From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 1 18:46:11 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51870 for opro ; Mon, 01 Dec 97 18:46:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 880967794:12:12671:32; Mon, 01 Dec 97 09:16:34 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0600252; 1 Dec 97 9:15 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ac1009161; 1 Dec 97 9:14 GMT From: michael turner Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:10:30 +0000 Organization: Subject: OvPro supporters club To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971201.091030.70@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:39:03 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Sounds good to me - count me in when it happens. Mike. -- Michael Turner To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 1 18:46:16 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51872 for opro ; Mon, 01 Dec 97 18:46:14 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 880967796:05:25495:81; Mon, 01 Dec 97 09:16:36 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab0600430; 1 Dec 97 9:15 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ae1009161; 1 Dec 97 9:15 GMT From: michael turner Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:10:11 +0000 Organization: Subject: OvPro supporters club To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971201.091011.08@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:43:14 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c It sounds like a good idea to me at about =A320 per annum. So long as I was assured that work was ongoing then updates need not be regular - but please lets have them via the net if possible, its so much more civilised! Mike. --=20 Michael Turner To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 1 18:46:25 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51875 for opro ; Mon, 01 Dec 97 18:46:22 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 880967802:05:25553:77; Mon, 01 Dec 97 09:16:42 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0600879; 1 Dec 97 9:16 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ah1009161; 1 Dec 97 9:15 GMT From: Dr A G Gray Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:11:11 +0000 Organization: Subject: Auto-hyphenation To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971201.091111.39@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Nov 97 17:11:56 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Have I missed something, or is there a problem with hyphenation of words at the end of a line when there is a forward slash / in a 'compound' word. Try as a might, I cannot get orchestral/instrumental or such like to split at the end of a line. Any comments? -- Alan.Gray@argonet.co.uk Dr A.G.Gray. Great Warley, Essex. UK http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/alan.gray N 51 33'58" E 00 17'35" G3XQU (DXCC=323/328) Acorn RiscPC S/A 202MHz To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 1 18:46:30 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51877 for opro ; Mon, 01 Dec 97 18:46:29 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 880967862:05:26046:24; Mon, 01 Dec 97 09:17:42 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0601181; 1 Dec 97 9:16 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ai1009161; 1 Dec 97 9:16 GMT From: Hank van der Wijngaart Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:11:31 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Supporters Group To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971201.091131.75@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:13:31 +1000 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c At 09:40 28/11/97 +0000, you wrote: > This would get my support. > > My support too...... dont want to loose a good thing... wow i been > using Ovation since its first release... Likewise Regards, Hank ================================================================ Using a RiscPC! Powered by a 200MHz StongARM processor. A fast and powerful 32 bit RISC machine. and now running Win95 with Office 97 inside the RiscOS desktop! ================================================================ To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 1 18:46:37 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51879 for opro ; Mon, 01 Dec 97 18:46:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 880967876:12:13146:81; Mon, 01 Dec 97 09:17:56 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ae0601623; 1 Dec 97 9:17 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id aq1009161; 1 Dec 97 9:17 GMT From: Impe Antonius Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:12:14 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Future releases To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971201.091214.50@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 02:47:26 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Mon 24 Nov, Rob Hemmings wrote: > I've been thinking, following the various comments made in this mailing list > about version 2.47 and beyond. It would be a great shame if future sales were > not sufficient to allow Beebug/David Pilling to keep developing OvationPro and > it ended up like Impression. I'm sure all subscribers to this mailing list > would agree! > > However, to keep development going it must be funded from somewhere. The size > of the Acorn market may mean that new sales will not be enough. > > What about introducing a kind of "supporters club" with an annual fee set at a > realistic level. (I would imagine the 5ukp fee per upgrade suggested by Ian > recently would barely cover the admin. costs of the upgrade let alone any > development work.) This fee would need to be sufficient to guarantee Beebug > enough money to continue to fund development. In return the "supporters" would > receive updates at regular intervals (perhaps 3-4 times per year?). Perhaps as > a further carrot the supporters would be allowed to vote on the priority of the > various items on the "wish list". Indeed a reasonable idea, but for some people a bit more costly then for others. I've been working with Acorn machines since they came onto the market. With the old A310 in the time that AT (Ancient Technolog Because I live in Belgium upgrades and magazine subscriptions are more expensive then in England. Now we could get our upgrades system could be devised whereby we could only get the upgrade if we are recognised as a subscriber via the internet. Surely it access to the upgrade directory if you are recognised by the server. So If you pay your upgrade fee or are a subscriber, anywhere in the world it would cost you the same. ____ / __ \_________ _________ / /_/ / ___/ __ \/ ___/ __ \ / __ / /__/ /_/ / / / / / / /_/ /_/\___/\____/_/ /_/ /_/ computers are the best check out [ http:/www.acorn.com ] To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 1 18:46:41 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51881 for opro ; Mon, 01 Dec 97 18:46:40 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 880967888:05:26167:78; Mon, 01 Dec 97 09:18:08 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0601537; 1 Dec 97 9:17 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ak1009161; 1 Dec 97 9:16 GMT From: allan harris Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:10:52 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: funding of upgrades To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971201.091052.33@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 11:53:02 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c > I would be quite happy to accept that releases might not arrive at precise > intervals. So long as we were assured that the work was going on I would be > prepared to trust that releases would be made available as soon as sensible. I > think the trust factor is one major plus of the Acorn world and I'm prepared to > put my money where my trust is! > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Rob Hemmings Southport > I think that the idea of a subscription for upgrades would be entirely reasonable and the suggested 20 sounds very reasonable. Z-Line the Fireworkz support group now do a 35 Gold CD which you send back for upgrades; gives you the newsletters and lots of other stuff. -- Allan Harris, GP, Haxby, York YO3 3PH tel 01904-768666 work 01904-760125, fax 750168 To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 1 18:46:48 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51883 for opro ; Mon, 01 Dec 97 18:46:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 880967942:12:13559:79; Mon, 01 Dec 97 09:19:02 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0601941; 1 Dec 97 9:18 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ao1009161; 1 Dec 97 9:17 GMT From: "\"James White (Acorns in Spain" MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at post.mail.demon.net Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:11:52 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: OvPro supporters club... To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971201.091152.38@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:29:17 +0100 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Fri 28 Nov, Colin Thompson wrote: > While the supporters club sounds like a great idea, I don't think it's > very practical. I think it has potential problems. > > You pay 20 pounds for a year and in the first year that could mean you've > got a hell of a lot for your money, so much so that David has been working > for tuppence an hour. > > You pay 20 pounds for the second year and you only get one minor upgrade. > People will start complaining (quickly forgetting what they got the year > before) and dropping out. > As I see it OP was first introduced in direct opposition to IP, after years of development. In order to encourage a ready take-up after so much effort had been put in, a price/marketing strategy was adopted, aimed at ensuring a steady income flow and to encourage converts from IP (and Ovation) to what was a largely unknown product. The push-start offer of a low initial price plus the carrot of free upgrades, set in a time frame and clearly laid out as a contract, rewarded the patient among us, both for the long wait in arrival of the product and for putting up with the inevitable early bugs. We have to remember that this strategy relies on a rising price that is set to start immediately after the introductory period. It is meant to cover early development costs as well as fund further development. (The success of the strategy so far is to be seen in the ready willingness of all to pay more in the form of a support club). However, it may be well to consider whether a support club is sufficient guarantee of future funding to take OP up to and beyond the level of Quark, which it is now within striking distance to do so. We have had amazing value with the final free upgrade bringing Separations and Imposition, which definitively stakes OP ahead of IP Plus. The next developments are likely to take OP to a truly professional level, such as Colour Printing, which will cost. > The fairest system to me seems to put minor fixes etc, free on a website > with the applets and charge a fair price for any major improvements and > upgrades. I also think it would be daft to try and put a fixed price on > that as the amount of work involved could vary immensely depending on the > upgrade. Exactly. I also think that maintaining the web site consumes enough time without having to maintain a support line. Clubs require good evangelical souls who unstintingly dedicate their time, leaving little for debugging. I would really like to see DP moving on to the Next Blockbuster, such as an ArtWorks replacement, an NC Offensive, or the Internet Fax Box. JW -- ------------------------------------------- Sibelius en Spain: Mailto:jacorn@ibm.net En Andalucia: Mailto:pmoya@valnet.es Visita a http://www.argonet.co.uk/opus/spain En Castellano! ------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 1 18:46:57 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51885 for opro ; Mon, 01 Dec 97 18:46:52 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 880967975:06:02726:24; Mon, 01 Dec 97 09:19:35 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0602263; 1 Dec 97 9:19 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id