From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri May 1 13:59:17 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64545 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 01 May 98 13:59:15 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 893990784:10:04176:0; Fri, 01 May 98 03:46:24 BST Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1112394; 1 May 98 3:46 BST Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yV5q0-0007jS-00; Fri, 1 May 1998 03:46:13 +0100 Date: Fri, 01 May 98 03:00:56 GMT Message-Id: <64541@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 News ---- Some small additions to the www.beebug.com web pages !TransIMP 1.00 - Crude attempt to strip ASCII text out of any file. Richard Hallas multi-row button bar. Chemistry 'characterisation data' macros from Stephen Brown. New UKey keyboard module which uses OS calls to track shift keys and is thus more friendly to keyboard enhancer programs, like KeyFix. I have also swopped around the 2.49 and 2.48 upgrades. So 2.49 is accessed from the web pages. This makes 2.49 the official current version, and pushes 2.48 into the background. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From don.lewis@bristol.ac.uk Fri May 1 13:59:29 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64550 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 01 May 98 13:59:26 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894024786:10:00150:0; Fri, 01 May 98 13:13:06 BST Received: from dirc.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.51]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1000005; 1 May 98 13:13 BST Received: from sis.bris.ac.uk by dirc.bris.ac.uk with SMTP-PRIV (PP) with ESMTP; Fri, 1 May 1998 13:09:32 +0100 Received: from dml1.pys.bristol.ac.uk (dml1.pys.bris.ac.uk [137.222.53.82]) by sis.bris.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14513 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 13:08:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:08:22 +0100 (BST) From: "Dr. D. M. Lewis" Subject: Re: Editing Master Pages To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980501.021928.01@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] > > Incidentally, I=91ve noticed that many postings finish > > up like this=20 > > on my mail reader. Can I plead with correspondents - > > don=91t use non-standard ASCII characters, especially the less common ones which ordinary mortals can't translate easily. It wastes everone's time to have to put the message through a decoder if it's not built into the mail-reader. Most of the fancy quotes etc. are not essential, and appearance is just as unimportant for this type of material. Thanks Don Lewis Dr. D. M. Lewis, Bristol. From waddell@which.net Fri May 1 21:11:15 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64579 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 01 May 98 21:11:14 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894051829:05:23623:10; Fri, 01 May 98 19:43:49 GMT Received: from mail1-gui.server.which.net ([194.168.97.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0523611; 1 May 98 19:43 GMT Received: from waddell.which.net ([194.168.100.175]) by mail1-gui.server.which.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with SMTP id AAC9156 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 20:43:35 +0100 Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:01:14 +0100 (BST) From: John Waddell Subject: Sryles and Function Keys To: Ovation mail list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] I have been fairly conservative in my use of styles, sticking with F2 and F4 to give me a choice, including bodytext, of 3 styles. I now find that I wish to define more styles which means I shall probably resort to combination keypresses, as recommended in the manual, such as CTRL/F1. Before I do, out of interest, which keys do other OvPro users set up for styles? -- John Waddell, Langbank, Renfrewshire From renet@ihug.co.nz Sat May 2 15:14:10 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64627 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 02 May 98 15:14:08 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894085453:05:15435:1; Sat, 02 May 98 05:04:13 GMT Received: from cheech.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.9]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1507483; 2 May 98 5:04 GMT Received: from renet.ihug.co.nz (p39-max2.ham.ihug.co.nz [202.49.253.103]) by cheech.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA3 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:08:47 +1200 (GMT) From: Rene Turner Subject: Re: Editing Master Pages To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980502.021406.95@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: Rene H Turner, Hamilton, New Zealand. Ph:+64 7 8435779 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by cheech.ihug.co.nz id RAA30911 On Sat 02 May, "Dr. D. M. Lewis" wrote: >=20 > > > Incidentally, I=3D91ve noticed that many postings finish > > > up like this=3D20 > > > on my mail reader. Can I plead with correspondents - > > > don=3D91t use >=20 > non-standard ASCII characters, especially the less common ones which > ordinary mortals can't translate easily. It wastes everone's time to > have to put the message through a decoder if it's not built into the > mail-reader. Most of the fancy quotes etc. are not essential, and > appearance is just as unimportant for this type of material. >=20 Umm .. i may be able to help with the Upper ASCII... it seems that Marcel changes it if Files Transfer is set to MIME.. and sends it correctly if set to "UUencode" it matters not if you are actually transfering files or not. And i must Disagree with Don... I find it most agravating when my name cannot be spelled correctly because of the loss of Upper ASCII. =20 --=20 May G-d Bless you and Keep you... Ren=E9 Turner ..Survivor 82... Mailto:renet@ihug.co.nz=20 H.I.S. NZ http://www.head-injury.org.nz =20 He has half the deed done who has made a beginning. Horace From robh@argonet.co.uk Sat May 2 15:14:32 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64635 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 02 May 98 15:14:30 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894097482:10:04385:0; Sat, 02 May 98 09:24:42 BST Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1121503; 2 May 98 9:24 BST Received: from (193.130.245.9) [193.130.245.9] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yVXay-00018i-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:24:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Rob Hemmings) To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 1 May 98 (22:26:27 +0100) X-Organization: Argonet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: ArgoNet 'Voyager' Email Program 1.17 : ac Subject: Re: Various Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: On Thu 30 Apr 98 (02:40:22 +0100), David Pilling wrote: > > >From: Max Wall > >>When I bought my copy of Ovation Pro at Acorn World 96, they were >>demonstrating on the Beebug stand a applet for Ovation Pro which did >>graduated fills (like in Artworks) and looked really impressive. > >I have a copy 8-) Seriously I can't see me finishing it now. > >Over the last year, Beebug have sacked all their technical support >staff, >all their salesmen, and all their software staff. Currently there's me, >and there's Sheridan Williams (company director). It's a consequence of >this that I now have no time to spend programming. >If you feel you were promised this applet, email sheridan@beebug.co.uk. >David Pilling Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that a lot of people on this mailing list seemed to agree with the idea of putting money towards the future development of Ovation when I suggested it some time ago. If you remember I suggested an Ovation "supporters club". Despite this we still seem to be getting free upgrades. Free upgrades are obviously very nice to have but not if they eventually mean that the product cannot be developed because it is not making enough money. I'll repeat my comment at the time which is that to ensure continued development of Ovation I am quite happy to contribute an annual fee and would be prepared, if necessary, for larger figures than those mentioned by David last time. I'd particularly suggest the thought that an attractive way of getting people to contribute would be if they could then have some influence on the priority for future developments. -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Rob Hemmings Southport Tel: +44 (0)1704 573210 robh@argonet.co.uk From rayd@argonet.co.uk Sat May 2 15:14:34 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64636 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 02 May 98 15:14:33 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894101811:10:20907:0; Sat, 02 May 98 10:36:51 BST Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1105945; 2 May 98 10:36 BST Received: from (ba67.argonet.co.uk) [193.130.245.31] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yVYin-0001gO-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 10:36:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:15:02 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Sryles and Function Keys In-Reply-To: <19980502.021413.94@pilling.demon.co.uk> Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain On 02 May, John Waddell wrote: > I have been fairly conservative in my use of styles, sticking with F2 > and F4 to give me a choice, including bodytext, of 3 styles. > I now find that I wish to define more styles which means I shall probably > resort to combination keypresses, as recommended in the manual, such as > CTRL/F1. > Before I do, out of interest, which keys do other OvPro users set up for > styles? As all the straight function keys are used by OP (ie F3 save, F4 search/replace etc) I use Shift-F1-11 (excepting S-F3 which is save text on mine) for style setup. I used the same Shift-F keys as Publisher used F keys for styles, so S-F1 is Main Heading, S-F2 Sub Heading etc. Ray D -- ===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd From julian@southern.co.nz Sat May 2 18:31:09 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64643 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 02 May 98 18:31:08 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894122020:10:20947:0; Sat, 02 May 98 16:13:40 BST Received: from cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1118054; 2 May 98 16:13 BST Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (ppp137143.netaccess.co.nz [202.37.101.143]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA17099 for ; Sun, 3 May 1998 03:13:00 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Sun,03 May 1998.03:17:45 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 03:11:54 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Spelling Message-ID: <02ffb3f48%julian@illusio.milieu.org.nz> In-Reply-To: <19980425.021739.71@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980425.021739.71@pilling.demon.co.uk> djh39@cam.ac.uk (Dave Hawkins) wrote: > The following sentence exemplifies my problem (it might not make > complete sense): > > I want my dictionaries to include 'words' containing non-alphabetic > characters, i.e. abbreviations with dots, numbers, e.g. Modula-3, or even > spaces for phrases where some of the words do not occur singularly per se. > > On spellchecking this I get questioned about the following errors: > i > e > g > Modula > se > > However, these are correct so I want to add the following different > 'words' to my dictionary, since the above are taken out of context. > i.e. > e.g. > Modula-3 > per se [snip] Personally, I don't like finding "i.e." and "e.g." in written work. I feel they should be `expanded' into what they really mean (there are a few exceptions, such as the likes of IRC). i.e. and e.g. belong in the abbreviations dictionary, not the spelling dictionary. If nothing else it highlights the construction of the sentence, which will often seem more than slightly bizarre. Per se, on the other hand, is a more interesting difficulty. (I wouldn't use `Modula-3', either, but that's 'cause I only really use -'s as hyphens) -- I won't use words again | Faith | May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant |manages| and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said | - JMS | places where you must walk From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Sat May 2 20:01:39 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64665 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 02 May 98 20:01:38 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894133588:10:22341:2; Sat, 02 May 98 19:26:28 BST Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1129048; 2 May 98 19:26 BST Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yVgzQ-0006dA-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:26:24 +0100 Date: Sat, 02 May 98 19:25:35 GMT Message-Id: <64662@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From:(Rob Hemmings) >Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that a lot of people on this mailing >list seemed to agree with the idea of putting money towards the future >development of Ovation when I suggested it some time ago. If you remember I >suggested an Ovation "supporters club". >I'd particularly suggest the thought that an attractive way of getting people >to contribute would be if they could then have some influence on the priority >for future developments. Well yes to all that. I've no problem with and in fact would welcome the idea of setting up a list of proposals for new features that can be voted on, and we'll then add the ones that come top to the program. As to funding. I'll have words with the powers that be. To some extent it comes down to handing over some work like running this list, the web site etc. to someone, along with some money for their trouble. I have heard that someone is proposing setting up a user group (akin to Pipeline for Pipedream) for OPro. From:(Richard Partridge) >In Impression it is possible to set up a style with nothing but the tab leader >string active. Any chance of this in Ovation Pro, if it's easier than the >greatly preferable solution of having the leadering string defined >independently for each tab? Well both are possible. The first is easier of course. Doing both would be a bad thing. