From root@risc.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 3 13:53:58 1996 Received: from punt4.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA23933 for david ; Tue, 03 Sep 96 13:53:55 GMT Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for david@pilling.demon.co.uk id 841736841:07059:0; Tue, 03 Sep 96 08:47:21 BST Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa06633; 3 Sep 96 8:46 BST Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id ab08406; 3 Sep 96 8:45 BST From: George Foot Sender: root@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 12:28:58 +0100 Organization: Subject: Test Message To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19960902.122858.91@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:45:55 +0100 (BST) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS I have now received the Ovation Mailing List with my Test Message. seems to be working OK. George -- George Foot georgefoot@oxted.demon.co.uk http://www.cybervillage.co.uk/personal/gfoot/ From root@risc.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 3 13:54:04 1996 Received: from punt4.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA23934 for david ; Tue, 03 Sep 96 13:54:01 GMT Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for david@pilling.demon.co.uk id 841736909:07595:0; Tue, 03 Sep 96 08:48:29 BST Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa07094; 3 Sep 96 8:47 BST Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id af08406; 3 Sep 96 8:46 BST From: Ian MacDougall Sender: root@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 08:47:25 +0100 Organization: Beebug Ltd Subject: Opening soon To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19960903.084725.59@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 08:34:10 +0100 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS Status: R Right things seem to be working OK. Can you all post either to the list or to me directly that you have successfully sent and received articles to the mailing list. Once I receive this confirmation I will announce the list. One thing to note, the turn around time for articles you post is dependent on the time you send the article and whether or not I am around to run the mailing list software. I generally go online for mail once a day so if you post after I go online I will not see the article 'til the next day, I will then run the mailing list software, but the messages will not get sent 'til the next day and then there will be the normal delay as the mail is delivered. Articles posted over the weekend will not be processed. When I am away on planned leave I will arrange for someone else to run the software, if I am ill it is likely that the articles posted will not be processed more than twice a week. Basically the message is be patient: if you don't see your message echoed back to you immediately sending more messages will only confuse the situation. If you have any doubts about your message being propagated to the list mail me directly rather than posting your concerns to the list. I guess I should repeat the above once we have a few more subscribers. -- Ian MacDougall From root@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 5 14:09:49 1996 Received: from punt4.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA24075 for david ; Thu, 05 Sep 96 14:09:46 GMT Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for david@pilling.demon.co.uk id 841908275:04645:1; Thu, 05 Sep 96 08:24:35 BST Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa04602; 5 Sep 96 8:24 BST Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa22746; 5 Sep 96 8:23 BST From: George Foot Sender: root@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 08:44:15 +0100 Organization: Subject: Re: Opening soon To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19960904.084415.94@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 09:59:51 +0100 (BST) X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS Status: R On Tue 03 Sep, Ian MacDougall wrote: > > > One thing to note, the turn around time for articles you post > is dependent on the time you send the article and whether or > not I am around to run the mailing list software. Does this mean that the Mailing List is moderated ? That is to say that only things which Beebug approves will get published. --------------------------------------------- I can confirm that my test postings to the Mailing List have been successful. Regards George -- George Foot georgefoot@oxted.demon.co.uk http://www.cybervillage.co.uk/personal/gfoot/ From root@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 5 14:09:58 1996 Received: from punt4.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA24077 for david ; Thu, 05 Sep 96 14:09:54 GMT Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for david@pilling.demon.co.uk id 841908275:04652:1; Thu, 05 Sep 96 08:24:35 BST Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa04611; 5 Sep 96 8:24 BST Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id ae22746; 5 Sep 96 8:24 BST From: David Pilling Sender: root@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 08:44:23 +0100 Organization: Subject: Re: Opening soon To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19960904.084423.90@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 14:24:10 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Yes - I've posted to and received from the list. I guess you set up a 'charter' file somewhere, and put in that all about the list, e.g. how often it's going to get updated etc. Not sure if new subscribers get that automatically or not. Also what the list is for, and what the managements policy on those who stray off topic is. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From root@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 5 14:10:08 1996 Received: from punt4.