as1009161; 1 Dec 97 9:18 GMT From: Ariancylch Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:09:48 +0000 Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body Subject: Re: OvPro supporters club... To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971201.090948.14@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 00:35:51 +1200 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c In message <19971127.094104.69@risc.demon.co.uk> Andrew Piper wrote: > On Wed 26 Nov 97 (09:24:13 +0000), rhemmings@argonet.co.uk wrote: > > On Tue 25 Nov 97 (09:02:17 +0000), David Pilling wrote: > > > One of my suggestions to Beebug was something like 20 pounds for a > > > subscription, that would get you say 2 upgrades a year, plus > > > whatever bits and bobs are available. It would also include some > > > major new addons, like the fill applet. > > > > > > The problem is of course that offering such a package commits us > > > to providing it. Typically in the software world things don't work > > > out so neatly. So the upgrades and new features may not always pop > > > up every six months. > > > > I would be quite happy to accept that releases might not arrive at > > precise intervals. So long as we were assured that the work was > > going on I would be prepared to trust that releases would be made > > available as soon as sensible. I think the trust factor is one > > major plus of the Acorn world and I'm prepared to put my money where > > my trust is! I'd echo that, and I know that any such scheme would be swiftly joined by work. (Who seem to be actively considering a site licence for OvPro, finally, so we can have it running on more than the one (?) machine we currently do) > Yes Rob, so would I, but you can bet your bottom dollar that someone, > somewhere, would raise a complaint. And that's the problem here! I > think we've been lucky with the releases so far, and the continuing > work. But at some point development *will* slow down, for whatever > reason, and then such a scheme would run into trouble. Tough for them. I've met various software 'support' schemes (that are -far- more expensive than is being proposed here) that claim no more than a fixed period that the support is for, and that any (and all) upgrades made available during that period will be sent for free. In theory it would be possible to have several levels of 'Clan Ovation Pro': Everyone (free) * OvPro Mailing list * Applet www site COP 1 (5 gold per year) * Bug fixes/patches available via web * Bug fixes/patches sent out on disk via post for those that require it, at most once every four months, less if no patches made. (Include updated applets from www site?) COP 2 (10 gold per year) - COP 1, and * Minor upgrades included with patches on www and disk * Disk mailout at three months, or on request COP 3 (20 gold per year) - COP 2, and * Major upgrades included * Disk mailouts as available Where those that can use the web do, and those that can't have the option of obtaining the changes on disk. What a 'gold' translates to in Real Money is another issue, as is whether or not multiple levels are practical and/or useful. The administration involved in maintaining the various groups might well far outweigh the benefits. In Reality it'd be likely that COP 2 and COP 3 are merged to form the 'advanced support' package which made 'new' features available. I think the key point is that an exact 'schedule of upgrades' is unecessary, -provided- people are convinced they are getting something worthwhile out of it. Naturally you can't please everyone, but if we went 18, 12, or even 9 months without seeing -anything-, I think people would rightfully complain. On the otherhand, if, during that time, bugs were fixed (and lets face it, as far as we can see, we report them, they get fixed) and the patches distributed, the general populace would be Very Happy. Notes people (on this list) considering these need to keep in mind: - Don't forget the people -without- 'net access. They do exist. - Don't forget the people -with- 'net access. - Be practical. Free upgrades are cool. 1200ukp upgrades are cool. It all depends on who you are. - To a certain extent we're the converted: What would entice 'new' people to OvPro... J, who'll shut up now. It's OvPro related, but the discussion is slightly getting out of hand in terms of filling up the list, I think... -- I won't use words again May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said places where you must walk To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 2 13:44:08 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51988 for opro ; Tue, 02 Dec 97 13:44:06 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881055887:12:05483:77; Tue, 02 Dec 97 09:44:47 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0608285; 2 Dec 97 9:44 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ad1006766; 2 Dec 97 9:43 GMT From: Colin Thompson Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:17:33 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: OvPro supporters club... To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971202.091733.91@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 21:00:54 +0100 (BST) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c \James White (Acorns in Spain wrote: > I would really like to see DP moving on to the Next Blockbuster, such as > an ArtWorks replacement, an NC Offensive, or the Internet Fax Box. Absolutely, and maybe in a quick ten minutes before he does that he could please knock up a scanner to printer pseudo photocopier (like laserdirect had I believe), please. -- Colin Thompson Mail to - colinet@atlantis.aust.com Web site - http://www.atlantis.aust.com/~colinet To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 2 13:44:13 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51991 for opro ; Tue, 02 Dec 97 13:44:12 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881055907:12:05606:25; Tue, 02 Dec 97 09:45:07 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0608596; 2 Dec 97 9:44 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ae1006766; 2 Dec 97 9:44 GMT From: Allan Woods Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:17:55 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Ungroup Command To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971202.091755.43@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:03:59 +0100 (BST) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Mon 17 Nov, Roger King wrote: > Has anyone noticed that the key shortcut "Ungroup" > command from the Object menu does not function? > > Has this been fixed in version 2.47? > I am just a new user after years with Impression and have to say that I find a number of the menu shortcuts are different than -- Allan Woods, Greenock To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 2 13:44:18 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51993 for opro ; Tue, 02 Dec 97 13:44:16 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881055918:12:05595:78; Tue, 02 Dec 97 09:45:18 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0608847; 2 Dec 97 9:44 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ah1006766; 2 Dec 97 9:44 GMT From: Ariancylch Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:16:50 +0000 Organization: Lylmik Supervisory body Subject: Re: OvPro supporters club... To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971202.091650.97@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 22:59:55 +1200 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c In message <19971201.091152.38@risc.demon.co.uk> "\"James White (Acorns in Spain" wrote: > Exactly. I also think that maintaining the web site consumes enough > time without having to maintain a support line. Clubs require good > evangelical souls who unstintingly dedicate their time, leaving little > for debugging. There's actually no reason that most of the web site maintenance (in the 'OvPro Supporters Club' line) can't be delegated to a (trusted) club member. Indeed, if people were as keen as they seem to be to keep things moving in the actual development line, taking most of the work out of the support would already be useful. For example, is there a summary, somewhere, of the hints and tips that appear in this list? A Frequently Solved Problems, or Frequently Used Work-arounds. (I should know this, but I've been putting my computer back together over the last week or so ) -- I won't use words again May god stand between you they don't mean what I meant and harm in all the empty they don't say what I said places where you must walk To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 2 13:44:23 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51995 for opro ; Tue, 02 Dec 97 13:44:21 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881055986:05:28648:79; Tue, 02 Dec 97 09:46:26 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0609435; 2 Dec 97 9:46 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id aj1006766; 2 Dec 97 9:45 GMT From: "Howe , Chris" Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:17:13 +0000 Organization: Subject: RE: Future releases To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971202.091713.48@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: 1 Dec 97 12:22:00 +0000 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c I feel very positive about Beebug, to the extent I should *want* to pay a reasonable amount for successive OvP releases. If the manual is re-printed I should want to buy the update. Perhaps any premium updates could bundle more specialist weights of the EFF fonts? (Regrettably I had to complain to Archive about the Alsystems Parallel Zip Driver S/W I bought from them. I too felt one of Alsystem's products was not of merchantable quality, certainly in all the desktop citizenry areas such as documentation, help, and little niggly errors. It does work but the impression is of a rushed product. I am helping write a comparative review of this, vs Argo's Driver (which has less 'features' but is much better presented).) Even though Ovation Pro is not perfect, you can almost 'see' why any imperfections have arisen, often due to complex tertiary interactions, and it is enjoyable participating with them in getting it better. Keith Parker wrote: > Well, I paid ukp23.50 for technical support from Alystems with one > upgrade, so I guess that a 'membership' fee of, at least, ukp20 plus VAT > for one (or more) upgrades per year would be fine! So did I and all I got was bug fixes in faulty software. In Alsystems case I think the whole thing was a dreadful ripoff. We all bought their SCSI card (which I must admit has given me no trouble at all) and then paid them to do the work they should have done before they released it to bring it up to 'merchantable quality'. Colin Thompson To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 2 13:44:29 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA51997 for opro ; Tue, 02 Dec 97 13:44:27 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881055997:12:06149:80; Tue, 02 Dec 97 09:46:37 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0609423; 2 Dec 97 9:46 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ak1006766; 2 Dec 97 9:45 GMT From: David Pilling Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:18:16 +0000 Organization: Subject: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971202.091816.26@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 97 01:47:17 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c From: Dr A G Gray >Have I missed something, or is there a problem with hyphenation of words at the >end of a line when there is a forward slash / in a 'compound' word. >Try as a might, I cannot get orchestral/instrumental or such like to split at >the end of a line. >Any comments? I think this is a good idea. At the moment the only things it splits on are spaces and '-' hard hyphens. I've often found /'s difficult to format. The question is would this change upset anyone? And are there any other characters which should be split on? From: James White (Acorns in Spain) >I would really like to see DP moving on to the Next Blockbuster, such as >an ArtWorks replacement, an NC Offensive, or the Internet Fax Box. I think I was a consultant on the last one - Netfax? To some extent this is the trouble with the Acorn world, I could easily spend another 5 years tinkering