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From r.k.partridge@argonet.co.uk Sat May 2 20:01:52 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64668 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 02 May 98 20:01:50 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894135191:10:28850:0; Sat, 02 May 98 19:53:11 BST Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1028635; 2 May 98 19:53 BST Received: from (193.130.250.167) [193.130.250.167] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yVhP8-0007hS-00; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:52:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Richard Partridge) Reply-To: rkpartridge@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sat, 2 May 98 (18:38:38 +0100) X-Organization: Argonet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: ArgoNet 'Voyager' Email Program 1.08 : ac Subject: Re: More on TABS (was Re: Various) Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: On Fri 1 May 98 (02:19:42 +0100), andy.ling@quantel.com, andy.ling@quantel.com wrote: > >>>>Having played some more, what I really want is for the lead character >>>>to be independent of the ruler. I also wanted to produce something like >>>> >>>>Some text ........... Some more text .............. >>>>Next line ........... More ........................ >>>>^ ^ ^ ^ >>>>1 2 3 4 >[snip..] > >>I'd like to revise my comments on this. Seems to me you can do what >>was wanted now. One problem is that if you just apply a tab effect >>it will be applied to the whole paragraph. So you have to have a >'bodytext' style which has the tab leadering in and which is applied >>to the whole paragraph. Then you have to have another style which >>does not have a leader character and has scope 'selection'. Then >>(laboriously) apply the non-leader style to the gaps. >........ >This worked fine if you enter in exactly what is above and nothing >else. As soon as I tried adding more text, frames, graphics, rulers >etc., etc. it all became very unpredictable. I agree that this works, but the tab positions all have to be identical in both styles, which is a bit awkward if you need to change them. In Impression it is possible to set up a style with nothing but the tab leader string active. Any chance of this in Ovation Pro, if it's easier than the greatly preferable solution of having the leadering string defined independently for each tab? Regards, Richard Partridge. -- r.k.partridge@argonet.co.uk From fccloke@argonet.co.uk Sun May 3 17:53:39 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64741 for ovationp-1 ; Sun, 03 May 98 17:53:38 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-1@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894207601:10:14768:0; Sun, 03 May 98 16:00:01 BST Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1014606; 3 May 98 15:59 BST Received: from (193.130.246.93) [193.130.246.93] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yW0F6-0002Q8-00; Sun, 3 May 1998 15:59:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Mr. F.C. Cloke) Reply-To: fccloke@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-1@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sun, 3 May 98 09:41:57 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: ovation-1@pilling.demon.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Hello There, (again) Ovation - 2.45 (11-Jun-97). Acornuser Isue-194, Version 2.46 is the latest update desktop publishing package -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ fccloke@argonet.co.uk From df.symes@argonet.co.uk Sun May 3 17:53:40 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64742 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 03 May 98 17:53:38 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894188273:12:04532:0; Sun, 03 May 98 09:37:53 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1204463; 3 May 98 9:37 GMT Received: from (193.130.245.80) [193.130.245.80] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yVvDF-0006o1-00; Sun, 3 May 1998 10:37:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: D.A.Symes To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 21:04:30 +0100 Message-ID: <484015f8a0df.symes@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Thesaurus Content-Type: text/plain Hi folks... Don't forget that "!WordWorks" Thesaurus can also be used with Ovation Pro. And while you cannot get words from an OvPro doc into the WW writable icon, unless you write 'em. Words from the Thesaurus can be auto inserted into an Ov Pro doc. I do wish everybody would use the *************** **************** *************** ******************* ************* ************* (insert own expletives if required) Global clipboard in their apps. Cheers Dave S -- _________________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... df.symes@argonet.co.uk Phone/Fax (01202) 432 489 ...Mem...Clan Acorn...Mem...BSFA and others... http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/df.symes News and mail with the help of Pluto V 1.08g From john@g1rcw.demon.co.uk Sun May 3 17:53:46 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64745 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 03 May 98 17:53:44 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894213407:10:22817:0; Sun, 03 May 98 17:36:47 BST Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1022772; 3 May 98 17:36 BST Received: from (g1rcw.demon.co.uk) [193.237.116.170] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yW1ko-0002zc-00; Sun, 3 May 1998 17:36:43 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by g1rcw.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Sun, 03 May 1998 16:36:38 GMT Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 17:36:35 +0100 From: John Chetwynd To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Rotating JPEG's Message-ID: Organization: RiscPC 200MHz X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60h I am note sure that my problem is connected to the fact that I recently upgraded to 2.49 or not. It may well not be a fault at If I create a frame and drop a JPEG into it, everything is OK. If I then try and rotate the frame, it all falls down. Depending "Application may have gone wrong, click continue to try and resume, or quit to stop application" Whatever I do results in a second message "Internal error abort on transfer at &038205C8" After this the computer locks up. If I try and drop a JPEG into an already rotated frame, I get the following error message from OvPro itself: "Transformed JPEG plotting is not supported by this version of the SpriteExtend module" I then have to close the document before I can do anything else, but at least the computer still works! I did RTFM to make sure that what I am doing is not verboten, but could not find anything that says I can't! Am I being a compl My Sprite Extension module appears to be V1.04, and the rest of my set up is a RiscPC SA200 with the new !Boot structure and wi -- John Chetwynd Acorn RiscPC SA200 MHz (A Windoze free zone) From djh39@thor.cam.ac.uk Sun May 3 17:53:46 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64744 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 03 May 98 17:53:41 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894194125:05:22480:4; Sun, 03 May 98 11:15:25 GMT Received: from hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0522450; 3 May 98 11:15 GMT Received: from djh39 (helo=localhost) by hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.91 #1) for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 0yVwjl-0005gd-00; Sun, 3 May 1998 12:15:17 +0100 Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 12:15:16 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Hawkins X-Sender: djh39@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Re: Spelling In-Reply-To: <19980503.020715.01@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Dave Hawkins On Sun, 3 May 1998, Ariancylch wrote: > Personally, I don't like finding "i.e." and "e.g." in written work. I Yes...but only really if you're writing prose. The real point I was making is that it is awkward if you want to do it (and when you've got word limits on your dissertation you want to do it). > feel they should be `expanded' into what they really mean (there are a > few exceptions, such as the likes of IRC). i.e. and e.g. belong in the There are rather a lot of exceptions. I'm a computer scientist, which means there are more than 3^26 abbreviations that I could need to use; it's part of my subject. Here's an example: The construction of a MIB is defined by the SNMP SMI RFC using ASN.1. Admittedly most these don't have punctuation in them, so I can just add them to my normal dictionary. However, if you start expanding things then things become unwieldy: The construction of a Management Information Base is defined by the Simple Network Management Protocol Structure of Information Request For Comments document using Abstract Syntax Notation One. I suspect that there are many other technical subjects where you just have to use the abbreviations because it makes things clearer. > abbreviations dictionary, not the spelling dictionary. > If nothing else it highlights the construction of the sentence, which > will often seem more than slightly bizarre. I'm not sure I agree with you on that one. It might be desirable to highlight to sentence construction, e.g. for emphasis. > > Per se, on the other hand, is a more interesting difficulty. Perhaps only slightly more difficult than the previous problems. In particular 'per' is actually a word so you need to implement some kind of backtracking feature. This problem actually becomes more apparent if you start expanding to get 'id est', etc. > > (I wouldn't use `Modula-3', either, but that's 'cause I only really use > -'s as hyphens) You'd have to if you wanted to talk about it. It's a name of a programming language and the hyphen is part of the name. In fact, this is sort of a bug because the problem is caused by the number (if it was a word the dictionary would accept it). Dave From m.r.devon@bath.ac.uk Sun May 3 17:53:49 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64746 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 03 May 98 17:53:47 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894195825:12:23581:3; Sun, 03 May 98 11:43:45 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk ([138.38.32.2]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0502535; 3 May 98 11:43 GMT Received: (qmail 28030 invoked from network); 3 May 1998 11:43:38 -0000 Received: from mary.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 3 May 1998 11:43:38 -0000 Received: from ppp17-annex.bath.ac.uk by mary.bath.ac.uk id aa10299; 3 May 98 12:43 BST Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:24:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Martin Devon Subject: Re:2.49 upgrade To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980502.021400.11@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: M.R. Devon Consulting Engineer, Bath X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] Before I take the plunge with 2.49, could it please be confirmed that it is suitable for use with a site licenced version 2.46? If yes, can it be applied directly to the installed versions on the client stations, or do I have to upgrade the master floppies and reinstall on each client? Martin Devon Stonar School From kh@waikato.ac.nz Sun May 3 22:52:42 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64761 for ovationp-l ; Sun, 03 May 98 22:52:41 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894227444:10:21581:0; Sun, 03 May 98 21:30:44 BST Received: from xena.cs.waikato.ac.nz ([130.217.241.20]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1021303; 3 May 98 21:30 BST Received: from freja (freja.cs.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.248.25]) by xena.cs.waikato.ac.nz (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA12318 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 08:30:27 +1200 (NZST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Keith Hopper To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 08:29:32 +1200 Message-ID: <48409c192ekh@waikato.ac.nz> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.6 Subject: Subscriptions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 03 May, Rob Hemmings wrote: > Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that a lot of people on this mailing > list seemed to agree with the idea of putting money towards the future > development of Ovation when I suggested it some time ago. If you remember I > suggested an Ovation "supporters club". I don't actually see it as a supporters club, but I would certainly be happy to pay an annual subscription of, say, =A320. kh From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Mon May 4 01:49:45 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64767 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 04 May 98 01:49:44 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894236237:12:21034:0; Sun, 03 May 98 22:57:17 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1507955; 3 May 98 22:57 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yW7h1-0004b0-00; Sun, 3 May 1998 23:57:11 +0100 Date: Sun, 03 May 98 23:55:40 GMT Message-Id: <64764@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From:(Mr. F.C. Cloke) >Ovation - 2.45 (11-Jun-97). >Acornuser Isue-194, Version 2.46 is the latest update desktop publishing >package That was a rather curious story in AU. About 12 months late. If you have 2.45 then you've got to send discs 1 & 2 back to Sheridan Williams at Beebug, he will give you 2.46, and you can then upgrade to 2.49 from the Beebug web site. There are only minute differences between 2.45 and 2.46. From: D.A.Symes >Don't forget that "!WordWorks" Thesaurus can also be used with Ovation Pro. >And while you cannot get words from an OvPro doc into the WW writable >icon, unless you write 'em. Words from the Thesaurus can be auto inserted >into an Ov Pro doc. I've not thought about this, but ISTR that communication between WW and Impression is via the 'impulse' protocol. Well now we have an Impulse applet... From: John Chetwynd >If I create a frame and drop a JPEG into it, everything is OK. If I then >try and rotate the frame, it all falls down. Depending >"Application may have gone wrong, click continue to try and resume, or quit to stop application" >Whatever I do results in a second message "Internal error abort on transfer >at &038205C8" After this the computer locks up. >If I try and drop a JPEG into an already rotated frame, I get the following >error message from OvPro itself: There are 2 issues here. Firstly RISC OS cannot plot rotated JPEG's - so if you try to do that by putting one in a frame and then rotating the image you will fail. The second point is that when you invoke irregular clipping either a genuinly irregular frame or equivalently a rotated rectangular frame, then OPro has to plot the JPEG to a sprite and then subsequnetly plot the sprite to screen. It seems there is a difference between 2.46 and 2.49. There are two ways of plotting a JPEG, either use the simple non-transformed plot routine which will never return an error (but will of course give incorrect results on rotated images), or use the full version which gives an error on rotated JPEG's. 2.46 uses the former strategy, 2.49 the latter. Alas 2.49 compounds this with not handling errors correctly whilst plotting to sprites. I have now fixed this bug. To some extent it doesn't matter because a rotated JPEG is not going to come out right anyway - obvious workaround is to convert to a sprite. From: Martin Devon >Before I take the plunge with 2.49, could it please be confirmed that it >is suitable for use with a site licenced version 2.46? >If yes, can it be applied directly to the installed versions on the client >stations, or do I have to upgrade the master floppies and reinstall on >each client? I can't give you an unequivocal answer to this. Sheridan Williams @ Beebug (sheridan@beebug.co.uk) should know, but since he's still new to the job, he'd probably tell you the same as me. So what I'd say is try it. You'll have to follow the instructios though, and the instructions say you have to install a copy of 2.46 from your release disc onto hard disc and then apply the patch to it. Given this you've nothing to lose - you're *not* going to apply a patch to your existing version. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk Mon May 4 13:57:44 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64803 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 04 May 98 13:57:42 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894275345:12:09684:1; Mon, 04 May 98 09:49:05 GMT Received: from llyr.cee.hw.ac.uk ([137.195.52.200]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0504581; 4 May 98 9:49 GMT Received: by tungat.cee.hw.ac.uk (Smail3.1.28.1 #116) id m0yWHrp-000BkCC; Mon, 4 May 98 10:49 WET DST Message-Id: From:(Matthew Hambley) Subject: Re: Subscriptions To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:48:59 +0100 (BST) In-Reply-To: <19980504.015305.48@pilling.demon.co.uk> from "Keith Hopper" at May 4, 98 01:53:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 988 > On 03 May, Rob Hemmings wrote: > > > Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that a lot of people on this mailing > > list seemed to agree with the idea of putting money towards the future > > development of Ovation when I suggested it some time ago. If you remember I > > suggested an Ovation "supporters club". > > I don't actually see it as a supporters club, but I would certainly be > happy to pay an annual subscription of, say, =A320. ^^^^^ Please don't use this quoted ADCII thing! I might be willing to pay 20ukp which is what you where sugesting but certainly not 320ukp which is what I first read it as. Nearly gave me a heart atack! :-) -- (\/)atthew Hambley ---------------------\ term : ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk \ "What's a network?" holiday : mhambley@arcade.demon.co.uk \ B.Gates, early '80s web : http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceemah/ \---------------------------------- From tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Mon May 4 13:57:48 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64805 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 04 May 98 13:57:47 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for OvationP-L@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894270967:10:13062:2; Mon, 04 May 98 09:36:07 BST Received: from post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.40]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1013041; 4 May 98 9:36 BST Received: from (mk-net.demon.co.uk) [194.222.12.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yWGjA-00061i-00; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:36:05 +0100 Message-ID: <24OE2CA2kKT1EwRf@mk-net.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 18:28:22 +0100 To: Ovation Maillist From: tony van der Hoff Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Subject: 2.49 buglets MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 Just upgraded from 2.48 to 2.49: Open a new document from the icon bar menu. Select 'Sideways'. Save as DDL file. Reload DDL file. 'Sideways' has disappeared. -- Tony van der Hoff | Mailto:tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Buckinghamshire, England | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From ovatnchat@barc.demon.co.uk Mon May 4 13:57:53 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64808 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 04 May 98 13:57:52 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894279642:12:03544:5; Mon, 04 May 98 11:00:42 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1203444; 4 May 98 11:00 GMT Received: from barc.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.11]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1013088; 4 May 98 10:59 GMT Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:35:36 +0100 (BST) From: MikeWilson Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L cc: john@circlesw.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: <19980504.015314.23@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] On Mon 04 May, David Pilling wrote: > From: D.A.Symes > > >Don't forget that "!WordWorks" Thesaurus can also be used with Ovation Pro. > >And while you cannot get words from an OvPro doc into the WW writable > >icon, unless you write 'em. Words from the Thesaurus can be auto inserted > >into an Ov Pro doc. > > > I've not thought about this, but ISTR that communication between WW and > Impression is via the 'impulse' protocol. Well now we have an Impulse > applet... Does that mean that we are nearing the stage when the !Impact range of databases will be able to merge directly into OP? Mike. -- Mike Wilson 0113-253-3722 mike@barc.demon.co.uk Proud to be a member of Wakefield Acorn Computer Group All opinions are mine alone - please do not blame WACG From janvredenb@access.ch Tue May 5 20:03:24 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64855 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 20:03:23 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894355667:10:01637:0; Tue, 05 May 98 09:07:47 BST Received: from atlantica.access.ch ([193.246.40.1]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1129865; 5 May 98 9:07 BST Received: from janvredenb.access.ch by atlantica.access.ch (8.8.5/INA-1.05pri) id KAA22327; Tue, 5 May 1998 10:07:41 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:07:11 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: Sryles and Function Keys To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980503.020709.80@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: JMvV: tel +41 41 3706124; fax +41 41 3706120 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.41] On Sun 03 May, Ray Dawson wrote: > On 02 May, John Waddell wrote: > > I have been fairly conservative in my use of styles, sticking with F2 > > and F4 to give me a choice, including bodytext, of 3 styles. > snip > > Before I do, out of interest, which keys do other OvPro users set up for > > styles? > > As all the straight function keys are used by OP (ie F3 save, F4 > search/replace etc) I use Shift-F1-11 (excepting S-F3 which is save text > on mine) for style setup. > > I used the same Shift-F keys as Publisher used F keys for styles, so S-F1 > is Main Heading, S-F2 Sub Heading etc. > > Ray D Question and answer are possibly valid but do forget one thing. Several OP applets also use key short-cuts. So it is more important to know which key short-cuts cannot be used for whatever reasons. Be it reserved by OvationPro, be it that someone created an applet with a key short-cut. As I do not have access to all existing applets the question arises whether subscribers to this mailing list can possibly somewhere find an overview of the existing key short-cuts. And possibly whether allocation of such key short-cuts can be coordinated. No. Mr Pilling, I am *not* asking you to do this as well! Comparison with function keys used by Publisher is not realistic. Many Acorn Users have Style. With Style the Shift function keys are used for the zooming factor. Fundamentally one must not try to transfer/copy key short-cuts from one program to another. If the resemblance is too close, Murphy's law will bang you on the head. So accept the differences knowing that with OvationP you have something special! Greetings JMvV -- JM van Vredenburch; tel +41 41 3706125 | Acorn Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) -- JM van Vredenburch; tel +41 41 3706125 | Acorn Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) From kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Tue May 5 20:03:29 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64857 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 20:03:27 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894360982:10:09578:3; Tue, 05 May 98 10:36:22 BST Received: from hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk ([147.143.102.8]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106082; 5 May 98 10:36 BST From: Mr J P Kerslake Date: Tue, 5 May 98 10:36:17 BST Message-Id: <6669.9805050936@hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk> Received: from ajax.sees.bangor.ac.uk by hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk; Tue, 5 May 98 10:36:18 BST To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Upgrade to 2.49 I could not get smart quots to work with 2.49. I have tried going back to my disc & re-loading version 1.02. Is there a more upto date version I should be using? If so where do I get it from. I have recently "emigrated" from yorkshire to north wales. Is there a Welish dictinary available for spellechecker/therasus. Being dysliexic I would find VERRY Verry usefule. John Percy Kerslake B.Sc, F.B.I.S., kerslake@SEES.bangor.ac.uk Webb= http://www.sees.bangor.ac.uk/~kerslake/bio.htm Pager=01426-235878 Dysliexia rules k o My spell checker dosen't work with my mail package I am writing this at work on a sun sparc station From 94crsf@eng.cam.ac.uk Tue May 5 20:06:20 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64891 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 20:06:19 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894360588:05:29030:0; Tue, 05 May 98 09:29:48 GMT Received: from spanner.eng.cam.ac.uk ([129.169.8.9]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1218348; 5 May 98 9:29 GMT Received: from tw700.eng.cam.ac.uk (via 94crsf@tw700.eng.cam.ac.uk [129.169.16.160]) by spanner.eng.cam.ac.uk with SMTP id KAA21041 for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 10:29:16 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:29:15 +0100 (BST) From: "C.R.S. Fludger" To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Anchored boxes In-Reply-To: <19980504.015314.23@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? I would like to produce documents with pictures |---------------| added at the side of the text. A bit like the | | box that is on the right. (That's if the mail | | system does not change the style of this | | message. ----------------- I can make a new box and drop a picture in, but if the text moves, the box does not. I could also Embed the object but this usually puts the box on a new line. If I don't have the object on a new line, the picture box projects upwards. i.e. ________________ | | | | | | blurb blurb blurb blurb ________________ Can the box be fixed to go downwards and text carry along like the example at the top i.e. anchored just after the word 'pictures'. I have a feeling I am going about this in the wrong way. Hope you can help. from Chris From tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Tue May 5 20:08:44 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64895 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 20:08:43 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for OvationP-L@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894368557:05:17552:19; Tue, 05 May 98 11:42:37 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1210563; 5 May 98 11:42 GMT Received: from (mk-net.demon.co.uk) [194.222.12.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yWg77-0006t3-00; Tue, 5 May 1998 12:42:26 +0100 Message-ID: <4doXfHAurvT1Ewjl@mk-net.