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA24078 for david ; Thu, 05 Sep 96 14:10:00 GMT Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for david@pilling.demon.co.uk id 841909008:09821:0; Thu, 05 Sep 96 08:36:48 BST Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa09381; 5 Sep 96 8:35 BST Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id ab25132; 5 Sep 96 8:34 BST From: John Ferguson Sender: root@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 08:44:30 +0100 Organization: Subject: Confirmation To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19960904.084430.69@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 20:36:13 +0100 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS On Tue, 03 Sep 1996, Ian MacDougall wrote: > Right things seem to be working OK. Can you all post either > to the list or to me directly that you have successfully sent > and received articles to the mailing list. Once I receive this > confirmation I will announce the list. I have successfully sent to and received articles from the mailing list. -- John Ferguson Taunton, Somerset, England mailto:john@fergusn.demon.co.uk From root@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 5 14:10:19 1996 Received: from punt4.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA24081 for david ; Thu, 05 Sep 96 14:10:11 GMT Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for david@pilling.demon.co.uk id 841909010:09817:1; Thu, 05 Sep 96 08:36:50 BST Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa09714; 5 Sep 96 8:36 BST Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa25132; 5 Sep 96 8:35 BST From: Ian MacDougall Sender: root@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:04:17 +0100 Organization: Beebug Ltd Subject: Re: Opening soon To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19960904.090417.31@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 08:48:14 +0100 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS In message <19960904.084423.90@risc.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 > > Yes - I've posted to and received from the list. Splendid. > I guess you set up a 'charter' file somewhere, and put in that all > about the list, e.g. how often it's going to get updated etc. > Not sure if new subscribers get that automatically or not. Yes, that all sounds good. I think you should have got a short statement as to the intent of the list when you subscribed. This was just something I threw together so I'll look at it with a view to making it the charter for the list. > Also what the list is for, and what the managements policy on those > who stray off topic is. I hadn't really thought about people abusing the list, I guess we should reserve the right to remove anyone who misbehaves from the list. I would think that what would define misbehaviour will evolve over time. Posting of binaries and grossly off-topic articles would seem a good starting point. -- Ian MacDougall From root@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 5 14:10:31 1996 Received: from punt4.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA24083 for david ; Thu, 05 Sep 96 14:10:22 GMT Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for david@pilling.demon.co.uk id 841909080:10375:1; Thu, 05 Sep 96 08:38:00 BST Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa10140; 5 Sep 96 8:37 BST Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa25132; 5 Sep 96 8:36 BST From: Ian MacDougall Sender: root@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:20:48 +0100 Organization: Beebug Ltd Subject: Re: Opening soon To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19960904.092048.88@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 08:59:56 +0100 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS Status: R In message <19960904.084415.94@risc.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > On Tue 03 Sep, Ian MacDougall wrote: > > > > > > One thing to note, the turn around time for articles you post > > is dependent on the time you send the article and whether or > > not I am around to run the mailing list software. > > Does this mean that the Mailing List is moderated ? > > That is to say that only things which Beebug approves will get > published. No, it means that the time between you posting an article and you seeing it on the list is entirely related to whether or not I am around to run the mailing list software. If I am not around for several days and no one else runs the software you will not see your posting. There is no implication of moderation or, as you seem to suggest, censorship, I was just trying to point out how things worked prompted by your own concerns about the length of time it took for you to see your original test post. I can only answer your concern about censorship by saying I hadn't really thought it would be necessary so I had not considered it. I do control the list: I could deny someone access to the list or stop their articles being propagated, but everyone has recourse to public forums to voice their concerns so it would seem rather pointless. The only exception I can think of would be where someone was posting binary files to the list. It would be impractical to allow this to continue. -- Ian MacDougall From root@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 6 13:40:43 1996 Received: from punt4.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA24138 for david ; Fri, 06 Sep 96 13:40:39 GMT Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for david@pilling.demon.co.uk id 842010535:09702:0; Fri, 06 Sep 96 12:48:55 BST Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa09293; 6 Sep 96 12:47 BST Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id ac13543; 6 Sep 96 12:46 BST From: David Pilling Sender: root@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 10:32:12 +0100 Organization: Subject: Re: Opening soon To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19960906.103212.21@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 14:38:18 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 I think when you do subscribe to the list, you get an auto generated message, saying welcome and how to get off it. That would be another place to put the standard terms and conditions. As to censorship. The practicality I guess is that it's too big a hassle to read the incoming mail before it goes out again, so there won't be any. It seems these days one mans right to freedom of speech is another mans right to a high signal to noise ratio. Anyway lets see what happens. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From root@risc.