with OPro, and it would then be a very nice program indeed. But who'd like to predict where (if) the Acorn world will be in 5 years time. You'd not expect the Quark programmers to be knocking out scanner drivers as their main occupation... We never perfect anything, the pressure is always to move on to something new. News ---- I just wrought a new applet - Fog. One of those text readability things. Not that good, it's on the web pages... David Pilling To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 3 14:41:29 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52129 for opro ; Wed, 03 Dec 97 14:41:25 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881139993:12:04183:77; Wed, 03 Dec 97 09:06:33 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0603968; 3 Dec 97 9:06 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ad2011125; 3 Dec 97 9:05 GMT From: Carl Cepurneek Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:02:52 +0000 Organization: Subject: Hyphanation at / etc To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971203.090252.62@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:56:57 +0930 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Hyphenation discussion continues: >>end of a line when there is a forward slash / in a 'compound' word. .... >The question is would this change upset anyone? And are >there any other characters which should be split on? I sometimes use the slash for inline fractions (cycles/second) which I'd not like split, but then they generally appear indented on their own line. What about URLs? To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 3 14:41:35 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52134 for opro ; Wed, 03 Dec 97 14:41:33 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881140019:12:04357:77; Wed, 03 Dec 97 09:06:59 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab0603968; 3 Dec 97 9:06 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ag2011125; 3 Dec 97 9:06 GMT From: Peter Bell Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:02:07 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971203.090207.26@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:26:25 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Tue 02 Dec, David Pilling wrote: > From: Dr A G Gray > > >Have I missed something, or is there a problem with hyphenation of words at the > >end of a line when there is a forward slash / in a 'compound' word. > >Try as a might, I cannot get orchestral/instrumental or such like to split at > >the end of a line. > >Any comments? > > I think this is a good idea. At the moment the only things it > splits on are spaces and '-' hard hyphens. I've often found /'s difficult to format. > > The question is would this change upset anyone? Yes! One of the gripes that I have always had with Impression is the way it splits a line on a forward slash, and there is no obvious way of preventing it. Terms such as TCP/IP and OS/2 must not be split. I have often wasted time trying to reword some text in such a way that such a term does not occur at the end of a line. Would it be possible to ensure that a line is only split after a forward slash when there are more than a certain number of characters following (5?)? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Bell - peter@foursqre.demon.co.uk - FourSquare Computing Ltd 5 Drome Path, Winnersh, Wokingham, Berkshire RG41 5HB, UK. Tel. +44 (0) 118 989 0982 Fax. +44 (0) 118 979 4639 To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 3 14:41:41 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52136 for opro ; Wed, 03 Dec 97 14:41:41 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881140029:05:24027:24; Wed, 03 Dec 97 09:07:09 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0604590; 3 Dec 97 9:06 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ae2011125; 3 Dec 97 9:05 GMT From: David Pilling Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:03:12 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971203.090312.72@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 97 02:57:06 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c From:(D.A.Symes) (private email) >Just down loaded the Fog applet and given it a run.... >I assume it's a joke of course. :-) I can see you'll be mimsying among the borrowgroves next. >From:(Carl Cepurneek) (private email) >"See Dave run." is declared to be 'College graduate ' level. Perhaps the >UK education system is different to here? :-) I knew there was something wrong. It's a bug now fixed - 1.01 on the web. David Pilling To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 3 14:41:46 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52138 for opro ; Wed, 03 Dec 97 14:41:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881140065:05:24206:79; Wed, 03 Dec 97 09:07:45 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0604590; 3 Dec 97 9:07 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ai2011125; 3 Dec 97 9:07 GMT From: Nick Kaijaks Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:02:30 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Auto-hyphenation To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971203.090230.88@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 14:00:48 +0000 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c David Pilling wrote: > > From: Dr A G Gray > >Have I missed something, or is there a problem with hyphenation of > I think this is a good idea. At the moment the only things it > splits on are spaces and '-' hard hyphens. I've often found /'s > ^^^^ I thought hard hyphens were non-breaking? Do you mean normal and soft/optional hyphens? > difficult to format. > > The question is would this change upset anyone? And are > there any other characters which should be split on? I can imagine it could cause trouble. For example, you might want to split "orchestral/instrumental", but not necessarily "5/8 inch". OK, so I ought to use a solidus instead of a forward slash, but there must be other such cases. If you want to add other characters, you've got to have some means of excepting them (equivalent to non-breaking hyphens). Perhaps "orchestral/instrumental" and the like could be defined as a hyphentation exception, or the 'splitting' characters could be put somewhere user-definable eg. a file or macro? TTFN, Nick -- nick kaijaks; proprietor, pinxit design - putting the solution together and; research student, physics, university of warwick, coventry cv4 7al http://www.warwick.ac.uk/Nick.Kaijaks/ mailto:Nick.Kaijaks@warwick.ac.uk Disclaimer: caveat internettor To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 4 14:01:52 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52220 for opro ; Thu, 04 Dec 97 14:01:50 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881226473:12:10788:77; Thu, 04 Dec 97 09:07:53 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0628049; 4 Dec 97 9:07 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ad2010686; 4 Dec 97 9:04 GMT From: Kelvin Randall Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 09:01:59 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971204.090200.00@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 13:42:02 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Wed 3 Dec 97 (09:03:12 +0000), david@pilling.demon.co.uk wrote: > From:(D.A.Symes) (private email) > >Just down loaded the Fog applet and given it a run.... > >I assume it's a joke of course. :-) > > I can see you'll be mimsying among the borrowgroves next. > I've also just loaded the Fog applet and now every time I open a new OP document I get a message from OvPro box with no message in it. Is it me or is it Fog that's mimsying? Kelvin -- __ __ __ _ ___ __ ____ / //_/__ / / __(_)__ / _ \___ ____ ___/ /__ _/ / / / ,< / -_) / |/ / / _ \ / _, / _ `/ _ \/ _ / _ `/ / / /_/|_|\__/_/|___/_/_//_/ /_/ |_\_,_/_//_/\_,_/\_,_/_/_/ To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 4 14:01:54 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52222 for opro ; Thu, 04 Dec 97 14:01:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881226473:12:10802:77; Thu, 04 Dec 97 09:07:53 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac0628468; 4 Dec 97 9:07 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id an2010686; 4 Dec 97 9:06 GMT From: David Pilling Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 09:02:22 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971204.090222.49@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 97 17:09:48 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c From: Nick Kaijaks >> I think this is a good idea. At the moment the only things it >> splits on are spaces and '-' hard hyphens. I've often found /'s > >I thought hard hyphens were non-breaking? Do you mean normal and >soft/optional hyphens? Yes, sorry, bad choice of word. At the moment, we've got standard hyphens (minus sign on the keyboard), hard hyphens (non-breaking), and discretionary hyphens. With the added catch that if you stick a discretionary hyphen at the start of a word, no hyphenation at all takes place. Thank you all for pointing out why splitting on /'s is a bad idea. One thing I can offer easily is a character akin to a discretionary hyphen, which allows the specification of a point to split at. Although this is only a small step forward on sticking a space in. Yes, one could have a global switch for splitting on /'s. Or a text style flag etc. etc. but quite if this is a common enough problem for such a heavy duty solution, I don't know. The only other thing this brings to mind is that there is a secret pargraph attribute of 'word wrap', switch that off and you'll get splits at the nearest character. David Pilling To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 4 14:01:59 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52224 for opro ; Thu, 04 Dec 97 14:01:58 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881226505:12:10934:82; Thu, 04 Dec 97 09:08:25 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0628475; 4 Dec 97 9:07 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id al2010686; 4 Dec 97 9:05 GMT From: Steve Ellacott Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 09:01:12 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971204.090112.48@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 13:47:53 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Tue 02 Dec, David Pilling wrote: > > > > From: Dr A G Gray > > >Have I missed something, or is there a problem with hyphenation of words at the > >end of a line when there is a forward slash / in a 'compound' word. > >Try as a might, I cannot get orchestral/instrumental or such like to split at > >the end of a line. > >Any comments? > > I think this is a good idea. At the moment the only things it > splits on are spaces and '-' hard hyphens. I've often found /'s difficult to format. > > The question is would this change upset anyone? And are > there any other characters which should be split on? > IMHO this is a very bad idea. It means that fractions and mathematical expression using division would be split over two lines. -- Steve Ellacott, School of Computing and Mathematical Sciences, University of Brighton, Moulsecoomb, BN2 4GJ, UK Tel: Home (01273) 885845 Office: (01273) 642544 or 642414 Fax: Home (01273) 270183 Office: (01273) 642405 WWW: http://www.it.brighton.ac.uk/staff/swe To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 4 14:02:04 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52226 for opro ; Thu, 04 Dec 97 14:02:02 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881226539:12:11100:77; Thu, 04 Dec 97 09:08:59 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab0628548; 4 Dec 97 9:08 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id am2010686; 4 Dec 97 9:06 GMT From: Chris Ford Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 09:01:37 +0000 Organization: Subject: splitting at / To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971204.090137.10@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 10:05:17 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c From: Dr A G Gray >Have I missed something, or is there a problem with hyphenation of words at the >end of a line when there is a forward slash / in a 'compound' word. >Try as a might, I cannot get orchestral/instrumental or such like to split at >the end of