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:41:34 +0100 To: Ovation Maillist From: tony van der Hoff Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Subject: Index Applet MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 Does anyone know of a fix for this: When Index creates a new chapter it is based on the last chapter of the document. If the master page for that chapter contains frames, then the index text is placed in the last frame of the page. If the frame is too small, you don't even get to see the index text. How can I get the text to be inserted in the main frame? -- Tony van der Hoff | Mailto:tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Buckinghamshire, England | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From alfchamings@ed.ac.uk Tue May 5 20:08:55 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64897 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 20:08:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894377924:12:11485:16; Tue, 05 May 98 14:18:44 GMT Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk ([129.215.166.17]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0513664; 5 May 98 14:17 GMT Received: from alfred.ed.ac.uk (dialup-132.publab.ed.ac.uk [129.215.38.132]) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA11234 for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 15:17:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:48:34 +0100 (BST) From: Alf Chamings Subject: Re: Subscriptions To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980504.015305.48@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] On Mon 04 May, Keith Hopper wrote: > On 03 May, Rob Hemmings wrote: > >> Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that a lot of people on this >> mailing list seemed to agree with the idea of putting money towards the >> future development of Ovation when I suggested it some time ago. If you >> remember I suggested an Ovation "supporters club". > > I don't actually see it as a supporters club, but I would certainly be > happy to pay an annual subscription of, say, =A320. > How much is =A320? And while we are on the subject, I would much appreciate an explanation of all these '=20' and the like which seem to appear in the middle of words in more and more posts of late. Alf -- mailto:AlfChamings@ed.ac.uk Health and Safety for the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 http://www.med.ed.ac.uk/hew/ for occupational and environmental health From rwatki@argonet.co.uk Tue May 5 22:47:01 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64926 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 22:47:01 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894395427:10:21921:0; Tue, 05 May 98 20:10:27 BST Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106809; 5 May 98 20:10 BST Received: from (193.130.250.211) [193.130.250.211] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yWn6b-0004jM-00; Tue, 5 May 1998 20:10:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Richard Watkinson) Reply-To: rwatki@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 5 May 98 20:09:18 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: Colour Supplement Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: I think I know the answer to this but am just checking. After tinkering about with the colours of an image in Opro am I correct in assuming that the altered image cannot be saved in it's new form? Yes I know I can "grab" it from paint! Richard -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ rwatki@argonet.co.uk From john@camelot.u-net.com Tue May 5 22:47:43 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64930 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 05 May 98 22:47:42 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894397640:05:17599:1; Tue, 05 May 98 19:47:20 GMT Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0517583; 5 May 98 19:47 GMT Received: from camelot.u-net.com [194.119.172.161] by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yWng6-0000Af-00; Tue, 5 May 1998 20:47:05 +0100 Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:48:19 +0100 (BST) From: john Subject: Template fields not found To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] I've just upgraded to 2.49. I know you've covered this before but please can you tell me how to overcome "Template fields not found"? Thanks John W Birkenshaw -- From the Birkenshaw household, Cranleigh From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed May 6 02:02:08 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA64940 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 02:02:07 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894404928:12:03079:8; Tue, 05 May 98 21:48:48 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1502346; 5 May 98 21:48 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yWpZp-0004nO-00; Tue, 5 May 1998 22:48:41 +0100 Date: Tue, 05 May 98 22:44:13 GMT Message-Id: <64924@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Mon May 4 13:57:48 1998 >Just upgraded from 2.48 to 2.49: >Open a new document from the icon bar menu. >Select 'Sideways'. >Save as DDL file. Reload DDL file. >'Sideways' has disappeared. It's not a new 2.49 bug. It is wrong, but it doesn't do much harm. From: MikeWilson >Does that mean that we are nearing the stage when the !Impact range of >databases will be able to merge directly into OP? Well the Impulse applet came out in December '97 along with 2.48. So since then you should have been able to use Impact with OPro. >cc: john@circlesw.demon.co.uk However his judgment on the issue is what matters. From: Mr J P Kerslake >I could not get smart quots to work with 2.49. I have tried going back >to my disc & re-loading version 1.02. Is there a more upto date version No, 1.02 is the latest, and... it works. So must be some sort of interaction. >I have recently "emigrated" from yorkshire to north wales. Is there a >Welish dictinary available for spellechecker/therasus. Ah well. I have converted my Spell program to work in Welsh. The catch is that they use a couple of characters not in the standard ranges. I've not yet copied over this extra code to OPro. The person to ask if you want a Welsh spell checker is. >>Colin G. Bennett (Programmer) >>MEU Cymru mailto:Colin@meucymru.co.uk From: "C.R.S. Fludger" >Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? No. From: Alf Chamings >How much is =A320? >And while we are on the subject, I would much appreciate an explanation of >all these '=20' and the like which seem to appear in the middle of words in I believe it's a way of inserting hi bit codes into the standard 7 bit character set. So = A 3 means code 0xA3==163, or a pound sign. I think we'd better draw a veil over further discussion in this direction, because it is off topic. From:(Richard Watkinson) >After tinkering about with the colours of an image in Opro am I correct in >assuming that the altered image cannot be saved in it's new form? Correct. From: john >I've just upgraded to 2.49. I know you've covered this before but >please can you tell me how to overcome "Template fields not found"? Open up !OvnPro and double click on !OvnResDir. If that fails then make sure the new Templates file has been copied over from the patch archive to your copy of 2.49. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From sveinung@medialab.no Wed May 6 13:43:33 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65018 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 13:43:32 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894448381:05:16270:0; Wed, 06 May 98 09:53:01 GMT Received: from ns.medialab.no ([194.234.248.97]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0516236; 6 May 98 9:53 GMT Received: from rambrent.medialab.no ([194.198.124.93]) by ns.medialab.no (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-44413U100L2S100) with SMTP id AAA110 for ; Wed, 6 May 1998 11:52:54 +0200 Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:51:44 +0100 (GMT+1) From:(Sveinung Tengelsen) Subject: Re: Anchored graphic frames To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980506.022157.91@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Network Computing as X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] > From: "C.R.S. Fludger" > >Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? > No. It'd be *massively* useful/timesaving/neat/cool - can it be done at all? Currently, flowing graphics frames are of limited use because of the inability to make text flow around it (like Mr. Fludger illustrated in his original article). Hey David, both Pagemaker (certainly) and Quark (allegedly) can do it (although they don't reach OP to the knees when it comes to frame/text-flow control), wink wink nudge nudge... 8) -- Regards, Sveinung W. Tengelsen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- mailto:pixeleye@sn.no | I have one illusion; http://www.sn.no/~pixeleye/Index.htm | I have no illusions. From djh39@thor.cam.ac.uk Wed May 6 13:43:37 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65020 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 13:43:36 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894450998:05:02662:0; Wed, 06 May 98 10:36:38 GMT Received: from hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1204951; 6 May 98 10:36 GMT Received: from djh39 (helo=localhost) by hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.91 #1) for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 0yX1Yw-00071U-00; Wed, 6 May 1998 11:36:34 +0100 Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:36:34 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Hawkins X-Sender: djh39@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: Dave Hawkins To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Re: Anchored boxes In-Reply-To: <19980506.022116.44@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Dave Hawkins On Wed, 6 May 1998, C.R.S. Fludger wrote: > Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? > > I would like to produce documents with pictures |---------------| > added at the side of the text. A bit like the | | > box that is on the right. (That's if the mail | | > system does not change the style of this | | > message. ----------------- As David said there's no OP feature which does this directly. However, what you could try is to create two embedded frames. The first is for your text and the second is for your graphic. These will then move about together. You'll need to set the text frame's Object->Modify...Inset to 0mm to make the text line up with the rest of the document and play around with the height of the next line to make the spacing look right. It's fiddly but should work. For an example look at http://thor.cam.ac.uk/~djh39/op (bottom of page). Dave From julian@southern.co.nz Wed May 6 13:43:42 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65022 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 13:43:40 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894457447:05:10757:0; Wed, 06 May 98 12:24:07 GMT Received: from [202.37.101.18] ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1505393; 6 May 98 12:23 GMT Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (pppd019.netaccess.co.nz [202.27.186.19]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA20398 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 00:24:23 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Wed,06 May 1998.23:51:05 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 23:47:40 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Subscriptions Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980506.022130.41@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980506.022130.41@pilling.demon.co.uk> alfchamings@ed.ac.uk (Alf Chamings) wrote: > And while we are on the subject, I would much appreciate an > explanation of all these '=20' and the like which seem to appear in > the middle of words in more and more posts of late. Most likely any '=' followed by a two digit (hexadecimal) number you see is caused by the sender using a MIME-Mail/News program. The reason they appear in this list is almost certainly because it's being run by a RISC OS program `MailList' that `helpfully' strips out information in the message header. Unfortunately, it's in the header that messages indicate they should be `MIME-decoded' and so you get to see the icky codes, instead of the proper characters. (For random reference `=20' is ASCII 32 which is a space) -- I won't use words again | Faith | May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant |manages| and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said | - JMS | places where you must walk From julian@southern.co.nz Wed May 6 13:43:45 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65023 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 13:43:43 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894457454:05:10801:1; Wed, 06 May 98 12:24:14 GMT Received: from [202.37.101.18] ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1505465; 6 May 98 12:24 GMT Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (pppd019.netaccess.co.nz [202.27.186.19]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA20403 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 00:24:37 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Thu,07 May 1998.00:02:59 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 23:53:58 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Spelling Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980504.015249.77@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980504.015249.77@pilling.demon.co.uk> djh39@cam.ac.uk (Dave Hawkins) wrote: > On Sun, 3 May 1998, Ariancylch wrote: > > > Personally, I don't like finding "i.e." and "e.g." in written work. I > Yes...but only really if you're writing prose. Personally, I apply it to all my writing :) However, some of this is going to end up being of a similar vein, so I'll keep my mouth shut on the `non-list-relevant' aspects... > > feel they should be `expanded' into what they really mean (there are a > > few exceptions, such as the likes of IRC). i.e. and e.g. belong in the > There are rather a lot of exceptions. I'm a computer scientist, which > means there are more than 3^26 abbreviations that I could need to use; > it's part of my subject. Here's an example: > > The construction of a MIB is defined by the SNMP SMI RFC using ASN.1. Some may consider my views as `splitting hairs', but I view them differently. `RFC' I liken to `kg' or `pt' - both real entities. `i.e.', on the other hand, I would liken to `poss.' (possibly). Again I concede it comes to personal preference as to where the line is drawn - I'm content with `am' and `pm'... > > Per se, on the other hand, is a more interesting difficulty. > Perhaps only slightly more difficult than the previous problems. In > particular 'per' is actually a word so you need to implement some kind of > backtracking feature. This problem actually becomes more apparent if you > start expanding to get 'id est', etc. If the spell-checker can handle hyphenated words (can it?) I'd have thought the extension to cases such as `per se' would be comparatively trivial. > > (I wouldn't use `Modula-3', either, but that's 'cause I only really use > > -'s as hyphens) > You'd have to if you wanted to talk about it. It's a name of a > programming language and the hyphen is part of the name. In fact, this > is sort of a bug because the problem is caused by the number (if it > was a word the dictionary would accept it). I claim that's opinion again: Can I talk about TeX without using a greek font? -- I won't use words again | Faith | May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant |manages| and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said | - JMS | places where you must walk From richard.vardy@argonet.co.uk Wed May 6 13:44:04 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65015 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 13:43:27 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894444635:10:21856:2; Wed, 06 May 98 09:50:35 BST Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1021708; 6 May 98 9:50 BST Received: from (193.130.246.107) [193.130.246.107] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yWztu-000611-00; Wed, 6 May 1998 09:50:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Richard S.Vardy) Reply-To: richard.vardy@argonet.