mr Hill got the work around. A few people emailed and asked for the example document so I set up a quick web page with the example document in. I have been away for a few weeks and haven't caught up on my mail back log so I didn't know about an alternative OPro web site. If I had it would have saved me the trouble of setting up this little page! If whoever runs the alternative page wants to, he should feel free to take it from my page and put it on his. The example document can be had from... http://www.wcartsco.demon.co.uk/op/op.html -- Kevin Simpson BA(Hons) The Western Commercial Arts Co. http://www.wcartsco.demon.co.uk graphic design - typeface design - typography - illustration - printing From kevin@wcartsco.demon.co.uk Thu May 28 13:53:23 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67338 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 13:53:21 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896354967:10:18694:0; Thu, 28 May 98 11:29:27 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1018545; 28 May 98 11:29 GMT Received: from (wcartsco.demon.co.uk) [158.152.233.63] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yf0ry-00050N-00; Thu, 28 May 1998 12:29:15 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wcartsco.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Thu, 28 May 1998 10:56:34 GMT Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:53:42 +0100 From: Kevin Simpson To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Helpful macros...Button Bar bug? Message-ID: <3f47474d48%kevin@wcartsco.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <19980527.030606.85@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: The Western Commercial Arts Co. X-Mailer: Messenger v1.02 for RISC OS X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59d In message <19980527.030606.85@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > Then I decided that for my way of working I would place the three > buttons close to the left end of the button bar. I > CTRL-Select-dragged each in turn to its new position. All was well > until I tried to drag the third button, when I got the message!: > > "OvationPro has suffered an internal error type=5" > > Naturally this was fatal and OPro exited on clicking on . I > checked the macro definition: found correct, as above. I tried again > and found that the fatal error was generated immediately on pressing > Select with the pointer over the button. This was totally > reproducible; that is, I gave up after six tries. I have come across this type=5 error many many times since v2.49. It usually manifests itself when doing something quite innocuous and that I have done many times before. Its also usually reproducible but I have found that completely resetting the machine and trying the exact same operation that caused the error previously dosen't then produce the error any more. I might be wrong but this suggests to me that the problem is with a module that stays resident until the computer is reset. Kevin -- Kevin Simpson BA(Hons) The Western Commercial Arts Co. http://www.wcartsco.demon.co.uk graphic design - typeface design - typography - illustration - printing From ljg@star.le.ac.uk Thu May 28 13:53:31 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67341 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 13:53:29 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896353274:20:21602:0; Thu, 28 May 98 11:01:14 GMT Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2021452; 28 May 98 11:01 GMT Received: from ltsun0.star.le.ac.uk ([143.210.36.50] helo=ltsun0.le.ac.uk) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.90 #2) for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 0yf0SJ-0007Ew-00; Thu, 28 May 1998 12:02:43 +0100 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:00:37 +0100 (BST) From: Liam Gretton Subject: Re: Alt resources web site (was Re: Various) To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980527.030552.61@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: CCD Group, X-Ray Astronomy Dept, Leicester University X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] On Wed 27 May, Chris Johnson wrote: > Yes - unfortunately that seems to be the way the Alphanet server deals > with a WebFS (aka x-files) directory. The OVPro resources pages are the > only part of the site that are contained in an x-file. I thought it would > be useful for the long filename capability, etc, the lack of which I found > rather restricting on the rest of the site. Although the OVPro part of the I use AlphaNet too, but abandoned X-Files in favour of Jason Tribbeck's LongFiles module which now seems to work faultlessly. X-Files gave me a nasty shock when one of its files got corrupted - I lost nearly all the contents of the X-File. -- Liam Gretton ljg@star.le.ac.uk Space Research Centre, liam@binliner.demon.co.uk Physics and Astronomy Dept, phone +44 (0) 116 223 1039 Leicester University, fax +44 (0) 116 252 2464 Leicester LE1 7RH, UK From jodrell@argonet.co.uk Thu May 28 13:53:33 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67342 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 13:53:32 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896353692:20:26959:0; Thu, 28 May 98 11:08:12 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2126094; 28 May 98 11:08 GMT Received: from (193.130.245.47) [193.130.245.47] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yf0XY-0006wi-00; Thu, 28 May 1998 12:08:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Peter Howard To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:08:00 +0100 Message-ID: <484d489685jodrell@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Printing error In-Reply-To: <19980524.030347.72@pilling.demon.co.uk> Return-Receipt-To: jodrell@argonet.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain When I click on the Print button of an OvPro document, the 'All pages' option is shown as selected, but the 'From' slot contains 1PR15 instead of 1. Attempting to proceed without changing this gives the error message 'Bad Page number'. Manually setting it to 1 and saving the document as Default makes no difference - the anomaly recurs the next time I call up OvPro. What must I do to remedy this fault, please? Peter H. From kevin@wcartsco.demon.co.uk Thu May 28 13:53:35 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67343 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 13:53:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896354989:20:12692:13; Thu, 28 May 98 11:29:49 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2114958; 28 May 98 11:29 GMT Received: from wcartsco.demon.co.uk ([158.152.233.63]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1019189; 28 May 98 11:29 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wcartsco.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Thu, 28 May 1998 11:22:12 GMT Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:11:28 +0100 From: Kevin Simpson To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: PS & Fiery Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980527.030545.69@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: The Western Commercial Arts Co. X-Mailer: Messenger v1.02 for RISC OS X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59d In message <19980523.022942.88@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > Am I the only one able to screw up bitmaps for a Fiery, or are there others > just as good? I may have missed some of this thread so forgive me if I have gone astray. I often (well, twice since Xmas) send files to a bureau for output to a large format ink jet printer. I don't know exactly how they do it but some of their equipment is marked Fiery (is it the RIP?). I have no problems so perhaps there are a few different Fierys. I use Printers 1.54 with the "PostScript Level 2" driver and the colour button ticked in the printer config window. They simply download my PS Text file to their RIP and out it comes. I never use JPEGs though, because the compression method used destroys the picture quality. Also, I don't trust JPEGs because there seems to be loads of different JPEG standards, some will load into some packages and not others and vice versa. Most Mac programs seem to save their own version of a JPEG file. I'm quite sure some hardware can't handle some JPEGs Kevin -- Kevin Simpson BA(Hons) The Western Commercial Arts Co. http://www.wcartsco.demon.co.uk graphic design - typeface design - typography - illustration - printing From julian@southern.co.nz Thu May 28 13:53:37 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67344 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 13:53:36 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896356093:20:26615:9; Thu, 28 May 98 11:48:13 GMT Received: from cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2026341; 28 May 98 11:47 GMT Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (pppd025.netaccess.co.nz [202.27.186.25]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA15920 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 23:47:25 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Thu,28 May 1998.23:51:36 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:49:31 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: OP mailing Message-ID: <6f634c4d48%julian@illusio.milieu.org.nz> In-Reply-To: <19980528.021955.56@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980528.021955.56@pilling.demon.co.uk> awarrick@argonet.co.uk (Adrian Warrick) wrote: [snip - adding something to the title to ID mailing list articles] > I notice that only non-Argo subscribers (or Dave Symes using !Pluto) > have commented on haw daft my idea is. I wonder how many people who > are using the !Voyager internet suite in its original form (but > version 1.18) agree with my previous e-mail? It's an idea that pops up periodically on all sorts of mailing lists. It's usually jumped on by those who have mailers that can handle some form of filtering, and whined about by those who have mailers that can't (or who don't know how to make their mailer do it). Messenger/Newsbase does, and has done for a while, so I tend to be in the former group. -- I won't use words again | Faith | May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant |manages| and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said | - JMS | places where you must walk From dominik.wagner@t-online.de Thu May 28 15:05:06 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67357 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 15:05:05 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896363094:10:29318:0; Thu, 28 May 98 13:44:54 GMT Received: from mailout02.