a line. >Any comments? I agree with others about the annoyance in Publisher of splitting at a forward slash, as in 1/2 etc. I thought at one stage there was a solution in Publisher, namely to put an optional hyphen just before the /. However, it doesn't seem to work nowadays! There is one other use for an optional hyphen at the end of a word, and that is to stop the word being hyphenated at all (I don't know if this happens in OPro, but it did in Publisher). So I suggest an optional hyphen just AFTER such a splittable character should be taken to mean don't split, whereas putting it just before should mean don't hyphenate the previous word. Chris. -- Dr C.J.B. Ford, cjbf@cam.ac.uk, tel. +44 1223 337486, fax +44 1223 337271 To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 4 14:02:09 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52228 for opro ; Thu, 04 Dec 97 14:02:07 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881226545:05:06186:77; Thu, 04 Dec 97 09:09:05 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0628945; 4 Dec 97 9:08 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ap2010686; 4 Dec 97 9:07 GMT From: Are Leistad Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 09:02:44 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971204.090244.88@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:53:06 +0000 (GMT+1) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Wed 03 Des, Peter Bell wrote: > On Tue 02 Dec, David Pilling wrote: > > From: Dr A G Gray > > > > >Have I missed something, or is there a problem with hyphenation of words at the > > >end of a line when there is a forward slash / in a 'compound' word. > > >Try as a might, I cannot get orchestral/instrumental or such like to split at > > >the end of a line. > > >Any comments? > > > > I think this is a good idea. At the moment the only things it > > splits on are spaces and '-' hard hyphens. I've often found /'s difficult to format. > > > > The question is would this change upset anyone? > > Yes! One of the gripes that I have always had with Impression is the > way it splits a line on a forward slash, and there is no obvious way of > preventing it. Terms such as TCP/IP and OS/2 must not be split. I > have often wasted time trying to reword some text in such a way that > such a term does not occur at the end of a line. Would it be possible > to ensure that a line is only split after a forward slash when there > are more than a certain number of characters following (5?)? Wouldn't it be easier to do an exceptins-dictionary of those words/terms which should *not* be split? -- Regards, Sveinung W. Tengelsen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- mailto:pixeleye@sn.no | I have one illusion; http://www.sn.no/~pixeleye/Index.htm | I have no illusions. To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 5 13:56:02 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52317 for opro ; Fri, 05 Dec 97 13:56:01 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881318111:12:18644:79; Fri, 05 Dec 97 10:35:11 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac0619770; 5 Dec 97 10:34 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ac1026311; 5 Dec 97 10:33 GMT From: Julian Wright Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:51:52 +0000 Organization: USS Enterprise, NCC 1701a Subject: Non-breaking paragraph To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971205.095152.60@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:37:06 +1300 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c All this talk about splitting lines at "/"s has reminded me of something else I have occasionally wished for. Namely, non-breaking paragraphs. That is, I'd like to be able to specify that a paragraph never be split across multiple frames. Julian -- Confucius say: he who run in front of car get tired. To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 5 13:56:06 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52319 for opro ; Fri, 05 Dec 97 13:56:05 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881318171:12:18960:84; Fri, 05 Dec 97 10:36:11 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0620292; 5 Dec 97 10:35 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ah1026311; 5 Dec 97 10:34 GMT From: David Pilling Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:27:06 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971205.102706.51@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 97 14:42:40 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c From: Kelvin Randall >I've also just loaded the Fog applet and now every time I open a new OP >document I get a message from OvPro box with no message in it. Is it me or is >it Fog that's mimsying? Hmm. I would not suspect Fog. My feeling is that there is another applet - one of the ones which opens a window for each document that can sometimes go wrong like this. Whilst on the subject. I've met a few people who have said that OPro crashed (trap in trap handler) when "I was just typing". This sort of thing is impossible to track down. However yesterday I saw it happen. It seems to me to correlate with the PagePal applet. So if you've had this problem, remove the PagePal applet and see if it goes away. I am now investigating to see why this is happening. David Pilling To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 5 13:56:10 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52321 for opro ; Fri, 05 Dec 97 13:56:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881318181:12:19035:77; Fri, 05 Dec 97 10:36:21 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac0620445; 5 Dec 97 10:36 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ai1026311; 5 Dec 97 10:35 GMT From: Dr A G Gray Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:27:47 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: splitting at / To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971205.102747.05@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 97 16:01:07 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Thu 4 Dec 97 (09:01:37 +0000), cjbf@cam.ac.uk wrote: > > I agree with others about the annoyance in Publisher of splitting at a >forward slash, as in 1/2 etc. But the situation is only going to arise with long 'compound' words. Simple fractions are not going to fall within the hyphenation specification anyway. For example, I set mine at 9 characters minimum, with minimum of 4 chars before and 4 after before hyphenation is contemplated. A related difficulty occurs with a long word which is not hyphenated when immediately followed by closing quotes. (Or is preceded by an opening quote.) The only answer to this is to leave a space. -- Alan.Gray@argonet.co.uk Dr A.G.Gray. Great Warley, Essex. UK http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/alan.gray N 51 33'58" E 00 17'35" G3XQU (DXCC=323/328) Acorn RiscPC S/A 202MHz To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 5 13:56:14 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52323 for opro ; Fri, 05 Dec 97 13:56:13 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881318233:12:19305:24; Fri, 05 Dec 97 10:37:13 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab0619956; 5 Dec 97 10:36 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id aj1026311; 5 Dec 97 10:35 GMT From: Carl Cepurneek Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:28:13 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: hyphenation (NOT Re: Various :-!) To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971205.102813.45@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:46:56 +0930 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Sveinung W. Tengelsen adds... >Wouldn't it be easier to do an exceptins-dictionary of those words/terms >which should *not* be split? Fractions are a class of words several writers have mentioned as being non splitters. It is left as an exercise for readers to construct an exception-dictrionary with all possible n1/n2 fractions :-) So far, the idea of a 'no-split' style that can be applied to problem words sounds the most straight forward to implement (?) and use. I'd assume it could work for *any* character which might otherwise be a hyphenation candidate, including spaces. For- now, cpc To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 5 13:56:19 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52325 for opro ; Fri, 05 Dec 97 13:56:18 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881318251:12:19350:85; Fri, 05 Dec 97 10:37:31 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0620292; 5 Dec 97 10:37 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id al1026311; 5 Dec 97 10:36 GMT From: "Dr. D. M. Lewis" Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:26:44 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971205.102644.81@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 09:48:09 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Thu 04 Dec, Steve Ellacott wrote: > On Tue 02 Dec, David Pilling wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Dr A G Gray > > > > >Have I missed something, or is there a problem with hyphenation of words at the > > >end of a line when there is a forward slash / in a 'compound' word. > > >Try as a might, I cannot get orchestral/instrumental or such like to split at > > >the end of a line. > > IMHO this is a very bad idea. It means that fractions and mathematical expression > using division would be split over two lines. I agree very strongly with the last comment (it is one of the problems with Impression). Would a compromise be to allow the soft hyphen to operate and produce a split at the slash - it could be put either side to increase flexibility. (I can not get this to work but I may be wrong as I am very new to Ovation). Don Lewis Dr. D. M. Lewis, Phone +44 117 9287813 Department of Physiology, Secretaries' Office +44 117 9288105 Medical School, Fax +44 117 9288923 Unversity Walk, Bristol, BS8 1TD, mailto:Don.Lewis@bristol.ac.uk England. To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 5 13:56:25 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52327 for opro ; Fri, 05 Dec 97 13:56:23 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881318318:12:19669:49; Fri, 05 Dec 97 10:38:38 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0619956; 5 Dec 97 10:35 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ad1026311; 5 Dec 97 10:34 GMT From: Eddie Lord Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:27:26 +0000 Organization: Subject: RE: Future releases & Alsystems To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971205.102726.97@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:54:22 -0500 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Regretably, unless one is prepared to pay for upgrades, the quality of Acorn software will suffer, simply because the Acorn market is not big enough. If the upgrade came with an additional user guide (perhaps including many of the techniques found on this site) then it would be worth paying for. As for Alsystems, I upgraded my SCSI2 to SCSI3 at the show, and it has promptly trashed my hard drive. Taken me days to restore my PC partition. So much for merchantable quality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eddie Lord. 72046.251@compuserve.com To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 5 13:56:30 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52329 for opro ; Fri, 05 Dec 97 13:56:28 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881318618:06:23889:34; Fri, 05 Dec 97 10:43:38 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0621169; 5 Dec 97 10:37 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id an1026311; 5 Dec 97 10:36 GMT From: Richard Hallas Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:51:10 +0000 Organization: KeyNote Music Typesetting Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971205.095110.58@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 09:13:17 +0000 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c In message <19971204.090222.49@risc.demon.co.uk> David Pilling wrote: > Thank you all for pointing out why splitting on /'s is a bad idea. > > One thing I can offer easily is a character akin to a discretionary > hyphen, which allows the specification of a point to split at. > Although this is only a small step forward on sticking a space in. That