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 5 May 98 13:32:33 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: Site licence & 2.49 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: >>Before I take the plunge with 2.49, could it please be confirmed that it >>is suitable for use with a site licenced version 2.46? >.If yes, can it be applied directly to the installed versions on the client >>stations, or do I have to upgrade the master floppies and reinstall on >>each client? >I can't give you an unequivocal answer to this. Sheridan Williams @ Beebug >(sheridan@beebug.co.uk) should know, but since he's still new to the job, >he'd probably tell you the same as me. >So what I'd say is try it. You'll have to follow the instructios though, >and the instructions say you have to install a copy of 2.46 from your >release disc onto hard disc and then apply the patch to it. Given this >you've nothing to lose - you're *not* going to apply a patch to your >existing version. When you upgrade the version goes from 2.46n to 2.48(or 2.49) without the n. I have ran Ovation over the network and it runs. Beebug however, tell me that only version 2.46 is supported until they can test 2.48. -- -- richard.vardy@argonet.co.uk. Risc PC StrongArm USR 28,800 37MB. Washington -Tyne & Wear. From tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Wed May 6 17:41:56 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65041 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 17:41:55 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for OvationP-L@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894464690:10:03745:3; Wed, 06 May 98 14:24:50 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1100937; 6 May 98 14:24 GMT Received: from (mk-net.demon.co.uk) [194.222.12.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yX57j-0004vn-00; Wed, 6 May 1998 15:24:44 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:34:29 +0100 To: Ovation Maillist From: Tony van der Hoff Subject: Nothing to print MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 OPro 2.49 Wwhen printing a multi-chapter double-sided document, with left pages only selected; I frequently get the message "Nothing to Print - Print Cancelled". I can work round this by judiciously selecting a range of pages to print. Selection by trial and error, but mostly based on chapter ranges. It seems the error occurs when the chapter ends on a right-hand page. I recall seeing something in the ml about this before; was there a fix? -- Tony van der Hoff | Mailto:tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Buckinghamshire, England | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Wed May 6 17:42:01 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65044 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 17:41:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894464740:12:04762:16; Wed, 06 May 98 14:25:40 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1204753; 6 May 98 14:25 GMT Received: from (mk-net.demon.co.uk) [194.222.12.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yX58N-0004yn-00; Wed, 6 May 1998 15:25:25 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:21:10 +0100 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk From: Tony van der Hoff Subject: Re: In-Reply-To: <19980506.022157.91@pilling.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 In message <19980506.022157.91@pilling.demon.co.uk>, ?@?.? writes >>Just upgraded from 2.48 to 2.49: >>Open a new document from the icon bar menu. >>Select 'Sideways'. >>Save as DDL file. Reload DDL file. >>'Sideways' has disappeared. > >It's not a new 2.49 bug. It is wrong, but it doesn't do much harm. > Ah... Message-ID: <19980412.005830.08@pilling.demon.co.uk> >>BTW is v2.49 still a test version? >I'm aware of no bugs. :-) Harmless, yes. Just thought you might like to know about it... -- Tony van der Hoff | Mailto:tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Buckinghamshire, England | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From df.symes@argonet.co.uk Wed May 6 18:51:48 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65077 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 18:51:47 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894476711:10:19946:1; Wed, 06 May 98 17:45:11 GMT Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk ([194.131.104.13]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1103832; 6 May 98 17:44 GMT Received: from (193.130.245.235) [193.130.245.235] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yX8FS-0007L3-00; Wed, 6 May 1998 18:44:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: D.A.Symes To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 18:44:17 +0100 Message-ID: <4842187a7edf.symes@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Index Applet In-Reply-To: <19980506.022123.52@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 06 May, tony van der Hoff wrote: > Does anyone know of a fix for this: > When Index creates a new chapter it is based on the last chapter of the > document. If the master page for that chapter contains frames, then the > index text is placed in the last frame of the page. If the frame is too > small, you don't even get to see the index text. How can I get the text > to be inserted in the main frame? Hi Tony, A quick note about your problem above... Before creating the Index. Add a new chapter after the last one in your document. Then go to Menu-Page-Edit Master pages (^E) The last masterpage should be the one that relates to this last added chapter. Remove any headers, footers etc. Close the master page and do the Index business, you should be okay. The Index will now create itself in a new chapter, after the one you've just created. (Leaving a blank chapter between the last page of the document and the index). The blank chapter can now be deleted. Works for me. But test it before you try it on anything important. Not the most elegant solution, but it was the best I could come up with when I first started using the Index applet ages ago. cheers Dave S -- _________________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... df.symes@argonet.co.uk Phone/Fax (01202) 432 489 ...Mem...Clan Acorn...Mem...BSFA and others... http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/df.symes News and mail with the help of Pluto V 1.08g From jack@snave.demon.co.uk Wed May 6 18:52:40 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65079 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 18:52:39 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894476863:05:08440:3; Wed, 06 May 98 17:47:43 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1223608; 6 May 98 17:47 GMT Received: from snave.demon.co.uk ([158.152.89.120]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1005823; 6 May 98 17:46 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jack Evans To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:09:44 +0100 Message-ID: <48418bfc68jack@snave.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Re: Subscriptions In-Reply-To: <19980504.015305.48@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 04 May, Keith Hopper wrote: > On 03 May, Rob Hemmings wrote: > > Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that a lot of people on this mailing > > list seemed to agree with the idea of putting money towards the future > > development of Ovation when I suggested it some time ago. If you remember I > > suggested an Ovation "supporters club". > I don't actually see it as a supporters club, but I would certainly be > happy to pay an annual subscription of, say, =A320. Whether a supporters club or not, the first priority is to make sure that OPro does not die of cash starvation. I would certainly support an annual payment of say 20ukp (if that's the correct translation of =A320, as I received it) as one solution. -- Jack Evans mailto: jack@snave.demon.co.uk From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed May 6 19:35:17 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65087 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 19:35:15 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894477154:10:28553:0; Wed, 06 May 98 17:52:34 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1028477; 6 May 98 17:52 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yX8Mk-0003od-00; Wed, 6 May 1998 18:52:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 06 May 98 18:34:34 GMT Message-Id: <65075@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: Tony van der Hoff >Wwhen printing a multi-chapter double-sided document, with left pages >only selected; I frequently get the message "Nothing to Print - Print >Cancelled". I think this will happen if you tell it to print pages that don't exist. If you tell it to print something which is not blank or null, and it does this, then it's a bug, and I'd like to hear more. >>>BTW is v2.49 still a test version? >>I'm aware of no bugs. In the context I meant I was not aware of any bugs in 2.49 which are not in all the previous versions. New bugs in other words. Although over the weekend someone pointed out the JPEG one, so that is no longer true. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From pete.bready@cableol.co.uk Wed May 6 21:06:36 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65094 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 06 May 98 21:06:35 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894480631:10:07576:0; Wed, 06 May 98 18:50:31 GMT Received: from mars.cableol.net ([194.168.4.224]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1118758; 6 May 98 18:50 GMT Received: from desdemona-107.cableol.net by mars.cableol.net; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Feb96-0403PM) id AA05215; Wed, 6 May 1998 19:50:13 +0100 Message-Id: <355121C4.28F@cableol.co.uk> Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 19:51:48 -0700 From: Pete Bready Organization: Home X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Changing master page columns and then undo hangs Opro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Opro hangs after the following sequence: 1. Load text into new doc 2. Page/Edit Master Page, then on master page Page/Edit Page Guidelines 3. Change no of columns from 1 to 2; OK 4. Close master page 5. Doc now shows two columns as expected 6 However then clicking on undo hangs Opro Only seems to happen if there's enough text to flow into second column. I'm on Opro 2.49, Riscos 3.7 etc From kh@waikato.ac.nz Thu May 7 00:47:35 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65098 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 00:47:33 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894498027:10:22898:1; Wed, 06 May 98 23:40:27 GMT Received: from xena.cs.waikato.ac.nz ([130.217.241.20]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1022811; 6 May 98 23:40 GMT Received: from freja (freja.cs.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.248.25]) by xena.cs.waikato.ac.nz (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA05484 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 11:40:19 +1200 (NZST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Keith Hopper To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 11:39:39 +1200 Message-ID: <4842390327kh@waikato.ac.nz> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.6 Subject: Subscriptions Content-Type: text/plain On 06 May, Alf Chamings wrote: > How much is =A320? Exactly twenty pounds sterling! What arrived at your end as something like =A320 left me as a pounds sterling sign and then the digits 20. You sent this back to me. Must be something in the mail system which says that the code for the poounds sterling mark is not in the Latin-1 position so it has to be sent as an equals sign followed by the hexadecimal code involved (for one octet that is!!). kh From andy.ling@quantel.com Thu May 7 13:38:46 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65172 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:38:45 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894529967:10:07146:1; Thu, 07 May 98 08:32:47 GMT Received: from pop3.hiway.co.uk ([195.12.1.130]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007060; 7 May 98 8:32 GMT Received: from mailsrv.quantel.com (bin@quantel-gw.hiway.co.uk [195.12.5.195]) by pop3.hiway.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13034 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 09:40:17 +0100 From: Received: SMTP by Quantel-Mailhub (8.8.3/3.1). id JAA08880 for INET:ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu, 7 May 1998 09:31:56 +0100 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <002565FD.0033771B.00@buffer1.HQ.quantel> Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:33:08 +0000 Subject: Undo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Organization: Quantel Ltd. I know this probably breaks the fundamentals of the way the undo system works, but there is a new feature I would like to see. Would it be possible to (probably as an option) only remember things that actually changed the document and not remember all the cursor movements, scrolling etc. Just a thought to keep Mr P busy for a month or two ;-) Andy Ling From don.lewis@bristol.ac.uk Thu May 7 13:38:50 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65173 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:38:47 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894537680:10:04167:3; Thu, 07 May 98 10:41:20 GMT Received: from dirc.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.51]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1105720; 7 May 98 10:41 GMT Received: from sis.bris.ac.uk by dirc.bris.ac.uk with SMTP-PRIV (PP) with ESMTP; Thu, 7 May 1998 11:41:08 +0100 Received: from dml1.pys.bristol.ac.uk (dml1.pys.bris.ac.uk [137.222.53.82]) by sis.bris.