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.150]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1029101; 28 May 98 13:44 GMT Received: from fwd09.btx.dtag.de (fwd09.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.169]) by mailout02.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 0yf2uf-0007I3-00; Thu, 28 May 1998 15:40:09 +0200 Received: from 000488668221080712250#0002.t-online.de (080712250-0002(btxid)@[193.158.169.220]) by fwd09.btx.dtag.de with smtp id ; Thu, 28 May 1998 15:40:01 +0200 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:10:22 +0200 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Various Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980528.021919.87@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60j X-Sender: 080712250-0002@t-online.de From:(Dominik Wagner) In message <19980528.021919.87@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > From:(Dominik Wagner) >=20 > >How can I make a script that automatically merges and prints a documen= t? > >(I want to make a automatic report out of squirrel) >=20 > Use the 'impulse' protocol... I guess it is shortcoming that the > script language does not let you drive OPro in the same way as impulse.= And my origninal Question: Is there a way to do mailmerge a file automatically and print it? (the CSV-File may come from any other application) Bye, Dominik -- mailto:Dominik.Wagner@t-online.de ------------------- Acorn Nutzer, DTV-T=E4nzer, (C-)Programmierer, Zivi, Brettspiele, Sportwart TC Inn-Casino (http://www.tanzen.wasserburg.de) e.V. Homepage unter: http://www.arcsite.de/hp/dragon/ *-*---*-------*---------------*---------------*-------*---*-* Choose Acorn, 24 Users can't all be wrong! From martinv@ucs.de Thu May 28 18:39:42 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67363 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 18:39:41 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896371726:10:10014:0; Thu, 28 May 98 16:08:46 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1009770; 28 May 98 16:08 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA24242 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 18:08:29 +0200 Message-Id: <199805281608.SAA24242@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 28 May 1998 09:27:13 GMT Subject: Re: PS & OP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >I'm about to reinstall OP & make sure everything like ColSupp is right up to >date, & will send David a sample PS - but from the list, can *no-one* >reproduce this? Sorry, I can't. We've successfully printed to Lexmark Optra C colour- laser, and files which ran o.k. on Display PS and Adobe Distillery. We did have JPEGs in and fonts and all, but no problems. Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From charlton@argonet.co.uk Thu May 28 18:39:46 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67365 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 18:39:45 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896371989:10:16259:1; Thu, 28 May 98 16:13:09 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1016087; 28 May 98 16:13 GMT Received: from (193.130.251.37) [193.130.251.37] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yf5IO-0003kR-00; Thu, 28 May 1998 17:12:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Bob Charlton To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:03:20 +0100 Message-ID: <484d63a04echarlton@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: OvationPro won't load Content-Type: text/plain I recently purchased a copy of Ovation v2.46 and upgraded it to v2.49 and started to design some standard pages. I'd saved them and test printed them, before switching off the computer and when I tried to reload Ovation there is an error report 'Template Tabstyle not found' is this template required to be saved separately or in version 2.49 can it become corrupted on shutdown? Where should it be? Whatever - I cannot now load Ovation it aborts after the opening tablet is displayed, and it looks like I'll have to start again from scratch. Perhaps I am missing something obvious. I was rearranging some of the buttons on the top button bar before closing could this have caused the problem? Salient help or knowledge of any similar circumstance would be appreciated. Thanks In Anticipation, -- Bob Charlton From martinv@ucs.de Thu May 28 18:39:58 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67369 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 18:39:57 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896371725:20:04956:5; Thu, 28 May 98 16:08:45 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2117737; 28 May 98 16:08 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA24251 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 18:08:32 +0200 Message-Id: <199805281608.SAA24251@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 28 May 1998 10:50:45 GMT Subject: Re: Various (Installer stalls) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >>OPro say that it was not installed on that drive >>so it won't play, I would have to run the install >>program and drog the App to it. > >I *think* you just install a new copy on the new disc from your original >floppies. Just like starting from scratch and ignore the stuff above. But >I'm no expert on the copy protection. So if that does not work, talk to the >Beebugs. If the Installer refuses to work either the disc has become moldy or: When !Install has been run once there will no groups be selected for installation and just clicking "Install" will give an error. Maybe it is enough to click over the menu-button bot.-left and choose to install "The main app. 1-3"... Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Thu May 28 18:40:00 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67370 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 18:39:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896371727:20:04998:2; Thu, 28 May 98 16:08:47 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2004893; 28 May 98 16:08 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA24236 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 18:08:26 +0200 Message-Id: <199805281608.SAA24236@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 28 May 1998 09:21:44 GMT Subject: Re: Applets window MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >Considering how important a part, Applets play in extending the facilities >of Ovation Pro, how come there is no button to bring up the Applets window? If You would like to open the directory viewer(s) for Applets it is hardly useful to do that while OP is running, so an Obey-file will do as well: IfThere .Applets then Filer_OpenDir .Applets IfThere .Applets2 then Filer_OpenDir .Applets2 this takes into account the not yet in use second Applet directory. On non-RiscPC's You will have to get yourself a copy of IfThere from Acorn and stick it in Your Library. Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Thu May 28 18:40:03 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67371 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 18:40:02 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896371727:20:05004:3; Thu, 28 May 98 16:08:47 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2117807; 28 May 98 16:08 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA24265 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 18:08:37 +0200 Message-Id: <199805281608.SAA24265@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 28 May 1998 11:58:18 GMT Subject: URL magic (was Re: Alt resources...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >happens. If you go too far up the directory structure, and then omit the >final / from the url, then Alphanet does not recognise that the x-file >should be treated as a directory, and instead sends the whole d**n x-file. Well, but an image-file besides being a directory is a file after all. Alphanet is not really wrong here. Omitting the trailing slash is a very bad habit. If You request to access a "directory" itself under, say UNIX by not giving a trailing slash You're being foolish and the server helps-out by inserting it, but the image-file is a file and why not send it? RFC 1738 tattoos anyone? ;-) Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Thu May 28 18:40:05 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67372 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 18:40:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896371729:20:05026:0; Thu, 28 May 98 16:08:49 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2004891; 28 May 98 16:08 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA24260 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 18:08:35 +0200 Message-Id: <199805281608.SAA24260@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 28 May 1998 11:45:08 GMT Subject: Re: Various (PS printing) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >34618 0 0 34618 63021 435332 SDM >180 90 180 90 SS >175 JM >444 175 J32 >FCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFE... > I have had a font muck-up the packedarray of the type-3 resulting in illegal PS, but changing the encoding of binaries within PS is completely new to me. Does the file finish correctly (PS trailer etc.)? What about media-defects, broken directories (I'm not joking)? Puzzled Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Thu May 28 18:40:07 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67373 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 18:40:06 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896371730:20:05043:0; Thu, 28 May 98 16:08:50 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2004878; 28 May 98 16:08 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA24245 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 18:08:30 +0200 Message-Id: <199805281608.SAA24245@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 28 May 1998 09:41:33 GMT Subject: Re: Changing discard? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >On Sat 23 May, Matthew Hambley wrote: >> > Does anyone knpw of a way of changing the word Discard (as in closing >> > Discard/save/Cancel) to "Bin"? I think this is a general Acorn thing, not >> > solely OPro. >> >> Have you tried editing the Messages file? > >Which "Messages file"? The OPro one or the Acorn one- I had a quick look in >the Apps/Resources and couldn't find it; mind you even if I could, I would >not know how to make the computer read from this edited file, seeing as it >is stored in ROM. Germans have the resources for DCS on disk, look for DCS$Path it's a Toolbox module. Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu May 28 20:02:52 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67400 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 20:02:50 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896379831:10:27773:0; Thu, 28 May 98 18:23:51 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1122789; 28 May 98 18:23 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yf7L5-0003G6-00; Thu, 28 May 1998 19:23:43 +0100 Date: Thu, 28 May 98 19:21:45 GMT Message-Id: <67388@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 NEWS ==== Ovation Pro 2.50 is available from the URL; http://www.beebug.com/software/ovpro/upgrade250/index.html Only those who don't mind messing about should try it for the time being. There are a fair number of bug fixes, and one new feature - sorting out the problems with page numbering between chapters. From: Kevin Simpson >I have come across this type=5 error many many times since v2.49. It usually >manifests itself when doing something quite innocuous and that I have done >many times before. Its also usually reproducible but I have found that >completely resetting the machine and trying the exact same operation that >caused the error previously dosen't then produce the error any more. >I might be wrong but this suggests to me that the problem is with a module >that stays resident until the computer is reset. Such bug reports don't mean much unless you really can reproduce things. Probably it is an OPro bug but not necessarily. From: Peter Howard >When I click on the Print button of an OvPro document, the 'All pages' >option is shown as selected, but the 'From' slot contains 1PR15 instead of FAQ. As ever this is because your copy of 2.49 is looking at the resources for 2.46 or whatever. The fix is either to openup !OvnPro and double click on !OvnResDir. Or to make sure that the new resources were installed when you upgraded. Seemingly some people don't have the 'F' (for force) flag set for copies (madness if you ask me). So new files don't replace old ones. From:(Dominik Wagner) >And my origninal Question: Is there a way to do mailmerge a file >automatically and print it? (the CSV-File may come from any other >application) There are no OPro script functions to control mail merging. To do it 'automatically' you would have to control OPro using the Impulse protocol. A modest Basic program could do this. I believe such a program (!Importer) is either supplied with Impression or with the CC Impulse module (this latter is available from HENSA etc.). From: Bob Charlton >I'd saved them and test printed them, before switching off the computer >and when I tried to reload Ovation there is an error report 'Template >Tabstyle not found' is this template required to be saved separately or in >version 2.49 can it become corrupted on shutdown? Where should it be? I would repeat the advice given to Peter Howard above. Although it's not immediately obvious why 'tabstyle' should be the one it falls over on. The Template file inside !OvnResDir.UK is the problem area though, be it an old one, a corrupt one or that you've got paths pointing to an old copy of the program. From: Martin Vethake > IfThere .Applets then Filer_OpenDir .Applets > IfThere .Applets2 then Filer_OpenDir .Applets2 >this takes into account the not yet in use second Applet directory. >On non-RiscPC's You will have to get yourself a copy of IfThere from >Acorn and stick it in Your Library. I wonder if anyone has actually got past 77 applets? OPro has in its Modules directory something called 'IfExists' which will do the job of 'IfThere' and which you know is present in all copies. (see the !Run file for examples of its use). >>FCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFEFCFFFE... > I have had a font muck-up the packedarray of the type-3 >resulting in illegal PS, but changing the encoding of binaries >within PS is completely new to me. Does the file finish >correctly (PS trailer etc.)? Yes after the coded data things continue as in the version which works. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From dhwild@argonet.co.uk Thu May 28 23:13:38 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67415 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 23:13:36 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896389820:10:19094:0; Thu, 28 May 98 21:10:20 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1018726; 28 May 98 21:10 GMT Received: from (193.130.245.51) [193.130.245.51] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yf9w7-0001UC-00; Thu, 28 May 1998 22:10:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: David H Wild To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:08:52 +0100 Message-ID: <484d7a1b2bdhwild@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: OP mailing In-Reply-To: <19980528.021955.56@pilling.demon.co.uk> Return-Receipt-To: dhwild@argonet.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain On 28 May, Adrian Warrick wrote: > I didn't conceive how many people would think this a 'monumentally > silly' idea, however I have only just purchased !Pluto which has this > capability. > I notice that only non-Argo subscribers (or Dave Symes using !Pluto) > have commented on haw daft my idea is. I wonder how many people who are > using the !Voyager internet suite in its original form (but version > 1.18) agree with my previous e-mail? I use Pluto, and the list goes into the right box with the right name. Some other (non-computer) mailing lists use a method like this and I find it irritating. One of the mailing lists (West Riding Genealogy) reversed the policy after a few days because of all the complaints. -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / Acorn Risc_PC | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ dhwild@argonet.co.uk Uploaded on Thu,28 May 1998.22:09:58 From waddell@which.net Thu May 28 23:13:55 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67416 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 28 May 98 23:13:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896391202:20:26539:0; Thu, 28 May 98 21:33:22 GMT Received: from mail1-gui.server.which.net ([194.168.97.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2026508; 28 May 98 21:33 GMT Received: from waddell.which.net ([194.168.101.25]) by mail1-gui.server.which.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with SMTP id AAB20348 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 22:33:15 +0100 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:58:18 +0100 (BST) From: John Waddell Subject: Re: Adding an embedded graphic at the cursor To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980528.021825.58@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] On Thu 28 May, Ian Lowry wrote: > On 27 May, Dr A G Gray wrote: > > I frequently use a Draw file of my signature when sending FAXes from OP. > So do I. I keep a document 'faxsig' on the pinboard. Within this document is a frame containing my signature. I open the document and drag the signature across in a similar manner. > > Can anyone come up with a method of putting this in a document at the > > cursor position either from a key short-cut, or perhaps a button on the > > button-bar, rather than having to drag it from its directory? > > I keep my signature at the bottom of the Fax blank in my Stationery folder. > Then all I have to do is drag it to the appropriate position. > This suggestion works if you have only one pro forma fax form. I have 7 or 8 different fax formats and if I were to put the signature in each, I would use up a fair amount of extra disc space. Not a problem for me but it might be for others with smaller or more crowded hard discs. (I do have the sig stored permanently on my most frequently used pro forma.) Perhaps having a single document with 7/8 pages, each containing a different pro forma might be the solution. Am I right in thinking that OP saves a graphic frame only once in a document, irrespective of the number of times it appears? It would then just be a job of printing the req For those faxes which must go via a fax machine, rather than ArcFax or whatever, a CTRL-X will get rid of the offending signatu the page and just bring it forward when required!) Another alternative, which I use for other things, is to keep a drawfile on the pinboard and just drag it into a document as an -- John Waddell, Langbank, Renfrewshire From pete.bready@cableol.co.uk Fri May 29 14:01:27 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67498 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 14:01:24 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896424707:20:06977:0; Fri, 29 May 98 06:51:47 GMT Received: from mars.cableol.net ([194.168.4.224]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2006929; 29 May 98 6:51 GMT Received: from desdemona-109.cableol.net by mars.cableol.net; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Feb96-0403PM) id AA06378; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:51:40 +0100 Message-Id: <356ECBED.C3F@cableol.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:53:33 -0700 From: Pete Bready Organization: Home X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Adding an embedded graphic at the cursor References: <19980529.012350.52@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Waddell wrote: > > On Thu 28 May, Ian Lowry wrote: > > On 27 May, Dr A G Gray wrote: > > > I frequently use a Draw file of my signature when sending FAXes from OP. I'm sure I came across a module some time ago (but of course now can't lay my hands on it) which provided a command which would simulate the effect of drag and dropping a file ie. performing the appropriate file/message protocol. I did come across the sendtext variant which would insert the text supplied at the caret. Has anyone come across a command driven module that does the above so that a button could then be setup along the lines of {oscli("sendfile :4.