would certainly be useful. > Yes, one could have a global switch for splitting on /'s. Or a text > style flag etc. etc. but quite if this is a common enough problem > for such a heavy duty solution, I don't know. It probably is, actually. One thing that springs to mind is that you could make this splitting on either side of a slash relatively intelligent. For instance, the biggest gripe is that you don't want fractions or common acronyms to be split at the hyphen... so things like TCP/IP and 49/81 don't get split. However, in the cases where words on either side of a slash /can/ get split is where both halves are full words in their own right. So you could have a rule where if both words on either side of the slash are present in the spelling checker's dictionary, you know that it's OK to split at the slash; but if not, don't. On the whole, though, I suspect that it's easier just to stick with the 'manual' splitting - though you could certainly make it know that it should never split in cases where either half is a number. Anyway, something to ponder on... -- Richard -=-=-=- Richard G. Hallas * Author of "Charges" * Editor of RISC User magazine Proprietor of KeyNote: Music Typesetting & General Desktop Publishing E-mail: Richard@hallas.demon.co.uk * Telephone/Facsimile: 01484 460280 To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 8 18:00:53 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52449 for opro ; Mon, 08 Dec 97 18:00:52 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881577370:12:02936:80; Mon, 08 Dec 97 10:36:10 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0628414; 8 Dec 97 10:35 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ae1027950; 8 Dec 97 10:34 GMT From: Sveinung Tengelsen Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:08:30 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Non-breaking paragraph To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971208.090830.24@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 12:50:54 +0000 (GMT+1) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Fri 05 Des, Julian Wright wrote: > All this talk about splitting lines at "/"s has reminded me of something else > I have occasionally wished for. Namely, non-breaking paragraphs. That is, I'd > like to be able to specify that a paragraph never be split across multiple > frames. AKA "Widow and Orphan control". S' a good'un - should be a style-parameter. :) -- Regards, Sveinung W. Tengelsen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- mailto:pixeleye@sn.no | I have one illusion; http://www.sn.no/~pixeleye/Index.htm | I have no illusions. To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 8 18:00:55 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52450 for opro ; Mon, 08 Dec 97 18:00:54 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881577370:05:29637:81; Mon, 08 Dec 97 10:36:10 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ag0628603; 8 Dec 97 10:35 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id af1027950; 8 Dec 97 10:34 GMT From: Samuel Penn Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:10:16 +0000 Organization: Somewhere else in Aldershot Subject: Keep together To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971208.091016.76@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 18:56:01 +0000 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Okay then, I've just bought Ovation Pro having been using Impression for countless years, so naturally I'm trying to do in Ovation what I'd do in Impression. AFAICT, there isn't a 'keep together' option for styles. Is this true? If not, is there another way of getting the same effect? By 'keep together' I mean being able to set up a style (such as a heading) as 'keep with next paragraph', or 'keep together with 28.8 pts', so that headings don't appear by themselves at the bottom of a page, but are flushed to the next page if the following lines or paragraphs are over the page. -- Be seeing you, Sam. To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 8 18:01:00 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52452 for opro ; Mon, 08 Dec 97 18:00:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881577399:05:00056:26; Mon, 08 Dec 97 10:36:39 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac0628414; 8 Dec 97 10:35 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id am1027950; 8 Dec 97 10:35 GMT From: "Bernard G. Hill" Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:08:07 +0000 Organization: Subject: Fonts Problem To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971208.090807.75@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 16:25:07 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c I have been having trouble with the Font Family 'Duke' loaded into !Boot Resourses from the Font Foundry CD Rom. When a file is loaded a message states that these fonts are not available but selecting 'subsititute' causes the file to load and then display the fonts it claimed were not available. I suspect that this has caused some printing difficulties I have recently experienced, but that may be just blaming something without evidence. To check if there was anything wrong with the fonts, I re-did the file in Impression Publisher and this file loads without making any complaints, and displays and prints 'Duke' without trouble. Has anyone else had this kind of problem with this same typeface or any other? Bernard Hill -- Bernard G. Hill Tel/Fax: 01633 880197 Zion, Church Road Undy, Newport e-mail bernard.hill@virgin.net Monmouthshire NP6 3EN To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 8 18:01:04 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52454 for opro ; Mon, 08 Dec 97 18:01:03 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881577431:05:00310:78; Mon, 08 Dec 97 10:37:11 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0629312; 8 Dec 97 10:37 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id an1027950; 8 Dec 97 10:35 GMT From: Sveinung Tengelsen Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:08:51 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: hyphenation (NOT Re: Various :-!) To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971208.090851.52@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:09:18 +0000 (GMT+1) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Fri 05 Des, Carl Cepurneek wrote: > Sveinung W. Tengelsen adds... > > >Wouldn't it be easier to do an exceptins-dictionary of those words/terms > >which should *not* be split? > > Fractions are a class of words several writers have mentioned as being non > splitters. It is left as an exercise for readers to construct an > exception-dictrionary with all possible n1/n2 fractions :-) Uh - "don't split fractions (i.e numbers with a / between)"? 8) > So far, the idea of a 'no-split' style that can be applied to problem words > sounds the most straight forward to implement (?) and use. I'd assume it > could work for *any* character which might otherwise be a hyphenation > candidate, including spaces. Agree. -- Regards, Sveinung W. Tengelsen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- mailto:pixeleye@sn.no | I have one illusion; http://www.sn.no/~pixeleye/Index.htm | I have no illusions. To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 8 18:01:09 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52456 for opro ; Mon, 08 Dec 97 18:01:08 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881577440:05:00395:26; Mon, 08 Dec 97 10:37:20 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab0629270; 8 Dec 97 10:36 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ao1027950; 8 Dec 97 10:36 GMT From: "D.A.Symes" Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:09:55 +0000 Organization: Subject: Clipboard To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971208.090955.35@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 21:38:11 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Hi folks.. I was under the impression (sorry) that Ov Pro used the universal clipboard, but it doesn't seem to. Can someone put me right on this... I know we discussed the universal clipboard at some length in the past, but I can't remember now... :-( Cheers Dave PS: I'm aware of the other ways I can drag out of Ov Pro into other WP's, that's not in question. It's just that out of curiosity I did a Ctrl-C in Ov Pro on an email I was writing, then tried Ctrl-V(ing) it in Pluto... nothing happened. Obviously if I'd been using (sorry publisher) it would have worked. Dave -- _________________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... df.symes@argonet.co.uk Phone/Fax (01202) 432 489 ...Mem...Clan Acorn... ZFC A almost B... Mem...BSFA and others... www.argonet.co.uk/users/df.symes/index.htm News and mail with the help of Pluto V 0.37c To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 8 18:01:15 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52458 for opro ; Mon, 08 Dec 97 18:01:13 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881577455:05:00442:78; Mon, 08 Dec 97 10:37:35 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac0629658; 8 Dec 97 10:37 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ar1027950; 8 Dec 97 10:36 GMT From: Martin Corley Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:09:13 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971208.090913.14@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:26:10 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c > On Thu 04 Dec, Steve Ellacott wrote: > > On Tue 02 Dec, David Pilling wrote: > > > From: Dr A G Gray > > > > > > > Have I missed something, or is there a problem with hyphenation > > > > of words at the end of a line when there is a forward slash / in > > > > a 'compound' word. [...] > > IMHO this is a very bad idea. It means that fractions and > > mathematical expression using division would be split over two > > lines. > > I agree very strongly with the last comment [...] It seems that there is not going to be an easy way to implement "/"-breaking to everyone's satisfaction; moreover, I suspect that any solution attempted will have to be general enough to handle other breaking characters that people might request in the future... Can I suggest (a) a user-editable list of "breakable" characters, allowing musicians and mathematicians to get the default behaviour they desire; (b) a "keep together" emphasis (a bit like \mbox{} in LaTeX) which would ensure that no line break ever occurred in any text so emphasised(*); (c) a "soft break" character which acted like soft hyphen but didn't insert any character as the result of a linebreak. That should provide enough configurability for anyone's purposes, surely? (*) ideally, a "line" keep together (as above), and a "paragraph" keep together (as previously requested)... Martin Corley -- Martin Corley ---- Department of Psychology Martin.Corley@ed.ac.uk University of Edinburgh ---- To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 8 18:01:21 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52460 for opro ; Mon, 08 Dec 97 18:01:19 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881577484:05:00625:81; Mon, 08 Dec 97 10:38:04 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0629781; 8 Dec 97 10:37 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id as1027950; 8 Dec 97 10:37 GMT From: Nick Kaijaks Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:09:34 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971208.090934.59@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:29:41 +0000 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Richard Hallas wrote: > However, in the cases where words on either side of a slash /can/ get > split is where both halves are full words in their own right. So you > could have a rule where if both words on either side of the slash are > present in the spelling checker's dictionary, you know that it's OK > to split at the slash; but if not, don't. But then what if you're taking about something like a ratio? You'd again lose the sense of the sentence: eg. number of spatulas/person, porcupines/womble, valence level electrons/bulk atom... Dr. D. M. Lewis wrote: > Would a compromise be to allow the soft hyphen to operate and produce > a split at the slash - it could be put either side to increase > flexibility. (I can not get this to work but I may be wrong as I > am very new to Ovation). This seems like a sensible solution... alternatively, a non-splitting style property would do the job nicely - along with non-breaking paras as mentioned earlier. Dr A G Gray wrote: > But the situation is only going to arise with long 'compound' words. > Simple fractions are not going to fall within the hyphenation > specification anyway. For example, I set mine at 9 characters > minimum, with minimum of 4 chars before and 4 after before > hyphenation is contemplated. But what is the *default* hyphenation specification? We ought to have a solution that works whatever hyphenation is switched on for a style. TTFN, Nick -- nick kaijaks; proprietor, pinxit design - putting the solution together and; research student, physics, university of warwick, coventry cv4 7al http://www.warwick.ac.uk/Nick.Kaijaks/ mailto:Nick.Kaijaks@warwick.ac.uk Disclaimer: caveat internettor To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 9 13:48:53 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52547 for opro ; Tue, 09 Dec 97 13:48:51 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881661970:05:06555:79; Tue, 09 Dec 97 10:06:10 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0605067; 9 Dec 97 10:05 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ae2027494; 9 Dec 97 10:04 GMT From: Carl Cepurneek Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 10:02:06 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: hyphenation To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971209.100206.57@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:01:07 +0930 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c cpc & swt volly: >> exception-dictrionary with all possible n1/n2 fractions :-) >Uh - "don't split fractions (i.e numbers with a / between)"? 