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA08946 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 11:38:53 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:38:51 +0100 (BST) From: "Dr. D. M. Lewis" Subject: Re: Anchored boxes To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <19980507.012519.64@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] On Thu 07 May, Dave Hawkins wrote: > On Wed, 6 May 1998, C.R.S. Fludger wrote: > > > Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? > > > > I would like to produce documents with pictures |---------------| > > added at the side of the text. A bit like the | | > > box that is on the right. (That's if the mail | | > > system does not change the style of this | | > > message. ----------------- > As David said there's no OP feature which does this directly. However, > what you could try is to create two embedded frames. The first is for your > text and the second is for your graphic. Yes this is possible and I have used this device. But it rarely happens that the graphic and associated text require the right frame sizes to eliminate substantial blank areas. As you cannot link into or between embedded frames, this method becomes far from easy. I have often wished for the facility suggested originally. Don Lewis Dr. D. M. Lewis Phone (+44) 117 9287813 Department of Physiology Secretaries' Office 9288105 Medical School Fax 9288923 University Walk, Bristol, BS8 1TD From djh39@thor.cam.ac.uk Thu May 7 13:38:52 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65174 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:38:51 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894537989:10:09490:1; Thu, 07 May 98 10:46:29 GMT Received: from hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.39]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1111185; 7 May 98 10:46 GMT Received: from djh39 (helo=localhost) by hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 1.91 #1) for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 0yXOBh-0001zV-00; Thu, 7 May 1998 11:46:05 +0100 Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:46:05 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Hawkins X-Sender: djh39@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Subject: Re: Spelling In-Reply-To: <19980507.012530.54@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Dave Hawkins On Thu, 7 May 1998, Ariancylch wrote: > > The construction of a MIB is defined by the SNMP SMI RFC using ASN.1. > > Some may consider my views as `splitting hairs', but I view them > differently. `RFC' I liken to `kg' or `pt' - both real entities. `i.e.', > on the other hand, I would liken to `poss.' (possibly). Again I concede > it comes to personal preference as to where the line is drawn - I'm > content with `am' and `pm'... I still need to include 'words' containing dots in the dictionary if I want to use them and have spell-checking working properly (what would you write for ASN.1?). That's where I'd like an improvement in OP. > > > Per se, on the other hand, is a more interesting difficulty. > > Perhaps only slightly more difficult than the previous problems. In > > particular 'per' is actually a word so you need to implement some kind of > > backtracking feature. This problem actually becomes more apparent if you > > start expanding to get 'id est', etc. > > If the spell-checker can handle hyphenated words (can it?) I'd have > thought the extension to cases such as `per se' would be comparatively > trivial. What I would assume happens in OP is: 1) Find the first word (terminator is given by whitespace or punctuation mark). 2) Check it in the dictionary. 3) Find next word 4) Goto (2) So what happens with 'per se': Finds 'per' and matches it in the dictionary. Finds 'se' and doesn't match it in the dictionary. We must backtrack to find 'per' again and try to match the whole phrase, but when do we stop trying to match words like this (think about if it's a real spelling error)? However, with hyphens we can first make the assumption that the whole hyphenated word is in the dictionary. Then if it isn't we can just check the separated words. To deal with spaces we could: 1) Assume all words might be part of a phrase, i.e. get two words, see if they match a dictionary entry, otherwise if the difference is on the space or later we get the next two words. But this is a little slow. 2) Have tagged entries in the dictionary: if a word is also the first word in a phrase then mark it so and check for this when spell-checking. This is a non-trivial change, in my opinion. > I claim that's opinion again: Can I talk about TeX without using a greek > font? OK, I'll concede that there my be alternative ways to write Modula-3. However, I think a sensible rule of thumb is that anything I can type using ASCII (which includes Modula-3) should be representatable in the dictionary. Incidentally, I didn't think TEX needed a greek font for its name, just a lowered E (unless of course your not talking about the typesetting program or they've changed the spelling on progression to LATEX). Dave From secpc@gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au Thu May 7 13:39:14 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65181 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:39:13 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894508784:12:08729:0; Thu, 07 May 98 02:39:44 GMT Received: from gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au ([129.96.250.33]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1528880; 7 May 98 2:39 GMT Received: from 009975 (sturt34.sturt.flinders.edu.au [129.96.238.34]) by gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SM Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980507121021.00917960@gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au> X-Sender: secpc@gamgee.cc.flinders.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 12:10:21 +0900 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk From: Carl Cepurneek Subject: Re: Anchored graphic frames In-Reply-To: <19980507.012512.43@pilling.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The discussion so far: >> >Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? >> No. .... >It'd be *massively* useful/timesaving/neat/cool - can it be done at all? .... I'm no applet writer but was wondering if... Define a style, say 'anchor' that is applied to the word just before or after the graphic frame. Write an applet that moves that frame accordingly. Maybe not immediatly, but at least at the click of an icon. Problems already: What happens if there is no room for the picture, eg the anhor word is too close to a border? What if the anchored frame now collides with another? Can there be sever al anchor styles, each with its own frame? There might have to be manual adjustments, but the scheme, if workable, might help for many situations. Let me know when it's ready :-) cpc From auric@ihug.co.nz Thu May 7 13:39:26 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65186 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:39:25 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894527470:05:27125:0; Thu, 07 May 98 07:51:10 GMT Received: from chong.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.10]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0527070; 7 May 98 7:51 GMT Received: from auric.ihug.co.nz (p53-max34.auck.ihug.co.nz [207.212.240.245]) by chong.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TA Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:51:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Frank Lester Subject: Thumbnail printing To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.45] I'm sure this has been covered before, but I can't recall the reply. I wish to print ID cards using a mail merge into OP. I have set up a page 72mm x 48mm with the required fields as a mail merge from a CSV file. I need to be able to print the different cards as thumbnails of 3x4 on each page for trimming and laminating. However I can only print either one merged card per sheet or using "all same" 12 copies of the same card on each sheet. How can I have 12 different ID cards on one sheet? -- Frank Lester "Omahanui" Waitangi Falls Road RD1 Waiuku,New Zealand From ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk Thu May 7 13:39:28 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65187 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:39:27 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894528123:12:29480:0; Thu, 07 May 98 08:02:03 GMT Received: from llyr.cee.hw.ac.uk ([137.195.52.200]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1502681; 7 May 98 8:02 GMT Received: by tungat.cee.hw.ac.uk (Smail3.1.28.1 #116) id m0yXLcu-000BkCC; Thu, 7 May 98 09:02 WET DST Message-Id: From:(Matthew Hambley) Subject: Autosave bug in 2.49? To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:01:59 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 458 I don't remember having seen this mentioned else where so here goes. I have created a document with autosave turned on but prompt turned off. However I still get a prompt asking if I wish to autosave. -- (\/)atthew Hambley ---------------------\ term : ceemah@cee.hw.ac.uk \ "What's a network?" holiday : mhambley@arcade.demon.co.uk \ B.Gates, early '80s web : http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceemah/ \---------------------------------- From goldline@abacusline.demon.co.uk Thu May 7 13:39:36 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65190 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 13:39:35 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894537030:12:26839:0; Thu, 07 May 98 10:30:30 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ah1226794; 7 May 98 10:30 GMT Received: from abacusline.demon.co.uk ([194.222.194.153]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2008483; 7 May 98 10:30 GMT Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:29:38 +0100 (BST) From: GoldLine Subject: Read only version of Ovation Pro To: David Pilling Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] What are the chances of a Read only version of Ovation Pro becoming available? Such a Read Only version would allow me to send Ovation Pro format documents to people who don't have Ovation Pro. It would probably encourage them to 'convert' to Ovation Pro. At present I have to send such documents in Fireworkz format because a Read Only version of Fireworkz has been made available by Colton Software. I have been sent a Read Only version of Ovation but it turns out that it is Ovation and not Ovation Pro - so my correspondent couldn't read my Ovation Pro document! I had to revert to Fireworkz. Fireworkz is very good for sending documents containing both text, graphics and tables - but I've been asked if Ovation Pro can do better! Gerald L Fitton From tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Thu May 7 15:50:47 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65213 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 15:50:46 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894551172:10:07827:0; Thu, 07 May 98 14:26:12 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007686; 7 May 98 14:26 GMT Received: from (mk-net.demon.co.uk) [194.222.12.18] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yXRca-0004jz-00; Thu, 7 May 1998 15:26:04 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:11:16 +0100 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk From: Tony van der Hoff Subject: Nothing to print In-Reply-To: <19980507.012603.43@pilling.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 In message <19980507.012603.43@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling writes > >>Wwhen printing a multi-chapter double-sided document, with left pages >>only selected; I frequently get the message "Nothing to Print - Print >>Cancelled". > >I think this will happen if you tell it to print pages that don't exist. >If you tell it to print something which is not blank or null, and it >does this, then it's a bug, and I'd like to hear more. > As usual, the situation isn't that clear-cut. I'm not asking for a specific page range, just 'all left-hand pages' ('all pages' and 'left' with no other buttons selected in the print dbox). There are two chapters, each of which end on a right-hand page. If I hit Print, I get the error. I presume it's trying to print the (non-existant) left-hand pages at the end of the chapters, because if I select a specific page-range containing *precisely* the existant page numbers, it works fine. Printing 'all pages both sides' works fine too, with the non-existant pages omitted. Yes, I agree it's a bug, but easily worked around, so not urgent. I'll send you the document if it helps, but I think the description should be sufficient. -- Tony van der Hoff | Mailto:tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk Buckinghamshire, England | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From mlb1@ukc.ac.uk Thu May 7 18:58:49 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65251 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 18:58:47 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894563858:12:14648:0; Thu, 07 May 98 17:57:38 GMT Received: from mercury.ukc.ac.uk ([129.12.21.10]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1214628; 7 May 98 17:57 GMT Received: from kiwi.ukc.ac.uk by mercury.ukc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 7 May 1998 18:57:28 +0100 Received: from pcbi10 by kiwi.ukc.ac.uk (SMI-8.6/UKC-2.14) id SAA12450; Thu, 7 May 1998 18:57:26 +0100 Message-ID: <3551F683.1F@ukc.