$.drawfiles.mysig")} to embed a graphic at the caret? This still might not present the best solution in that the resulting embedded graphic will not necessarily appear at the desired size etc. Godd hunting! Pete Bready Scotland 2 Brazil 0 From secpc@gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au Fri May 29 14:01:29 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67499 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 14:01:27 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896407425:10:24101:0; Fri, 29 May 98 02:03:45 GMT Received: from gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au ([129.96.250.33]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1023908; 29 May 98 2:03 GMT Received: from 009975 (sturt34.sturt.flinders.edu.au [129.96.238.34]) by gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SM Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980529113410.00953580@gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au> X-Sender: secpc@gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:34:10 +0900 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk From: Carl Cepurneek Subject: Mangled posting? In-Reply-To: <19980529.012350.52@pilling.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm curious, did anyone else got this, from John Waddell, with several of its lines ending mid sence? And if so any suggestions on the cause and the fix? .... >Perhaps having a single document with 7/8 pages, each containing a different >pro forma might be the solution. Am I right in thinking that OP saves a graphic >frame only once in a document, irrespective of the number of times it appears? It would then just be a job of printing the req > >For those faxes which must go via a fax machine, rather than ArcFax or whatever, a CTRL-X will get rid of the offending signatu >the page and just bring it forward when required!) > >Another alternative, which I use for other things, is to keep a drawfile on the pinboard and just drag it into a document as an .... BTW I'm reading using Eudora on a PC box :-( Thanks, cpc From pete.bready@cableol.co.uk Fri May 29 14:01:31 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67501 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 14:01:30 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896425157:10:08138:0; Fri, 29 May 98 06:59:17 GMT Received: from mars.cableol.net ([194.168.4.224]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1008069; 29 May 98 6:59 GMT Received: from desdemona-98.cableol.net by mars.cableol.net; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Feb96-0403PM) id AA00268; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:59:13 +0100 Message-Id: <356ECD97.308E@cableol.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:00:39 -0700 From: Pete Bready Organization: Home X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: !TransDDF References: <19980529.012350.52@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why does !TransDDF use filetype &&707 for DDF files when Impression itself uses &D93? For some years now I have been changing the filetype from Text which admittedly Impression uses by default, to &D93 which their mail merge program used. This filetype has the benefit that it can be dragged directly to Impression without it displaying the annoying text import dialogue boxes. Would it be sufficient to change all refs to &707 to &D93 in the !TransDDF obey files to ignore &707s? Pete Bready pete.bready@cableol.co.uk From kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Fri May 29 14:01:49 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67507 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 14:01:48 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896432154:10:04949:0; Fri, 29 May 98 08:55:54 GMT Received: from hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk ([147.143.102.8]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1004680; 29 May 98 8:55 GMT From: Mr J P Kerslake Date: Fri, 29 May 98 09:55:43 BST Message-Id: <13253.9805290855@hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk> Received: from aphrodite.sees.bangor.ac.uk by hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk; Fri, 29 May 98 09:55:43 BST To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: OP mailing Re:- > From root@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri May 29 02:30:09 1998 > From:(D.A.Symes) > Sender: root@pilling.demon.co.uk > Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 01:21:42 +0100 > Organization: > Subject: Re: OP mailing > To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L > Reply-To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk > X-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:51:16 +0100 > X-Maillist: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS > Content-Length: 1900 > > On 28 May, Adrian Warrick wrote: > > On 27 May, D.A.Symes wrote: > > > > Hi all > > > > > Just wondered if we might use a prefix in the subject so that all OP > > > > related mail is immediately identifiable? > > > > > Maybe the initials OP as in this subject heading? -------extra bits cut I get free web & email access at work. However, I, of course, have to use their system. for mail it is MailTool running on a sun. I would find having a "tag" by which I could sort my mail verry usefull. But to work they would have to be at the start of the subject line eg OVP-re:-xxxxx John Percy Kerslake B.Sc, F.B.I.S., kerslake@SEES.bangor.ac.uk Webb= http://www.sees.bangor.ac.uk/~kerslake/bio.htm Pager=01426-235878 Dysliexia rules k o My spell checker dosen't work with my mail package I am writing this at work on a sun sparc station From djh39@thor.cam.ac.uk Fri May 29 14:01:51 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67508 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 14:01:50 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896433550:10:07877:0; Fri, 29 May 98 09:19:10 GMT Received: from hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.39]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1115861; 29 May 98 9:19 GMT Received: from djh39 (helo=localhost) by hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.926 #2) for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 0yfLJa-0004Wz-00; Fri, 29 May 1998 10:19:06 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:19:06 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Hawkins X-Sender: djh39@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Re: OP mailing In-Reply-To: <19980529.012137.29@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Dave Hawkins On Fri, 29 May 1998, Cliff Downs wrote: > No, it's not a silly idea, monumental or otherwise, Alsytems do it on their > list, for which I am thankful, their prefix is [power-chat]. > > I suggest this present subject could be: [Ovation-chat] Re:OP mailing list Hmmm... and then we end up with extra long subject lines, which won't fit onto my screen because I read my mail via telnet. Thus making them completely redundant. IMHO mail filtering is a pretty basic facility and if your software hasn't got it you should really consider changing software. Dave From kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Fri May 29 14:01:54 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67509 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 14:01:52 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896433800:10:13609:0; Fri, 29 May 98 09:23:20 GMT Received: from hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk ([147.143.102.8]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1013417; 29 May 98 9:23 GMT From: Mr J P Kerslake Date: Fri, 29 May 98 10:23:11 BST Message-Id: <13549.9805290923@hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk> Received: from aphrodite.sees.bangor.ac.uk by hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk; Fri, 29 May 98 10:23:11 BST To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Printers 1.53 & blank pages. I have an A3010 (4 megs +320M HD) & HP500C inkjet printer. (A) Since upgrading OVp via the web to V2.48 i have 2 minor problems:- (a) 1 extra blank page appearing at the end of each document. Deleating page has no effect. Shinking all frames on the master & privous pages has no effect. I used view invisables to find a circle in a squair character at the top of the blank pages. This character will not delete. (b) Smart qoutes does not work realibaly. If the line of type does not start with an open quote then only open quotes will apear Unless thre is a number before the quotes IE:- (1) The "reps"---- works ok The "reps" --- does not "reps" amd "other" people works ok I am looking for more vairaitions on this theam!!! (B) I upgraded to Printers V 1.53 at Wakfield. Since then I have been unable to view print margins. Ticking the view options box "print margins" etc produces no effect. John Percy Kerslake B.Sc, F.B.I.S., kerslake@SEES.bangor.ac.uk Webb= http://www.sees.bangor.ac.uk/~kerslake/bio.htm Pager=01426-235878 Dysliexia rules k o My spell checker dosen't work with my mail package I am writing this at work on a sun sparc station From c.a.johnson@hw.ac.uk Fri May 29 14:01:54 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67505 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 14:01:40 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896431062:20:24906:4; Fri, 29 May 98 08:37:42 GMT Received: from pp.hw.ac.uk ([137.195.151.253]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2024892; 29 May 98 8:37 GMT Received: from isambard.che.hw.ac.uk by pp.hw.ac.uk with SMTP(trusted); Fri, 29 May 1998 09:37:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Chris Johnson To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:38:15 +0100 Message-ID: <484dbeb68dC.A.Johnson@isambard.che.hw.