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 26 13:52:05 1996 Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA25080 for david ; Thu, 26 Sep 96 13:51:47 GMT Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for david@pilling.demon.co.uk id 843723026:05299:0; Thu, 26 Sep 96 08:30:26 BST Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa04811; 26 Sep 96 8:29 BST Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id ad29512; 26 Sep 96 8:29 BST From: Ray Dawson Sender: root@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:51:02 +0100 Organization: Subject: Altering master pages To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19960925.085102.22@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 10:06:56 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS Status: R I have produced several style sheets for business stationery such as letters, invoices etc. They have a master page with several frames on containing logo, address panel, date etc and the main text frame occupying two thirds of the page. Fine. The problem comes when I need a second page. The master page repeats, as it should, with all the frames. What I need is a full blank page with the text frame full page size. I can delete the address etc frames so that only the main text frame is present, but I can't alter it to make it larger without altering the frame on the first page. It won't allow me to make it a local frame. The alternative is to use a New Chapter and alter the master frames so that it only has the main text frame, but I can't then get the text to flow from the front page, which is a different chapter. So, I need to create a document with two different master pages, but with the text flowing between them How do I do it? Any help would be appreciated, Ray Dawson -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd From root@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 27 13:49:56 1996 Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA25146 for david ; Fri, 27 Sep 96 13:49:53 GMT Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for david@pilling.demon.co.uk id 843816995:28891:2; Fri, 27 Sep 96 10:36:35 BST Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa28777; 27 Sep 96 10:36 BST Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id ag19705; 27 Sep 96 10:35 BST From: David Pilling Sender: root@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:12:36 +0000 Organization: Subject: Re: Altering master pages To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19960927.091236.62@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 22:15:58 GMT X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS Status: R X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 >The problem comes when I need a second page. The master page repeats, as it >should, with all the frames. What I need is a full blank page with the text >frame full page size. I can delete the address etc frames so that only the >main text frame is present, but I can't alter it to make it larger without >altering the frame on the first page. It won't allow me to make it a local >frame. Firstly, consider the difference between a stylesheet, and a document with no text in the default master frames, and no local frames either. So the suggestion is. Instead of stylesheets, set up a document, with a full size default master frame. Close the master pages, then on the first document page, set up your logo, address panel etc. If the master frame is too big, then just overlay it with a frame to make it the right size. Save this document as your 'stylesheet'. When you load it, you'll get the blank frames, for filling in the address etc. When you enter text that flows, subsequent pages will be of the form of the master page - full size frame with no logo boxes etc. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. From root@risc.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 27 13:50:01 1996 Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA25147 for david ; Fri, 27 Sep 96 13:49:58 GMT Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for david@pilling.demon.co.uk id 843822156:21052:0; Fri, 27 Sep 96 12:02:36 BST Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa20386; 27 Sep 96 12:01 BST Received: from risc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.18.44]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id ab20369; 27 Sep 96 12:01 BST From: Ian MacDougall Sender: root@risc.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:55:24 +0000 Organization: Beebug Ltd Subject: Current status To: Subscribers to the mailing-list OVATIONP-L Reply-To: ovationp-l@risc.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <19960927.115524.82@risc.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk X-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:40:37 +0100 X-MailList: MailList v0.16 the mailing-list robot for RiscOS Hello all, This article is a bit of a test, but also contains some 'useful' information. It's a test because once we hit the 77 user mark the software I'm using to run the mailing list started to give errors because there were too many files in the directory used to store the outgoing mail. I've just installed X-Files (*eek*) to try and remedy this. Because of the problems I've had some of you may not have seen the last couple of postings, sorry about that. I have a copy of the first question (thank you Mr Dawson) and its answer (thank you Mr Pilling) so I'll post a summary of these if this works. If any of you have or will be getting StrongArm cards you will notice that Ovation Pro does not work. Essentially it is the protection scheme that fails to work under the new processor not the application itself. We have now been informed by ART that the last set of discs I sent them installed fine on their StrongArm machine (we have yet to receive any of our order so cannot confirm this). The fixed version will form the first upgrade that you will be receiving soon. We want to test the installation ourselves so this will be delayed until we receive a StrongArm card (hopefully next week). If anyone can suggest a better remedy than using X-files to solve the 77 file limit I'd like to know (email me directly). -- Ian MacDougall