8) But what if I only want to hyphenate fractions with non prime numerators? ;-) More seriously, how would it be done? Like the validation strings in icons? Would be handy for spelling dictionary too, to allow say any single alpha character rather then entering A to Z. A dictionalry with wildcards. >Agree. Sensible person, this Sveinung W. Tengelsen! :-) To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 9 13:49:02 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52549 for opro ; Tue, 09 Dec 97 13:48:58 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881662013:12:27273:78; Tue, 09 Dec 97 10:06:53 GMT Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.27]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ac0605239; 9 Dec 97 10:06 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ag2027494; 9 Dec 97 10:04 GMT From: David Pilling Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 10:01:43 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971209.100143.53@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Dec 97 21:05:53 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c From: Sveinung Tengelsen >AKA "Widow and Orphan control". S' a good'un - should be a style-parameter. :) From: Samuel Penn >AFAICT, there isn't a 'keep together' option for styles. >Is this true? If not, is there another way of getting the >same effect? It's a shortcoming of the program at the moment that these keep together styles are not implemented. If you ever look at a DDL file you can see the provision that has been made to support them in the future. I'm not sure about workarounds. Stick your paragraph text in a frame and then embed that frame in the text story is one that springs to mind. From: "Bernard G. Hill" >I have been having trouble with the Font Family 'Duke' loaded into !Boot >Resourses >from the Font Foundry CD Rom. When a file is loaded a message states that >these fonts are not available but selecting 'subsititute' causes the file to >load and then display the fonts it claimed were not available. I suspect that >this has caused some printing difficulties I have recently experienced, but >that may be just blaming something without evidence. Sounds interesting. I'm not aware of this problem. An idea is that you may have created the document with a font "DUKEFONT" and then the fonts on the system may now be "dukefont" - change of case. That would be a bug I suppose, easy to check by looking at the fonts embedded in the document, or saving as DDL, which would allow you to change them by hand. From: "D.A.Symes" >I was under the impression (sorry) that Ov Pro used the universal >clipboard, but it doesn't seem to. No support for the universal clipboard. The usual argument is around whether it is worthwhile. From: Martin Corley >Can I suggest (a) a user-editable list of "breakable" characters, >allowing musicians and mathematicians to get the default behaviour they >desire; (b) a "keep together" emphasis (a bit like \mbox{} in LaTeX) >which would ensure that no line break ever occurred in any text so >emphasised(*); (c) a "soft break" character which acted like soft hyphen >but didn't insert any character as the result of a linebreak. Thats a neat summary. I'm happy with (c), (b) is OK, but (a) gets us into having this as part of document preferences - not impossible c.f. commas and full stops for decimal tabs, but messy. From: David Pilling >What news about the "I was just typing and it fell over" bug? I'm glad you asked me that. I have reasonably strong evidence that this is caused by having 'use inks' set on in the Colour Supplement choices. The page pal applet is innocent... David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 10 13:55:31 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52618 for opro ; Wed, 10 Dec 97 13:55:30 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881746889:06:22061:27; Wed, 10 Dec 97 09:41:29 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0621129; 10 Dec 97 9:40 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ac1002406; 10 Dec 97 9:39 GMT From: Julian Meekings Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:36:08 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971210.093608.25@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:16:39 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, David Pilling wrote: > From: "D.A.Symes" > >I was under the impression (sorry) that Ov Pro used the universal > >clipboard, but it doesn't seem to. > > > No support for the universal clipboard. The usual argument is around > whether it is worthwhile. I think that it is a very worthwhile thing, it is one of the only things on the wintel platform that I really wish we had on our platform, veeerry useful. Julian ******************************************************* ***************** Julian Meekings ****************** * jkhm100@york.ac.uk * ************************ To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 10 13:55:35 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52620 for opro ; Wed, 10 Dec 97 13:55:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881746903:05:16257:34; Wed, 10 Dec 97 09:41:43 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab0621412; 10 Dec 97 9:40 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ad1002406; 10 Dec 97 9:39 GMT From: David Pilling Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:36:28 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971210.093628.15@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 97 01:22:58 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c News ---- Two new things on the www.beebug.com web site. First an alternative set of templates for the main program and colour supplement. Second, a new applet. This one generates UK Post Office bar codes. So you type in the post code and delivery point, and it generates the bar code in your document. The applet will also decode bar codes. In combination with the new mail merge features in 2.48 this applet will allow completely automatic bar coding of addresses. Incidentally a known problem is that the current versions of OPro can't display fonts in icons in applets windows. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 10 13:55:41 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52622 for opro ; Wed, 10 Dec 97 13:55:40 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881746904:05:16314:29; Wed, 10 Dec 97 09:41:44 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab0621593; 10 Dec 97 9:40 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ah1002406; 10 Dec 97 9:40 GMT From: Alf Chamings Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:35:24 +0000 Organization: Subject: OvPro has died. Help To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971210.093524.38@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:07:27 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Greetings all I have no idea what has caused this. All of a sudden, every time I try to load OvPro, the computer seizes solid. A double click on the application icon or on a document icon appears to be loading the application in that the user name, serial no. window appears. Then an error window comes up reading: 'Application may have gone wrong. Click Continue to try to resume or Quit to stop App.' When I click on Quit, another message appears: 'Internal Error, no stack for trap handler: Internal Error: branch through zero at &03813AE8, pc=00000000: register at 00115238.' After this the only response from the computer is from the reset button. No other application appears to be behaving in this way and I don't have much idea what caused it because it is a few days since I have used OvPro. I have tried re-installing to no avail. (RiscPC SA 22MB) Any suggestions? Alf -- mailto:AlfChamings@ed.ac.uk Health and Safety for the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 http://www.med.ed.ac.uk/hew/ for occupational and environmental health To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 10 13:55:46 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52624 for opro ; Wed, 10 Dec 97 13:55:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881746986:06:22900:25; Wed, 10 Dec 97 09:43:06 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0622086; 10 Dec 97 9:42 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ai1002406; 10 Dec 97 9:40 GMT From: Adam Evans Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:35:46 +0000 Organization: Subject: Printing to Networked Callligraph Printer To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971210.093546.44@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 16:56:29 +0100 (BST) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c We have had fun and games with OvationPro and printing (Calligraph Network P) It almost always refuses to print out any of the graphics in a document, this is mainly JPEG's. The sprites tend to be a black splurge!! Has anybody got any ideas as to how to make it print correctly??? Secondly, Beebug - Give AU & AW a copy of OvationPro, I created an advert, sent it to them, and they couldn't accept it, as they haven't got a copy of OvationPro!!! Back to impression I went. What I think is taking the mickey is that beebug's ad is created in Quark!!! Cheers, Adam Evans -- Webmaster and Sales Assistant CJE, 78 Brighton Road, Worthing, mailto:adam@cje.co.uk West Sussex, BN11 2EN, England http://www.cje.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0)1903 523666 Fax: +44 (0)1903 523679 * * * * Any views expressed by me are not necessarily those of CJE * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 11 13:37:40 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52735 for opro ; Thu, 11 Dec 97 13:37:39 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881836462:05:29411:85; Thu, 11 Dec 97 10:34:22 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0619361; 11 Dec 97 10:34 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ad1012344; 11 Dec 97 10:33 GMT From: Ray Dawson Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:21:43 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971211.102143.72@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:35:07 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c David Pilling wrote: > No support for the universal clipboard. The usual argument is around > whether it is worthwhile. If it were fairly easy to implement, then it would certainly be very useful as I have several other apps which support it (including Publisher and Voyager) Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 11 13:37:44 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52737 for opro ; Thu, 11 Dec 97 13:37:43 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881836497:12:01527:78; Thu, 11 Dec 97 10:34:57 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab0619361; 11 Dec 97 10:34 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id af1012344; 11 Dec 97 10:34 GMT From: PWaud Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:21:01 +0000 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Printing to Networked Callligraph Printer To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971211.102101.44@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:32:23 EST X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c I was one of the first people to buy a Calligraph A4 1200 printer, shell= ing=0Aout over =A31000 for the privelage.