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: URL magic (was Re: Alt resources...) In-Reply-To: <19980529.012312.42@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 29 May, Martin Vethake wrote: > In your earlier message you wrote: > >happens. If you go too far up the directory structure, and then omit the > >final / from the url, then Alphanet does not recognise that the x-file > >should be treated as a directory, and instead sends the whole d**n x-file. > Well, but an image-file besides being a directory is a file after all. > Alphanet is not really wrong here. Omitting the trailing slash is > a very bad habit. If You request to access a "directory" itself > under, say UNIX by not giving a trailing slash You're being foolish > and the server helps-out by inserting it, but the image-file is > a file and why not send it? RFC 1738 tattoos anyone? ;-) I hasten to point out that I was *not* implying that it was a failing of AlphaNet, but that it was due to the use of an "image file". If one omits the final slash, but the filename is pointing to a genuine Risc OS directory, then AlphaNet does indeed insert the final slash for you, and sends a relocate so that subsequent relative paths are correct. However, if it finds a file rather than a directory, then of course it sends the file..... which is where we came in. I am not sure whether a raFS file would be treated in the same way. I guess I should try it on a dummy site. Anyway, I guess we are guilty of straying rather from OVPro itself, which is what this list is really about. Chris -- Chris Johnson mailto: C.A.Johnson@hw.ac.uk Department of Chemistry phone: 0131 449 5111 x 4116 Heriot-Watt University Edinburgh EH14 4AS From jodrell@argonet.co.uk Fri May 29 14:02:03 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67514 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 14:02:01 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896435626:10:26233:0; Fri, 29 May 98 09:53:46 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1115816; 29 May 98 9:53 GMT Received: from (193.130.246.1) [193.130.246.1] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yfLr5-0001kp-00; Fri, 29 May 1998 10:53:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Peter Howard To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:49:09 +0100 Message-ID: <484dc5346djodrell@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Various (was Printing error) In-Reply-To: <19980529.012335.33@pilling.demon.co.uk> Return-Receipt-To: jodrell@argonet.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain On 29 May, David Pilling wrote: > From: Peter Howard > >When I click on the Print button of an OvPro document, the 'All pages' > >option is shown as selected, but the 'From' slot contains 1PR15 instead of > FAQ. As ever this is because your copy of 2.49 is looking at the resources > for 2.46 or whatever. The fix is either to openup !OvnPro and double click > on !OvnResDir. Or to make sure that the new resources were installed > when you upgraded. Seemingly some people don't have the 'F' (for force) > flag set for copies (madness if you ask me). So new files don't replace old ones. Thanks, but double clicking on !OvnResDir doesn't cure the problem. What new resources should I have installed when upgrading? I used !Upgrade on my copy of 2.46, and hoped that would take care of everything. And my filer options *do* have the F flag set. Further advice/help will be greatly appreciated. Peter H. From rayd@argonet.co.uk Fri May 29 14:02:03 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67513 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 14:02:01 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896436843:20:13000:3; Fri, 29 May 98 10:14:03 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2012928; 29 May 98 10:14 GMT Received: from (ba67.argonet.co.uk) [193.130.246.6] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yfMAf-00020C-00; Fri, 29 May 1998 11:13:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:51:52 +0100 Message-ID: <484dc573e1rayd@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: OvationPro won't load In-Reply-To: <19980529.012249.88@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain On 29 May, Bob Charlton wrote: > I recently purchased a copy of Ovation v2.46 and upgraded it to v2.49 and > started to design some standard pages. > I'd saved them and test printed them, before switching off the computer > and when I tried to reload Ovation there is an error report 'Template > Tabstyle not found' is this template required to be saved separately or > in version 2.49 can it become corrupted on shutdown? Where should it be? Copy the !OvnPro from the upgrade over your working !OvnPro, but make sure you have Force on and Newer off whilst doing it. Then either reboot or go inside your working copy and click on !OvnRes and it should be Ok. Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd From rayd@argonet.co.uk Fri May 29 14:02:06 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67515 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 14:02:04 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896436845:10:24331:1; Fri, 29 May 98 10:14:05 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1103264; 29 May 98 10:13 GMT Received: from (ba67.argonet.co.uk) [193.130.246.6] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yfMAd-00020C-00; Fri, 29 May 1998 11:13:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:48:04 +0100 Message-ID: <484dc51aedrayd@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: OP mailing In-Reply-To: <19980529.012343.45@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain On 29 May, David H Wild wrote: > On 28 May, Adrian Warrick wrote: > > I didn't conceive how many people would think this a 'monumentally > > silly' idea, however I have only just purchased !Pluto which has this > > capability. > > I notice that only non-Argo subscribers (or Dave Symes using !Pluto) > > have commented on haw daft my idea is. I wonder how many people who are > > using the !Voyager internet suite in its original form (but version > > 1.18) agree with my previous e-mail? > I use Pluto, and the list goes into the right box with the right name. > Some other (non-computer) mailing lists use a method like this and I > find it irritating. One of the mailing lists (West Riding Genealogy) > reversed the policy after a few days because of all the complaints. On a practical note, Argonet non-Pluto users could use one of their five email addresses for Ovation Pro messages. If you have one spare, then use that for OP only or else use the lightest load one. It may require re-subscribing to the list. Maybe not a perfect answer, but one that will get you by until Argo supply the promised new mail software. Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd From wildtime@argonet.co.uk Fri May 29 14:02:14 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67519 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 14:02:12 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896438529:10:08873:0; Fri, 29 May 98 10:42:09 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1127326; 29 May 98 10:42 GMT Received: from (193.130.250.188) [193.130.250.188] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yfMbl-0002Q0-00; Fri, 29 May 1998 11:41:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Tim Rickard) Reply-To: wildtime@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 28 May 98 23:39:07 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: OP mailing Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: On Thu 28 May 98 (02:19:55 +0100), awarrick@argonet.co.uk wrote: >On 27 May, D.A.Symes wrote: >> > Hi all > >> > Just wondered if we might use a prefix in the subject so that all >OP >> > related mail is immediately identifiable? > >> > Maybe the initials OP as in this subject heading? SNIPPAGE I wonder how many people who are >using the !Voyager internet suite in its original form (but version >1.18) agree with my previous e-mail? > >Adrian >__ I agree with you. I am interested in all OP matters, but I would rather they appeared enshrined and discrete, rather than jumbled with my routine email. Any advice how to get round this? Tim -- Tim Rickard/Tish Faith. wildtime@argonet.co.uk From dgporter@argonet.co.uk Fri May 29 15:27:55 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67536 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 15:27:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896451686:20:21360:2; Fri, 29 May 98 14:21:26 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2107699; 29 May 98 14:21 GMT Received: from (193.130.245.153) [193.130.245.153] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yfQ27-0005Mh-00; Fri, 29 May 1998 15:21:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Derrick Porter To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:07:41 +0100 Message-ID: <484dcc652adgporter@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08f for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: OP mailing In-Reply-To: <19980529.012137.29@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 29 May, Cliff Downs wrote: > On Thu 28 May 98 (02:19:55 +0100), awarrick@argonet.co.uk wrote: > > On 27 May, D.A.Symes wrote: > > > > Just wondered if we might use a prefix in the subject so that > > > > all OP related mail is immediately identifiable? > [snip] > > I didn't conceive how many people would think this a > > 'monumentally silly' idea, however I have only just purchased > > !Pluto which has this capability. > > > > I notice that only non-Argo subscribers (or Dave Symes using > > !Pluto) have commented on haw daft my idea is. I wonder how many > > people who are using the !Voyager internet suite in its original > > form (but version 1.18) agree with my previous e-mail? > > > > Adrian > No, it's not a silly idea, monumental or otherwise, Alsytems do it > on their list, for which I am thankful, their prefix is > [power-chat]. > I suggest this present subject could be: [Ovation-chat] Re:OP > mailing list No, please don't do this. I also subscribe to the PowerChat list and find this to be a very irritating practice. The prefix hinders the rapid scanning of a list that has been sorted by article title. I therefore remove the prefix from all PowerChat articles that I keep. Like all Pluto users I have no problems in directing incoming mail-list articles into the appropriate box. For me, at least, the prefix is redundant. -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Derrick G Porter dgporter@argonet.co.uk Tel: +44 1798 81 2383 ..... in deepest Sussex ..... ___________________________________________________________________________ From paul@tyto.demon.co.uk Fri May 29 16:39:24 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67537 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 16:39:22 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896452336:20:29409:1; Fri, 29 May 98 14:32:16 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ad2117576; 29 May 98 14:31 GMT Received: from tyto.demon.co.uk ([194.222.110.18]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2004786; 29 May 98 14:31 GMT Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:19:45 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Hutton Subject: Exporting text from OPro To: Ovation Pro Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Does anyone know about exporting text from Opro? I have prepared a piece of work with tabs, and want to send it to a Win95 user (groan). If I export it as a text file or as DDL, will she be able to read it, with the tab settings preserved? Men in tanks -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" From paul@tyto.demon.co.uk Fri May 29 16:39:26 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67538 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 16:39:25 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896452344:20:29510:0; Fri, 29 May 98 14:32:24 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac2117576; 29 May 98 14:31 GMT Received: from tyto.demon.co.uk ([194.222.110.18]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2004797; 29 May 98 14:31 GMT Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:29:57 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Hutton Subject: OEFPro not working with 2.50 To: Ovation Pro Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] The subject says it all really. I copied over my OEFPro (1.30) applet into version 2.50 of OPro, and all seemed fine, with OPro accessing my SCSI drive for necessary fonts, until I sent an e-mail. I looked at my work, to find that the SCSI fonts on my master page had reverted to Trinity! I deleted the applet and tried to reinstall the applet from scratch, only to have the error message "not found". Any ideas? -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" From pete.bready@cableol.co.uk Fri May 29 18:30:28 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67547 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 18:30:26 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896461107:10:09894:0; Fri, 29 May 98 16:58:27 GMT Received: from mars.cableol.net ([194.168.4.224]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1009804; 29 May 98 16:58 GMT Received: from desdemona-100.cableol.net by mars.cableol.net; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Feb96-0403PM) id AA11743; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:58:20 +0100 Message-Id: <356F5A21.2475@cableol.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:00:17 -0700 From: Pete Bready Organization: Home X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: OvPro 2.50 References: <19980528.021919.87@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the release notes for OvPro 2.50 it talks about v1.10 of !TransDDF - where's this available? Thanks Pete Bready From awarrick@argonet.co.uk Fri May 29 22:55:45 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67556 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 29 May 98 22:55:42 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896478333:10:03476:0; Fri, 29 May 98 21:45:33 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125840; 29 May 98 21:45 GMT Received: from (193.130.251.73) [193.130.251.73] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yfWxt-0004dp-00; Fri, 29 May 1998 22:45:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Adrian Warrick To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 22:02:49 +0100 Message-ID: <484e02e18eawarrick@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: OP mailing In-Reply-To: <19980529.012142.37@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 29 May, D.A.Symes wrote: Snipped idea about subject headings > My apologies Adrian, > A greater use of smilies is perhaps called for... :-) ;-) Absolutely no reason to apologise, having re-read my second mailing I realise its content is rather ambiguous. I am the one who should apologise for that second email. And now for going rather off-topic. ;-} > 'Twas not my intention to consider your idea silly... It was more of a > twofold surprised reaction. > One, being... it's such a long long time now since I've used Voyager Posty > and Newsagent, I'd forgotten some of their failings. > Two, being... there seems to be quite a lot of names on the OVPro > maillist, that like myself are also on the Pluto maillist, and it's a > subject that's been covered in the past. Thanks for informing me of the existence of the !Pluto mailing list, now I have only to find the address to log-on. I seem to have opened a can of worms with this, trouble is I can see both points of view. Julian's contribution seems to cover both sides. Adrian - Respice Prospice -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ awarrick@argonet.co.uk From waddell@which.net Sat May 30 01:35:18 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67566 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 01:35:16 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896486224:10:11968:0; Fri, 29 May 98 23:57:04 GMT Received: from mail1-gui.server.which.net ([194.168.97.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1011934; 29 May 98 23:56 GMT Received: from waddell.which.net ([194.168.101.107]) by mail1-gui.server.which.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with SMTP id AAA28426 for ; Sat, 30 May 1998 00:56:55 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:11:50 +0100 (BST) From: John Waddell Subject: Re: Adding an embedded graphic at the cursor To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980529.012350.52@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] On Fri 29 May, John Waddell wrote: > On Thu 28 May, Ian Lowry wrote: > > On 27 May, Dr A G Gray wrote: > > > I frequently use a Draw file of my signature when sending FAXes from OP. > > > So do I. I keep a document 'faxsig' on the pinboard. Within this document is > a frame containing my signature. I open the document and drag the signature > across in a similar manner. > > frame only once in a document, irrespective of the number of times it appears? It wou > ld then just be a job of printing the req ****** > here and .... > For those faxes which must go via a fax machine, rather than ArcFax or whatever, a CTR > L-X will get rid of the offending signatu***** here and .... > the page and just bring it forward when required!) > > Another alternative, which I use for other things, is to keep a drawfile on the pinboa > rd and just drag it into a document as an**** here.... Why would some characters have fallen off, between sending an OK message and receipt in this group?? -- John Waddell, Langbank, Renfrewshire From bellonsn@trick.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Sat May 30 01:35:47 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67568 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 01:35:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896483598:20:06000:2; Fri, 29 May 98 23:13:18 GMT Received: from noc.belwue.de ([129.143.2.1]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2107250; 29 May 98 23:13 GMT Received: from ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.211.1]) by noc.belwue.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25362 for ; Sat, 30 May 1998 01:13:08 +0200 (MET DST) env-from (bellonsn@trick.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de) Received: by tick.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de with SMTP; Sat, 30 May 1998 01:13:05 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Bellon To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 01:14:09 +0200 Message-ID: <484e0ee769bellonsn@trick.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Upgrading to 2.50 Content-Type: text/plain Yes I have read the ReadMe file, but nevertheless one question: Is it possible to install the upgrade over a 2.49 installation or do I *really* have to re-install the 2.46 off the discs and then install the 2.50 on top of it? It'd be much easier for me to just install the 2.50 on top of the 2.49. TIA. Greetings, -- _____ _____ ____ ____ ____ _ _ | ___/_ _| __| __/ __ | \| | Stefan Bellon mailto:sbellon@gmx.de |___ | | | | __| __| __ | | /_____| |_| |____|_| |_||_|_|\_| Acorn RiscPC * StrongARM 202Mhz * 50 MB RAM WOMAN.ZIP - Great program but no documentation. From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Sat May 30 02:46:22 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67588 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 02:46:21 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896488545:10:14958:0; Sat, 30 May 98 00:35:45 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1103042; 30 May 98 0:35 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yfZca-00025n-00; Sat, 30 May 1998 01:35:40 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 May 98 23:04:11 GMT Message-Id: <67561@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: Carl Cepurneek >I'm curious, did anyone else got this, from John Waddell, with several of >its lines ending mid sence? And if so any suggestions on the cause and the >fix? I believe it's my fault. I think my SMTP mailer won't accept lines longer than 120 characters. From: Pete Bready >Why does !TransDDF use filetype &&707 for DDF files when Impression >itself uses &D93? For some years now I have been changing the >filetype from Text which admittedly Impression uses by default, >to &D93 which their mail merge program used. >Would it be sufficient to change all refs to &707 to &D93 in >the !TransDDF obey files to ignore &707s? Yes that should work. This is an interesting point. To me Impression just didn't seem to have a type for DDF (how would I know, I've hardly ever used it), and no one else has pointed this out. A quick check reveals that the Impression !Run files don't set up type D93 either. How do you make Impression save as type D93 by default? From: Mr J P Kerslake >(a) 1 extra blank page appearing at the end of each