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:59:32 +0100 From: MattLB Organization: UKC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Changing master page columns and then undo hangs Opro References: <19980507.012609.07@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pete Bready wrote: > > Opro hangs after the following sequence: > 1. Load text into new doc > 2. Page/Edit Master Page, then on master page Page/Edit Page Guidelines > 3. Change no of columns from 1 to 2; OK > 4. Close master page > 5. Doc now shows two columns as expected > 6 However then clicking on undo hangs Opro > > Only seems to happen if there's enough text to flow into second column. > > I'm on Opro 2.49, Riscos 3.7 etc Is the text file you're starting with a DOS one filetyped as text? I reported the same bug in 2.46 and discovered that it only occured if the file was filetyped as RISCOS text, but was originally a PC text file. To produce the same effect load any RISCOS text file into Zap, change it to a DOS file and save it. This file, used as you describe above, will now cause the hanging you mention. I haven't done the upgrade to 2.49 yet, so I don't know if it's exactly the same thing. MattLB From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu May 7 19:43:58 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65260 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 19:43:57 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894566676:10:28801:0; Thu, 07 May 98 18:44:36 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1028792; 7 May 98 18:44 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yXVei-00008d-00; Thu, 7 May 1998 19:44:32 +0100 Date: Thu, 07 May 98 19:14:24 GMT Message-Id: <65254@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: >Would it be possible to (probably as an option) only remember >things that actually changed the document and not remember all >the cursor movements, scrolling etc. >Just a thought to keep Mr P busy for a month or two ;-) The undo system is probably the most complicated code in the program. You have to decide which way to do it. For example one choice was not to undo 'view' changes. So it does not save the scroll position, or the number of views you have open, or zooms. But another decision was to save the 'tool' state. So OPro's undo code knows you inserted a character, but it does not save data saying where, instead it relies on the position of the caret always being correct, because that is inside the undo/redo loop. Making major changes is inconceivable. From: "Dr. D. M. Lewis" >>> Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? Just out of interest, on the packages that have this feature, do the anchored frames have any effect on text flow around themselves? (something of a trick question because if they do it will in general be possible to create text flows that have to be iterated and may never converge). From: Frank Lester >I'm sure this has been covered before, but I can't recall the reply. >I wish to print ID cards using a mail merge into OP. I have set up a page >72mm x 48mm with the required fields as a mail merge from a CSV file. I need See the document on making use of the new mail merge features, available from the Upgrade page on www.beebug.com. From:(Matthew Hambley) >I have created a document with autosave turned on but prompt turned off. >However I still get a prompt asking if I wish to autosave. Turning off warnings does not turn off all warnings. Important ones are (intentionally) still brought to your attention. From: GoldLine >What are the chances of a Read only version of Ovation Pro becoming >available? A cut down read only version? No chance. A demo version? Much better. There is a demo (non-saving) version of OPro already. However it has only been made available to dealers. The worry we have had about demo versions is that in a few years time, people will still have CD's with these things on, and will judge the program by how it was previously. Probably something for you to talk to Sheridan Williams about. From: Tony van der Hoff >I'm not asking for a specific page range, just 'all left-hand pages' >('all pages' and 'left' with no other buttons selected in the print >dbox). There are two chapters, each of which end on a right-hand page. >If I hit Print, I get the error. >I presume it's trying to print the (non-existant) left-hand pages at the I guess though that you have to be able to print completely blank pages. Typically you will print all the left hand pages then turn the paper over and print the right hand sides. You need to feed the pages that are blank through the printer - it's easier that way. A little experiment reveals that Acorn drivers raise the error above, and CC ones don't. Hmm. maybe I should put something invisible on such bits of paper. From: MattLB >> Opro hangs after the following sequence: >> 6 However then clicking on undo hangs Opro >Is the text file you're starting with a DOS one filetyped as text? I >reported the same bug in 2.46 and discovered that it only occured if the It's a known problem, an example of a class of known problems. It doesn't depend on DOS filetypes being involved. From: Roger Mayne >I have discovered a bug concerning colour separations in 2.49 Groan, I plead extremely guilty. I will fix it. I guess the source is a change of font at the same place as a change of colour and implicitly a change of overprint. Since there is no transparent font painting bits of the string have to be converted to moves... David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From darprint@btinternet.com Thu May 7 19:44:08 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65262 for ovationp-l ; Thu, 07 May 98 19:44:06 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894565868:12:27738:6; Thu, 07 May 98 18:31:08 GMT Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0524694; 7 May 98 18:31 GMT Received: from darprint.btinternet.com [195.99.48.171] by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0yXVRE-0004V8-00; Thu, 7 May 1998 19:30:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Roger Mayne To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:31:04 +0100 Message-ID: <4842a09898darprint@btinternet.com> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.7 Subject: Colour separation problem 2.49 Content-Type: text/plain Hi all, I have discovered a bug concerning colour separations in 2.49, which came to light only after we had made all films and printing plates. The reason it was only noticed at this stage was because on screen, in full colour, it appeared as it should. The problem concerned a white reversed word in the middle of a sentence where all the other words were black and this was on top of a half-tone. The white word was in a different typeface to the rest of the sentence because it needed to be stressed. The design of the job necessitated that the black text was set to overprint because of background colours and it was essential that the magenta, process blue and yellow did not knock out, but the white, of course, had to knock out. However, when viewing the films the white word had reverted to the typeface of the WORD preceding it! After two days experimenting, it was discovered that it was the SPACE before the white word that was causing the problem. In order for you to understand what I'm trying to explain, try this:- 1. Open a new document. 2. Create a magenta filled frame. 3. Place another transparent frame over the magenta frame. 4. Type in three words. 5. In 'Edit colour' box, set the black to overprint. 6. Highlight the middle word and change this to a different typeface and colour of white - overprint set to off. 7. Then scroll through the separations to the magenta sep. and you will find the white typeface has reverted to the typeface of the preceding word. 8. Now highlight the space preceding the white word and change this to white with overprint off. You will now find that the magenta separation shows the correct typeface! So the work-around is very easy - just change the space preceding the white word to white, overprint off, and you should save yourself much expense in films. Please note that this problem does not occur if you type the words directly into the magenta frame. Regards Roger -- Roger Mayne mailto:darprint@btinternet.com Darprint, Lithographic Printers Unit 21, r/o 8-14 St. Vincents Road, Dartford, Kent, DA1 1XZ Tel: 01322 227574 Fax: 01322 291237 From kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Fri May 8 13:49:42 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65358 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 08 May 98 13:49:41 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894619158:10:07816:1; Fri, 08 May 98 09:19:18 GMT Received: from hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk ([147.143.102.8]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1100573; 8 May 98 9:19 GMT From: Mr J P Kerslake Date: Fri, 8 May 98 10:19:11 BST Message-Id: <14033.9805080919@hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk> Received: from aphrodite.sees.bangor.ac.uk by hermes.sees.bangor.ac.uk; Fri, 8 May 98 10:19:11 BST To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Read only version of Ovation Pro > > Fireworkz is very good for sending documents containing both > text, graphics and tables - but I've been asked if Ovation Pro > can do better! > Gerald L Fitton > What about an aplet to insert an active spread sheet into an Ov Pro window? ie an hot link to fireworks etc. From martinv@ucs.de Fri May 8 18:51:12 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65380 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 08 May 98 18:51:11 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894643379:10:05880:1; Fri, 08 May 98 16:02:59 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1005814; 8 May 98 16:02 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA14697 for ; Fri, 8 May 1998 18:02:50 +0200 Message-Id: <199805081602.SAA14697@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 08 May 1998 09:11:57 GMT Subject: Re: Various MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >From: GoldLine > >>What are the chances of a Read only version of Ovation Pro becoming >>available? > >A cut down read only version? No chance. A demo version? Much better. > >There is a demo (non-saving) version of OPro already. However it has only >been made available to dealers. The worry we have had about demo versions is >that in a few years time, people will still have CD's with these things on, >and will judge the program by how it was previously. Just my humble opinion but a viewer/demo/whatnot is a mighty powerful thing to have. On the Acorn market small and 'invisible' as it is one is better off having an ageing demo but nothing. We had the Ovation Pro demo erroneously on our web-site for download and it earned 253 hits and it surely was the reason for a lot of people --- buying the actual thing even if they already had Impression. At least over here in Germany people do not have a fair chance seeing OP in real life where there is so few dealers left. The rest is hearsay, a back-issue of magazine xyz or rumours in general. Our experience is (was) that nothing else creates more sales but the viewer/demo/whatnot thingy. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Fri May 8 18:51:50 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65383 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 08 May 98 18:51:49 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894643340:12:16435:8; Fri, 08 May 98 16:02:20 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1216460; 8 May 98 16:02 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA14636 for ; Fri, 8 May 1998 18:02:04 +0200 Message-Id: <199805081602.SAA14636@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 08 May 1998 07:43:28 GMT Subject: Re: Thumbnail printing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >I'm sure this has been covered before, but I can't recall the reply. >I wish to print ID cards using a mail merge into OP. I have set up a page >72mm x 48mm with the required fields as a mail merge from a CSV file. I need >to be able to print the different cards as thumbnails of 3x4 on each page for >trimming and laminating. However I can only print either one merged card per >sheet or using "all same" 12 copies of the same card on each sheet. How can I >have 12 different ID cards on one sheet? Well You can try to do it like we do our Virus-Killer disc labels. Each label has lots of blurb on it and a serial number wich goes into the only flowing story on the label. We prepare a text-file with serial-numbers one per line and the document creates a page per one number. Printing that with "All same" off and "Thumbnails" gets us sheets with numbered labels. We just do not use mail-merge but have a frame just big enough for one entity because OP needs the pages ready before thumbnailing them, whereas mail-merging wants to print each entity as a page. I hope this was clear enough. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From martinv@ucs.de Fri May 8 18:51:54 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65385 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 08 May 98 18:51:52 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894643383:05:28999:0; Fri, 08 May 98 16:03:03 GMT Received: from linteuto.teuto.de ([194.77.23.26]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1520356; 8 May 98 16:03 GMT Received: from 194.77.123.114 (shelley.UCS.De [194.77.123.114] (may be forged)) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA14694 for ; Fri, 8 May 1998 18:02:48 +0200 Message-Id: <199805081602.SAA14694@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: 08 May 1998 08:27:51 GMT Subject: Re: Various MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 In your earlier message you wrote: >From: "Dr. D. M. Lewis" > >>>> Is there any way to anchor picture objects at a particular place in text? > >Just out of interest, on the packages that have this feature, do the >anchored frames have any effect on text flow around themselves? >(something of a trick question because if they do it will in general >be possible to create text flows that have to be iterated and may >never converge). Wow, that's just it, we could have the animated or even fractal document. The never ending story just by a click with the mouse. You could even beat S.King by pages ;-) Actually I did propose something similar to someone from CC some years ago just to get a frightened look. What I wanted was a graphic in one story to flow with a paragraph beginning in another. Or more generally some means to synchronize paragraphs in different flowing stories automagically. Which does (I figure) imply that the frames did not interact. Imagine somthing like this: The main text frame A frame with outlines etc. |bla bla bla bla bla bla bla | | | |bla bla. | | | | | | | |X. The great heading | | Great | The icon and the heading |Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla | | icon | should always align |bla bla bla bla bla bla | | | |bla bla bla bla bla bla bla | | | ... Regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri May 8 21:08:38 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65418 for ovationp-l ; Fri, 08 May 98 21:08:36 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894653299:12:15522:18; Fri, 08 May 98 18:48:19 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1215469; 8 May 98 18:48 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yXsBe-0005Ya-00; Fri, 8 May 1998 19:48:02 +0100 Date: Fri, 08 May 98 19:17:33 GMT Message-Id: <65402@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: Martin Vethake >Just my humble opinion but a viewer/demo/whatnot is a mighty powerful >thing to have. On the Acorn market small and 'invisible' as it is >one is better off having an ageing demo but nothing. >We had the Ovation Pro demo erroneously on our web-site for download >and it earned 253 hits and it surely was the reason for a lot of people Probably one bloke who downloaded it 253 times, and then told all his mates it was no good because he'd not been able to get it working. Seriously I think we'll do this now. How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for increasing sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the solution lies in selling more copies rather than charging current users for support. >What I wanted was a graphic in one story to flow with a paragraph beginning >in another. Or more generally some means to synchronize paragraphs in >different flowing stories automagically. Not a bad idea, and doable, as long as one story is the master and the rest follow it. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From pblenkinsop@moose.co.uk Sat May 9 13:59:52 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65483 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 09 May 98 13:59:48 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894699443:12:02582:0; Sat, 09 May 98 07:37:23 GMT Received: from moose.co.uk ([195.166.48.17]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0506347; 9 May 98 7:37 GMT Received: from pblenkinsop.moose.co.uk (195.166.48.232) by moose.co.uk with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1); Sat, 9 May 1998 08:33:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Peter Blenkinsop To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:15:57 +0100 Message-ID: <48436a7595pblenkinsop@moose.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 1.08g for RISC OS 3.5 Subject: Re: Various In-Reply-To: <19980509.021117.04@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain On 09 May, David Pilling wrote: > How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for increasing > sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the solution lies in > selling more copies rather than charging current users for support. You need an Impression loader to persuade users, in schools for example, to move to OP. I am in one such school. -- I'm going to have an anti-spam remove so complicated that only very, very bright people will be able to undersand and reply to me. Peter Blenkinsop Acorn RiscPC/Pluto/ANT From pete.bready@cableol.co.uk Sat May 9 13:59:54 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65486 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 09 May 98 13:59:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894701031:12:07828:40; Sat, 09 May 98 08:03:51 GMT Received: from mars.cableol.net ([194.168.4.224]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1504588; 9 May 98 8:03 GMT Received: from desdemona-100.cableol.net by mars.cableol.net; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Feb96-0403PM) id AA19866; Sat, 9 May 1998 09:03:46 +0100 Message-Id: <35547EC7.1C30@cableol.co.uk> Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 09:05:27 -0700 From: Pete Bready Organization: Home X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Read only version of Ovation Pro References: <19980509.021052.28@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr J P Kerslake wrote: > > > > > Fireworkz is very good for sending documents containing both > > text, graphics and tables - but I've been asked if Ovation Pro > > can do better! > > Gerald L Fitton > > > > What about an aplet to insert an active spread sheet into an Ov Pro window? > ie an hot link to fireworks etc. > > To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@pilling.demon.co.uk > with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l > To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l That would be great for tables etc - however I doubt it could be easily effected. On the other hand, if Fireworkz could produce embedded Drawfile output... From goldline@abacusline.demon.co.uk Sat May 9 17:04:13 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65498 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 09 May 98 17:04:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894722817:05:28602:10; Sat, 09 May 98 14:06:57 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1220059; 9 May 98 14:06 GMT Received: from abacusline.demon.co.uk ([194.222.194.153]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2018454; 9 May 98 14:06 GMT Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 14:57:48 +0100 (BST) From: GoldLine Subject: Re: Demo version of Ovation Pro To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: <19980509.021117.04@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Dear David I am convinced that a Demo version of Ovation Pro will help sales in both the long and the short term. You say: > Seriously I think we'll do this now. (ie make a Demo version available) Good! The sooner the better. > How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for increasing > sales, do let us know. Because as far as I can see the solution lies in > selling more copies rather than charging current users for support. There always comes a time when you can sell no more copies because the market is saturated. At that time (with a product as good as Ovation Pro) you will have a large dedicated following who still want user support but you will not be making the Sales required to finance it. This has happened recently to PipeDream and Fireworkz. There is a large dedicated following who have paid a lot over the years for the program they have but the number of New Sales has declined to the point where there is not enough revenue from these new sales to support the cost of further developments. The Colton Software programmers are now working as freelance (part time) rather than for a salary from Colton Software and the further development of these products is being paid for out of user support revenues. It is my view that Ovation Pro has not yet penetrated the market in the way that PipeDream and Fireworkz did. Hence, although financing development out of user support should not be ruled out in the long term it is not required yet. Ovation Pro is still in the 'Expansion' phase of its life cycle and so further penetration of the market is not only possible but a relatively cheap way of generating revenue. The Acorn market is different from what we might call the 'Windows machine' market. People with Acorn machines expect their hardware and software to last much longer than similar products for Windows. Because of this they will not buy any Acorn product unless they believe that it will have a long life. Ovation Pro deserves to have a long life because it is a good product and has the potential to become an even better one. However, people will not buy it (even now they won't) if they think that user support will evaporate once the market is saturated (ie when the number of new sales drops off). Hence you must plan for that time now if you are to continue to make new sales now. One final point. During the time that the financing of development of a product depends solely on revenues from new sales it is better to penetrate the market slowly (in order to provide the revenues to feed the development) rather than have a nine-day-wonder which yields huge cash flows over a relatively short period of time. It is inadvisable to go for maximum sales when there is little or no competition but better to leave some potential sales for later so that the development cost can continue to be financed from new sales as long as possible! It is when the market is saturated that you will need to finance program support by charging for user support. Gerald -- GoldLine From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Sat May 9 17:32:19 1998 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65505 for ovationp-l ; Sat, 09 May 98 17:32:18 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894729897:10:14210:0; Sat, 09 May 98 16:04:57 GMT Received: from post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1118412; 9 May 98 16:04 GMT Received: from (pilling.demon.co.uk) [158.152.9.39] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yYC7H-0004wA-00; Sat, 9 May 1998 17:04:51 +0100 Date: Sat, 09 May 98 14:31:08 GMT Message-Id: <65496@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) Reply-To: david@pilling.demon.co.uk To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Various X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 From: Alf Chamings >But a spelling dictionary must surely be word based. If you allowed spaces, >or other punctuation marks, to be part of words, how could it recognise the >beginnings and ends of words? Instead of a simple (in programming terms) Not that I'm going to rush out and do it, but I rather fancied the idea that you could have phrases in the dictionary. Words that only were allowed if one followed the other. You might add spotting errors like this to some other program, a 'fluff' like one. From: Stephen Wright >How do I prevent the 'Ovation Pro Styles', 'Page Palette' and 'Cols' >windows being opened automatically? Usually they have a variable in the main !Applet.Library.Script file that you can change the initial value of; e.g. ColPal int colpal_palette = 1; Change the 1 to a 0. e.g. PagePal int pagepal_toolbox = 1; again change 1 to 0. and StylePal int stylepal_palette = 1; From: Steven Pampling >> How desperate can you get... if anyone has any other ideas for increasing >> sales >Import/export facilities for Impression (including graphics), other Acorn >text processor programs, and of course the ever present request for >import/export of files from the Microsoft world. Well we have tried to do all this, and it may yet come to pass. Seemingly the days when people were queueing up to write software for Beebug have gone. From: Alan Muscat >Convince Mike Williams of Acorn Publisher to produce his mag using OPro >instead of Impression, and methinks that many of his subscribers who are >Imp users will follow suit. Actually there may be some startling news in this direction soon. Not connected with Acorn Publisher I hasten to add. This is the argument that if I finished the professional side of things, large images etc. then the high end users would move over, and although there are not many of them, others would follow. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From julian@southern.co.nz Mon May 11 19:29:57 1998 Received: from relay-6.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA65523 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 11 May 98 19:29:54 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 894749855:12:03687:0; Sat, 09 May 98 21:37:35 GMT Received: from cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz ([202.37.101.18]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0512369; 9 May 98 21:37 GMT Received: from illusio.milieu.org.nz (ppp137158.netaccess.co.nz [202.37.101.158]) by cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA09327 for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 09:37:51 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost at Sun,10 May 1998.09:41:35 by illusio.milieu.org.nz (Acorn Risc PC/RISC OS 3.7) via SMTPTransport 0.02 (10 Jan 1998) GSD Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 09:26:59 +1200 From: Ariancylch To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Spelling Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980508.013625.78@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body X-Mailer: Messenger v1.38 for RISC OS X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21alpha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60c In message <19980508.013625.78@pilling.demon.co.uk> djh39@cam.ac.uk (Dave Hawkins) wrote: > On Thu, 7 May 1998, Ariancylch wrote: > > > > The construction of a MIB is defined by the SNMP SMI RFC using ASN.1. > > > > Some may consider my views as `splitting hairs', but I view them > > differently. `RFC' I liken to `kg' or `pt' - both real entities. > > `i.e.', on the other hand, I would liken to `poss.' (possibly). > > Again I concede it comes to personal preference as to where the line > > is drawn - I'm content with `am' and `pm'... > I still need to include 'words' containing dots in the dictionary if I > want to use them and have spell-checking working properly (what would > you write for ASN.1?). That's where I'd like an improvement in OP. I guess this begins to lead to the `where do you draw the line' question, as I'd say ``Special case (.)*'' A semi-common approach to this I've seen is an `ignore words all in caps' option, and similar things for words with starting caps in the middle of sentences and a few other `simple' rules that likely spring to mind. > > > > Per se, on the other hand, is a more interesting difficulty. > > > Perhaps only slightly more difficult than the previous problems. > > > In particular 'per' is actually a word so you need to implement > > > some kind of backtracking feature. This problem actually becomes > > > more apparent if you start expanding to get 'id est', etc. > > > > If the spell-checker can handle hyphenated words (can it?) I'd have > > thought the extension to cases such as `per se' would be > > comparatively trivial. > What I would assume happens in OP is: > 1) Find the first word (terminator is given by whitespace or punctuation > mark). > 2) Check it in the dictionary. > 3) Find next word > 4) Goto (2) > > So what happens with 'per se': > Finds 'per' and matches it in the dictionary. > Finds 'se' and doesn't match it in the dictionary. We must backtrack > to find 'per' again and try to match the whole phrase, but when do we > stop trying to match words like this (think about if it's a real > spelling error)? > > However, with hyphens we c