=0A=0AThe software that came wit= h the printer was a bit buggy, I suppose thats a=0Arisk that you take wh= en your a pioneer purchaser. I did think it was a bit=0Amuch that I had= to buy a new controller card after just over a year and when=0Athe optic= al unit went up the spout after about two years, I thought that=0Aanothe= r bill for =A3600 was just over the top!=0A=0AIve now got a HP 6L and it = works fine (using a turbo driver). Some of the=0Abugs in the driver sof= tware for the Calligraph were never sorted and Ive a few=0Amates who use = them on a network who have no end of trouble.=0A=0ASo my answer to the Ca= lligraph problem? Buy a new printer!!=0A=0APhilip Waud =0A To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 11 13:37:50 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52739 for opro ; Thu, 11 Dec 97 13:37:48 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881836517:05:29735:78; Thu, 11 Dec 97 10:35:17 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0619784; 11 Dec 97 10:35 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id aj1012344; 11 Dec 97 10:34 GMT From: Ray Dawson Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:21:21 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: OvPro has died. Help To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971211.102121.77@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:29:44 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Alf Chamings wrote: > No other application appears to be behaving in this way and I > don't have much idea what caused it because it is a few days since > I have used OvPro. I have tried re-installing to no avail. > (RiscPC SA 22MB) Have you tried commenting out any other applications/modules that load as part of your boot sequence? Do you have the ROMPatch 370/2 installed in Predesk - you should do. Try booting up with Ctrl-Shift held down and release Ctrl a line at a time so that you can see any error messages that may be occurring at boot up. One last thought, temporarily remove your Applets directory from inside OPro in case it is one of them causing the hang up. Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 11 13:37:54 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52741 for opro ; Thu, 11 Dec 97 13:37:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881836537:05:29798:32; Thu, 11 Dec 97 10:35:37 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab0619797; 11 Dec 97 10:35 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ak1012344; 11 Dec 97 10:34 GMT From: Xavier deMonneron Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:22:29 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971211.102229.67@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:29:55 +0100 (MET) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Julian Meekings wrote: > On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, David Pilling wrote: >=20 > > From: "D.A.Symes" > > >I was under the impression (sorry) that Ov Pro used the universal > > >clipboard, but it doesn't seem to. > >=20 > >=20 > > No support for the universal clipboard. The usual argument is around > > whether it is worthwhile. >=20 > I think that it is a very worthwhile thing, it is one of the only things > on the wintel platform that I really wish we had on our platform, veeerry > useful. >=20 I totally agree on that point. Universal clipboard was one of the best point on the Mac ; it does exist now on Win#$=A3=A4=B5# ; why not on our Ac= orn ? IT IS WORTHWILE !!! --=20 Xavier de Monneron, alias AsteRISC, member of ARMada and CPV Acorn RiscPC 600 24 MO/2 GO, SCSI2, 17", CDx4, 486sx33, RiscOS 3.5=20 Xavier.deMonneron@dassault-elec.fr -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 11 13:38:00 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52743 for opro ; Thu, 11 Dec 97 13:37:58 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881836574:12:01856:78; Thu, 11 Dec 97 10:36:14 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0619784; 11 Dec 97 10:36 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id an1012344; 11 Dec 97 10:35 GMT From: "adams_n@marconi-instruments.co.uk" Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:20:36 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re[2]: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971211.102036.59@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 97 10:28:02 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Now that is what I call handy! A barcode generator applet - well done David! _ Nigel J.E.Adams |_| British Bus Preservation Group - \ | Preserving the past for the present and future..... \ | A bus \ | stop! \ | \ | \| ____________________________________________________________\____________ Subject: Re: Various Author: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk at mismtpgw1 Date: 10/12/97 10:11 AM News ---- Two new things on the www.beebug.com web site. First an alternative set of templates for the main program and colour supplement. Second, a new applet. This one generates UK Post Office bar codes. So you type in the post code and delivery point, and it generates the bar code in your document. The applet will also decode bar codes. In combination with the new mail merge features in 2.48 this applet will allow completely automatic bar coding of addresses. Incidentally a known problem is that the current versions of OPro can't display fonts in icons in applets windows. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 11 13:38:06 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52745 for opro ; Thu, 11 Dec 97 13:38:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881836579:12:01842:98; Thu, 11 Dec 97 10:36:19 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0620251; 11 Dec 97 10:36 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ao1012344; 11 Dec 97 10:35 GMT From: David Pilling Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:22:05 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971211.102205.77@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 97 14:50:39 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c From: Julian Meekings >> No support for the universal clipboard. The usual argument is around >I think that it is a very worthwhile thing, it is one of the only things >on the wintel platform that I really wish we had on our platform, veeerry >useful. Yes, especially if it worked with Edit and Draw. From: Alf Chamings >A double click on the application icon or on a document icon appears to be >loading the application in that the user name, serial no. window appears. >Internal Error: branch through zero at &03813AE8, pc=00000000: register at >00115238.' After this the only response from the computer is from the reset >button. As ever the question is what changed? Possibilities include new software that has changed files in !System etc. perhaps those only used by OPro. Or that you've changed OPro by adding some files. I wonder if you reinstalled over the top of the previous copy? Probably not a good idea. I think I'd probably be inclined to shift drag everything out of the applets directory, just to simplify matters. From: Adam Evans >We have had fun and games with OvationPro and printing (Calligraph Network P) >It almost always refuses to print out any of the graphics in a document, this >is mainly JPEG's. The sprites tend to be a black splurge!! Over to the Caligraph users... I am not aware that OPro is doing anything wrong. >Secondly, Beebug - Give AU & AW a copy of OvationPro, I created an advert, >sent it to them, and they couldn't accept it, as they haven't got a copy of >OvationPro!!! Back to impression I went. What I think is taking the mickey is >that beebug's ad is created in Quark!!! The defensive reply is that it is open to those magazines to ask for free copies. The problem is that we give away copies, and they get passed on to friends etc. those who need them don't get them. Inertia comes into it, some people aren't that keen to change. But a matter for Ian to sort out... And Beebug, use Quark for RISC User, then try to sell the subscribers to RU under spec'd overpriced PC's, whats the message there? David Pilling To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 12 13:57:49 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52848 for opro ; Fri, 12 Dec 97 13:57:48 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881925157:12:06908:80; Fri, 12 Dec 97 11:12:37 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0617987; 12 Dec 97 11:12 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ab1029139; 12 Dec 97 11:11 GMT From: Malcolm Knight Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:07:20 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971212.110720.94@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:41:47 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Thu 11 Dec, David Pilling wrote: > And Beebug, use Quark for RISC User, then try to sell the subscribers to RU > under spec'd overpriced PC's, whats the message there? Absolutely right David. I was so peeeed off with the copious PC adverts in the latest RU that I decided there and then that when my sub expires next month they can take a jump.... I suppose I can be accused of sticking one more little nail in Acorn's coffin but not half as many as Beebug do. I wouldn't mind if the Acorns got equal billing but the pro-PC bias was disgraceful coming from the Beeb Users' Group. -- Malcolm Knight To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 12 13:57:51 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52849 for opro ; Fri, 12 Dec 97 13:57:50 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881925158:05:06009:78; Fri, 12 Dec 97 11:12:38 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0618090; 12 Dec 97 11:12 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ac1029139; 12 Dec 97 11:11 GMT From: David Pilling Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:08:24 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971212.110824.11@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 22:17:33 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c From: D.A.Symes (private email) >Installed the POBar applet and font... >I think I need some more help please. >I know my postcode is BH7 6JT, but how on earth would I know the >International prefix or delivery point.... whatever they are. The 'international prefix' is currently not used. So leave that blank. The delivery point is a problem. You can find yours by decoding the bar code on something that is posted to you (junk mail). Or you can buy the PO CD ROM which has them for all addresses in the UK. Practically you might enter 1A because at the level delivery points apply at, they're not used, postmen don't read bar codes. The delivery point separates addresses which have identical post codes and consists of a number and a letter. David Pilling To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 12 13:57:59 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52851 for opro ; Fri, 12 Dec 97 13:57:57 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881925196:05:06301:78; Fri, 12 Dec 97 11:13:16 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab0618357; 12 Dec 97 11:12 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id af1029139; 12 Dec 97 11:12 GMT From: Steven Pampling Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:08:44 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Keep together To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971212.110844.99@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 23:53:45 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Samuel