document. Deleating >page has no effect. Shinking all frames on the master & privous pages >has no effect. I used view invisables to find a circle in a squair >character at the top of the blank pages. This character will not delete. That character denotes end of text. More interesting is the last invisible on the previous page. Anyway send me a small example document... >(b) Smart qoutes does not work realibaly. Anyone else seen this? >(B) I upgraded to Printers V 1.53 at Wakfield. Since then I have been >unable to view print margins. Ticking the view options box "print margins" >etc produces no effect. Maybe the paper print margins are a lot bigger? Try opening an A3 document. From: Chris Johnson >I hasten to point out that I was *not* implying that it was a failing of >AlphaNet, but that it was due to the use of an "image file". If one omits >the final slash, but the filename is pointing to a genuine Risc OS >directory, then AlphaNet does indeed insert the final slash for you, and You could have a specially tweeked version of ImageFSFix that made all image files look like directories... From: Peter Howard >Thanks, but double clicking on !OvnResDir doesn't cure the problem. What >new resources should I have installed when upgrading? I used !Upgrade on >my copy of 2.46, and hoped that would take care of everything. And my >filer options *do* have the F flag set. Inside !OvnResDir.UK - the file 'Messages' should be 14032 bytes long and dated 28/2/98 - it should also of course contain the PR15 token. You will find that this file is contained in the !OvnPro supplied in the upgrade archive. And so if you copied across the !OvnPro then the new file should have copied across too. From: Pete Bready >In the release notes for OvPro 2.50 it talks about v1.10 of !TransDDF - where's this >available? Ah no rest for the wicked. I will endeavour to get it on the web site by the time you read this. From: Stefan Bellon >Is it possible to install the upgrade over a 2.49 installation or do I >*really* have to re-install the 2.46 off the discs and then install the >2.50 on top of it? It'd be much easier for me to just install the 2.50 >on top of the 2.49. No. The patcher contains the difference between 2.46 and 2.50. So you must patch 2.46. If you go back far enough you can read the saga of why we have a patch program that doesn't quite work properly, so can only be used in a limited way. I have fired off a memo to the powers that be to discover if the copy protection guy is back in the UK... David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From nospam@biggun.keinyuri.u-net.com Sat May 30 15:30:48 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67650 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 15:30:47 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896506488:10:18731:0; Sat, 30 May 98 05:34:48 GMT Received: from hme0.serv1.is4.u-net.net ([195.102.240.153]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1018601; 30 May 98 5:34 GMT Received: from keinyuri.u-net.com [195.102.197.3] by serv1.is4.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yfeHB-00077p-00; Sat, 30 May 1998 05:33:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ian Worrall To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 06:20:18 +0100 Message-ID: <484e306d5bnospam@keinyuri.u-net.com> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Printers 1.53 & blank pages. In-Reply-To: <19980530.030545.68@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 30 May, Mr J P Kerslake wrote: > I have an A3010 (4 megs +320M HD) & HP500C inkjet printer. > (A) Since upgrading OVp via the web to V2.48 i have 2 minor problems:- > (B) I upgraded to Printers V 1.53 at Wakfield. Since then I have been > unable to view print margins. Ticking the view options box "print > margins" etc produces no effect. You _do_ have a printer driver loaded when trying this? Most applications read the paper size for margins from the printer driver, No driver=no margins. -- Ian Worrall mailto: ian@keinyuri.u-net.com From chrism@spuddy.mew.co.uk Sat May 30 15:31:11 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67656 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 15:31:10 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896527803:10:10316:0; Sat, 30 May 98 11:30:03 GMT Received: from nebula.mpn.com ([194.72.64.30]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010190; 30 May 98 11:30 GMT Received: from spuddy.mew.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by nebula.mpn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id MAA29463 for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 30 May 1998 12:23:05 +0100 Received: (from chrism@localhost) by spuddy.mew.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA24857; Sat, 30 May 1998 09:22:08 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:08:47 +0100 From: Chris Manning To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: PS & Fiery Message-ID: <484D3DAC35%chrism@spuddy.mew.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <19980527.030545.69@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS Organization: Organisation? Er, no... X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21beta X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60g In message <19980527.030545.69@pilling.demon.co.uk> ovation@gvine.demon.co.uk (Alan Muscat) wrote: > I have a working version of GS 4.03. First off you should have > everything in a filing system that handles longfilesnames otherwise > some names get contracted. But does that matter if you've configured Truncate On? I've made little use of GhostScript, but it seems to work OK with truncated file names. > I have 2 directories of fonts in the !GhostScr dir, they are called > Fonts1 and Fonts2, Mine are all in a directory called Fonts, which suggests that maybe I have fewer than I should? > though I can't remember if these names are essential or not. I imagine you can choose what you want so long as you point GhostScriptFont$Path at them. Chris From rjet1@cus.cam.ac.uk Sat May 30 15:31:17 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67658 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 15:31:16 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896529883:10:10713:0; Sat, 30 May 98 12:04:43 GMT Received: from ursa.cus.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.6]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010561; 30 May 98 12:04 GMT Received: from rjet1.quns.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.141.45]) by ursa.cus.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.927 #1) for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 0yfkNJ-0005ps-00; Sat, 30 May 1998 13:04:37 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 13:04:37 +0100 (BST) From: Rupert Thompson Subject: Re: OP mailing To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980530.030538.53@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-No-Archive: Yes X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] On Sat 30 May, Dave Hawkins wrote: > On Fri, 29 May 1998, Cliff Downs wrote: > > > No, it's not a silly idea, monumental or otherwise, Alsytems do it on their > > list, for which I am thankful, their prefix is [power-chat]. > > > > I suggest this present subject could be: [Ovation-chat] Re:OP mailing list > > Hmmm... and then we end up with extra long subject lines, which won't fit > onto my screen because I read my mail via telnet. Thus making them > completely redundant. IMHO mail filtering is a pretty basic facility and > if your software hasn't got it you should really consider changing > software. I read mail on-line rather than downloading it, because I have a permanent connexion, so filtering is not an option. And isn't telnetting into Hermes just to read mail deprecated as causing too much system load? You should be using Mulberry, shurely ;-) -- Rupert Thompson Queens' College, Cambridge, CB3 9ET, UK http://rjet1.quns.cam.ac.uk/ (when my computer's on!) From margetts@globalnet.co.uk Sat May 30 15:31:41 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67663 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 15:31:40 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896531596:20:22427:0; Sat, 30 May 98 12:33:16 GMT Received: from sand.global.net.uk ([194.126.82.9]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2114895; 30 May 98 12:32 GMT Received: from margetts.globalnet.co.uk (client13b2.globalnet.co.uk [195.147.13.178]) by sand.global.net.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA18517 for ; Sat, 30 May 1998 13:32:41 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 12:50:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Peter Margetts Subject: upgrading: additional help To: Ovation Pro Mailing List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] In the wake of another fine upgrade, I have collected some extra instructions that I have found necessary for my system. Perhaps it will help someone. Extra info from PM As well as DP's instructions, also: Create two new directories. One called something like OldVrsions and one called Upgrades. When an upgrade becomes available. E.g. V2.49 = existing and V2.50 = new 1. Create appropriate directory e.g. upg250 in Upgrades and dearchive upgrade file into it. 2. Create appropriate directory e.g. ovp249 in OldVrsions and copy current version into it. 3. Take your copy of v2.46 from where you put it e.g. opv246 and copy it into a new directory called e.g. ovp250 (name of the version to upgrade to). 4. Carry out DP's upgrade procedure on v2.46, which will give a *basic* new version. 5. Copy Applets from existing version to new version's Applets directory.(filer options Newer) 6. Create directory called OldMacros in the new version's AutoRun directory and move !Macros into it. 7. Then copy the existing AutoRun.!Macros file to the new version's AutoRun directory to give custom or multirow button bar if required. Copy over other AutoRun files as desired. 8. Copy existing Library file with extra files (filer options Newer) into new Library directory. 9. Copy existing !OvnResDir with extra files (filer options Newer) into new !OvnResDir directory 10. Copy existing !UserWords into new version 11. Delete current !OvnPro and copy new version in its place. 