Penn wrote: > Okay then, I've just bought Ovation Pro having been > using Impression for countless years, so naturally > I'm trying to do in Ovation what I'd do in Impression. > AFAICT, there isn't a 'keep together' option for styles. > Is this true? If not, is there another way of getting the > same effect? Not officially, however if you have a look at a saved DDL file you'll find entries for keeplines, keeppara, and keepnext. David Pilling has only partially written the support for this (at least in v2.46) Create a Style identical to the boytext style and then edit it using Edit, Zap or similar. Exaxctly what to enter as the numeric values is guesswork... HTH * SteveP -- steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk or camra@argonet.co.uk for CAMRA items ZFC A * "Cracking Toast Grommit" - Wallace * * "Cracking Real Ale Grommit" - Wallace's brother * To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 12 13:58:05 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52853 for opro ; Fri, 12 Dec 97 13:58:03 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881925219:12:07402:78; Fri, 12 Dec 97 11:13:39 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0618451; 12 Dec 97 11:13 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ah1029139; 12 Dec 97 11:12 GMT From: Graham Allan Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:08:02 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971212.110802.62@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:17:27 -0600 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c >From David Pilling > >From: Alf Chamings > >>A double click on the application icon or on a document icon appears to be >>loading the application in that the user name, serial no. window appears. >>Internal Error: branch through zero at &03813AE8, pc=00000000: register at >>00115238.' After this the only response from the computer is from the reset >>button. > >As ever the question is what changed? Possibilities include new software >that has changed files in !System etc. perhaps those only used by OPro. >Or that you've changed OPro by adding some files. I wonder if you reinstalled >over the top of the previous copy? Probably not a good idea. >I think I'd probably be inclined to shift drag everything out of the applets >directory, just to simplify matters. I was getting a type-5 error when trying to start OvPro, the other day. Moving all the applets out of the way didn't help matters. Eventually what I tried was, restart the computer - as soon as the desktop appears, hold down SHIFT, which prevents any desktop apps from starting up. In this state, OvPro would start and run ok. Then, after running successfully once, it seemed to run ok subsequently after normal restarts. Strange world. Mainly I tried this following some earlier questions about problems with OvPro and Navaho running together. They seem to be both working ok now though. Graham To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 12 13:58:16 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52855 for opro ; Fri, 12 Dec 97 13:58:10 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 881925252:06:19130:29; Fri, 12 Dec 97 11:14:12 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0618357; 12 Dec 97 11:13 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id aj1029139; 12 Dec 97 11:13 GMT From: Richard Hallas Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:06:32 +0000 Organization: KeyNote Music Typesetting Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971212.110632.75@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:17:48 +0000 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c In message <19971211.102205.77@risc.demon.co.uk> David Pilling wrote: > From: Adam Evans > > > We have had fun and games with OvationPro and printing (Calligraph > > Network P) It almost always refuses to print out any of the > > graphics in a document, this is mainly JPEG's. The sprites tend to > > be a black splurge!! > > Over to the Caligraph users... I am not aware that OPro is doing > anything wrong. My A3-1200 is fine, and I'm generally extremely happy with it. However, it does appear that the Calligraph driver has problems with deep-colour sprites; they just don't appear. On the very rare occasions that I want to print one, I tend to convert it to 256 colours first, and then they're fine. (To be fair, I'm using quite an old version of the printer driver.) > And Beebug, use Quark for RISC User, then try to sell the > subscribers to RU under spec'd overpriced PC's, whats the message > there? Hang about, David, that's hardly fair. 1. Yes, RISC User uses Quark for its production. This is for traditional reasons: it would be unrealistically expensive to move over to producing the magazine on Acorn systems. Sarah is familiar with using Macs, and all the layouts are in Quark format. New machines would have to be bought, and the existing expensive Macs scrapped. We have neither the time nor the resources to do anything about this right now. When I took over as Editor, I had high hopes of being able to move the magazine over to production entirely on Ovation Pro, but realistically it isn't going to happen. It's not that we don't /want/ to, or that we don't have faith in your outstanding program. It's simply a matter of time, resources and money. We can't justify it. Given the present difficulties of the Acorn market, wasting money on moving over to production exclusively on Acorn systems for no good reason other than the look of the thing would be an ideal way of going bust, which /would/ be rather shooting ourselves in the foot, I feel. Anyway, I hasten to add that all the articles are prepared on the RISC OS side of my Risc PC. Only the page layout is done on the Mac. 2. What you say implies that RISC User is trying to flog crap PCs to its readers. That's untrue and unfair. We have very little PC coverage, being devoted entirely to Acorns, and I have no desire to cause our readers to buy PCs. (They'd then stop buying the magazine, for one thing!) Beebug does sometimes include a mailshot about its PCs with RISC User, but it's nothing to do with me, and it bears no relation whatsoever to the magazine. The RISC User mail-outs simply provide Beebug with a useful means of sending some advertising to people without having to pay for a separate mail-shot. 3. "The message" is presumably that Beebug is trying to stay alive in a tiny market; trying to get more money to continue to finance Ovation Pro and RISC User. -- Richard -=-=-=- Richard G. Hallas * Author of "Charges" * Editor of RISC User magazine Proprietor of KeyNote: Music Typesetting & General Desktop Publishing E-mail: Richard@hallas.demon.co.uk * Telephone/Facsimile: 01484 460280 To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 15 21:37:00 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52959 for opro ; Mon, 15 Dec 97 21:36:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 882177550:05:11744:78; Mon, 15 Dec 97 09:19:10 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab0604917; 15 Dec 97 9:18 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ae1019023; 15 Dec 97 9:17 GMT From: Peter Blenkinsop Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:11:29 +0000 Organization: Subject: Linked frames To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971215.091129.97@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:58:29 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c Is it possible to link frames so that when I insert a new page the last frame in the previous page is linked to the first frame in the new page? -- This is my signature using Pluto Contained in the last character of this line is the secret of the universe. Rats!! I've run out of space for the last character. Peter Blenkinsop To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 15 21:37:05 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52961 for opro ; Mon, 15 Dec 97 21:37:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 882177569:12:10716:27; Mon, 15 Dec 97 09:19:29 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0604977; 15 Dec 97 9:18 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id af1019023; 15 Dec 97 9:18 GMT From: Dr A G Gray Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:11:49 +0000 Organization: Subject: Non-effects with ligatures To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971215.091149.43@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 97 11:37:06 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c I've just noticed: An italicised word - eg. fifth - ends up with non-italicised fi-ligature when 'Add ligatures' is selected. This only happens if the ligature is at the start of the word. Just a little bug... -- Alan.Gray@argonet.co.uk Dr A.G.Gray. Great Warley, Essex. UK http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/alan.gray N 51 33'58" E 00 17'35" G3XQU (DXCC=323/328) Acorn RiscPC S/A 202MHz To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 15 21:37:10 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52963 for opro ; Mon, 15 Dec 97 21:37:08 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 882177588:05:12036:27; Mon, 15 Dec 97 09:19:48 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab0604977; 15 Dec 97 9:19 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id am1019023; 15 Dec 97 9:18 GMT From: Steve Ellacott Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:09:21 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Printing to Networked Callligraph Printer To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971215.090921.85@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:01:59 +0000 (GMT) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c On Wed 10 Dec, Adam Evans wrote: > > We have had fun and games with OvationPro and printing (Calligraph Network P) > > It almost always refuses to print out any of the graphics in a document, this > is mainly JPEG's. The sprites tend to be a black splurge!! > > Has anybody got any ideas as to how to make it print correctly??? > I also have this problem with my Calligraph (not networked). The solution is to use ChangeFSI to convert your sprites to monochrome before importing them into your document. As reported extensively here and elsewhere, the Calligraph software is dreadfully buggy. But *when* it works, it works very well. I don't know any other printer driver that allows such control over screening of images. -- Steve Ellacott, School of Computing and Mathematical Sciences, University of Brighton, Moulsecoomb, BN2 4GJ, UK Tel: Home (01273) 885845 Office: (01273) 642544 or 642414 Fax: Home (01273) 270183 Office: (01273) 642405 WWW: http://www.it.brighton.ac.uk/staff/swe To unsubscribe send a message to: maillist@risc.demon.co.uk with the Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l To subscribe the Subject line should be: SIGNON ovationp-l From maillist@risc.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 15 21:37:19 1997 Received: from relay-5.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA52965 for opro ; Mon, 15 Dec 97 21:37:13 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 882177599:05:12059:48; Mon, 15 Dec 97 09:19:59 GMT Received: from post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.154]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0604917; 15 Dec 97 9:19 GMT Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by post.mail.demon.net id ac1019023; 15 Dec 97 9:19 GMT From: David Pilling Sender: imac@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:11:08 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Various To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19971215.091108.73@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 19:07:24 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Apparently-From: X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59c From: Graham Allan >I was getting a type-5 error when trying to start OvPro, the other day. >Eventually what I tried was, restart the computer - as soon as the >desktop appears, hold down SHIFT, which prevents any desktop apps from It's a deep area, so many other things that might clash. I suppose one point is that something can crash, damage RISC OS, and nothing short of a powercycle will get things back to rights. The various resets don't always reset things. Exciting News ------------- Like to download OPro 2.48? Then fill in this que