12. Run new version to check that it operates correctly. This usually overcomes problems with applets not operating and ensures that various additions such as multi-row button bar are carried over to the new version. -- Pete Margetts From rayd@argonet.co.uk Sat May 30 15:31:48 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67666 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 15:31:47 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896534938:20:25352:0; Sat, 30 May 98 13:28:58 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2025340; 30 May 98 13:28 GMT Received: from (ba67.argonet.co.uk) [193.130.245.195] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yflgp-0005kF-00; Sat, 30 May 1998 14:28:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:13:16 +0100 Message-ID: <484e4b3fc2rayd@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Upgrading to 2.50 In-Reply-To: <19980530.030716.01@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain On 30 May, Stefan Bellon wrote: > Yes I have read the ReadMe file, but nevertheless one question: > Is it possible to install the upgrade over a 2.49 installation or do I > *really* have to re-install the 2.46 off the discs and then install the > 2.50 on top of it? It'd be much easier for me to just install the 2.50 > on top of the 2.49. Yes, the installer has to presume a definitive version for protection reasons and 2.46 was the one chosen. I have a version of 2.46 hidden away in a directory and which I bring out just for updates. It saves a lot of time, as long as you have the disc space to accomodate it. I copy the applets across from the previous working version as they are more up to date. (Also my modified Macros and !Menus files) Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd From rayd@argonet.co.uk Sat May 30 15:31:50 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67667 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 15:31:49 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896534945:20:25414:3; Sat, 30 May 98 13:29:05 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2025334; 30 May 98 13:28 GMT Received: from (ba67.argonet.co.uk) [193.130.245.195] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yflgo-0005kF-00; Sat, 30 May 1998 14:28:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:05:26 +0100 Message-ID: <484e4a882erayd@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Exporting text from OPro In-Reply-To: <19980530.030638.32@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain On 30 May, Paul Hutton wrote: > Does anyone know about exporting text from Opro? I have prepared a piece > of work with tabs, and want to send it to a Win95 user (groan). If I > export it as a text file or as DDL, will she be able to read it, with > the tab settings preserved? Yes, but some characters may get changed, such as the pound sign. Save it as a text file as DDL means nothing to Win 95. If you give it a .txt ending, then her wordprocessor will have no problem recognising it. Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd From philip@blencathra.demon.co.uk Sat May 30 15:31:37 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67661 for ovation-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 15:31:32 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovation-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896529185:20:29674:0; Sat, 30 May 98 11:53:05 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2122522; 30 May 98 11:52 GMT Received: from blencathra.demon.co.uk ([194.222.71.242]) by post.mail.demon.net id ac2014558; 30 May 98 11:52 GMT Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 12:29:46 +0100 From: Philip Powell To: ovation-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: OvPro 2.50 - dearchive problem Message-ID: <7340524e48%philip@blencathra.demon.co.uk> Organization: Sharp Edge X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21beta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60l Subject says it. I downloaded the upgrade but it will not dearchive correctly with either !SparkPlug 2.26 or !ArcFS2. The hitch is with !Upgade.Patch.!RunImage. When double clicking on the archive I get the error message: 'Invalid Zipfile Header', archive opens and everything else can be extracted but it hangs when reaching the Patch.!RunImage file. ALT/BREAK to terminate !Spark showed the RunImage file to be >20Mb which I assumed to be a tad on the large side (-: I assume it is probably clashing with something else but can't work it out. I had this problem once before and switching my computer off and back on cured it but not this time. Any ideas? TIA -- Philip Powell Looking north across the Derwent Valley and Northumberland to The Cheviot PGP Key available on request From alfchamings@ed.ac.uk Sat May 30 15:31:46 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67665 for maillist ; Sat, 30 May 98 15:31:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for maillist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896533860:20:14813:0; Sat, 30 May 98 13:11:00 GMT Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk ([129.215.166.17]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2105637; 30 May 98 13:10 GMT Received: from alfred.ed.ac.uk (dialup-96.publab.ed.ac.uk [129.215.38.96]) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23121 for ; Sat, 30 May 1998 14:10:56 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:10:48 +0100 (BST) From: Alf Chamings Subject: ligatures To: maillist@pilling.demon.co.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but I have only just noticed this effect (disconcerting at first): when inserting text before a letter i or l, this letter is 'absorbed into the previous letter whenever you type an f. Inserting text before the word 'it' for example very quickly becomes text before 't' as the i is stolen by the f. The solution is always to insert text before a space I suppose. Alf -- mailto:AlfChamings@ed.ac.uk Health and Safety for the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 http://www.med.ed.ac.uk/hew/ for occupational and environmental health From jodrell@argonet.co.uk Sat May 30 16:59:02 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67689 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 16:58:59 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896542326:10:10496:0; Sat, 30 May 98 15:32:06 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010381; 30 May 98 15:32 GMT Received: from (193.130.246.120) [193.130.246.120] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yfnc1-0007Ja-00; Sat, 30 May 1998 16:32:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Peter Howard To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:22:02 +0100 Message-ID: <484e67844ajodrell@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Various In-Reply-To: <19980530.030723.62@pilling.demon.co.uk> Return-Receipt-To: jodrell@argonet.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain On 30 May, David Pilling wrote: > From: Peter Howard > >Thanks, but double clicking on !OvnResDir doesn't cure the problem. What > >new resources should I have installed when upgrading? I used !Upgrade on > >my copy of 2.46, and hoped that would take care of everything. And my > >filer options *do* have the F flag set. > Inside !OvnResDir.UK - the file 'Messages' should be 14032 bytes long > and dated 28/2/98 - it should also of course contain the PR15 > token. You will find that this file is contained in the !OvnPro supplied > in the upgrade archive. And so if you copied across the !OvnPro > then the new file should have copied across too. Many thanks for the clear information. My upgrade copy of 'Messages' was only about 1300 bytes long, so I re-installed OvPro 2.46 and re-downloaded the update file. Now everything works according to schedule. Repeated thanks and regards. Peter H. From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Sat May 30 19:23:05 1998 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67696 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 19:23:02 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896544287:20:26926:0; Sat, 30 May 98 16:04:47 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2116257; 30 May 98 16:04 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yfo7i-0007NF-00; Sat, 30 May 1998 17:04:46 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 May 98 16:49:29 GMT Message-Id: <67687@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From rayd@argonet.co.uk Sat May 30 15:31:48 1998 I should have said that with 2.50 you can copy over all applets from 2.49 and all the autorun and library files. I think that the only changes are minor ones to the templates and of course the main !RunImage. From: Philip Powell >Subject says it. I downloaded the upgrade but it will not dearchive >correctly with either !SparkPlug 2.26 or !ArcFS2. The hitch is with >!Upgade.Patch.!RunImage. Well don't waste your time with ArcFS2 (unbiased advice there). It won't look at Zip files. I'd guess the archive you've downloaded is damaged. Try again I'd say. Probably doing the Shift + click on link thing. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From clive.holland@btinternet.com Sat May 30 19:23:12 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA67698 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 30 May 98 19:23:09 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 896550270:10:27232:0; Sat, 30 May 98 17:44:30 GMT Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1027122; 30 May 98 17:44 GMT Received: from clive.holland.btinternet.com [195.99.59.41] by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0yfpfI-0007Lh-00; Sat, 30 May 1998 18:43:32 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:57:23 +0100 (BST) From: Clive Holland Subject: Re: Alsystems To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980529.012137.29@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Morning Cliff, On Fri 29 May, Cliff Downs wrote: > No, it's not a silly idea, monumental or otherwise, Alsytems do it on their > list, for which I am thankful, their prefix is [power-chat]. > I agree over the name of the Ovation list. But I am interested in the Alsystems chat list. I wasn't aware that Alsystem had a mailing list. Would you know what its full name is and if it is possible to subscribe to it? Thanks -- Clive clive.holland@btinternet.com